The Pros and Cons of Vista and Ubuntu

[irv]

I know this is a Ubuntu Linux board, but I know there are many out here that use both Windows and Linux. It would be interesting to see if other are experiencing the same things I am experiencing.
First, I have two laptops one with Vista and the other with Ubuntu 8.04. Now both machines do updates on a regular basis. The difference is every time Vista updates it need to reboot the computer where Ubuntu dose not unless the kernel is updated. Even if the software is updated on Vista it reboots. Now the other day Vista did a service pack update and it took three phases to do it. (over three hours). I could have installed Ubuntu three time in that period. I am not going into why I am using Windows, but let me just say I have no choice.
There are many other thing I have experience between the two OS's but it would be great to see what others have experienced. Remember this is just on the latest version of Windows and Ubuntu.

[sharks]

The biggest pro i can see in vista is that i could play more games on it(i know that there are games in ubuntu) . the con is that
Loading times are slow, especially when starting up the computer and its all about money.

[dustman]

true, if you've got a good computer, gaming in vista is better sometimes than gaming even in XP. that's why i have vista on a partition, and that's be just for gaming, nothing more.

[TwiceOver]

I use Vista at work for LOB apps. Slow file transfer times is what is killing me with Vista. Also they made the menus less intuitive. And yes the SP1 update took an annoyingly long time.

Ubuntu's updates are great, but whether good or bad, there are a lot of them.

[SuperSonic4]

I'm not sure if this counts since I'm running Kubuntu 8.04.1 :p

I used to find Vista better for A/V transcoding (until pacpl :D) and Office 07 is good too as is core temp for checking processor temperature. Printer support and GH3 are the biggest things keeping me with vista.

Kubuntu is however quicker to load, and can do an awful lot of things that vista can't most notably give me piece of mind regarding malware. aMSN is a good substitute for WLM and firefox is much the same. It also has Amarok, probably the best music player there is. <3

[sharks]

true, if you've got a good computer, gaming in vista is better sometimes than gaming even in XP

What do u mean by a good computer?

Vista is like a gas, it expands to fit the container.
:lolflag:

[Archmage]

Vista don't run on my PC, the lastest version of Ubuntu does.

[irv]

Vista don't run on my PC, the lastest version of Ubuntu does.
That is a very good point. I have installed 8.04 on many old pc's but Vista would not run on any of them. Now that Microsoft is stopping support on Win9X and ME, and XP is down the road, old hardware will need Linux to exist.

[LaRoza]

The only real reason to use Vista is to use hardware or software that only runs on Windows. There really isn't a logical reason to use it otherwise. Vista itself is nothing special.

[drubin]

That is a very good point. I have installed 8.04 on many old pc's but Vista would not run on any of them. Now that Microsoft is stopping support on Win9X and ME, and XP is down the road, old hardware will need Linux to exist.

The bigest issue i have with Vista is the amount of resources it uses, I will not install it unless I HAVE to. I do not want to end up having to get a Quad Core with 8gigs of ram just to have my windows drag around the screen nicely!

All my friends have sadly converted the vista, and when ever they have issues they ask me for help I am a bit clueless as they changed/moved all the settings around. I cant seem to find things any more.

There will of course come a time when I am forced to installed the dreaded OS and when that time comes it will be like learning a completely new OS yet again...

[Mr Wrath]

Vista to me is a pain to work with when doing network administrating. Getting passed all the permissions, is just annoying. (Con)

Ubuntu, not very hard at all...in my opinion. (Pro)

Gaming...goes to Vista. (Pro)

Limited Gaming...Ubuntu. (Con)

[Sef]

Now that Microsoft is stopping support on Win9X and ME, and XP is down the road, old hardware will need Linux to exist.

Support has been stopped on Win9x and ME for a while. XP with service pack 3 (http://keznews.com/4440_Windows_XP_SP3_Brings_the_Death_of_SP2_-_July_13__2010) will run until 2014.

[Orlsend]

The only thing that windows beat Ubuntu is Games.

Ubuntu pretty much beats Windows in all other fields...

[irv]

I just ran into a very serious problem. I have a 60Gig Western Digital External Hard Drive that I use for all my backups. I cleaned it up yesterday by formatting it in Vista. (using Fat32). Now my Ubuntu laptop will not even recognize it when I plug it in. I can read it on my Vista machine. I wonder if Microsoft's Vista uses a formatting that is different than XP. To find out, I will need to re-format it on a XP machine to see if this does the trick. I will post here if it does.
I just checked and Vista only formats in NTFS or exFat. The exFat is not recognized on my Ubuntu laptop.

[Canis familiaris]

Microsoft Windows Vista
Pros
1: Being based on the de-facto platform of Windows, there will great Hardware support from the Hardware Vendors.
2: Also since it is de-facro OS, there is a sheer number of software available and also software from Microsoft, Adobe, Autodesk, Corel run natively.
3: Flashy look and Feel.
4: All PC Games run natively or rather Games are designed to run in this OS.
5: Sheer number of users and unofficial support from friends and internet

Cons
1: Insecure OS. Prone to Virus, Spyware, etc.
2: Pretty slow for PCs having anything less than 2GB of RAM.
3: Very Costly.(assuming piracy not an option)
4: DRM lock-in
5: Tends to slow down over time.
6: Windows genuine (dis)advantage
7: Bloated.


