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adamogardner
August 17th, 2008, 01:54 PM
hi, I wrote my first Python script yesturday. You know - print 'hello world'. Now I have high aspirations and an idea of whats missing in a web browser. Before I disclose my idea to the world I want to ask what does someone like me do with a good idea? I don't expect to do much with it but It would be nice if it were named after me.
SO after having adjusted my color settings (font and background on firefox) occasionally I get to a web page that clashes with my font color making it difficult to read text. My program will calculate a websites color scheme and if it falls in a bracket of color that clashes it will temporarily change the specific setting required to read or view whatever until a go to another website.
Has this been done? Anyone want to get on board? I know I will read this in two months and slap my forehead for being so stupid.

adamogardner
August 17th, 2008, 06:47 PM
I'm looking for an online collaborative Python IDE. There is something called UNA by Nminds and it costs $300.00. Not what I had in mind but it has everything we need.

This post has stimulated interest in my personal mailbox, so as far as I'm concerned the project has begun. Once the enviornment is set up we can go in and mess with things concomitantly. I can't think of a better time!

Wybiral
August 17th, 2008, 06:56 PM
This seems much more like something you would want to add on to an existing browser instead of (I don't know what you have in mind, exactly) writing a browser from scratch.

In this case, you need to learn the tools and languages required for the target browser addon.

adamogardner
August 17th, 2008, 07:29 PM
This seems much more like something you would want to add on to an existing browser instead of (I don't know what you have in mind, exactly) writing a browser from scratch.

In this case, you need to learn the tools and languages required for the target browser addon.

yeah I want to give it to mozilla. It seems like a standard thing a browser should have, rather than an add-on.

Tomosaur
August 17th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Uhhh you mean like this? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7166

Always check that your idea hasn't been done before! If you imagine something similar, but a bit different, then you should see about tweaking the add-on I just linked you to rather than starting from scratch.

adamogardner
August 17th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Uhhh you mean like this? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7166

Always check that your idea hasn't been done before! If you imagine something similar, but a bit different, then you should see about tweaking the add-on I just linked you to rather than starting from scratch.

thanks so much for the link. this will be helpful. the add-on is useless though cause you can just change the preferences in the browser.

Do you know how retarded you sound lecturing me? Why do you think I am Asking "has this been done before?" And the condescending "uhhhh" I can do without. Seriously!

Tomosaur
August 17th, 2008, 08:16 PM
thanks so much for the link. this will be helpful. the add-on is useless though cause you can just change the preferences in the browser.

Do you know how retarded you sound lecturing me? Why do you think I am Asking "has this been done before?" And the condescending "uhhhh" I can do without. Seriously!

I sound retarded for trying to stop you wasting your own time? The 'uhhhh' was to signify my uncertainty that the add-on actually does what you are asking about, not to be condescending.

But I don't know why I'm bothering even replying if you're just going to bite my head off - have a nice day.

pmasiar
August 17th, 2008, 08:51 PM
It is extremely hard to invent new original idea - because there are so many smart people everywhere :-)

So in most cases, "new" idea is just something you don't know it was done, often couple of times.

Read fascinating Homesteading the Noosphere (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/) by ESR to learn about Hackers as Gift Culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_culture) (with examples of tribes who live in such world), reputation etc. Of course read all writings of ESR (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/) - The Cathedral and the Bazaar gave us Mozilla and concept of 'open source' (as compared to older 'Free software' concept).

loganwm
August 17th, 2008, 08:53 PM
thanks so much for the link. this will be helpful. the add-on is useless though cause you can just change the preferences in the browser.

Do you know how retarded you sound lecturing me? Why do you think I am Asking "has this been done before?" And the condescending "uhhhh" I can do without. Seriously!

Don't be so hostile.

<horrible analogy>
There's no need to reinvent the wheel, but you can always work on improving the treads, the proportions, the size, textures, performance, etc. You're free to do what you'd like.
</horrible analogy>

PandaGoat
August 17th, 2008, 09:24 PM
Since everyone here seems not to be contributing to this thread:

adamogardner, I would not be discouraged by what these guys say. I agree, yes, they sound ret . . .like they did not even read your post--he asked if it has been done before; try not to "lecture" about something he is obviously aware about; it makes you sound like you're just posting to post; just doing that to make yourself feel better, pretending you're better than him.

It isn't a bad idea, although it would require writing your own browser, adding to firefox, or making an addon. It is probably not worth adding to firefox's code because such things as your idea is what addons are for.

I would suggest not posting just an idea on a forum with so many stuck up people unless you're a moderator or someone well liked. They don't want to help--they just want to give you "advice." Don't listen to them--make it if you want, but make it better than other ones (obviously).

I am not going to respond anymore to this thread to avoid arguing. I felt this was necessary since the OP is obviously distressed at everyone trying to "help," and more people continue posting the same crap--if that continues nothing will be done.

adamogardner
August 17th, 2008, 09:27 PM
It is extremely hard to invent new original idea - because there are so many smart people everywhere :-)

So in most cases, "new" idea is just something you don't know it was done, often couple of times.

