emesene instead of pidgin?

[Choad]

http://www.emesene.org/

just found this and it seems very very nice. my reaction is immediately that this would make a better default client than pidgin

can't imagine many people will see the logic behind choosing a technically inferior client but i thought i'd make a thread about it

[SunnyRabbiera]

But it covers only one client last time I checked.

[Choad]

yeah, but is it really that hard to install 1 extra app when you set it up how you like on first install? this is about first impressions, and i feel pidgin gives a bad first impression. it's too complicated imo.

[NovaAesa]

While emesene is great for MSN (I use it all the time), it is great for only MSN. There are some parts of the world where MSN is used almost exclusively (like Australia), but there are other places where it isn't used as much. The default app must be able to accommodate to everyone's needs.

[magnus0]

I like Pidgin, because it's simple and fast. It's not bloated, but it has all the features I need.

[Joeb454]

The CD is pretty full as it is. Though if you want to install it then emesene is in the repo's :)

You can install it by running
sudo apt-get install emesene or by clicking emesene (apt://emesene) ;)

[cespinal]

Jump in!!!! emesene is a way better program... im still waiting for it to have webcam support... but that is on the way

[master5o1]

Pidgin: 15 IM protocols (not separating Google Talk and XMPP) that include AIM, YIM, MSN, XMPP, etc.

Emesene: 1 IM protocol, MSN.


One program that does it all without clogging up your arteries (ram/disk space) is a lot better than multiple programs that only do one each.
Considering that Pidgin is going to have Audio/Video plugins in the near future (SoC project) I think it is probably that by 9.04 we will have Pidgin with our Audio/Video capabilities.

[ubuntu27]

Well, there is a proposal to replace pidgin with a client called Empathy for the next version of Ubuntu (Intrepid)

Info here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=885548

[ThrobbingBrain66]

yeah, but is it really that hard to install 1 extra app when you set it up how you like on first install? this is about first impressions, and i feel pidgin gives a bad first impression. it's too complicated imo.

Your logic works against you here as well as for you. Is it really that hard to install emesene when you are setting things up? Besides only supporting a signal protocol, there is no way that emesene is less complicated than pidgin. Pidgin is a very solid multi-protocol internet messenger...even if it isn't all that flashy.

[ubuntu27]

pidgin should not be replace by emsene.

I agree that emesene is a wonderful instant messaging application, but it only supports one protocol.

Since a lot of people uses UBuntu Linux around the world, it s necesary to acomodates to their necesities. Not every part of the world uses MSN. There are countries or cities where Yahoo! is more popular. Other still uses ICQ.


Almost off-topic: What do you guys think of "Empathy" - the IM that might replace pidgin?

[bp1509]

d

[Superkoop]

emesene would be a bad replacement for Pidgin. Ubuntu does need an all-around program for IM, but honestly, I don't much like it. I use aMSN for all of my IMing, since it has most of the features of the regular MSN. And then when aMSN 2.0 is finished, we will be getting native GNOME/KDE/E17/etc support for it!
If we ever want to have perfect support for each protocal, we will need seperate apps, taking care of 15 is just too many; one is difficult enough.

[FlyingIsFun1217]

Personally, I'd love to see Pidgin replaced with Carrier and the WLM msn protocol patch.

FlyingIsFun1217

[CloudFX]

There's actually a big talk on the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list right now about switching Pidgin with Empathy. I personally don't like it, but we'll see what happens.

[mrgnash]

yeah, but is it really that hard to install 1 extra app when you set it up how you like on first install? this is about first impressions, and i feel pidgin gives a bad first impression. it's too complicated imo.

Pidgin is not too complicated at all. And what sort of impression would a client which only supports the proprietary MSN transport being installed as the default instant messaging application on a Linux distribution? An atrocious one, is the answer -- in case you were wondering.

For what it does, Emesene is a great app, but unlike Pidgin, it does not support open networks such Jabber/XMPP/Google Talk, which are far closer to the Ubuntu ethos than MSN.

[Lexicon101]

pidgin should not be replace by emsene.

I agree that emesene is a wonderful instant messaging application, but it only supports one protocol.

Since a lot of people uses UBuntu Linux around the world, it s necesary to acomodates to their necesities. Not every part of the world uses MSN. There are countries or cities where Yahoo! is more popular. Other still uses ICQ.


