Pirated Windows Software

[lumix700i]

I'm sorry if this topic already being posted (really really sorry for the bad English also)

I wonder how do exactly Microsoft handle piracy problems with their products. I mean, here in my city (Jogjakarta, Indonesia) it's common to see some shop rented pirated version of Vista or Office for a price not more than one dollar (for one day). Although the government already issue some laws about intellectual rights, it seems that Microsoft representative in Indonesia doesn't do a lot of legal activities such as product sweeping. They seem don't care that the majority of Microsoft software being used was illegal.

Is it some kind of marketing strategies? Because, if Microsoft really do software sweeping then I'm sure that 80% of people in my place will switch to open source software. They simply don't want to pay 200-300 dollars for a piece of software. Do you think Microsoft choose to let those people use pirated version of Microsoft products rather than see them using open source software? In my point of view, yes..

P.S. : Once I installed this pirated edition of Vista and guess what? It go pass through the Windows Genuine Check over the internet, and I was being able to download updates.. how weird is that..

[LaRoza]

Microsoft likes it when other countries (China in particular) pirate their software because they get hooked on it (while there are free alternatives) and will eventually give money to Microsoft.

Countries that can't afford Windows are getting hooked, and Linux is out there free and ready and Microsoft is laughing.

[TheSlipstream]

Hehe. Wine can run "Windows Genuine Advantage" and get it right. I've seen a couple of XPs that are found to be pirated. Very little happens, Microsoft just bans you from their Genuine Advantage, which is fairly useless anyway.

[jrharvey]

Bill Gates has said that he would rather a pirate use his software than someone else's. The reason for this is world domination. He wants to create a monopoly. Now, the case is quite different if someone is making money off his product. If you SELL Windows or Office illegally then they will come after you but if it is just for personal use then they probably wont do anything. They mainly go after they guys who are selling products in large quantities. There are just too many people to catch them all.

[kaboodle_fish]

My understanding, which may be slightly mis-aligned, is that Microsoft turn a blind eye to such activities because it gets people used to (and some would say locked in to) using Microsoft products and at some point in the future they will have to pay

edit: only 3 posts too late!

[jrharvey]

In the states they recently arrested a man for selling thousands of copies of microsoft software on Ebay. He made millions off of Microsoft pirated software.

[lumix700i]

Microsoft likes it when other countries (China in particular) pirate their software because they get hooked on it (while there are free alternatives) and will eventually give money to Microsoft.

Countries that can't afford Windows are getting hooked, and Linux is out there free and ready and Microsoft is laughing.

True, it is sad seeing my friends so proud of their Vista although they already know that they were using illegal software.. :(

One question, how come Microsoft will eventually get money from products piracy? Because I think the main reason people using illegal copies because they don't want to spend money buying legal software..

[BigSilly]

One question, how come Microsoft will eventually get money from products piracy? Because I think the main reason people using illegal copies because they don't want to spend money buying legal software..

Apparently, they're in the process of "figuring that out" to quote Bill Gates. Don't you worry, they'll come to collect somehow soon enough...

[kaboodle_fish]

One question, how come Microsoft will eventually get money from products piracy? Because I think the main reason people using illegal copies because they don't want to spend money buying legal software..

Something similar to embrace and extend, or try (with limits) before you buy

Customer uses something, likes it, get used to it, comes to rely on it and feels comfortable with it. Gets to a point where they want/need more and, like an addict, is prepared to pay whatever cost.

[Dremora]

Microsoft likes it when other countries (China in particular) pirate their software because they get hooked on it (while there are free alternatives) and will eventually give money to Microsoft.

Countries that can't afford Windows are getting hooked, and Linux is out there free and ready and Microsoft is laughing.

I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would bother pirating Vista (or buying it for that matter).

It's practically guaranteed that even if a crack does work, that Microsoft will eventually disable it, and most of those cracks are riddled with viruses anyway.

Why would someone torture themselves with all that crap............and then put up with Windows? :lolflag:

[LaRoza]

In the states they recently arrested a man for selling thousands of copies of microsoft software on Ebay. He made millions off of Microsoft pirated software.

That is in the States, not other countries ;) Remember, MS is in the USA.



One question, how come Microsoft will eventually get money from products piracy? Because I think the main reason people using illegal copies because they don't want to spend money buying legal software..

Well, a user of Windows just adds to the plans for world domination. I doubt your friends would be spending $150 US on Vista, so them using a pirated copy is just adding a user without losing a sale.