Read fascinating Homesteading the Noosphere (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/) by ESR to learn about Hackers as Gift Culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_culture) (with examples of tribes who live in such world), reputation etc. Of course read all writings of ESR (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/) - The Cathedral and the Bazaar gave us Mozilla and concept of 'open source' (as compared to older 'Free software' concept).

yes but I think we can agree that firefox does not auto-contrast colors after settings change.

I Understood going into this (not that I'm even in it yet) that I would be standing on the shoulders of predecessors. What I have is a huge problem be lectured on obvious stuff. It was as if the person lecturing didn't read my post.

To tomosaur, I am sorry for snapping. Please forgive me and try to understand my sensitivities. I value your knowledge, and opinions just not 'that' way.

pmasiar
August 17th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Do you know how retarded you sound lecturing me? Why do you think I am Asking "has this been done before?" And the condescending "uhhhh" I can do without. Seriously!

no, you are **definitely** not ready to join any project. You need to work on your attitude first, learn how to make friends.

You (a hacker wannabe) are trying to ask volunteers hacking on a project to spend time on helping you to understand something, often asking quite trivial questions, while they would better spend **their own free time** on something they want to do: fixing than nagging bug.

You need to understand that noone owes you a second of it's free time, it is great generosity to even notice you and respond "RTFM, page x" - it would be much simpler to ignore you.

Only after you conceptualize **this** you may consider joining any project. Think about it.

pmasiar
August 17th, 2008, 09:35 PM
yes but I think we can agree that firefox does not auto-contrast colors after settings change.

I have no idea what you are talking about, and I am not sure if I care (about that feature, not about you. If I did not care about you I'll just ignore your post).

Read the links provided to understand the culture you are about to enter.

adamogardner
August 17th, 2008, 10:49 PM
no, you are **definitely** not ready to join any project. You need to work on your attitude first, learn how to make friends.

You (a hacker wannabe) are trying to ask volunteers hacking on a project to spend time on helping you to understand something, often asking quite trivial questions, while they would better spend **their own free time** on something they want to do: fixing than nagging bug.

You need to understand that noone owes you a second of it's free time, it is great generosity to even notice you and respond "RTFM, page x" - it would be much simpler to ignore you.

Only after you conceptualize **this** you may consider joining any project. Think about it.

Wow, you are so funny? Are you a clown in real life? I only asked cause of your 3 posts. I answered the first one you wrote something irrelevant about nothing new under the sun and building on other's ideas. So I responded that it is a new idea (you probaly spent 2 hours trying to find it somewhere just to prove me wrong and couldn't) so you write back cracking jokes and making yourself look like the king's fool. OK I guess I won't be joining any of your projects (tongue in cheek).
But seriously, if all you care about is me (ok hold on I have to laugh again) then I will consider further postings by you as STALKING, because this thread is on a subject you statedly don't care about. CIAO 4 GOOD

loganwm
August 17th, 2008, 11:15 PM
Wow, you are so funny? Are you a clown in real life? I only asked cause of your 3 posts. I answered the first one you wrote something irrelevant about nothing new under the sun and building on other's ideas. So I responded that it is a new idea (you probaly spent 2 hours trying to find it somewhere just to prove me wrong and couldn't) so you write back cracking jokes and making yourself look like the king's fool. OK I guess I won't be joining any of your projects (tongue in cheek).
But seriously, if all you care about is me (ok hold on I have to laugh again) then I will consider further postings by you as STALKING, because this thread is on a subject you statedly don't care about. CIAO 4 GOOD

Comportez-vous les enfants

pmasiar
August 17th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Wow, you are so funny? Are you a clown in real life? ... then I will consider further postings by you as STALKING, because this thread is on a subject you statedly don't care about. CIAO 4 GOOD

Good luck! You really know how to win friends!

As I said I do not care about the feature but I was trying to show you how hacker community works - but as they say, you can bring horse to the water but you cannot make it drink.

And feel free to report this as 'stalking' if you feel so. I will try to remember to ignore your further posts.

Edit: "you probaly spent 2 hours trying to find it somewhere just to prove me wrong and couldn't"

You think too much about your idea. I did not waste even 5 minutes to look it up - it is up to you to prove it is valid. I have more projects of my own than time.

I mistakenly assumed you need help - but you need something else. Sorry dude talk is cheap show me the code.

Wybiral
August 17th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Wow, you are so funny? Are you a clown in real life? I only asked cause of your 3 posts. I answered the first one you wrote something irrelevant about nothing new under the sun and building on other's ideas. So I responded that it is a new idea (you probaly spent 2 hours trying to find it somewhere just to prove me wrong and couldn't) so you write back cracking jokes and making yourself look like the king's fool. OK I guess I won't be joining any of your projects (tongue in cheek).
But seriously, if all you care about is me (ok hold on I have to laugh again) then I will consider further postings by you as STALKING, because this thread is on a subject you statedly don't care about. CIAO 4 GOOD

I wouldn't be so defensive if I were you... You have to understand that in an open source community, we see people trying to start projects all the time. Your first project will almost definitely fail. If there's anything remotely like what you want to make (even if it's the exact some concept) it's better to work with them, if nothing just to get a feel for how your own project should go and learn from their mistakes.

