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Canis familiaris
August 10th, 2008, 12:25 PM
I dunno whether it actually exists but wouldn't it be more logical to issue certain DOs and DONTs of the forum rules IN ADDITION(not replace) to the CoC.
I mean the CoC is far too long and I have to admit even I have not read it properly.
A well compiled DOs and DONTs pointwise would be much clearer to forum users in general as compared to the paragraph and then each point enlisted style in the CoC, isn't it?

If it already exists. Could anyone point me to it?

sharks
August 10th, 2008, 01:01 PM
i dunno whether it actually exists but wouldn't it be more logical to issue certain dos and donts of the forum rules in addition(not replace) to the coc.
I mean the coc is far too long and i have to admit even i have not read it properly.
A well compiled dos and donts pointwise would be much clearer to forum users in general as compared to the paragraph and then each point enlisted style in the coc, isn't it?

If it already exists. Could anyone point me to it?

+1

matthew
August 10th, 2008, 01:04 PM
There really isn't a shorter version than this (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy). However, if you need a "nutshell" version, here it is.


Be respectful of all users at all times. This means please use etiquette and politeness. Treat people with kindness and gentleness. If you do this the rest of the code of conduct won't need more than a cursory mention.

Canis familiaris
August 10th, 2008, 01:11 PM
There really isn't a shorter version than this (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy). However, if you need a "nutshell" version, here it is.

That was short. :)

But I was thinking whether like this:
(Note these are not official or actual rules)
DOs
1) Be Respectful
2) Do not bump the thread repeatedly after minutes or few hours. Maybe 10 hours and so and preferably 24 hours.
3)...

....................

DONTs
1) Dont use RFTM.
2) Don't insult some community or someone personally
3) ...

....................

Something like that. (I don't know all the rules myself and few of the rules here I listed are just random rules that came to my mind, the bump one is manipulated lol.)

matthew
August 10th, 2008, 01:16 PM
It's not a bad idea. We have something like what you are thinking for forum features (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=726219), but not for rules.

If someone writes up something good, I'll gladly make it a sticky in this forum.

Canis familiaris
August 10th, 2008, 01:23 PM
If someone writes up something good, I'll gladly make it a sticky in this forum.
Hope someone does. Don't look at me though. I am not very adept to understanding and describing rules.

Joeb454
August 10th, 2008, 01:24 PM
I'll try and draught something up with a few others on IRC and I'll sticky it.

Suggestions are welcome

matthew
August 10th, 2008, 01:38 PM
Thank you for doing this!

Canis familiaris
August 10th, 2008, 01:50 PM
I'll try and draught something up with a few others on IRC and I'll sticky it.

Suggestions are welcome

Another Thanks from me

Joeb454
August 10th, 2008, 01:50 PM
Stickied :)

matthew
August 10th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Good job, and thanks again!

Canis familiaris
August 10th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Stickied :)

Great :)

Canis familiaris
August 10th, 2008, 01:57 PM
How about:
Avoid using terminologies like M$, Windows$, etc. at least in the support forums. (though not nessecary IMO)
Do not PM support questions. Start a thread so that everyone will benefit. (Stole from your sig, Matthew ;) )

alzie
August 10th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Inclusion of sarcasm and snide remarks? I know its meant in humour but it often doesn't come out that way.

Ryadt
August 11th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Can something be added about double-posting or multi-posting.

overdrank
August 11th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Can something be added about double-posting or multi-posting.

HI and it does
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=885589
:)

Joeb454
August 11th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Done!

sayakb
August 11th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Good work Joe!! :)
These may also be considered:
Donts: No username change requests
Dos: Try to post at the correct forum (section?)

dhughes
August 11th, 2008, 06:59 PM
A pet peeve of mine is when you see a post in which the problem has been found and the person posting says something like "Never mind I fixed it!" leaving everyone hanging there wondering how it was fixed, asking the original poster to say what the fix was usually goes unanswered.

A post should have a resolution, if the post is still active and people are able to still reply i.e. it's not read-only then someone should complete it. Someone could post a link to another post of the same topic in which the problem was found and explained, a simple and fast way to resolve it.

If nobody knows how to fix the problem the post gets old and is set to read-only in that situation the post should be deleted otherwise it's just confusing and of no use to anyone, and a waste of storage space.