[Dremora]

I still think it's more like:

Microsoft relies on a functional legal system to take care of the problem.

Many countries don't care to burden what passes for their legal system.

Pirates get away with it.

[lumix700i]

In the states they recently arrested a man for selling thousands of copies of microsoft software on Ebay. He made millions off of Microsoft pirated software.
I think Microsoft ignorance of illegal software only happened in countries with weak economy backgrounds. Sure in the big country Microsoft will act quickly to prevent piracy activities, but in my place? Nope.. never hear someone being arrested for selling or renting illegal software.. Maybe they will take your laptops or computers, but you won't go to jail because using illegal softwares.

[jrharvey]

I will tell you something. As a student I pirated probably 30,000 dollars worth of software i NEEDED for school. I could barely afford to eat much less pay for all that software. I did not know about open source then and if i hadnt of found out i would probably be buying all that stuff today. Its much more risky using software like that in the buisness world. Luckily i found all this great stuff for free such as GIMP. Sure, i like photoshop better but not worth the $$$$

[jrharvey]

I think Microsoft ignorance of illegal software only happened in countries with weak economy backgrounds. Sure in the big country Microsoft will act quickly to prevent piracy activities, but in my place? Nope.. never hear someone being arrested for selling or renting illegal software.. Maybe they will take your laptops or computers, but you won't go to jail because using illegal softwares.

They wont arrest the people using it. If they arrest anyone it will be they guy selling all that stuff and making loads of money off it. BUT they probably wont do anything at all because its not their country.

[zmjjmz]

Here's how they make money off of it:
More people pirating = more people using = developers see better market = more proprietary applications = more paying customers locked in.

[lumix700i]

Well, a user of Windows just adds to the plans for world domination. I doubt your friends would be spending $150 US on Vista, so them using a pirated copy is just adding a user without losing a sale.

Even though Microsoft cut the price to $75 US, I don't think my friends will buy it.. :confused:

[Canis familiaris]

@Dremora
I can assure you that Microsoft will not try very hard to disable the cracks.

Just over a year ago I penned down my thoughts on my blog on this issue.

http://dogbuntu.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/how-piracy-hurts-open-source/

[Canis familiaris]

Even though Microsoft cut the price to $75 US, I don't think my friends will buy it.. :confused:

Exactly. People I know would not even buy Windows if it was offered for $10 (they get pirated version free or for $1)

[hufferd]

just one more reason to use Linux / Ubuntu :)

[lumix700i]

Here's how they make money off of it:
More people pirating = more people using = developers see better market = more proprietary applications = more paying customers locked in.
Problem is, pirated edition Vista came with pirated edition of proprietary software also..

It's a pitty that the main reason my friend using illegal software because they don't really have that choice.. Most of the people I've known doesn't even know that there is other operating system beside Windows..

[zmjjmz]

The proprietary software vendors (Adobe, Quicken, etc.) probably care more about piracy than MS, and will likely do their worst to ensure it dies off.

[lumix700i]

I don't see any difference in my place.. People keep using illegal software freely without knowing that there is legal alternatives for them, the open source software.

[Dremora]

@Dremora
I can assure you that Microsoft will not try very hard to disable the cracks.

Just over a year ago I penned down my thoughts on my blog on this issue.

http://dogbuntu.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/how-piracy-hurts-open-source/

They've usually only been a few weeks behind new versions of the cracks, they hide the "bomb" in something masquerading as a real update.

Of course, Windows just annoys you and takes away your wallpaper if you steal it now, so I suppose if you're hard up for cash, it's preferable to nothing.

Not that I advoate piracy of Microsoft software, because when you pirate Windows nobody wins, Microsoft doesn't get paid, and you get Windows. :P

[Canis familiaris]

Not that I advoate piracy of Microsoft software, because when you pirate Windows nobody wins, Microsoft doesn't get paid, and you get Windows. :P
No actually MS does gain:

Microsoft know where their strengths lie. In putting the majority under the technological dependence on them, Microsoft are playing on the fact that if the absolute majority is dependent on their technology then they can engulf huge profits through corporate and technical endorsements. In this process they can reassure them they have the army of potential consumers who would otherwise have gone to the opposite end to the world of Linux and Open Source.

[lumix700i]

I think Microsoft get some winning points from pirated Windows, at least they succeed in programming -there is no OS other than Windows- mindsets.