But more importantly, it's a complete waste of your time (and our time) for you to post an idea with no proof of concept and expect experienced people to want to contribute. Most serious developers (the kind you probably want help from) will tell you to "show us some code or gtfo".

So, make a mockup... Prove that your idea is realistic and that it's not like what already exists, and come back later. Otherwise, you need to expect people to doubt what you're doing because we see "good ideas" every day that rarely make it past the drawing board.

Kadrus
August 17th, 2008, 11:46 PM
Wow, you are so funny? Are you a clown in real life? I only asked cause of your 3 posts. I answered the first one you wrote something irrelevant about nothing new under the sun and building on other's ideas. So I responded that it is a new idea (you probaly spent 2 hours trying to find it somewhere just to prove me wrong and couldn't) so you write back cracking jokes and making yourself look like the king's fool. OK I guess I won't be joining any of your projects (tongue in cheek).
But seriously, if all you care about is me (ok hold on I have to laugh again) then I will consider further postings by you as STALKING, because this thread is on a subject you statedly don't care about. CIAO 4 GOOD
I will try to keep this post as nice as possible.I hope you can realize how wrong you are by making this post,insulting pmasiar who is a very experienced programmer trying to help you out with his knowledge and experience.Second of all calling a guy retarded is not nice at all,no matter what he would have posted(and it wasn't bad at all by the way)you could have responded in a better way,in a decent manner..I saw the apologie if you want to bring it up in a reply and which you probably will.
If you haven't read the Code Of Conduct,I will post a rule here:


Flaming and condescending messages: Flames are messages that personally attack, call people names, or otherwise harass another forum member(or any person). These, along with any generally condescending posts will be moved or removed at the moderators discretion.

I should have reported your posts,but I didn't for some reason.
I hope that you will give the respect that other members of this forum deserve,or you will not be respected yourself.
And I hope that you will not snap at my respond.

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 12:04 AM
I wouldn't be so defensive if I were you... You have to understand that in an open source community, we see people trying to start projects all the time. Your first project will almost definitely fail. If there's anything remotely like what you want to make (even if it's the exact some concept) it's better to work with them, if nothing just to get a feel for how your own project should go and learn from their mistakes.

But more importantly, it's a complete waste of your time (and our time) for you to post an idea with no proof of concept and expect experienced people to want to contribute. Most serious developers (the kind you probably want help from) will tell you to "show us some code or gtfo".

So, make a mockup... Prove that your idea is realistic and that it's not like what already exists, and come back later. Otherwise, you need to expect people to doubt what you're doing because we see "good ideas" every day that rarely make it past the drawing board.

I see what you mean. I want to do those things you describe and have expected to from the start (learning from others, using open source - how else was I gonna do it) This is why I asked those specific things: If it exists, I was clear about the code I have written thus far (print 'hello world'), and I asked if anyone wanted to work with something like this, not begging for help by any means. I am having fun learning something new, and haven't developed that nasty geek-ego you describe. Like The ones that attacked me. I don't see how my idea is not realistic? All these egos have been searching for an existing pattern to show me so they can feel right, but my concept doesn't exist I'm learning. So why wait and work in my basement, I am sharing my idea, cause I'm open-source. Everyone wants to dismiss it, but the idea is a good one. and so they are resorting to irrelevent lecturing. WHY? don't say waste of time because what could be a bigger waste of time than to write irrelevant ego trips on subjects claimed to be of no interest.
And for the record I was taking the offensive ;)

crazyness003
August 18th, 2008, 12:14 AM
I Think we PO'd the OP..(hehe POOP)

Anyway, he did have a good idea. If it could remember or, hell even automatically set the contrast difference through some sort of mini ai. that would be cool\

But alas, me != programmer, so i dont know about ANYTHING related to that ('cept for the != part)

But as a consumer, i would love something that automatically does it for me, and if i didnt like it, it gives me the option to tweak as necessary. I know you can get greasemonkey and some other stuffs, but im talking about AUTO. no rightclicks-shortcutkeys-voicecommands.

Or if it could just read yourmind...that would be acceptable...maybe.

So back to business.
Awesome idea? yes.
Has it been done before? yes, to an extent.
Room for improvement? cannot understand question, repeat...
loop question(room_for_improvement){
if x!=answer; output "cannot understand question, repeat..."
else; putput=answer
};

latermons

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 12:16 AM
I will try to keep this post as nice as possible.I hope you can realize how wrong you are by making this post,insulting pmasiar who is a very experienced programmer trying to help you out with his knowledge and experience.Second of all calling a guy retarded is not nice at all,no matter what he would have posted(and it wasn't bad at all by the way)you could have responded in a better way,in a decent manner..I saw the apologie if you want to bring it up in a reply and which you probably will.
If you haven't read the Code Of Conduct,I will post a rule here:

I should have reported your posts,but I didn't for some reason.
I hope that you will give the respect that other members of this forum deserve,or you will not be respected yourself.
And I hope that you will not snap at my respond.