Elfy
August 11th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Donts: No username change requests
Except under particular circumstances - e-mail as user name for instance

AndyCooll
August 11th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Can I just say that it should be called "Forum conduct do's and don'ts".

Otherwise if it's just a general "do's and don'ts" I'd like to see the usual "Do a search before you post" adding.

:cool:

billgoldberg
August 11th, 2008, 11:33 PM
There is a space missing in point 8 of the DO's.

8)xxxx

instead of

8) xxxx

--

You could maybe also mention that people should include as much info on the problem as they know.

What hardware they run, the errors they are getting, ... instead of just saying "application x doesn't work. How do I fix it?

--

It's a good idea to simplify the rules, as I'm pretty sure most member have never read the CoC.

--

Edit: and now I see why there is one missing.

lol

Maybe you could use points, or will that also give problems with emoticons?

Hell, you're a mod. Turn them off.

LaRoza
August 11th, 2008, 11:44 PM
Hell, you're a mod. Turn them off.

Mods don't have such forum control. You can use the :) tags for it.

cyberdork33
August 12th, 2008, 02:53 AM
you could also just use the numbered list...





one

two

three

four

five





====


one
two
three
four
five

kaibob
August 12th, 2008, 06:23 AM
How about a don't that cautions against unwarranted necromancing. I still see a lot of this.

Canis familiaris
August 12th, 2008, 08:17 AM
Mods don't have such forum control. You can use the :) tags for it.

Also the No smilies in this post checkbox is there.

LaRoza
August 12th, 2008, 08:22 AM
Also the No smilies in this post checkbox is there.

My post had no smiley in it (it had the characters)

noparse will prevent the forum from parsing the contents.

Canis familiaris
August 12th, 2008, 08:29 AM
My post had no smiley in it (it had the characters)

noparse will prevent the forum from parsing the contents.

I know but I am talking about an alternate way

hyper_ch
August 12th, 2008, 08:28 PM
How about:Avoid using terminologies like M$, Windows$, etc. at least in the support forums. (though not nessecary IMO)

What's wrong with that?

M$ is a public traded company.
Company strife to make most possibly money.

So referring to it as M$ just hits the nail on its head.

Sam324
August 14th, 2008, 10:18 PM
3) Tell other's to "RTFM" or such other commentsI found a minor but annoying grammar error in the post, it's that "other's" shouldn't have an apostrophe.

natirips
August 20th, 2008, 11:04 AM
Perhaps under DO'S there should be: Mark your thread as solved when it is solved.

Joeb454
August 20th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Added

kaibob
August 22nd, 2008, 12:13 AM
One item already in the "Forum DO'S and DON'T'S" is:

Use descriptive thread titles & be descriptive about your problem.

I thought I would check to see how everyone was doing and found the following thread titles in the support forums:

Am i a moron?

What's wrong with my problem?

to much ! i feels stupid

is this bad?

im new, sorry....

No Begging-- Just Excited

Made a HUGE mistake

baffled!

Apparently, not all forum members are reading the do's and don't's.

LaRoza
August 22nd, 2008, 12:52 AM
Apparently, not all forum members are reading the do's and don't's.

It is a sticky, no one reads it.

schauerlich
August 22nd, 2008, 12:56 AM
It is a sticky, no one reads it.

In fact, making something a sticky is a pretty good way to make sure no one will read it.

LaRoza
August 22nd, 2008, 12:58 AM
In fact, making something a sticky is a pretty good way to make sure no one will read it.

Yes, I have all sorts of shocking pictures in some stickies, no one has noticed yet, like **** (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Parus_major_4_(Marek_Szczepanek).jpg) and boobies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booby)

Joeb454
August 22nd, 2008, 01:02 AM
True

I've never read a sticky. Not even the Do's & Don't's ;)

natirips
August 22nd, 2008, 08:12 AM
It is a sticky, no one reads it.


In fact, making something a sticky is a pretty good way to make sure no one will read it.


True

I've never read a sticky. Not even the Do's & Don't's ;)

I'm so sorry to dissapoint everyone, but I do read stickies in the forums I visit (or at least those I haven't already read so far). XS

Elfy
August 22nd, 2008, 08:39 AM
There should be a sticky about stickies - or is there one and I haven't read it.

cyberdork33
August 22nd, 2008, 01:44 PM
There should be a sticky about stickies - or is there one and I haven't read it.
This is all explained in the sticky about the sticky about stickies.