[Canis familiaris]

I think Microsoft get some winning points from pirated Windows, at least they succeed in programming -there is no OS other than Windows- mindsets.
Exactly

[lumix700i]

And the most clever part of 'Microsoft ignorance' is they get some powerfull but free marketing agents for their products such as schools. In Indonesia, the top priority for education program is to promote computer technologies for children.. And guess what operating system that being used..?

[BlueSkyNIS]

I'm sorry if this topic already being posted (really really sorry for the bad English also)

I wonder how do exactly Microsoft handle piracy problems with their products. I mean, here in my city (Jogjakarta, Indonesia) it's common to see some shop rented pirated version of Vista or Office for a price not more than one dollar (for one day). Although the government already issue some laws about intellectual rights, it seems that Microsoft representative in Indonesia doesn't do a lot of legal activities such as product sweeping. They seem don't care that the majority of Microsoft software being used was illegal.

Is it some kind of marketing strategies? Because, if Microsoft really do software sweeping then I'm sure that 80% of people in my place will switch to open source software. They simply don't want to pay 200-300 dollars for a piece of software. Do you think Microsoft choose to let those people use pirated version of Microsoft products rather than see them using open source software? In my point of view, yes..

P.S. : Once I installed this pirated edition of Vista and guess what? It go pass through the Windows Genuine Check over the internet, and I was being able to download updates.. how weird is that..

This is the same case here in Serbia, even some government institutions use pirated Windows. In some shops you can buy computers with preinstalled Windows (Vista and XP) and bunch of pirated expensive software like Office 2007, Adobe Premiere, Photoshop, Reader, Winamp Pro, Nero, Cyberlink DVD player...and much more :(

[Canis familiaris]

This is the same case here in Serbia, even some government institutions use pirated Windows. In some shops you can buy computers with preinstalled Windows (Vista and XP) and bunch of pirated expensive software like Office 2007, Adobe Premiere, Photoshop, Reader, Winamp Pro, Nero, Cyberlink DVD player...and much more :(

Worse people dont know that software is pirated and are oblivious to the fact that they are actually breaking a law.

[lumix700i]

@Anurag_panda
Agree. It's like when I'm having a conversation with my friends:

My friends: hey, what OS is that
me : This is ubuntu
My friends : Why do you use ubuntu instead of windows?
me : because it's free..
My friends : Hey, my Vista is also free .. just copied from my friends..
me : (DOH!)

[Canis familiaris]

@Anurag_panda
Agree. It's like when I'm having a conversation with my friends:

My friends: hey, what OS is that
me : This is ubuntu
My friends : Why do you use ubuntu instead of windows?
me : because it's free..
My friends : Hey, my Vista is also free .. just copied from my friends..
me : (DOH!)

May I know when did you speak to my friends? :lolflag:

[fiddledd]

There's other possible reasons why Microsoft doesn't care about piracy.

1) Each new Windows version needs newer hardware.
2) Even if you run a pirated version of Windows you still need hardware to run it on.
3) You can't pirate hardware, you have to buy it.
4) Microsoft and hardware manufacturers have an understanding.:)

I have no evidence of any of this, and I'm sure it is complete nonsense. (that should keep the lawyers away :))

[cespinal]

Pirate sofware in my country is as popular as going to the market to get some groceries... Pirate sellers have their own stores at malls!

And as you say in the first post, pirated copies here a totally cracked! They even go through updates and genuine software scans, and thats the same for AutoCad, Nero, Antivirus suites and almost every popular package I know.

In closing, money is certainly not a point of inflection when choosing between Open or Closed Source software in countries were against-piracy law enforcement is unexistant.

[Dremora]

It's obvious that Microsoft doesn't like countries of people pirating Windows, their problem is that this Windows Starter Edition is was too limited (only allows 3 running programs with a graphical interface, nothing faster than a 2 Ghz Pentium 4, no advanced stuff at all, and definitely no more than a gig of RAM.

That's still too expensive for some poorer countries, even at $20 (US Dollars), some people don't make $20 in an entire month.

The only way Microsoft could ever compete with the pirates or Linux is to either give something like Vista Basic away, or charge $3 for it.

They won't do that though, and until they can spread for free like Linux, they *WILL* lose, they're competing with Linux and Pirate Windows, and Vista's antipiracy system is vicious, this is why more people in China, Africa, etc. are using Linux.