your response doesn't deserve to be snapped back from. The other's did. If you read it I said he sounded like a retard (I'm sorry) but he didn't read my post and was rude. Then the other experienced programmer wasn't talking about programming but some flimsy argument that it doesn't exist and I replied very nicely that it did. then post appologie he rants on me about non-programming subjects. making friends, not joining his projects, as if this wasn't flame baiting come-on!? I think today I have earned the respect I deserve. I would take council from a moderator who is impartial to these milti-cupped forum members, if you see fit to report me. yet I wonder why you didn't. I wonder if there is any coincidence to the fact that the only people interested posted to my private mailbox, rather than publicly where they would be berated by the geek-egos.

p_quarles
August 18th, 2008, 12:21 AM
And for the record I was taking the offensive ;)
Yes, you were, and as has been pointed out already, you violated the forum's Code of Conduct in doing so. Please don't call people names. And there really is no need to get worked up over the fact that people are contributing crticism to your nascent project.

Being able to accept and evaluate criticism is necessary to success in *any* creative endeavour. If you're uninterested in listening to criticism, I would have to agree that you're maybe not ready to work on a collaborative project. In any case, this forum isn't for flamewars, so please at least pretend to be receptive to critiques while posting here.

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 12:25 AM
I Think we PO'd the OP..(hehe POOP)

Anyway, he did have a good idea. If it could remember or, hell even automatically set the contrast difference through some sort of mini ai. that would be cool\

But alas, me != programmer, so i dont know about ANYTHING related to that ('cept for the != part)

But as a consumer, i would love something that automatically does it for me, and if i didnt like it, it gives me the option to tweak as necessary. I know you can get greasemonkey and some other stuffs, but im talking about AUTO. no rightclicks-shortcutkeys-voicecommands.

Or if it could just read yourmind...that would be acceptable...maybe.

So back to business.
Awesome idea? yes.
Has it been done before? yes, to an extent.
Room for improvement? cannot understand question, repeat...
loop question(room_for_improvement){
if x!=answer; output "cannot understand question, repeat..."
else; putput=answer
};

latermons

thankyou, I appreciate that. yes totally automatic. but you shoould be able to set it roughly. I say roughly cause I can just imagine the headache of user trying to figure out exact colors. "It's just a quick so you can see everything switch" then back to normal as you click another link. I'm still looking for those extents to which they have been done. Anyone?

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 12:30 AM
Yes, you were, and as has been pointed out already, you violated the forum's Code of Conduct in doing so. Please don't call people names. And there really is no need to get worked up over the fact that people are contributing crticism to your nascent project.

Being able to accept and evaluate criticism is necessary to success in *any* creative endeavour. If you're uninterested in listening to criticism, I would have to agree that you're maybe not ready to work on a collaborative project. In any case, this forum isn't for flamewars, so please at least pretend to be receptive to critiques while posting here.

ok, I'm sorry everyone for my mismanagement of words.

pmasiar
August 18th, 2008, 12:35 AM
ok, I'm sorry everyone for my mismanagement of words

OK, I am ready to forgive you with one condition:

If you learn to trim when quoting :-)

(see my sig for links)

And in case you are not sure, it was joke. I'll like you to trim of course but it is not a condition :-)

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 12:44 AM
OK, I am ready to forgive you with one condition:

If you learn to trim when quoting :-)

(see my sig for links)

And in case you are not sure, it was joke. I'll like you to trim of course but it is not a condition :-)

haha no, I got the joke, but I'm sure this "trimming of quotes" is important and will look into it. Don't know what it means yet though.

since the thread is back on track, I need to consider a thing that I don't know if it exists. A collaborative IDE. How do you guys work on things across distance? like if I wanted to invite you into my IDE I'd give you a URL link etc. then we'd both be there. I only found the one that costs 300.00 dollars.

Wybiral
August 18th, 2008, 12:46 AM
I was clear about the code I have written thus far (print 'hello world')
...
Everyone wants to dismiss it, but the idea is a good one.

What I mean is that you need to show us an algorithm that does what you have in mind. "hello world" isn't even in the same ballpark.

My tip would be for you to write a simple module/library for parsing out the color scheme of a site and have it return the new scheme (or whatever you have in mind). Do this for proof of concept before implementing it into a browser or perfecting it. This is the kind of stuff that will get other developers interested... We like to see working demos, not just ideas.

Wybiral
August 18th, 2008, 12:49 AM
How do you guys work on things across distance?

The IDE isn't important. We usually use some kind of source repository like SVN for collaborating on code. Something like code.google.com is a good host for your SVN and issue tracking.

CptPicard
August 18th, 2008, 12:52 AM
since the thread is back on track, I need to consider a thing that I don't know if it exists. A collaborative IDE. How do you guys work on things across distance?

What you are looking at here is writing a Firefox extension (http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=yRX&q=writing+firefox+extension&btnG=Hae&meta=) (Google Is Your Friend). Firefox is not extended in Python so you're looking in the wrong direction.

The main collaboration tool usually is some form of version control, CVS or Subversion. You code in whatever you need to / want to, then check your changes in to the central repostory.

But really, not to sound offensive or anything but to be very honest with you, you seem rather out of your depth. You really need to get comfortable first with basics of development before you can tackle anything like this. And once you can, you need to work on it on your own first so that you can be genuinely "open source" and not just "open ideas".