Elfy
August 22nd, 2008, 02:02 PM
Aaah I see, it must have been stuck, which is why I couldn't find it.

mips
August 22nd, 2008, 02:25 PM
Do not PM support questions. Start a thread so that everyone will benefit. (Stole from your sig, Matthew ;) )

The PM one is annoying. I still get them for network related stuff as I at one time spent a lot of time in that forum and still have posts there. Everytime I have to tell people (don't worry I do it in a nice way) not to PM me and why they should rather post in the right forum.

cyberdork33
August 22nd, 2008, 02:41 PM
The PM one is annoying. I still get them for network related stuff as I at one time spent a lot of time in that forum and still have posts there. Everytime I have to tell people (don't worry I do it in a nice way) not to PM me and why they should rather post in the right forum.
I do the same usually. I still get annoyed with "I could use your advice on this post..." PMs, especially when they PM me every time they post to the thread.

hyper_ch
August 22nd, 2008, 03:09 PM
I do the same usually. I still get annoyed with "I could use your advice on this post..." PMs, especially when they PM me every time they post to the thread.

it's because you're a hero for them :)

cyberdork33
August 22nd, 2008, 04:46 PM
it's because you're a hero for them :)
SUPER cyberdork33

Canis familiaris
August 24th, 2008, 06:07 PM
In fact, making something a sticky is a pretty good way to make sure no one will read it.

True I dont read them much either :) Originally when I recommended the DOs and DONTs, I intended the DOs and DONTs to be included in the Forum Help Menu. But I hope being Sticky will convey the rules simply too.
And seriously I don't think People read from the Forum Help much either. :lolflag:

mips
August 24th, 2008, 06:31 PM
True I dont read them much either :) Originally when I recommended the DOs and DONTs, I intended the DOs and DONTs to be included in the Forum Help Menu. But I hope being Sticky will convey the rules simply too.
And seriously I don't think People read from the Forum Help much either. :lolflag:

How about if we lable them "Adults only!" ?

Joeb454
August 24th, 2008, 07:30 PM
I could try...

I can't add it to the menu's though

Canis familiaris
August 26th, 2008, 02:01 PM
How about if we lable them "Adults only!" ?

That would attract all. :)

Oldsoldier2003
August 26th, 2008, 02:49 PM
How about if we lable them "Adults only!" ?


That would attract all. :)

Lol! Perhaps starting the post with a disclaimer "This post contains adult content you must be of legal age in your local jurisdiction in order to proceed" will get folks to read at least the first line :)

Oldsoldier2003
September 12th, 2008, 07:17 AM
Don't submit multiple spam reports on the same user. One post is enough for what we need to do :)

Elfy
September 12th, 2008, 07:28 AM
I believe that the Pyschic forums that use the ether rather than ethernet have this on their system - once a post has been reported - a mental memo is sent to the other users... problem solved ;)

Oldsoldier2003
September 12th, 2008, 07:39 AM
I believe that the Pyschic forums that use the ether rather than ethernet have this on their system - once a post has been reported - a mental memo is sent to the other users... problem solved ;)

I probably could have been a little more clear on how I phrased that :) how about this:

Don't waste your time reporting every single post a spammer posts, one post is sufficient.

For example : you notice fictional user xyz123 posted cheap IPOD spam messages on the apple talk, forum feedback and help, programming talk, and several other subforums within a couple minutes. There is no need to fill oout a report for each one. The Mods have a two click tool to obliterate spammers, this tool will delete all of their posts. Making multiple spam reports on the same user just wastes your valuable time.

Elfy
September 12th, 2008, 07:47 AM
:lol:

myusername
September 12th, 2008, 07:47 AM
how about: Don't post pornographic or offensive links/images

natirips
September 12th, 2008, 09:14 AM
how about: Don't post pornographic or offensive links/images

Wasn't there a disscusion about how those could attract more users to read the stickies...

Elfy
September 12th, 2008, 09:26 AM
I couldn't find those stickies - read them all in my search :)

natirips
September 12th, 2008, 09:40 AM
I couldn't find those stickies - read them all in my search :)

I just said there was a disscusion about it (post #34 onwards in this thread if I'm not wrong).