I know if I made a product and someone copied it verbatim, I'd be pissed, but Microsoft has three equally bad choices here:

Let everyone go to Linux

Remove antipiracy stuff and turn a blind eye

Sell the full thing, not the Starter version, for $3

I do like Microsoft's "charity" tagline:

"We give away MILLIONS of dollars worth of software every year"

This makes three assumptions:

That software is worth money

That they are losing anything more than the discs in giving it away

That their software is wanted, or needed

[zmjjmz]

If they don't make 20$ a month, how can they afford a computer and an internet connection?

[Dremora]

If they don't make 20$ a month, how can they afford a computer and an internet connection?

Wasteful people in the west usually "recycle" their computers, some interesting stuff ends up in China or Africa, or wherever the crap ends up, there's even a market for "unformatted hard drives" ;)

Seeing as how XP will run on a Pentium 2 300 with 64 or 128 megs of RAM, I'm sure quite a few computers with those specs or better turn up there.

You're just not thinking like these people do, they scavenge stuff we throw out, and are ecstatic about getting it too!

[lumix700i]

Actually, in my place, it is normal to have laptops or computers, and yes, they get more than 20$ a month. But this is not the point, the point is that (in my place) people didn't realize that their using pirated products. Of course the academic (students, teacher) and bussiness community aware about this, but they simply don't care.
As for internet, it is not common to have internet connection here, people usually go to internet cafe to access the internet.

[Dremora]

Actually, in my place, it is normal to have laptops or computers, and yes, they get more than 20$ a month. But this is not the point, the point is that (in my place) people didn't realize that their using pirated products. Of course the academic (students, teacher) and bussiness community aware about this, but they simply don't care.
As for internet, it is not common to have internet connection here, people usually go to internet cafe to access the internet.

I'm not trying to be offensive.

But my point is, that this is like those $100 laptops, $100 might be a terrible burden to come up with in the places they came up with those for, but here, it's nothing to see a decent laptop go for $800-$1,000, with Vista Premium or whatever, and a lot of people think nothing about paying such a price.

The PC recycling industry is a hoax, most of the hardware sent to them ends up for sale on a local gray market somewhere.

[zmjjmz]

Slightly OT question, but how much do they charge at those cafes?
I always imagined they were free and the owner got money from selling coffee or something, but I was disproven in Canada where it was 3$/hour to use a ****** IE6 based locked down kiosk browser.

(I found a way around that though :D)

[L815]

Some of my professors at college and their students knowingly joke around how half the class if not more used pirated software.

Then they set something up where we got most of the products (visual studio 2008, Sql Server, etc...) for free.

Now we joke about how we USED to pirate, how Linux is getting much better, and that the new guys are most likely still pirating LOL

[Dremora]

Slightly OT question, but how much do they charge at those cafes?
I always imagined they were free and the owner got money from selling coffee or something, but I was disproven in Canada where it was 3$/hour to use a ****** IE6 based locked down kiosk browser.

(I found a way around that though :D)

I know this wasn't for me, but there's a few Starbucks around here.

All you have to do is user agent spoof your copy of Firefox to say it's Safari on an Apple iPhone and you get unlimited free internet there.

I sometimes go there, the $5 "Venti Mocha Chocolate thingy" is a lot sweeter with free wifi. :P

[Dremora]

Some of my professors at college and their students knowingly joke around how half the class if not more used pirated software.

Then they set something up where we got most of the products (visual studio 2008, Sql Server, etc...) for free.

Now we joke about how we USED to pirate, how Linux is getting much better, and that the new guys are most likely still pirating LOL

Microsoft has a student program in the United States to give college students cheap/free Microsoft products.

I've gotten XP, Vista, Office XP, 2003, and 2007 for $5 per disc, you're allowed one copy each year you attend.

I figure that it's worth more than five bucks to someone. :popcorn:

[zmjjmz]

I know this wasn't for me, but there's a few Starbucks around here.

All you have to do is user agent spoof your copy of Firefox to say it's Safari on an Apple iPhone and you get unlimited free internet there.

I sometimes go there, the $5 "Venti Mocha Chocolate thingy" is a lot sweeter with free wifi. :P

Huh.
I have an iPod Touch, and I don't get free internets D: (guess the UAS is different)
I'll have to try that sometime though. Do you know what the name of the string is?

[aysiu]

The PC recycling industry is a hoax, most of the hardware sent to them ends up for sale on a local gray market somewhere. Not always:
http://www.accrc.org/

[Dremora]

The dirty little secret of the NHS recycling program. (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/moslive/article-1033832/The-Dirty-Secret-Your-NHS.html)

"Under the pretense of recycling, NHS computers have been dumped in Ghana, where their hard drives are mined of your confidential data by criminal gangs... while children die melting down the highly toxic empty shells. Special Live investigation by Jonathan Green"

[aysiu]

All I said was "not always." I didn't say it doesn't happen. I just said it doesn't always happen. Read the link I posted.