Look up user called "cubytes" on the forum and his posts, if they haven't been archived into oblivion already. The poor guy was full of ideas and short on competence, and was frankly laughed into oblivion.

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 12:53 AM
What I mean is that you need to show us an algorithm that does what you have in mind. "hello world" isn't even in the same ballpark.

My tip would be for you to write a simple module/library for parsing out the color scheme of a site and have it return the new scheme (or whatever you have in mind). Do this for proof of concept before implementing it into a browser or perfecting it. This is the kind of stuff that will get other developers interested... We like to see working demos, not just ideas.

ok got you now. thanks for both posts. My concept just became more resolved!

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 12:59 AM
What you are looking at here is writing a Firefox extension (http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=yRX&q=writing+firefox+extension&btnG=Hae&meta=) (Google Is Your Friend). Firefox is not extended in Python so you're looking in the wrong direction.

The main collaboration tool usually is some form of version control, CVS or Subversion. You code in whatever you need to / want to, then check your changes in to the central repostory.

But really, not to sound offensive or anything but to be very honest with you, you seem rather out of your depth. You really need to get comfortable first with basics of development before you can tackle anything like this. And once you can, you need to work on it on your own first so that you can be genuinely "open source" and not just "open ideas".

Look up user called "cubytes" on the forum and his posts, if they haven't been archived into oblivion already. The poor guy was full of ideas and short on competence, and was frankly laughed into oblivion.

yes your right I am way out of my depth, call it beginner's enthusiasm. I wanna drive the tank! it's too bad Python won't work, because i'm not going to abandon it (python) over this idea. I thought python could get glued in to java and whatever though. so I assumed I could do it.
Does that mean thread is closed?

CptPicard
August 18th, 2008, 01:05 AM
Uh, yes, you're SOL :)

Wybiral
August 18th, 2008, 01:14 AM
yes your right I am way out of my depth, call it beginner's enthusiasm. I wanna drive the tank! it's too bad Python won't work, because i'm not going to abandon it (python) over this idea. I thought python could get glued in to java and whatever though. so I assumed I could do it.
Does that mean thread is closed?

Python is great for a lot of projects... But yes, if you want to make a firefox addon, you'll need javascript/xul. Don't hesitate to learn new languages!

However, why don't you write a Python implementation of the algorithm for finding the appropriate colors, as a proof of concept. Your algorithm can be rewritten in any language later on, the goal is just to prove your concept works.

loganwm
August 18th, 2008, 01:17 AM
..
Look up user called "cubytes" on the forum and his posts, if they haven't been archived into oblivion already. The poor guy was full of ideas and short on competence, and was frankly laughed into oblivion.

I looked him up, jeeze. You guys tore up that dreamer real bad.


His ideas were delusions of grandeur, but it was a bit overly vicious.

CptPicard
August 18th, 2008, 01:21 AM
His ideas were delusions of grandeur, but it was a bit overly vicious.

Well, he just kept coming back for more, so what can you do but try to slap some sense into him? Call it tough love. Besides, it was so much fun... ;)

We are being very gentle with the OP here are we not? :)

loganwm
August 18th, 2008, 01:33 AM
Well, he just kept coming back for more, so what can you do but try to slap some sense into him? Call it tough love. Besides, it was so much fun... ;)

We are being very gentle with the OP here are we not? :)

More or less. Either way, I like how things work here, you and LaRoza, and others have been great to myself and others from what I've seen.

CptPicard
August 18th, 2008, 01:45 AM
Either way, I like how things work here

Well thank you, glad to get some positive feedback once in a while. Welcome to the jungle :p

loganwm
August 18th, 2008, 01:50 AM
Well thank you, glad to get some positive feedback once in a while. Welcome to the jungle :p

"Bienvenue A La Jungle"

I've begun studying French in addition to my C studies.

I've already decided which language is going to be infinitely less useful:

"Adieu Français"

Tomosaur
August 18th, 2008, 01:53 AM
I looked him up, jeeze. You guys tore up that dreamer real bad.


His ideas were delusions of grandeur, but it was a bit overly vicious.

I read somewhere that the 'original' definition of insanity was 'attempting to do the same thing over and over again, despite the fact that every attempt was a failure' - kind of like King Canute.

Most of Cubyte's detractors were simple trying to stop him from wasting his time. Most forums for open-source contributors encounter people with lots of ideas and very little (if any!) substance. We could be a lot meaner than we are - but is it better to tell people their idea is terrible, or is it better to guide people into discovering why their idea is terrible?

pmasiar
August 18th, 2008, 01:57 AM
Well thank you, glad to get some positive feedback once in a while. Welcome to the jungle :p

Yup, that's always nice.

So we are back in the jungle with regular programming? I see your sig is also back to normal :-)

pmasiar
August 18th, 2008, 01:59 AM
haha no, I got the joke, but I'm sure this "trimming of quotes" is important and will look into it. Don't know what it means yet though.

