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ubuntu_demon
December 23rd, 2004, 03:54 PM
hi,

Here's a nice article I found :

Getting Better All the Time
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,118953,00.asp



Our Free Software guru looks at new software for his Gnome desktop--some of which he can run, some of which he can't.


Let's hope a nice buring tool enters hoary.

EdCrypt
December 23rd, 2004, 04:25 PM
I liked The nautilus cd creator a lot, The idea is very very cool. I wana that, in the future, I can see some new features in that.
But Coaster looks good and maybe could fits my need to burn a simple audio cd soon. I hope that it receives some GNOME HIG Love if not already, and become part of GNOME 2.10.

EdCrypt
December 23rd, 2004, 04:27 PM
Hummm, and he talks about "painless wireless"... Here, with Ubuntu and Debian-br CDD it was really really really painless!!!
Well, I dont need to choose between any conection as he does, here it is much siimplier...

BWF89
December 23rd, 2004, 04:49 PM
Someone needs to port "Burn4Free" over to GNU/Linux. It's (in my opinoin) the best Windows cd burning tool out there. And it's a free download...

EdCrypt
December 23rd, 2004, 04:59 PM
2ª part: Dependence Hell
Ladslav, from distrowatch, wrote about a migration trend from mandrake to gentoo. Interresting to read about it.
About 'beagle, I don't want to use Mono as I don't want any KDE/QT. Ow, How I wish GNOME Storage not to be a just pre pre pre alfa....

ubuntu_demon
December 23rd, 2004, 05:13 PM
2ª part: Dependence Hell
Ladslav, from distrowatch, wrote about a migration trend from mandrake to gentoo. Interresting to read about it.
About 'beagle, I don't want to use Mono as I don't want any KDE/QT. Ow, How I wish GNOME Storage not to be a just pre pre pre alfa....
What do you have against mono ?

in this thread there's also a discusion about beagle and its alternatives :

Longhorn-like features that Ubuntu needs
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=7567

EdCrypt
December 23rd, 2004, 06:30 PM
What do you have against mono ?

Many things, for example, i don see me hacking in c# (well, maybe ironpython), some others patent related (http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono),
and there are dotGNU too, if you *really* need .Net...
Also, I think that .Net is a soluction. For a non-existent problem.
A friend wrote a nice article about it, but it's in portuguese: http://200.211.78.140/taq/mono.php



in this thread there's also a discusion about beagle and its alternatives :
Longhorn-like features that Ubuntu needs
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=7567
I know, i've participated in this thread.

ubuntu_demon
December 23rd, 2004, 08:48 PM
Many things, for example, i don see me hacking in c# (well, maybe ironpython), some others patent related (http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono),


I've read some about C# and seen a presentation about it. It seems a nice language when you need speed and safe code.

ironpython seems nice because they say it's fast and integrated with .net
(only looked at the website)
What do the guys at www.python.org think about it ? And what do our Ubuntu developers (that heavily use python) think about it ?

quote from seth's blog :



Since I'm not a lawyer, I don't know if these disclaimers are important. But given the nature of the topic, I'll play it safe and write one


So are there any open source-friendly lawyers who have looked into the subject ?



and there are dotGNU too, if you *really* need .Net...
Also, I think that .Net is a soluction. For a non-existent problem.


Didn't know about dotGNU. I'll read some on the website :

http://www.dotgnu.org

ubuntu_demon
December 23rd, 2004, 10:05 PM
I don't understand what's the benefit of dotGNU above mono.

I think they "suffer" from the same potential patent problem. quote from dotgnu website :



DotGNU Portable.NET is focused on compatibility with the ECMA-334 and ECMA-335 specifications for C# and CLI,


I'll do some more googling

ubuntu_demon
December 23rd, 2004, 10:27 PM
Free Software Group Not Well With Mono
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3361991

allright so dotGNU is bit more free ? Beagle will run on dotGNU also (at some moment).

jdodson
December 23rd, 2004, 11:10 PM
Free Software Group Not Well With Mono
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3361991

allright so dotGNU is bit more free ? Beagle will run on dotGNU also (at some moment).


c# is pretty much a copy of java which is a bad copy of c++. java is a fine language and everytime i see c# i get more used to the idea of using it, however wild horses couldnt drag me away from python.

i am coding up a game in python and pygtk and it owns all. i love python for its simplicity, elegance and ease of use.

if i wanted to do something else, there is always c, php or sql.

those are the only languages i use.

ubuntu_demon
December 23rd, 2004, 11:44 PM
c# is pretty much a copy of java which is a bad copy of c++. java is a fine language and everytime i see c# i get more used to the idea of using it, however wild horses couldnt drag me away from python.

i am coding up a game in python and pygtk and it owns all. i love python for its simplicity, elegance and ease of use.

if i wanted to do something else, there is always c, php or sql.

those are the only languages i use.
Java is nice but a bit slow with graphics and sometimes the garbage collector seems to work against you.