Almost off-topic: What do you guys think of "Empathy" - the IM that might replace pidgin?

If Empathy supports video chat on MSN, I'll be for it. But really, aMSN is fine for me, I don't use other IM protocols. I only talk to one person on IM... And that's because calling AU is ridiculously expensive.

[Polygon]

but it doesnt. empathy supports almost no protocols compared to pidgin. Empathy is not even close to being mature enough to be considered to replace pidgin. But it 'does' emulate libpurple....but if we are going to emulate libpurple, why not just use it naively?

that, and the 'awesome' features people claim empathy will have are really really far off. For the time being, i think pidgin should stay. Ill re-evaluate when empathy supports more then a handful of protocols

and if you think pidgin is too complicated....

[Diabolis]

Pidgin its a bit difficult. At home I am the only one that uses it because for most people the way you have to set up accounts is not very straightforward. That would be my only complaint about Pidgin.

What I like of emesene is its look and feel and it has better plugins, but yeah technically speaking it sucks and it still have too many bugs. At least one very annoying, sometimes it won't let you log in, while pidgin will do it very quick.

[Choad]

edit: ffs why no quote by default!?!? this is @ "i bet you're from europe or aus" (i'm in uk)

i didn't realise it was split geographically like that. i agree with the argument that using a single (MS) protocol by default would look ridiculous.

but for sure, here in the UK *everyone* uses msn. msn and facebook is everywhere. and those are 2 things that in many ways aren't up to scratch on a default ubuntu box. fb lags firefox like a bitch, and pidgin lacks many of the features of WLM/MSN.

[steeleyuk]

pidgin lacks many of the features of WLM/MSN

What? Like winks and nudges, the two biggest reasons not to install WLM in my opinion. They're for me the stupidest 'features' I've ever seen in software and they only cater to teenage girls.

Apart from Audio/Video, the only thing I think its really missing is the secondary display name thing that WLM has, though Pidgin should include that once the protocol version is updated.

I can't think of too many other things that are missing.

[tuxxy]

Does pidgin support webcams yet

[Choad]

and offline messaging and "folder sharing" and just the feel of it, it's way better for people coming from msn+windows pcs

tbh i don't even know how many features emesene has of the wlm features... but i know it's likely to become feature complete far sooner than pidgin...

[bp1509]

d

[Superkoop]

[...] but i know it's likely to become feature complete far sooner than pidgin...

Actually, I would gander a guess that aMSN will become feature complete FAR sooner than Emesene, considering nearly all of Emesene's devs are now working for aMSN.
http://emesene.org/smf/index.php/topic,1248.0.html
http://www.amsn-project.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5299

[steeleyuk]

and offline messaging and "folder sharing" and just the feel of it, it's way better for people coming from msn+windows pcs

Offline messaging should come with the new protocol version.

[Mazza558]

Wasn't aMSN going to merge with emesene in the near future?

It'd be great if Pidgin could provide all the MSN functionality that emesene and aMSN have.

[bp1509]

d

[FlyingIsFun1217]

though Pidgin should include that once the protocol version is updated.

Which for anyone wondering, should be within the next 389 years.

FlyingIsFun1217

[steeleyuk]

Its supposed to have been a 2007 SoC project though the code that was produced was apparently not up to scratch. So somebody else worked on it and it was due to be included for a version recently. Though the devs still didn't think it was good enough to include by default.

However, if you download and compile Pidgin, there is an option for the new MSN protocol. I tried it but there were still problems with logging in.

That being said, its close to being included by default apparently. As for where I know read all this, I can't remember.

[RiceMonster]

What? Like winks and nudges, the two biggest reasons not to install WLM in my opinion. They're for me the stupidest 'features' I've ever seen in software and they only cater to teenage girls.

Pidgin doesn't support personal messages, custom emoticons, or have that "now playing" thing, like emesene does and all of which I use. I'll admit, custom emoticons aren't that important though, but I really like having the other two features.

If I was using multiple protocols, I'd be using pidgin, because it's a good IM client, but since I only use MSN, it makes more sense to use something with some more features. Emesene has the features I want and doesn't hurt my eyes like aMSN. However, I think Pidgin is a much better choice to be in the default Ubuntu installation because it's able to serve many people's needs (multiple protocols), where as emesene isn't.