"trimming" means to delete irrelevant parts of post, (and possibly reply to post in couple takes, point by point) so it is obvious to which part you respond. It was considered common courtesy on usenet before... see my sig for details. Doing that you will look like you are in 'net since forever, not aq noob. :-)

> A collaborative IDE. How do you guys work on things across distance?[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of public code repositories. You either use command-line client, or your editor/IDE has a plugin for it. So everybody develops on own machine, and uploads ("commits") code when ready. If I want to see your changes, I'll update my working copy.

See more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_control

loganwm
August 18th, 2008, 02:04 AM
I read somewhere that the 'original' definition of insanity was 'attempting to do the same thing over and over again, despite the fact that every attempt was a failure' - kind of like King Canute.

Most of Cubyte's detractors were simple trying to stop him from wasting his time. Most forums for open-source contributors encounter people with lots of ideas and very little (if any!) substance. We could be a lot meaner than we are - but is it better to tell people their idea is terrible, or is it better to guide people into discovering why their idea is terrible?

IMHO There are two main types of people in the world:
Artists and Builders.

Artists work at a higher level, essentially a conceptional idea fountain. (sometimes an unstoppable one..)

Builders work at a lower level, designing the substance of something, bringing the transition from idea to prototype.

You can have traits of both, but any one person will always be more of one than the other, ideally you want a balance of both to achieve your full potential.

In my opinion, this is how I see how things work.

And the definition of insanity you referenced could be the prospect of performing the same action repeatedly and expecting different results.

And PS: @pmasiar, you're also on my list of people that I respect in this forum.

cmay
August 18th, 2008, 02:05 AM
Most of Cubyte's detractors were simple trying to stop him from wasting his time. Most forums for open-source contributors encounter people with lots of ideas and very little (if any!) substance. We could be a lot meaner than we are - but is it better to tell people their idea is terrible, or is it better to guide people into discovering why their idea is terrible?

not that its programming experience related but in terms of real life i can say both. when i started out helping other people i was like that. i had a freind that was way older than me and whit some where loads and lots of more life experience who practically would almost yell and scream some sense into me so bad i was grying sometimes but if he did not do that i could end up a very bad person to listen to adwise from. and when it is important as dealing whit other peoples lifes it is very good to have a true freind(which i known for 10 years now) that can hurt whit love to teach and also teach by example. so its not bad to explain some idea is messed up while telling its a complete mess. maybe you can use it in terms of programming or work related situations.
since you ask, i just wanted to share.

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 02:31 AM
I read somewhere that the 'original' definition of insanity was 'attempting to do the same thing over and over again, despite the fact that every attempt was a failure' - kind of like King Canute.

Most of Cubyte's detractors were simple trying to stop him from wasting his time. Most forums for open-source contributors encounter people with lots of ideas and very little (if any!) substance. We could be a lot meaner than we are - but is it better to tell people their idea is terrible, or is it better to guide people into discovering why their idea is terrible?

i think what I was missing earlier was my idea wouldn't work because python doesn't extend to firefox. but I could still work on the modules and logorythms to demonstrate it works then translate it. That there is another way than I was thinking about how to work on the same thing from different places. What was not effective is that it was unoriginal, a waste of time, and doomed to fail. these being said with no support of the statements. This is doomed to fail because..... would have been a language I can understand. Not supporting your statements isn't being mean, it's something else. So yeah leading people to discover is the way to go.

you all ought to be ashamed of yourselves come to think of it. You folks weren't mean like you boast(after my apology) you were all running to the mods offended. now me; I was mean. and your still sitting around licking your wounds in this dead thread trying to feel like the forumite's you once thought you were. Don't worry this pain will heal in time.

pmasiar
August 18th, 2008, 02:55 AM
python doesn't extend to firefox.

depends on your definition ot 'extend':

http://www.thomas-schilz.de/MozPython/README.html

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/archives/008865.html

http://sayspy.blogspot.com/2007/07/python-might-make-it-into-firefox-4.html

Last blog says that "Python might make it into Firefox 4" via https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tamarin:IronMonkey

So start learning!

> you all ought to be ashamed of yourselves come to think of it.

here you go again...

crazyness003
August 18th, 2008, 03:03 AM
Whoa whoa! Hold it. Like the man said (i cant temember and am too lazy to re-check) You write it in python, someone can help you write it in javascript/xul.
Now im not saying this is 100% surefire way to do it, but what if in the process, you create something better. I say go for it, before LaRoza consumes it into her coding, then you'd be doomed for sure</end joke>

Anyway, the only "programming", if you will, that i know is ActionScript 2.0, and that all i know is limited. Now i know its almost a clone of javascript, so if i can almost learn AS, then you can definitly learn JS. As for the other language, XUL (i dont even know what that means), that i cannot comment on.

But, if you or anyone else needs someone to test their code. Im open for that. I dont care how buggy it is, as long as it dosnt tell my computer to self destruct.
You can make it, i'll be more than glad to tell you how much you suck at programming!
Horray!

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 03:09 AM
thanks for those links pmasiar. I guess firefox though is written in Java something so I can do it first in Python and translate it or learn java too, or both. but lets face it I have A lot of studying to do. Could use a class maybe. and do a lot of prerequisites.

