Double clicking is pointless anyway

[Mr. Picklesworth]

I have vowed never to discuss the use of Mono hereabouts again, but there is one topic of great importance that always pops up in those threads: Double clicking.

See, I just don't understand what purpose it serves. One of the first things I do whenever I install Ubuntu is go to the preferences for Nautilus, and under the Behaviour tab switch on "Single click to open items". (I also turn off browser mode, to rub more salt into the madness).

What particularly gets on my nerves is the only place double click is used is the file manager. It is used to carry out a secondary operation with some programs (like double click on a list is a shortcut to selecting and clicking the OK button), but in those cases one can go on without thinking about it.
With the file manager, double clicking is the only reasonably quick way to carry out the expected action. Isn't that dumb?

To make make matters worse, 'regular users' all have trouble figuring out when to and when not to double click. It is not unusual to see someone double clicking links in their web browser, checkboxes (yes, it has been witnessed) and things in menus. For them, double click is an arbitrary stupidity that makes computers unintuitive.

I think single click makes a lot more sense for learnability, accessibility and ergonomics. It cuts my mouse clicks in half and loses me nothing. If I double click a file by accident, nothing bad happens (Nautilus knows to ignore that). The only downside is selecting stuff, but I can just hold Ctrl to do that, right click a file instead, or use box select.

[LaRoza]

+1

[tuxxy]

I agree

[Northsider]

To make make matters worse, 'regular users' all have trouble figuring out when to and when not to double click. It is not unusual to see someone double clicking links in their web browser, checkboxes (yes, it has been witnessed) and things in menus. For them, double click is an arbitrary stupidity that makes computers unintuitive.
lol, that drives me nuts! However, for some reason I do like the double click.

[mellowd]

I've tried single click and it makes me crazy. I'm to used to single clicking to select, double clicking to action

[geoken]

I think the reason double click exists is because it was considered the best way to select objects. Say I wanted to select an object, then press a button on a toolbar to carry out some action. In single click you have to use a modifier to select, or use a prolonged hover (instant hover doesn't work for most because there mouse passes over other objects as it travels to the toolbar).

In general you have to choose between double clicking or arbitrary hover delays. I think most people prefer the former. It's the same reason Apple is slowly phasing the single button mouse, people want direct control over certain actions. An added degree of complexity via additional interface methods is usually preferred above arbitrary time delay based actions.

[nick09]

I'd rather not use a extra button just to select a item. Double clicking is what I like the most.

[klange]

Hm... You know what? I agree.
I'm going to go turn on single click in Nautilus just after reading this.

But any negative comments towards Mono will not be tolerated.

[happysmileman]

Single click rocks, I was just wondering yesterday why anyone decided to use double-click in the first place, any reason i can think of for selecting something can be achieved with right click. If you want to select more than one thing you have to box-drag or Ctrl+Click anyway (Except the way Dolphin in KDE4 does it, but even then it's quicker to just box-drag or Ctrl-click).

[geoken]

Single click rocks, I was just wondering yesterday why anyone decided to use double-click in the first place, any reason i can think of for selecting something can be achieved with right click. If you want to select more than one thing you have to box-drag or Ctrl+Click anyway (Except the way Dolphin in KDE4 does it, but even then it's quicker to just box-drag or Ctrl-click).

If right click = select, then how do you carry out the actions currently done by right clicking?

[LaRoza]

Another thing I like, is focus following the mouse.

[lswest]

If right click = select, then how do you carry out the actions currently done by right clicking?

I believe he means when you right-click one file, it selects it and gives you the options of what to do with it (e.g. copy, paste, open, etc.) and if you want to do multiple selects, use ctrl + click or box-drag.

[happysmileman]

If right click = select, then how do you carry out the actions currently done by right clicking?

Right click != select, I'm saying that when you have all that functionality available through right click, 99% of the time you don't need to select. The other 1% you can box-drag or Ctrl-click

[Sand & Mercury]

I'd rather not use a extra button just to select a item. Double clicking is what I like the most.
Same here

[klange]

Another thing I like, is focus following the mouse.
I find that it tends to disrupt some applications, but I did try it out for a short while.

My favorite alternate functionality will always be Alt+Click+Drag to move windows. I even use it on Windows!

[aaaantoine]

If right click = select, then how do you carry out the actions currently done by right clicking?

Agreed. I'm a double click person. Sure, it was confusing at first, but it's been ingrained into my motor function over the past 16 years. Any time I've used a single click interface always resulted in untold frustration.

[Bliepo32]

I am a double-click person, but that is just because I am used to double-clicking. I think single-clicking would be a lot easier for starting users. Problem is that, once you are used to something, it is very difficult to change.