I think c# is faster than java and more safe than c. I think there are situations imaginable where C# would be great. From what I've read you can easily mix unsafe C code with safe C# code if you need a bit of performance at some point in your program. I've also read .NET is nice because it supports a lot of languages and you can integrate programming work in multiple languages easily in one "product" so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Now that I think of it. I have played a bit with C# too. (terrarium.net)

python rules but is a higher language than C# and therefor I think C# will be faster in cases where speed is important.(but you could let python use fast libraries)

disclaimer :
I'm not a .net/C# geek. I'm just pragmatic.(you should always pick the language that fits the task best) I like programming at a level as high as possible (speedwise).

EdCrypt
December 23rd, 2004, 11:45 PM
c# is pretty much a copy of java which is a bad copy of c++. java is a fine language and everytime i see c# i get more used to the idea of using it, however wild horses couldnt drag me away from python.

i am coding up a game in python and pygtk and it owns all. i love python for its simplicity, elegance and ease of use.

if i wanted to do something else, there is always c, php or sql.

those are the only languages i use.
Me Too :)
I think that Java has a bloated OO implementation, and python is much more flexible, dinamic and has a cleaner sintax.

EdCrypt
December 23rd, 2004, 11:48 PM
I don't understand what's the benefit of dotGNU above mono.

I think they "suffer" from the same potential patent problem. quote from dotgnu website :



I'll do some more googling
AHA, I find it!
Synopsis on what DotGNU Is
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7220

EdCrypt
December 24th, 2004, 12:03 AM
I've also read .NET is nice because it supports a lot of languages and you can integrate programming work in multiple languages easily in one "product" so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Now that I think of it. I have played a bit with C# too. (terrarium.net)

1 - Itś possible to run various languages on Jvm too.
2 - I don think it's really good to have code in multiple languages. I can't even imagine the mess. The programmers must "speach" the same language!
3 - It is possible to extend python with C/C++

ubuntu_demon
December 24th, 2004, 12:15 AM
AHA, I find it!
Synopsis on what DotGNU Is
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7220
nice article!
okay DotGNU seems "better" than mono. But beagle could run under DotGNU so no problem there.

ubuntu_demon
December 24th, 2004, 12:24 AM
1 - Itś possible to run various languages on Jvm too.


I like java.



2 - I don think it's really good to have code in multiple languages. I can't even imagine the mess. The programmers must "speach" the same language!


- already existing libraries can be easily used (saves time)
- the frontend of an application can be programmed in a different language than the backend (key features of languages can be exploited)
-they do some things with webservices and xml

I'm not saying I'm in love with .NET. But having mono/dotGNU is important and can make things easier (suppose MS office would be programmed in .NET it would be easier to run in Linux)



3 - It is possible to extend python with C/C++

python rocks

I agree python is nice for a lot of things. linux/gnome/ubuntu developers should choose python above other languages in a lot of cases

EdCrypt
December 24th, 2004, 12:39 AM
- already existing libraries can be easily used (saves time)
- the frontend of an application can be programmed in a different language than the backend (key features of languages can be exploited)
CORBA, GTK+ and qt are examples of things like that, without .net.


-they do some things with webservices and xml

Maybe Zope?


I'm not saying I'm in love with .NET. But having mono/dotGNU is important and can make things easier (suppose MS office would be programmed in .NET it would be easier to run in Linux)

If your example was "a free soft writen in linux being used in bsd" I could agree more... :)



python rocks

I agree python is nice for a lot of things. linux/gnome/ubuntu developers should choose python above other languages in a lot of cases
totally agree!!


This thread is going really OffTopic....

ubuntu_demon
December 24th, 2004, 12:50 AM
If your example was "a free soft writen in linux being used in bsd" I could agree more... :)


one of the biggest advantages of .net is that we can have more compatibility between windows and other OS'es like linux/bsd/OS X.



This thread is going really OffTopic....


You're right. Let's get back to the core. Anyone comments on the article ?

Do people have opinions about the future of gnome ?
Other relevant opinions/remarks/links ?

EdCrypt
December 24th, 2004, 02:45 AM
BTW, someone knows what is changing in gnome2.9??? Some Hoary user, some mailing list reader, someone...

EdCrypt
December 25th, 2004, 12:59 AM
BTW, someone knows what is changing in gnome2.9??? Some Hoary user, some mailing list reader, someone...
AHA!
GNOME 2.9.3 Development Release
http://www.gnome.org/start/2.9/
But...
"nautilus-cd-burner was updated without a NEWS entry"
:-( :-(

HiddenWolf
December 25th, 2004, 11:50 AM
I so want to see an OS suite that can blow Nero out of the water. :-)

ubuntu_demon
December 25th, 2004, 12:01 PM
I so want to see an OS suite that can blow Nero out of the water. :-)
same here

EdCrypt
December 25th, 2004, 03:37 PM
A little Xmas gift:
Graveman .deb packages! (compiled in actual Sarge)
http://otavio.no-ip.org:8080/~otavio/graveman/
Very nice and simple.
I've installed it in Debian-BR CDD, with GNOME2.6, maybe it works in Ubuntu too.