Well as long as we were still talking about being mean...one last dig couldn't hurt. E>

pmasiar
August 18th, 2008, 03:21 AM
I guess firefox though is written in Java something so I can do it first in Python and translate it or learn java too, or both.

JavaScript has nothing to do with Java at all - it is misleading marketing name, and it **still** confuses people.

AFAIK Firefox is in C or C++, which is good news for you, because Python can link to C world libraries easier than to Java.

And Tamarind is based on .NET technology and will run IronPython, not the standard (C)Python.

Yup, you have more googling and wikipedia reading ahead of you.

To learn Python, feel free to use wiki from my sig.

jinksys
August 18th, 2008, 04:31 AM
My favorite quote from that cubytes guy is



I no longer desire to help the open source community, I am going to buy out novell and make my own legacy

thanks for all of your help...........................

pmasiar
August 18th, 2008, 04:32 AM
Yup, but he was likely the kind of guy who would invest in SCO instead :-)

Tomosaur
August 18th, 2008, 11:07 AM
i think what I was missing earlier was my idea wouldn't work because python doesn't extend to firefox. but I could still work on the modules and logorythms to demonstrate it works then translate it. That there is another way than I was thinking about how to work on the same thing from different places. What was not effective is that it was unoriginal, a waste of time, and doomed to fail. these being said with no support of the statements. This is doomed to fail because..... would have been a language I can understand. Not supporting your statements isn't being mean, it's something else. So yeah leading people to discover is the way to go.


I never said it was doomed to fail - I was simply advising you not to waste your time doing something which has already been done (ie: an add-on for Firefox which enables a high contrast mode). I am wholly supportive of the novel part of your idea to make a colour scheme 'high contrast' automatically - but I think you'll be surprised at just how complex a problem this really is:

1) Computers don't understand colour, they only understand representations of colour. 'Blue' and 'Light Blue' look similar to us, but to a computer they are two different hex numbers. In order to find out what the colour scheme of a website even is - you are going to have to learn how to parse HTML and CSS - maybe even PHP. All of this just to find a hex number. Maybe the Gecko rendering engine (which Firefox uses) has some API which allow you to find out colours without having to mess about with HTML and CSS or whatever language the site is using, which would - I imagine - make your life a whole lot easier, but you'll have to find out about that for yourself.

2) Once you have the colour scheme, you then need to allow the computer to understand why the colour scheme is bad. This means you have to give the computer some concept of foreground and background. If done in CSS, this isn't such a big problem - but in the real world, websites are poorly designed and many websites have some styling in the HTML, some styling in the CSS. Your code needs to handle situations such as this.

3) Another issue you are likely to run into is when a website uses an image as a background for text. Many websites do this, particularly those which feature designs such as rounded corners and Web 2.0 glossy effects and all that kind of business. For your code to work, you also need to examine the data of these images to find out if there are any problems with colour.

4) Now this one I am still uncertain of what you actually want to do: Do you want to modify the look of the website just enough to allow easier reading (ie: lighten the background, darken the text or vice-versa), or do you just want to apply a blanket 'high contrast' style which many word processors and system themes include? If the former - then you are in for a nightmare, as you will have to tell your code which colours go well with each other (it is possible to do this algorithmically to an extent by setting a 'range' of colours which go well with another range). If the latter, then I would advise you not to bother. Just extend the add-on which aready exists to enable a per-tab setting and let the user decide when he/she wants to enable the high-contrast mode.



you all ought to be ashamed of yourselves come to think of it. You folks weren't mean like you boast(after my apology) you were all running to the mods offended. now me; I was mean. and your still sitting around licking your wounds in this dead thread trying to feel like the forumite's you once thought you were. Don't worry this pain will heal in time.Well I personally haven't 'run' to any mods, even though I technically should have since your first response to me was obviously intended to offend.

Look, the answer is very simple. Do you want our help or not? We have told you not to waste your time, and then you get defensive and start calling names. Until you can accept criticism and learn to not take it personally, I have to wonder why you even bothered asking in the first place. Nobody was particularly nasty to you until you started throwing insults about and whining about how everyone is criticising you. And even then - I don't think anybody has really said anything particularly mean in this thread - only you. Most of the posts have been advice or support, while a few (like me) feel that you would be wasting your time.

Even then, who was it who went and found a project similar to yours? You could have answered your own question ("Has this been done?") in about two minutes. The answer is 'yes, it has been done to an extent' - in that there exists an add-on for Firefox which allows the user to enable a high-contrast mode. I will let Pmasiar explain why the fact that you neglected to just browse the available add-ons for Firefox for a couple of minutes is bad, if he wants to (Alternatively, google for 'How to ask questions the smart way' by Eric Raymond - particularly everything from the 'Dealing with Rudeness' section).

In my opinion (as that is all I can offer without seeing some beta code for your project), your idea is far too ambitious, even if it sounds very simple. It's like using a hammer to crack open a nut - too much for such a simple issue. If people want a high-contrast mode, they can enable it easily using the add-on which already exists.

Of course, you are free to ignore all of our advice and suggestions. If you want to undertake the project as a learning experience, then go for it - I can only hope you realise that what you are perceiving as bitterness from some of us is, if anything, a plea to you to make your life easier by not undertaking a project like this.