Elfy
September 12th, 2008, 09:51 AM
yes - 'twas a joke - "I looked for the pron but all I could find was stickies, so I read them instead" :D

whizbaby
September 17th, 2008, 10:37 AM
how about: Dont say things like 'There are some scripts, search them'. Either you know a working script or not.

baruch60610
September 18th, 2008, 02:24 AM
The Do's and Don'ts are great, but you might want to explain what it means to "bump" a post, and why that shouldn't be done too often.

natirips
September 18th, 2008, 08:26 AM
The Do's and Don'ts are great, but you might want to explain what it means to "bump" a post, and why that shouldn't be done too often.

"To bump" means to reply a dummy post (usually contaning only the word "bump") just to make the thread go to the top and be read by others. Because posts usually go to x-th page over time, so noone reads them. Bumping will make your thread go to the top (at least for a short time). However if you bump to much others will probably think you already have a good help if you have like 10+ replys.

hyper_ch
September 18th, 2008, 08:58 AM
bring up my post

besides, you tried to find out yourself what bump means?

natirips
September 18th, 2008, 09:31 AM
I was trying to give an explanation based on my experience. But I've seen it being used for other purposes (i.e. to raise statistical number of posts).

Oldsoldier2003
September 18th, 2008, 03:34 PM
how about: Dont say things like 'There are some scripts, search them'. Either you know a working script or not.
Actually telling people to search is a valid response, as long as it is done in a helpful way. For example try googling <search_terms>. For the most part we do discourage the stick RTFM and google it responses since they are not helpful and are rude, but suggesting the proper search terms and helping a new user increase his google-fu isn't against the rules.

whizbaby
September 18th, 2008, 04:36 PM
It wasnt about searching in general, just for advising others to 'search for a script'. As I see it its potentially dangerous ,it is easy to create a fake script that does what its supposed to and aditionally adds a sudo account for the one who wrote the script and so installs a backdoor. Putting it to download somewhere should be easy too. And if a script that works really exists why cant the one knowing about it just give a link?
I put this sentence here because I saw how someone told a newbie that 'there are some scripts' to solve his problem and I felt quite uncomfortable about it.

Mariane
September 24th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Another possible DO:
If you wish to help someone but you are not sure
that the command you post is harmless, please be
sure to mention it.

Another possible DONT:
Tell people "run this command and post the output"
and then never come back to comment upon what was
posted on your request.

Mariane

hyper_ch
September 24th, 2008, 11:50 PM
Another possible DONT:
Tell people "run this command and post the output"
and then never come back to comment upon what was
posted on your request.

So you prefer people not telling other to run a command and post the output?

LaRoza
September 24th, 2008, 11:51 PM
So you prefer people not telling other to run a command and post the output?

I think it is a request to always wait until you are let go by the person. (We aren't paid, and we aren't at the beck and call of anyone ;) We are online when we are online)

lisati
September 25th, 2008, 12:01 AM
So you prefer people not telling other to run a command and post the output?

Different users of the forum have different knowledge and different experience. I'm sometimes aware of commands that might be of help gathering information that might be pertinent to a solution, even when I'm not sure of how to use the information for formulating the solution. In this situation I have occasionally said along the lines of "Try this: it might help someone more knowledgable than myself help you"

selahlynch
December 17th, 2008, 05:41 AM
A potential DO:

DO follow up your thread with a solution... even if you find that solution outside this thread.

I say that because probably you are not the only one to use your thread... you can help all future people who see your thread by posting your final solution.:p

bapoumba
December 18th, 2008, 10:34 PM
A potential DO:

DO follow up your thread with a solution... even if you find that solution outside this thread.

I say that because probably you are not the only one to use your thread... you can help all future people who see your thread by posting your final solution.:p
That's a good idea :)
I edited the thread, please check, thanks.

selahlynch
December 19th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Excellent! Now I just gotta make sure I actually do that.

Elfy
December 19th, 2008, 09:29 AM
Excellent! Now I just gotta make sure I actually do that.

You shall be followed and watched at every turn :lol:

treepolitik
December 22nd, 2008, 10:01 PM
Oops oops oops. I have Ubuntu and posted in an Xubuntu tagged thread! (Instead of an All Variants, Ubuntu, or unmarked thread). What are the ethics for this particular issue? How similar should we consider the different desktop environments? The version they own should not necessarily be a determinant in how helpful someone can be, especially in the Beginner Forum, where it might not be realized how much everyone using Ubuntu, let alone Linux, has in common.