[geoken]

Right click != select, I'm saying that when you have all that functionality available through right click, 99% of the time you don't need to select. The other 1% you can box-drag or Ctrl-click

I guess everyone uses there computer differently.

I think cramming a boatload of features into the right click menu is counter productive to good UI design. When I use inkscape, I want to select a shape, then modify it with panels which are custom tailored to that action. I don't want to traverse massive contextual menus because I don't think it's worth the trade-off (i consider the effort needed to double click to be indistinguishable from the effort needed to single click)

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Agreed. I'm a double click person. Sure, it was confusing at first, but it's been ingrained into my motor function over the past 16 years. Any time I've used a single click interface always resulted in untold frustration.

But every interface except your file browser is a single-click interface! In your favourite web browser, word processor or image editor, how are things selected? In my case (and I would bet yours) the answer is click and drag (box select). Double click sometimes carries out an operation, but often it is a matter of clicking on a particular target.
There are a few little exceptions where double click will open a context-sensitive options menu for some object, but it is rarely the 'normal' way to get there.

Maybe file managers should move away from trying to guess single programs to launch files with anyway, instead offering a context-sensitive list of Actions in the toolbar. For example, with an image file there is no telling whether someone wants to import it into F-Spot, view it really quickly or edit it in GIMP. That would solve the problem in a clean enough way by just dropping the fragile behaviour altogether...

As someone who is big on touch screen support right now, I am also not a fan of when right click does everything. However, touch screens also don't like double click at all. Really, try using Windows Explorer on an HP Touchsmart. I dare you!
Right click is a contextual shortcut menu for actions, and it should be designed with quickness in mind. GNOME treats it fine as is.


Little bonus trick with single-click mode in Nautilus: You can now bring the Drag & Drop threshold in Mouse Preferences to minimum :)

[happysmileman]

I guess everyone uses there computer differently.

I think cramming a boatload of features into the right click menu is counter productive to good UI design. When I use inkscape, I want to select a shape, then modify it with panels which are custom tailored to that action. I don't want to traverse massive contextual menus because I don't think it's worth the trade-off (i consider the effort needed to double click to be indistinguishable from the effort needed to single click)

Oh, well to be honest I never thought of apps like Inkscape, I was just thinking of file managers, for some applications double click does make more sense

[geoken]

But every interface except your file browser is a single-click interface! In your favourite web browser, word processor or image editor, how are things selected? In my case (and I would bet yours) the answer is click and drag (box select). Double click sometimes carries out an operation, but often it is a matter of clicking on a particular target.
There are a few little exceptions where double click will open a context-sensitive options menu for some object, but it is rarely the 'normal' way to get there.

Maybe file managers should move away from trying to guess single programs to launch files with anyway, instead offering a context-sensitive list of Actions in the toolbar. For example, with an image file there is no telling whether someone wants to import it into F-Spot, view it really quickly or edit it in GIMP. That would solve the problem in a clean enough way by just dropping the fragile behaviour altogether...


Most apps support double clicking. Firefox has double click to create a new tab and double click text to select the whole word. In inkscape, objects are selected by clicking on them and double clicking performs an action (ie. changing scale handles to skew/rotate handles). In evolution, clicking a message selects it and double clicking performs an action (open message window). In various music single clicking selects the song (populating a meta data panel or similar with it's details) and double clicking it plays the song.

I don't think I'd want to go through an 'open with' menu every time I access file. 95% of the mimetypes on my computer are only accessed with one app.

[Dragonbite]

Whenever I use KDE with single-click it takes a while for me to get used to NOT click once to select something before selecting others (like using Cntrl + click to select files in the window not next to each other)

[Icehuck]

I like double click for one simple reason. I have a habit of accidentally clicking things and if they were single click they would open up. Which honestly, gets very annoying.

As to the keyboard + click option, I don't use both hands all the time. I like to use my computer with my feet up and using one hand to navigate using the mouse. Using a ctrl-click or any other variant would in this case be much slower.

[SunnyRabbiera]

well when I first started I double clicked, but after I got used to single clicking I now hate double clicking

[JillSwift]

Lots of emotion attached to how one goes about using an interface. :shock:

[zmjjmz]

I'm too lazy to care.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Lots of emotion attached to how one goes about using an interface. :shock:

I just dont like having to do an extra click anymore, I hate working on the XP computers my friends have.

[karellen]

I like double click for one simple reason. I have a habit of accidentally clicking things and if they were single click they would open up. Which honestly, gets very annoying.