I accept that you may not have much (if any) experience undertaking a project like this, and I am sincerely sorry that you feel I (or we) have been dismissive of your idea, but please try to understand that when you come to us with a question, and demonstrate that you haven't done even the most basic research to establish whether it is even possible in the first place - then you may well simply be lumped in with the 'cubytes' of this world. There is more to altering a web-page's colour scheme than simply flicking a switch. You could go about it simply by discarding everything but the text and links (which is basically what text-only browsers do, which leads to other problems such as missing menus etc), or you can go through and try to alter the colour scheme through other means, which I would suggest is a far more complex problem than you seem to think it is.

And finally - don't bother wasting money on this distributed IDE thing - just open a source-forge account. People who want to, and are capable of, contributing code to your project are likely to be experienced in things like SVN or CVS, and are comfortable using their own development tools to get by.

TL;DR: pay peanuts, get monkeys. If you are unwilling to get the project going without help from others (by doing your own research, finding out specifically what you need to do, etc.), then why do you expect anything other than dismissive responses? If you had come to us with some kind of plan, rather than a vague description of what you want to achieve, I imagine you would have received a much better response. It's no surprise that this thread has turned into what I can only describe as 'techno-philosophy'. Don't be turned off by this thread - simply work harder next time. Do your homework, get something more than 'this is what I want' together, then come and ask for help.

loganwm
August 18th, 2008, 11:47 AM
..
TL;DR: pay peanuts, get monkeys. If you are unwilling to get the project going without help from others (by doing your own research, finding out specifically what you need to do, etc.), then why do you expect anything other than dismissive responses? If you had come to us with some kind of plan, rather than a vague description of what you want to achieve, I imagine you would have received a much better response. It's no surprise that this thread has turned into what I can only describe as 'techno-philosophy'. Don't be turned off by this thread - simply work harder next time. Do your homework, get something more than 'this is what I want' together, then come and ask for help.

He does have a point, nothing sells someone on a concept faster than having a solid physical proof of concept. :)

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 03:04 PM
In response to the last two threads: Please understand that I have spent hours in firefox add-ons. I could have told you that but I was being yelled at for NOT LOOKING, and NOT RESEARCHING. This is not true. And everyone uses the forum for the same reason - to learn. I did not want to be repremanded for something I was in the middle of doing. I would be so much more disrespectful to expect everybody to do things. This was an idea that (since I have no friends with computers) I'd be willing to share with strangers who only want to get involved or share what they want. I wasn't begging for help. My offer was for you not me. I'm happy to learn the basics.

I assumed that I would create a range of color extending from both sides of the color being used for example, an orange would not be visable against the colors to red or the colors to green. and these colors I saw are expressed in (like you said) hexadecimal - example 12-4-19 is blue. so when a color range is too close to the contrasting color it will polarize itself to be opposite. What will change the font? or the background? what ever is least conflicting with the rest of the page.
the color scheme will be variable to the settings change you made. this program would just kick in when you change your settings.
TOday I'm looking for a class. I have two colleges in walking distance.
so I guess I really was in an off hand way looking for a mentor who would let me observe his practice. and working on a good idea of mine was the best way I could think of making it happen.

adamogardner
August 18th, 2008, 03:06 PM
He does have a point, nothing sells someone on a concept faster than having a solid physical proof of concept. :)

being so new to this I thought anything was possible. Especially something to do with color changes. but your saying this isn't true?

Tomosaur
August 18th, 2008, 03:58 PM
being so new to this I thought anything was possible. Especially something to do with color changes. but your saying this isn't true?

It is certainly possible. If your computer can produce colour, you can get it to change colours.

There's a difference between 'complexity' and 'difficulty'. Your idea is not particularly difficult in a technical sense, but it is fairly complicated, particularly if this is your first project. It is so much more than just changing colours - you need to understand how to parse HTML and CSS code, possibly even PHP or some other language depending on exactly how you go about it - and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

The technically difficult part is in working out how to let the computer decide which colours should go with which other colours. You may want to look at something like this (http://www.colorjack.com/) (click the 'software' link in the top right of the website to find the open-source stuff they've released) to see how to pick complimentary colours, but what you need is colours with enough contrast between each other to allow for easy reading. This requires more work than picking just complementary colours (certain shades of pink goes with certain shades of red, but the contrast between them may not be enough to allow pink text to be read easily on a red background).

pmasiar
August 18th, 2008, 04:21 PM
Please understand that I have spent hours in firefox add-ons. I could have told you that

Yes, you could - and you were supposed to.

Read "how to ask questions" in my sig - it is **your** responsibility to learn about the hacker culture.

We are trying to give you links, but it is **your** responsibility to follow then and read them. We don't need to - we did it long time ago, when we were as green as you are now. If you ignore the advice - even the advice you don't like and consider misplaced - you are making less interesting to others to help you.

And don't be too upset about mistakes: Everybody does mistakes. I still blush about how stupid my first post to usenet was.

But compared to you, I immediately apologized, instead of snapping... You have it rather easy here on UF, even if you don't understand and appreciate that.