Ubuntu 8.04.1 (Hardy Heron)
Pros
1: Very Secure. Near zero chance of infection from virus and malware.
2: Free of Cost and also can be distributed
3: Does not slowdown over time.
4: Way too configurable
5: Amazing Community though Less in number
6: Sophisticated Package Management
7: No DRM lock-in.


Cons
1: Some Hardware is not supported and as a result very difficult to make them work.
2: 3D drivers of ATI and nVidia can be buggy at times
3: Most Games are not designed for Ubuntu. They need to run with WINE which gives varied experiences and will not work for all games.
4: Resources from/of other distros may/may not run.
5: There may be no/"good enough for you" alternatives for your Windows programs.

[aaaantoine]

Windows Vista:
+ More attractive default appearance.
+ Tremendous software support.
+ Supported by virtually all hardware vendors.
+ Includes an elaborate suite of GUI administration tools.

- Most drivers have to be manually installed on a new installation.
- Huge base installation size (10 GB).
- A majority of the default installation cannot easily be removed.
- Digital Rights Management software deeply ingrained into the OS.
- Costs money.
- System updates require a computer restart.
- The one flashy compositing trick, Start+Tab, is almost completely useless.
- User Access Control, when enabled, asks for permission several times during an administrative action.

Ubuntu 8.10:
+ Available for free.
+ A lot of free software installed by default.
+ Modular design allows the user to uninstall all but the most critical software (or to hand pick packages when installing from scratch).
+ Most hardware drivers are loaded into the kernel, meaning supported hardware works out of the box.
+ Gnome is a functionally superior window manager. (Workspaces, alt-click + drag, Always On Top option available for all windows.)
+ System updates can be applied without restarting the entire operating system.
+ The command line interface is an extremely flexible tool.
+ Compiz, installed by default, offers a tremendous number of compositing tricks that can improve your work functionality or impress onlookers. With the installation of an additional package compizconfig-settings-manager, these options can be hand tailored to fit your preferences.
+ sudo / gksu / kdesu operations ask for a password at most once every fifteen minutes when performing administrative tasks. This can be adjusted.

- Installing new drivers in an existing kernel is a relatively cumbersome process (unless a deb file is available).
- Some tasks can only be done via the command line, making usage harder for GUI dependent users.
- Relative lack of hardware manufacturer support.
- Relative lack of software vendor support.
- With all but Nvidia's proprietary drivers, GL applications flicker while Compiz is running. This will be a con until DRI2 is implemented.
- Compiz does not display window previews for minimized windows (listed because Vista does do this).

There are plenty more pros and cons for both.

[gn2]

I wonder if Microsoft's Vista uses a formatting that is different than XP. To find out, I will need to re-format it on a XP machine to see if this does the trick. I will post here if it does.
I just checked and Vista only formats in NTFS or exFat. The exFat is not recognized on my Ubuntu laptop.

Another option would be to use a Gparted Live CD to format the external drive as Fat32 if that's the file system you like.

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php

[irv]

Another option would be to use a Gparted Live CD to format the external drive as Fat32 if that's the file system you like.

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php

Thanks for the tip, but I went another way.


I just checked and Vista only formats in NTFS or exFat. The exFat is not recognized on my Ubuntu laptop.

A quick up date on my post on exfat in Vista. I had to turn off the security on Vista go to the command prompt and do a format /FS:fat32 on the usb drive to get it to work with Ubuntu. But I found I was wrong about Vista only offering NTFS or exFat. It only offers this if the Hard Drive is to big for FAT32. I had to make two partitions on the drive and then it allow me to format them with FAT32 from within Vista. I should be able to mount and read them once the format is done. This is just another perk for having two pc's running two different OS's.

[geoken]

Here are my Vista pro's

+Pre-caching works great. If you have the ram apps launch ridiculously fast. The difference between starting up Firefox and un-minimizing it's window is almost undetectable. I can start up Flash, Illustrator and Photoshop (I actually have a batch file which starts them all) faster than I can start Gimp or Inkscape on their own. I've tried it on Ubuntu and the effect wasn't comparable.

+Vista's file manager crushes Nautilus. Despite having 10x the features of Nautilus, it's significantly faster. It has the ability to easily create dynamic virtual folders, it can show items in collapsible groups, it can apply all it's sorting criteria to over 200 metadata types, it can easily filter via dropdown lists on every list view header, and on and on. It's metadata based sorting/filtering is so powerful that I actually find it easier to navigate my music collection with Windows explorer than with banshee or rhythmbox. Similarly, I find it easier to navigate my pics with a customized explorer than with fspot/gthumb.

