Laptop choice: "stinkpad" T400 vs "hell" E6400

[Miguel]

Hello everybody,

I'm replacing my aging Dell Inspiron 8600 as soon as possible. It's not that it doesn't work well, which it does, but it's getting a bit long in the teeth. This is especially true considering I sometimes run some nice calculations on my computer, which would massively benefit from multi-core 64bit processors. The specs of my old machine are: 15.4" WXGA screen, 1.7GHz Pentium-M (2MB cache), 512Mb ram, 60Gb HD and an ATi Mobility Radeon 9600 with 128 Mb VRAM.

Given that I want something much faster, much lighter, with better battery life, and with a much higher build quality has left me with the aforementioned options: a Lenovo Thinkpad T400 and a Dell Latitude E6400. Both are "thin and light" (not too thin, but weigh 2.15 kg with a 6cell battery and a CD-ROM, less than a MacBook) with a 14" screen. I'm especially interested in getting the P9500 processor (maybe it's T) because of the increased cache but 25W of TDP. I'm also interested in at least a 1440*900 LED screen.

Pros of the Dell E6400 Cheaper. I can get a nice set up now for 1200€. This includes all hardware requirements.
I can order it now in Spain.
It will hardly need 1.5 months to get home (time reported by users in notebookreview.com )
Slightly better looking IMHO.
The Ctrl key is where it should be, in the bottom left corner.
The touchpad has a third button, which is very useful in Linux.
Easy to get in Spain, and maybe I'll get a deal through University
The P9500 is available here, while the thinkpad makes me choose between 3Mb cache P8000 parts or 35Watts T9000 parts


Pros of the Thinkpad It's a thinkpad. The Dell may have a magnesium alloy, but thinkpads are *tough*
The keyboard has worldwide fame (I'm not unsatisfied with my current keyboard, but I hate the Sony laptop keyboards and dislike Apple's). I'll type a lot.
Hybrid graphics with an ATi (this is mostly useless with nVidia, since their driver replaces so much stuff). I'd support both Intel and ATi for their OSS efforts. If I have to choose, tough, I'll go Intel.
Known reliability, plus tons of connectivity options (I only need bluetooth and 802.11g, though)
The thinkwiki for linux stuff
I originally wanted the thinkpad


So what's your oppinion? Is the wait for the thinkpad worth it? Please take into account that I'm leaving to Switzerland in September and this would mean that November is the soonest I can get the laptop.

EDIT: Forgot about the Control Key on the T400

[tamoneya]

i strongly recommend the thinkpad. The only thing that makes me hesitant is the availability of the thinkpad in spain which I really cant comment on. As long as you dont have a dire need for it I would wait for the thinkpad.

[conundrumx]

T61p here, love it. Thinkpad all the way.

[abgemacht]

I currently have a T60p running Hardy and a X61t. I love them both.

The T60p was extremely easy to configure and anything that wasn't obvious, I figured out pretty easily from http://thinkwiki.org (and of course, this site)

I'm pretty new to linux and the lenovo/ubuntu combination was great for me.

[cardinals_fan]

Thinkpad > * > Dell

I hate Dells :)

EDIT: Post #888!

[K.Mandla]

I've owned both Dells and Thinkpads. I've had good luck with Dell's service, so that would be the reason for me to pick a new Dell.

However, if I'm buying secondhand and service or repair plans aren't a consideration, I'd take a Thinkpad any day. :D

[Miguel]

OK, thanks for your answers. I'll wait for the first real reviews to appear for both laptops and then I'll make a choice. It seems most people here agree that the wait for the T400 should be worth it. I'm sorry for being so doubtful, but having to wait two months for the Thinkpad is somewhat off-putting.

By the way, what happened to Flexview screens? I'd love to have an S-IPS screen (or S-PVA) on a notebook, but it seems only MacBook Pros have currently non-TN screens.

[Miguel]

I'm not so sure of getting the Thinkpad now. A first look (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4557) at notebookreview.com stated that the T400 keyboard flexes much more than the one in the T60 (according to the forum posts they have changed a metal plate for a plastic one for liquid draining and this shows) and the hybrid graphics switching is all software and Vista only. It doesn't work in XP, so I fear it's useless in Linux.

EDIT: Added first look link

[Bachstelze]

I'm personnally very happy with my Asux ;)

[RiceMonster]

My Dell works really well, but I've never really tried a thinkpad. My friend has one and hates it, but I wouldn't listen to him. They must be tough because he treats it like crap, throws it on the ground, etc, and it still works fine.

[mips]

I'm not so sure of getting the Thinkpad now. A first look (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4557) at notebookreview.com stated that the T400 keyboard flexes much more than the one in the T60 (according to the forum posts they have changed a metal plate for a plastic one for liquid draining and this shows) and the hybrid graphics switching is all software and Vista only. It doesn't work in XP, so I fear it's useless in Linux.

EDIT: Added first look link

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4557

Another odd trait I noticed was additional flex on the right side of the keyboard, where my T60 is solid as a rock, but the T400 wants to give in just a bit. It is still very strong compared to other notebooks, but not as rock solid as the older model.