[steeleyuk]

You can add the Now Playing thing with a plugin, though the name of it escapes me. I had a DEB of it somewhere...

Edit: http://code.google.com/p/musictracker/

[Superkoop]

Wasn't aMSN going to merge with emesene in the near future?

It'd be great if Pidgin could provide all the MSN functionality that emesene and aMSN have.

Nope, aMSN and Emesene are going to stay separate projects, it's just aMSN will be using emesene's GTK GUI.

And to everyone saying Pidgin will be able to do this all one day...IT WON'T!
If you haven't noticed, MSN, Yahoo, AIM, etc, all are constantly changing. And when you have to take care of 15 changing protocols, all of them changing randomly, it's just not possible to make sure all of them are up to snuff always.
Pidgin will always be behind, and will always have problems with stuff. It will stay a nice general IM program for users, being able to do the primary things like chat with text and smileys, change avatars, maybe someday do file transfers without bugging out so much. But it will never have the latest features, and it will never be able to do all them like the official clients.

Pidgin is fine for people who want to do a lot of things, but only do them in a mediocre fashion.

Me on the other hand, when I want something done, I want it done right.

[VitaLiNux]

But it covers only one client last time I checked.
'nuff said... :KS:KS:KS:KS:KS

[VitaLiNux]

Pidgin doesn't support personal messages, custom emoticons, or have that "now playing" thing, like emesene does and all of which I use. I'll admit, custom emoticons aren't that important though, but I really like having the other two features.

If I was using multiple protocols, I'd be using pidgin, because it's a good IM client, but since I only use MSN, it makes more sense to use something with some more features. Emesene has the features I want and doesn't hurt my eyes like aMSN. However, I think Pidgin is a much better choice to be in the default Ubuntu installation because it's able to serve many people's needs (multiple protocols), where as emesene isn't.
Hey, it DOES support custom emoticons. I consider Pidgin a good software because of its basic features.

[estyles]

I know this is repeating a little, but... this seems like a crazy idea. If emesene doesn't support AIM, then it's not a replacement for pidgin. Nearly as important for it to support Yahoo and ICQ. And the other protocols supported by pidgin are just gravy. I had no idea that MSN messenger was actually used heavily in *any* part of the world, I always thought of Trillian and pidgin as replacements for AIM that happened to also support some other random protocols that crazy people used... ;)

And I found pidgin to be crazy easy to setup. My wife, who I use as my example of the naive Ubuntu user, only needed instruction to "start up pidgin so I can talk to you without yelling", and was online in about 5 minutes. Of course, I had her install Trillian as well back in the days when we both used Windows, with similar instruction, so she's had a little experience with it. But I'd say Trillian was actually more difficult to setup and didn't support as many protocols.

[Choad]

I know this is repeating a little, but... this seems like a crazy idea. If emesene doesn't support AIM, then it's not a replacement for pidgin. Nearly as important for it to support Yahoo and ICQ. And the other protocols supported by pidgin are just gravy. I had no idea that MSN messenger was actually used heavily in *any* part of the world, I always thought of Trillian and pidgin as replacements for AIM that happened to also support some other random protocols that crazy people used... ;)

And I found pidgin to be crazy easy to setup. My wife, who I use as my example of the naive Ubuntu user, only needed instruction to "start up pidgin so I can talk to you without yelling", and was online in about 5 minutes. Of course, I had her install Trillian as well back in the days when we both used Windows, with similar instruction, so she's had a little experience with it. But I'd say Trillian was actually more difficult to setup and didn't support as many protocols.
it is the default messaging network of windows. how could it be less than massive?

[estyles]

it is the default messaging network of windows. how could it be less than massive?

Because it is pre-dated by AIM and ICQ, neither of which has given any reason to be deprecated. And because Yahoo! Messenger is the default messaging network of Yahoo, which I would say has just as many users as Windows (I would say more, but I'm sure there are some Windows users that don't use Yahoo.) I dunno, everytime I get MSN Messenger popping up on me, I immediately click it closed because it's annoying, and then find out how to keep it from popping up again. I doubt every Windows user actually creates an MSN account just because Messenger is included in their copy of Windows. Not to mention, I don't think it was included by default until XP.

[RiceMonster]

Well I don't know what the reason is, but everyone near me uses MSN, and I don't know anyone who uses anything else to IM. That's also the only reason I use it as well. None of my friends would switch just so they could talk to me.