As to the keyboard + click option, I don't use both hands all the time. I like to use my computer with my feet up and using one hand to navigate using the mouse. Using a ctrl-click or any other variant would in this case be much slower.

same here ;)

[saulgoode]

I have vowed never to discuss the use of Mono hereabouts again, but there is one topic of great importance that always pops up in those threads: Double clicking.

The double-click patent issue is not only irrelevant to the Mono topic but has been misrepresented as being meaningful with regard to mouse usage -- it is not. The patent, ludicrous though it may be, concerns usage of the hardware buttons on a PDA (such as a Palm Pilot or Ipaq); it has nothing to do with computer mice.

As to the topic of this thread, I very much dislike double-clicking and find its presence to generally be detrimental in any user interface. It is particularly annoying on Windows machines where feedback that action is being taken often gets delayed (or is non-existent) and I am left wondering if my double-click was detected.

[bp1509]

d

[grossaffe]

this needs a poll to go with it: single v. double

[joninkrakow]

The concept is supposed to be simple. Objects that can be selected and manipulated (dragged, etc.) should be selected with one click. Buttons, which have a single function, and cannot be manipulated should require only one click. That's the concept. However, when Microsoft introduced the idea of a "file browser" the lines got blurred, and now, without persistent objects in a spacial relationship (an icon always appearing in the same place on your screen, treated as a file on your desk), this direct relationship has been lost. You may not like the idea of clicking once to select, but it _is_ logical, considering that you do not always want to simply open the file. I know that in my own computing, probably less than half the time do I want to simply open the file. I typically want to manipulate it in some way. Since it is an object, and not merely a button with one function, I don't want a single click to open the file automatically, thus forcing me to resort to extreme measures to prevent this as the default action. Files aren't buttons.... and a double-click is much faster and less of a fuss than right-clicking or control-clicking or any other method of manipulating. And if you are really smart ;-), you will learn to slow down your double-click speed to almost a second (fine-tuning it so you don't accidently double-click when you don't want to). I have mine set to 800 ms, and I'm quite comfortable with it. I am shocked at the default double-click speeds on Windows and Linux. It creates an atmosphere, where people are frantically trying to double-click when it ought to be more leisurely, and comfortable. Once you slow down your double-click threshold, it works much easier.

Now, if you _really_ want a single-click environment, dump Nautilus and sudo apt-get install rox-filer. That is a file browser built from the ground up as a single-click environment.

As to KDE, the first thing I do when I get into a new KDE environ is to disable the single-click open trick. :-)

-Jon

[dizee]

I agree, I always change the file browser to use single click and I also use focus follows mouse. There's not really any point to double-clicking for me, it just gets annoying.

[chris4585]

Single clicking is the only way... +1

[klange]

It occurred to me that double-clicking is the leading cause of destruction to my laptop touchpad buttons.

There's also my tablet. Pain in the *** to double click with that.

[Depressed Man]

Err.. I use double click just in case I accidently click something. It's irritating when I launch a program I don't want. Or in Firefox if I accidently click the X button on a tab when I'm not trying to. These annoyances usually happen when I'm doing things at a rapid pace though.

[Zeotronic]

While I also don't see the point, I double click anyways... I've always done it, so I see no reason to change it. Also, my mouse is kind of touche as of late, and it often double clicks instead of single clicking... better to have one accidental instance than two!

[spupy]

It occurred to me that double-clicking is the leading cause of destruction to my laptop touchpad buttons.

...and your hands. With single click you click 50% less - that adds up to something. I find many ways to relieve the stress from my hands, single click is one of them.
In before anyone says a click doesn't make any difference - yes, it does make. I once played some game where you clicked like mad to shoot zombies. I played for one day. For the next 3 days I couldn't hold things like a frying pan because of the pain...

[Polygon]

i hate single clicking. If i want to just highlight a file, and then it opens and i have to close the assoicated program because i didn't want it to open...blah blah.

I hate single clicking.

[LookTJ]

i hate single clicking. If i want to just highlight a file, and then it opens and i have to close the assoicated program because i didn't want it to open...blah blah.

I hate single clicking.+1

[cardinals_fan]

I never double click. I launch my apps with dmenu and do most of my file management with the command line.

[chris4585]

I don't understand why people have said when they try to select a file (with single click) they accidentally open a program. not to be rude but you can always click (hold down on the right mouse button) and highlight the file, or just right click on the file to select the file, that would bring up the operations menu for the file.. what else is there to do when you select a file? and this goes for most file managers, nautilus in most of my cases.

I understand if you accidentally open files all the time, maybe you're on a laptop? I always turn off touch pad clicking on my laptop...