[phrostbyte]

I really really wish Microsoft would crack down on piracy. This would be VERY GOOD for Linux.

[ODF]

I used pirated windows since win95. Where I live ... the federal police gave up about pirated softwares.

But since these day there's so many pre-installed windows computers I even have two legal windows vista.

Everyone has a laptop ... People are using them as desktop too. I mean, it's not like the old time hehe.

Sorry for the bad english :mad:


I really really wish Microsoft would crack down on piracy. This would be VERY GOOD for Linux.

Well, as an Arch linux user and a linux lover I have to say that ... sadly, linux is really not for everyone. If someone wants linux it's because he really is aware about it's existance. If that person doesn't want to know more about it, even if windows cracks down on piracy ... he will buy windows instead of learning linux.

[mahela007]

In a windows update is accidentaly got the genuine validation tool. Ofcourse my system wasnt genuine (the OS came preinstalled) so now i get a message that takes 5 seconds to display the close button everytime at boot up. therefore it takes me 5 seconds longer to boot up the system (which is a very long time if you are in a hurry an need to get somethin done quickly. we all know how frustrating it can be to have a long boot up time.)

[mahela007]

Well, as an Arch linux user and a linux lover I have to say that ... sadly, linux is really not for everyone. If someone wants linux it's because he really is aware about it's existance. If that person doesn't want to know more about it, even if windows cracks down on piracy ... he will buy windows instead of learning linux.

I have to agree with odf on that point. Most of the time people who are so used to Windows are reluctant to make the switch to linux because there are some minor differences.

[Dremora]

Well, as an Arch linux user and a linux lover I have to say that ... sadly, linux is really not for everyone. If someone wants linux it's because he really is aware about it's existance. If that person doesn't want to know more about it, even if windows cracks down on piracy ... he will buy windows instead of learning linux.

People are creatures of habit, as long as what they're used to keeps working for them, they'll do it.

If Microsoft clamped down on unlicensed copying, and everyone on the planet running unlicensed Windows was forced to pay them at least $100 to keep using their PC, there would be some more Linux users,

Not just over the $100, but it also makes people more aware of just how stupid and arbitrary a EULA can be, in that if Microsoft can lock you out of your computer once, they can do it again if they want more money later.

[BGFG]

As wonderful as linux is It still makes you think. Many pc users just can't deal with that (too much effort) So Microsoft it is.
Also i'm from the caribbean, many people here don't even know what a linux is and if they do the stigma is still attached that you have to be an uber-geek to use it. The problem to a large extent is marketing, people just don't know that linux exists.

As for world domination, i don't think that MS simply ignors piracy to monopolise the market but also think of all that bandwith activity when you are neither surfing nor updating.

The packets have to be going somewhere.

[saratchandra]

Piracy is not the word:roll:

[lumix700i]

... sadly, linux is really not for everyone

In contrary, I think Linux just perfect for my friends. A lot of them used pirated windows just for basic application such as listening mp3's or watching movies or do standard office works (typing, making presentation etc) which I found can be easily replaced by Linux. Even more, they don't have to worry over virus problem. In my place, local virus is a serious threat because it can do serious damage, they spread using flashdisk (which is highly popular) as a medium, and even with updated antivirus programs sometimes the virus can go undetected.

[lumix700i]

the stigma is still attached that you have to be an uber-geek to use it

I read a lot of post saying that people don't want to use linux because they were afraid people will call them geek. The funny thing is, in my place, geek is cool (really!!). People with knowledge about hardware and software being considered as popular, easy to get a girlfriend type.. And no, they do not wear funny clothes, silly haircut, or thick glasses. They wear funky clothing, using cool gadgets, and driving cool cars.. Oh yeah,that goes to smart students also.. My personal experience prove this... :)

[PryGuy]

in contrary, i think linux just perfect for my friends. A lot of them used pirated windows just for basic application such as listening mp3's or watching movies or do standard office works (typing, making presentation etc) which i found can be easily replaced by linux. Even more, they don't have to worry over virus problem. In my place, local virus is a serious threat because it can do serious damage, they spread using flashdisk (which is highly popular) as a medium, and even with updated antivirus programs sometimes the virus can go undetected.+1