[Polygon]

edit: ffs why no quote by default!?!? this is @ "i bet you're from europe or aus" (i'm in uk)

i didn't realise it was split geographically like that. i agree with the argument that using a single (MS) protocol by default would look ridiculous.

but for sure, here in the UK *everyone* uses msn. msn and facebook is everywhere. and those are 2 things that in many ways aren't up to scratch on a default ubuntu box. fb lags firefox like a bitch, and pidgin lacks many of the features of WLM/MSN.

msn protocol 15 or something is being implemented into the next version of pidgin, which among other things is offline messaging, personal status, and all the other features people have been complaining about =)

[estyles]

offline messaging

Umm... isn't that what email is for?

[Polygon]

?

techincally email could be used for a lot of things. Why are we all using forums? cant we use email newsgroups for that?

some people like the fact that you can message someone when they are offline and they get the message the next time they sign on.

[karellen]

yeah, but is it really that hard to install 1 extra app when you set it up how you like on first install? this is about first impressions, and i feel pidgin gives a bad first impression. it's too complicated imo.

I don't find Pidgin complicated at all. even though, I prefer Kopete as I mainly use KDE. besides, why install an extra application when both Pidgin and Kopete support MSN?

[Northsider]

Is it just me or does it look exectly the same as Pidgin?

[estyles]

techincally email could be used for a lot of things. Why are we all using forums? cant we use email newsgroups for that?

There seem to be obvious benefits to a web forum. I don't see the benefit in using an IM client to be something that it's not (i.e. an email client), which is why that seems to be a pretty piddling little feature to be overly worried about. Just my opinion, and obviously people want that feature, so...

[tuxxy]

aMSN 2.0 and python ohh I cant wait :popcorn:

[Thee_Baron_]

Even though Emesene as bugs, its great! I also find it less resource hungry than Pidgin and especially aMSN.

Emesene does everything I want, but I dont think it will ever replace Pidgin as a default client because of the protocol support.

[mrgnash]

edit: ffs why no quote by default!?!? this is @ "i bet you're from europe or aus" (i'm in uk)

i didn't realise it was split geographically like that. i agree with the argument that using a single (MS) protocol by default would look ridiculous.

but for sure, here in the UK *everyone* uses msn. msn and facebook is everywhere. and those are 2 things that in many ways aren't up to scratch on a default ubuntu box. fb lags firefox like a bitch, and pidgin lacks many of the features of WLM/MSN.

I am from Australia myself. Most of my contacts are actually using Yahoo, rather than MSN though. Regardless, I haven't had any trouble convincing all of them to sign up for a Google/Jabber account in order to talk to me. Either, they already have Gmail, or they see how easy it is to register a Jabber account. Many of them I have also convinced to use Pidgin (even on Windows), because of the spell check and other nice features.

MSN is what people use out of complacency, but it's rubbish, and not hard to dissuade those who are even a little bit open-minded to try something else, I find.

[Fejker]

I know this is quite an old thread but here goes.

I was just searching for the offline messaging feature support for Pidgin and I found this thread.
Somebody said that IM should be used for IM and that e-mail can be used instead of offline messaging. That is true, but how do you convince other people on WLM to stop messaging you when you're offline and use the inconvenient way of sending you a link or quick message through e-mail. I use dual boot (Ubuntu and WindowsXP for LightRoom and CorelDraw) and when I sign in with WLM under Windows I get a bunch of windows with offline messages that are about a week old ... imagine that.
I don't know what's holding back the developers to implement this feature. If I remember this was said to be supported a couple of releases back (for Pidgin). I even read somewhere that you can compile Pidgin yourself and switch on offline messaging support.
And trying to convince people to start using Gtalk is just too hard ... they just say "but all of my friends use MSN and what does Gtalk have that MSN doesn't...".

BTW, WLM 9 Beta is out.

[FuturePilot]

I know this is quite an old thread but here goes.