[Mr. Picklesworth]

One thought that sprang to mind is I don't mind clicking twice when there is visual feedback. Really, that's all this needs is visual feedback. For example, a few people have mentioned how vector graphics tools often use double clicking in their interfaces. What they do, however, is they generally have many click targets on items once they are selected. For example, a click target to scale, another to open the object details, and another to move the object. The good ones expose all the necessary click actions as buttons, with clicks being secondary but the buttons being intuitively placed so that the alternative motion is not necessary.

I would not mind double clicking if we had a context-sensitive widget open up with file details, a preview, and some actions below it. In this case a second click on the file icon itself could trigger the last used action. That would make sense. It would be learnable, it would be intuitive, it would not spill over into other interfaces and one could still naturally use double click after he gets used to it, but with that simply translating to 'click and then click again' instead of some bizarre usability-killing time-based motion :)

[Trail]

I agree. I also use single-click.

The best single-click experience I had was with KDE3.5; Middle-click to select, right-click to execute. Faster than anything. Now I am using KDE4.1 so middle-click does not work (I hope they bring it back though), but dolphin's new selection thingy is a good addition for when my other hand is busy. Not the best, but good enough.

What I really hate is when /dev/random people use my PC; they double-triple click on videos opening fifty SMplayers, try to drag and drop things on the desktop from outside the FolderViews (and I cba to explain to them), hit the New Device Notifier widget thinking it's My Computer then wonder wtf is this, etc.

[red_Marvin]

I've always been double-clicking, but this thread has made me change, if only for comparision.

I feel that much of the criticism about how to manipulate files in single click mode possibly stem from some misunderstanding(s), so I'll chime in with my observations on the subject:

Selecting multiple files: Do it the same way as in single click mode, IE drag a box, ctrl-click on all files you want, or shift-click on the "endpoint" files.
Moving files etc, works as normal.

The cases that does not work as normal, are:
1) When you ctrl/shift-select files you have to use the key with the first file too, maybe a little confusing at the beginning, but certainly not more than the change from double to single clicking, and you were reaching for the keyboard anyway.

2) Selecting a single file. in a shift/ctrl select situation, see 1), for manipulate the file, just use the right click context menu.


...Or is it I that have misunderstood something?

[Saint Angeles]

i think i've just been used to double clicking from the mac classic days. also... when was it that windows introduced "single click to open"? windows 2000?

this thread has inspired me to leave my old ways and try single click. i'm liking it so far and finding that double click is totally not needed. selecting multiple files is the same as the old way and so is right click. so there really is no point to double click. thank you for opening my eyes!

[uberdonkey5]

I am also inspired to try the single click. However, I have reservations:

1. if you transfer to another computer (internet cafe or someone elses or a shared computer) it will be frustrating when you are used to single click

2. I hate to use the keyboard and the mouse (holding a key down) simultaneously. Why don't you just use the keyboard if this is necessary?

3. My touch pad on my laptop is sensetive enough. Indeed, even with the double click I sometimes open several versions of a package!

4. In windows, you can single click on the icon, then single click on the name to rename (i.e. a delay between the two clicks) (PS of course I'm a dual booter!)

5. the single click is useful to select things if you want to move them with the arrow keys (this is for drawing applications often). Thus single click as select makes sense generally.

So, I'll try single, just for a laugh...

[mips]

well when I first started I double clicked, but after I got used to single clicking I now hate double clicking

+1 Same here.

[Jordanwb]

To make make matters worse, 'regular users' all have trouble figuring out when to and when not to double click. It is not unusual to see someone double clicking links in their web browser, checkboxes (yes, it has been witnessed) and things in menus. For them, double click is an arbitrary stupidity that makes computers unintuitive.

My dad does that all the time. Double clicking is annoying to me because my mouse malfunctions and sometimes won't render a double click.

[Dragonbite]

well when I first started I double clicked, but after I got used to single clicking I now hate double clicking
True. It took a little while to get used to it and when I did it annoyed me when I returned to Windows. The only problem I had in KDE is when I'm selecting more than one app, I usually end up opening up the file(s) instead.

[Raffles10]

I used to always single click until I bought a computer with Vista installed on it, single click just didn't seem to work properly, so I went back to double clicking.

Now I have Ubuntu Linux Mint (http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php) I've gone back to single mode again.:)

[Depressed Man]

I don't understand why people have said when they try to select a file (with single click) they accidentally open a program. not to be rude but you can always click (hold down on the right mouse button) and highlight the file, or just right click on the file to select the file, that would bring up the operations menu for the file.. what else is there to do when you select a file? and this goes for most file managers, nautilus in most of my cases.