+WMP 11 is better than everything. I'd say it's tied with Amarok, but Amarok's search based library management isn't conducive to me.

+Windows obviously has greater software selection.

[SomeGuyDude]

If Vista was more responsive and didn't need that five minutes on boot to kinda "warm up", it'd be great.

Windows really isn't that bad, it's just sluggish and a bit bloated. It's not counterintuitive or poorly designed, most of the real problems seem to be in the nuts and bolts. When I have to work on a Windows machine, I'm mostly annoyed with the speed, not much else.

[geoken]

This is just another perk for having two pc's running two different OS's.

Just an FYI, there are EX2 drivers which will let you run an EXT2/3 partition without issue. My HTPC is currently running Vista but all media is stored on an internal EXT3 formatted drive.

[gn2]

Just an FYI, there are EX2 drivers which will let you run an EXT2/3 partition without issue. My HTPC is currently running Vista but all media is stored on an internal EXT3 formatted drive.

Here it is: http://www.fs-driver.org/
I use it for read access from Vista, no way would I trust Vista to write to my precious Linux partitions.....

[irv]

Just for the Record, I have the WD External drive formated (FAT32) and Ubuntu mounts and read it again.

[billgoldberg]

What do u mean by a good computer?

:lolflag:

I guess he means that you need better hardware to run games in Vista than in XP.

And that with directx 10, the games look better than in XP.

--

Shouldn't this go in reoccurring discussions?

I've heard it all a thousand times.

[geoken]

Here it is: http://www.fs-driver.org/
I use it for read access from Vista, no way would I trust Vista to write to my precious Linux partitions.....

Windows Media Center on the my Vista HTPC does all it's recording to an EXT3 formatted drive. Haven't had any issues.

[Polygon]

except that driver does NOT write to the journal, since it is only a ext2 driver, so if windows crashes while it has the hard drive mounted, it might cause data loss and then the next time you start up ubuntu, it will do a check on all of the partitions of the drives that were mounted within windows when it crashed, i know it does it to me all the time when my videogames make windows bsod >.<

[aaaantoine]

Here are my Vista pro's

+Pre-caching works great. If you have the ram apps launch ridiculously fast. The difference between starting up Firefox and un-minimizing it's window is almost undetectable. I can start up Flash, Illustrator and Photoshop (I actually have a batch file which starts them all) faster than I can start Gimp or Inkscape on their own. I've tried it on Ubuntu and the effect wasn't comparable.

They launch ridiculously fast at the expense of system startup time (defined as "the time it takes for your computer to go from '0' to loading the desktop and stopping the hard drive churn"). If you turn on your computer looking to do something really quickly and then turn it back off, wouldn't you be slowed down by Vista, which is is too busy loading your most common applications into cache before allocating disk IO to that other file or program you're loading?

Linux's method of keeping data in cache when you have RAM to spare is particularly useful. Having the option to enable pre-caching would be cool, though.

Your thoughts on WMP11 are also subjective, but I don't want to get into that. I'm pretty sure I agree with the rest.

[adamogardner]

vista sucks, but at least it's slow. Ubuntu, is like being dropped in a foreign land, with natives looking at you funny.

[linuxguymarshall]

While I agree about Windows Vista being great for gaming I still just Wine all my games. I think if I really had to I would run Windows in VirtualBox but that would be about it. Whenever I get my mac I only plan to have OSX and Ubuntu on it. I already buy id software because they are cross platform and I hope others follow. If all else fails Wine is not that far behind

[geoken]

They launch ridiculously fast at the expense of system startup time (defined as "the time it takes for your computer to go from '0' to loading the desktop and stopping the hard drive churn"). If you turn on your computer looking to do something really quickly and then turn it back off, wouldn't you be slowed down by Vista, which is is too busy loading your most common applications into cache before allocating disk IO to that other file or program you're loading?

I haven't ran any extensive tests so I can't really comment. What I can say is that the difference in start up time seems negligible to me and as someone who will run weeks (on average) without a restart I don't consider it a big price to pay.



Your thoughts on WMP11 are also subjective, but I don't want to get into that. I'm pretty sure I agree with the rest.

You're right, they are subjective. I apologize for not making that clear. Basically my point was that if you prefer the music library management method where all files are presented to you at once (seen in WMP, Rhythmbox, Banshee, etc) then WMP slightly edges out Amarok.

[lzfy]

+ Vista
- It is very fast if you have the right hardware.
- Fast UI. If you turn on Aero the UI is a joy to use. Browsing files, minimizing/maximizing windows is really fast.
- Standby works the way it should work.
- Gaming
- Desktop search is better by default
- Installing applications is really easy. No need to deal with dependencies.
- You can configure everything without using the CLI.
- Easy install of drivers. If you're hardware isn't recognized by default in Ubuntu, then you do have a problem.

+ (K)Ubuntu
- No activation needed.
- Tons of free software available
- APT. Updating the system and all installed software with one command is just amazing.
- Better default applications
- Customization options
- Community
- More secure.


That's my list :)