I was just searching for the offline messaging feature support for Pidgin and I found this thread.
Somebody said that IM should be used for IM and that e-mail can be used instead of offline messaging. That is true, but how do you convince other people on WLM to stop messaging you when you're offline and use the inconvenient way of sending you a link or quick message through e-mail. I use dual boot (Ubuntu and WindowsXP for LightRoom and CorelDraw) and when I sign in with WLM under Windows I get a bunch of windows with offline messages that are about a week old ... imagine that.
I don't know what's holding back the developers to implement this feature. If I remember this was said to be supported a couple of releases back (for Pidgin). I even read somewhere that you can compile Pidgin yourself and switch on offline messaging support.
And trying to convince people to start using Gtalk is just too hard ... they just say "but all of my friends use MSN and what does Gtalk have that MSN doesn't...".

BTW, WLM 9 Beta is out.

Pidgin 2.5.0 has implemented Offline messaging for MSN.

[Fejker]

Great to hear ... when will it be available through the Ubuntu repositories?

[Kabezon]

Supports only MSN. "emesene" = phonetics to the letters M, S and N in Spanish put together (eme, ese, ene).

[Fejker]

Well, I've just compiled and installed Pidgin 2.5.0 from source and guess what - offline messaging doesn't work. Do I have to switch anything on to make it work. I've gone through the plugins and settings and there's nothing there. At least I can't find anything.

[damoxc]

http://www.getdeb.net/app/Pidgin

Could try that, it's also currently in intrepid.

[estyles]

Somebody said that IM should be used for IM and that e-mail can be used instead of offline messaging. That is true, but how do you convince other people on WLM to stop messaging you when you're offline and use the inconvenient way of sending you a link or quick message through e-mail.

I knew that pidgin couldn't send offline messages, but I didn't realize it couldn't receive them. I have messages waiting for me all the time when I log in... Is it just MSN that it can't receive offline messages from?

[billgoldberg]

http://www.emesene.org/

just found this and it seems very very nice. my reaction is immediately that this would make a better default client than pidgin

can't imagine many people will see the logic behind choosing a technically inferior client but i thought i'd make a thread about it

I use emesene, but I don't see it becoming a default client at the expense of pidgin.

Just because pidgin is able to use about every IM protocol.

[billgoldberg]

Great to hear ... when will it be available through the Ubuntu repositories?

Ubuntu's repositories don't work like that (unlike other distro's).

They only provide security updates for programs.

You'll be using the new pidgin when you upgrade to Ubuntu 8.10 or you can install pidgin yourself (from .deb package, source, ...).

[vishzilla]

I use Pidgin for the Y! protocol, but for Google Talk i use Empathy. The calls work decently. I forsee this client replacing pidgin in future releases.

[Cardcaptor Stacey]

Just tried Emesene (due to Pidgin constantly disconnecting me and not delivering my messages) and it's crashed. :S Not a good start :(

[Fejker]

I knew that pidgin couldn't send offline messages, but I didn't realize it couldn't receive them. I have messages waiting for me all the time when I log in... Is it just MSN that it can't receive offline messages from?

I've tried it with a friend and it doesn't work. I sent him a message if he can msg me when I'm offline and nothing happened when I signed back in. Then I booted into Windows and signed in with WLM and the message was there.
Pidgin only supports pounce as far as I know ... that means both of the parties have to be signed in for the message to get delivered. The scenario would look like this:
- I'm signed in and my friend is offline
- I write a pounce (sort of offline message) to my friend
- I'm still signed on and my friend later signs on and receives my message ... if I'd be offline here he wouldn't receive anything

WLM on the other hand works like this:
- I'm online and send a message to an offline buddy
- He receives this message whenever he signes on not dependent on weather I'm online or offline because the MSN server stores the message

So Pidgin is obviously missing this link between the client and the MSN server.

Or am I missing something?

BTW, I removed the old Pidgin installation and installed Pidgin 2.5.0 from source. Has someone gotten offline messaging to work?

PS: billgoldberg, the repositories work exactly like that - update your software even to a newer version. ;)

[estyles]

So Pidgin is obviously missing this link between the client and the MSN server.

Or am I missing something?

No, pretty sure you're right on, because I know people have complained about the lack of offline messaging in pidgin. My original comment was based on thinking they meant that they wanted to send offline messages, and yeah, that's a feature that wouldn't hurt, but I can't see it being very important. Send an email.

On the other hand, not being able to receive offline messages that others can send to you without getting an error - that is a little annoying. I always thought that pidgin *was* able to receive offline messages, because I seem to have a lot of spam messages waiting for me whenever I log on, but maybe spambots just set up "pounces", or maybe it receives offline messages for other services, but not MSN.