I understand if you accidentally open files all the time, maybe you're on a laptop? I always turn off touch pad clicking on my laptop...

I usually have my things in list view. So they tend to be small to fit more on screen. So if your in a hurry and clicking things you'll wind up clicking the wrong one.

And when I'm on my laptop I use the touch pad clicking (to avoid wearing out the click buttons). I don't always want to plug in my logitech mouse.

[FuturePilot]

Hm... You know what? I agree.
I'm going to go turn on single click in Nautilus just after reading this.

But any negative comments towards Mono will not be tolerated.

Hey me too! :lolflag:

[noremac]

I think the reason double click exists is because it was considered the best way to select objects. Say I wanted to select an object, then press a button on a toolbar to carry out some action. In single click you have to use a modifier to select, or use a prolonged hover (instant hover doesn't work for most because there mouse passes over other objects as it travels to the toolbar).

In general you have to choose between double clicking or arbitrary hover delays. I think most people prefer the former. It's the same reason Apple is slowly phasing the single button mouse, people want direct control over certain actions. An added degree of complexity via additional interface methods is usually preferred above arbitrary time delay based actions.

Bingo. Cause I just tried this for the first time when I read this thread. First time I went to select something to delete from my desktop, rather than just single clicking to select it, then hit the DEL key on the keyboard, it opened.

Of course, I have been using the single click option for only an hour, so I may still like it otherwise. We'll see.

[joninkrakow]

Bingo. Cause I just tried this for the first time when I read this thread. First time I went to select something to delete from my desktop, rather than just single clicking to select it, then hit the DEL key on the keyboard, it opened.

Of course, I have been using the single click option for only an hour, so I may still like it otherwise. We'll see.

Here's some food for thought. The whole single-click idea comes from Microsoft, when they decided to make file browsing act like the web. Until then, files were objects. Objects take one click to select, and then you act upon the object. Buttons (and links) which typically have only one purpose (to be pushed to cause an action) don't need double actions, so single-click works on them.... So, while someone may be a big fan of single-click, just remember, Microsoft made you that way. ;-)

And multi-click is pretty universal. Look in F-spot, for instance. You click on an image to select it, and then choose actions, either with buttons or from menus. Alternately, you can double-click to open it. Same in Gimp, Inkscape, or any application that deals with objects. You click once to select the object, and then act upon it. Frequently, a double-click will perform some default operation (double-click on a text field, and you can now edit the text, for instance). Since your file manager is dealing with files, the object-based interface tends to rule--except in Konqueror in KDE, because it, like Explorer, is based on an internet/hyperlink interface. Thus the kludges to work around the default "open on click" command.

I presume that those who prefer the single-click interface come from this "Explorer" background, and also tend to simply open files most of the time. Where as I tend to want to manipulate my files if I'm opening my file manager. Hence, single-click, besides being horribly inconsistent with the object model in my mind, is quite inconvenient to boot. It takes no effort to double-click--certainly not enough to cause me any exertion or even thought. I want to work on it.... click.... want to open it... click, click.... It's open.

Now, for something that _really_ frustrates me, where are the spring-opening folders in Linux. That's probably the single biggest missing feature for me. I think that only Rox filer offers something approaching this, and it needs a modifier key, IIRC. You can have your single-click, but give me my spring-opening folders! ;-)

-Jon

[paul101]

double click only takes a fraction of a second



lazy people here :razz:

[timzak]

I use both methods (wife's computer is set to single-click), and am okay with both, but prefer double-clicking. Too easy to accidentally launch/open a file when I'm trying to select multiple files (it's so engrained in me to single-click to select). Although, I'm sure I'd get used to it over time, but why, when I'm already used to and happy with double-clicking?

[ugm6hr]

I am a double-click person, but that is just because I am used to double-clicking. I think single-clicking would be a lot easier for starting users. Problem is that, once you are used to something, it is very difficult to change.

Double-click is not intuitive. But once repetitive fine motor functions are learned, they are difficult to unlearn.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Okay, my view has changed slightly. Double click in a file browser is still broken because it's really the only effective way to open a file (the toolbar lacks that button, menubar and context menu are last choices).
What we need is feedback on the first click (eg: actions appear as big buttons, nice preview), more feedback on the second one (eg: default action).

Right now, the lack of useful feedback until click #2 is silly. The user has obviously selected a particular file, so why not provide some useful interface for it instead of keeping relevant functions hidden away in the corners?

That two click (rather than double click) thought could remedy the problem with touch screens, too. Both sides of the fence would be satisfied by there being instant feedback on a click (what single click users want) without that feedback being expensive - thus no problem with accidental clicking...