[Miguel]

Thanks for the exact quote Mips. It's just that I'm two-faced right now. The consumer in me wants my new laptop right here and right now. The Hamlet in me is just doubting forever because a part of me won't be happy unless I purchase the perfect notebook. But somewhere inside myself I want a Stinkpad. Bloody doubt!

To buy or not to buy, that is the question


I'm personnally very happy with my Asux ;)

What model is your Asux?

[mips]

The consumer in me wants my new laptop right here and right now.

I know the feeling ;) Like a kid with money burning a hole in your pocket springs to mind.

[eeejay]

Well for what it is worth, I placed an order for a T400 a week ago.
And, yeah I can't wait either.

I have been casually browsing the usual sites looking for something to replace my Fujitsu Lifebook S7110 which I love, but it is showing age. It is less than 5 lbs, and has a "14 display, I carry it everywhere.

Anyway the new T400 caught my eye, it has similar dimensions, and I always wanted a discrete graphics card, but I didn't want to deal with flaky binary drivers. But the T400 seems to be a Linux user's dream, it doesn't have one Open Source supported graphics chip, it has two!

Sure, the on-the-fly switching probably won't work at first in Linux, but give it a year, and someone will provide a patch for that. For now, you could set which chipset to use in the BIOS. The Radeon HD driver is not feature-complete, but I could wait a while for that too, and use fglrx for the occasional game.

Also about the price: I paid $2,100 two years ago for a high-end Lifebook. I placed an order with a coupon on the 12th of August for a mid to high end configuration of the T400, it came out to $1,350. After carefully reading the forum posts in notebookreview, I was able to to shave off $350 from the original order via Lenovo's price protection policy! So I am getting a brand new (ie. just released model) laptop, with a decent config for half the price I paid last time.

After I sell my old laptop the margin will be even smaller. But I will wait until I have a T400 in my hands before I start jumping up and down in celebration.

So the wait is long, but I can't wait to get my Stinkpad!

[wubrgamer]

just curious, how compatible is the t400 with linux? I don't want to purchase a t400 if it isn't going to work seamlessly with ubuntu

[Muxxxa]

just curious, how compatible is the t400 with linux? I don't want to purchase a t400 if it isn't going to work seamlessly with ubuntu

got myself a brand new shiny T400 few days ago. So far I'm quite pleased with it - nice keyboard, LCD, grafik. Very cool, silent and the 9 cell holds the aprox.8hours of surfing with WLAN as promised. The minuses described in some rewies have also confirmed - a far sticking out battery and some flexes on the right side of the keyboard and a bit on the front pannel, but not on the keyboard itself! THE KEYBOARD DOES NOT FLEX!!! So that has been either a lie or a misunderstanding.. =)
Hopefully I'll get to test it's compatibility with ubuntu on this weekend and will write something about that if anyone is still interested.

[SDNick484]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but my Dell Latitude D610 just died tonight and these two models have caught my eye (this is the first thing that comes up by googling "T400 E6400"). They have obviously been out for quite some time, and I'm leaning towards picking up a refurbished T400, but any opinions would be greatly appreciated. I previously had an IBM T21 (ran Fedora Core 1 & 2) and was quite impressed, however I haven't owned a Stinkpad in 4.5 years so I'm curious how they are now that it's fully transitioned to Lenovo.

If anyone has suggestions for other 14" laptops in the same class as the Dell Latitude or Lenovo T line, I'd be glad to hear about those too.

[Miguel]

I finally got a T400 and I'm pretty happy with it. It's my first stinkpad, though, so I can't comment on quality change from older models. It feels quite sturdy on my hands, although older models could have been tougher.

All in all, it's got an average matte screen (very bright if you get the LED backlit one), a brilliant keyboard (recent T400 even have a sturdier keyboard) and performance is very good. It has been pretty easy to get ubuntu to work in this machine, too (no hybrid graphics or fingerprint reader).

Other business 14" laptop you may want to check is the HP Elitebook 6930p. I hate the brushed metal look, though. It's true, however, that business HP laptops are fine machines.

[robertp999]

I have a T400 running Jaunty amd64, dual booting with vista x64. It installed well out of the box -- everything seems to be working. Definitely get the LED backlit version -- it has a beautiful screen. Build quality is very solid, and I've noticed little if any keyboard flex. The machine runs very cool, which I like. You will need to disable switchable graphics in the BIOS if you have get this feature.

Also, I suggest going to thinkpads.com, since you may get coupon codes to save quite a bit of $ vs lenovo.com prices. I saved about $300 vs a comparable Dell E6400 with a coupon. Check out thinkwiki.com for details concerning linux installs on thinkpads.

[Miguel]

The machine runs very cool, which I like.

Oh, yes! How could I forget it? The T400 is one the coolest laptops I've seen. Run on the Intel GPU and set hdparm to about 230 and behold a cool laptop.

[SDNick484]

Thanks for the responses! I ended up ordering a T400 although I didn't get the LED screen (all the models that had them put them above my price range). I ended up getting the higher resolution version, WXGA+, (1440x900) since I'm coming from a SXGA+ (1400x1050). I'm very glad to hear this laptop runs cool, the D610 I'm replacing wasn't bad but the front left side could get quite hot (and I have a feeling that's directly correlated with why it died). The D610 ran Gentoo x86, although I may throw Jaunty amd64 on the T400 (I have a Jaunty media center right now).