Elfy
December 22nd, 2008, 10:15 PM
mostly I use the tags to

(a)see if it's something I can help with and

(b)tailor any advice - for instance gksudo gedit won't work on xubuntu without gedit being installed and on kubuntu it would be kdesu kate

Does that help with your ethical problem :) or have I missed the point entirely

PCaddicted
July 12th, 2011, 03:34 PM
DON'T post how to allow root logins
What exactly do you mean with this?

bapoumba
July 12th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Root logins howto are not allowed, unless very special circumstances.
We had an attack from people posting dangerous commands mainly to Beginners threads aiming at deleting whole chunks of the system. We are quite attentive to these now.

Joeb454
July 12th, 2011, 08:00 PM
What exactly do you mean with this?

Generally root logins are defined as tutorials which allow the root user to login to the X session (i.e. from the main login screen).

mips
July 13th, 2011, 09:17 AM
Root logins howto are not allowed, unless very special circumstances.
We had an attack from people posting dangerous commands mainly to Beginners threads aiming at deleting whole chunks of the system. We are quite attentive to these now.

I don't agree with protecting people from their own actions. If you don't understand how something works in life then you should not blindly follow advice from strangers, ubuntu is no different to life in general when it comes to this. To much nannying going on in the world as it is.

cariboo
July 13th, 2011, 03:52 PM
I personally have no problem with telling someone how to log in as root, we usually refer people to the RootSudo howto, (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo) but I also include a warning as to how dangerous running as root all the time can be. What I am against is telling someone that asks on the forums. I feel, that if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it. It takes a 30 second search of Google, to come up with an answer, asking on the forums, seems to me to be just plain laziness.

bodhi.zazen
July 14th, 2011, 10:03 PM
I don't agree with protecting people from their own actions. If you don't understand how something works in life then you should not blindly follow advice from strangers, ubuntu is no different to life in general when it comes to this. To much nannying going on in the world as it is.

That is a poor attitude to have in life, let alone on a support site. When you are needing support, Ubuntu or otherwise, I certainly hope you find someone who cares for your welfare more then you care about the welfare of others.

We are in fact holding out the Ubuntu Forums as a place where people can get support. While we can not review each and every post, we improve support in several important ways.

First, advice given here is "peer reviewed". By that I mean that advice is given in public and if bad advice is given it will be reviewed and corrected.

Second, does the attitude you expressed extend to your willingness to support people in such a crisis ? Are you going to do the data recovery ? Are you going to pay for the professional data recovery service ? Data loss can occur and sometimes the data we are talking about is valuable and irreplaceable. As again we are a support site we do have an obligation to protect people form bad advice that might be given.

This site is not perfect, we can not review each and every post, we do not have the staff to do that. But we do have mechanisms in place to have bad advice corrected or removed when it is identified.

As a member of the community I hope you would help when you see bad advice given here as well ;)

In terms of root login, this has been discussed many times and is a dead horse.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=716201

The general gist of the conversation is we refer people to what we consider the proper information and expect them to read.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo

Security is one of the exceptions to the general policy I have on "RTFM", I strongly believe people need to read security information.

When logging in as root is necessary , it is supported. With sudo (and sudo -I), I have not needed to log in as root since I learned to use sudo, with Ubuntu 6.06 (before then I did log in as root as I knew how).

In terms of sudo, I noticed that over time all major distros are migrating to sudo. First debian and not even fedora use sudo (although you can opt for the old su method if you wish). More and more people are advising sudo over su on both Debian and Fedora (although you will still find some hold outs). Although sudo has been available for a long time in Fedora, with fedora 15 sudo is now optionally configured for the first user during the installation, optionally as in Debian (before it was not an installation options and had to be manually configured post install). If you select sudo during the installation of either Debian or Fedora the root account will be locked, as in Ubuntu.

sudo has a number of advantages over su, including logging and graded access to root power. These advantages may not be apparent on a single user or single admin system, but on a multi user or multi admin environment the advantages of sudo are rapidly apparent.

PCaddicted
July 20th, 2011, 08:45 AM
The Forum DOs and DONTs fail to mention that we mustn't post malicious commands and dig up very old infractionable posts.

lisati
July 20th, 2011, 08:26 PM
The Forum DOs and DONTs fail to mention that we mustn't post malicious commands and dig up very old infractionable posts.
Well, actually, from http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy:

Never instruct users to do anything that might break their system.

This is a non-exhaustive list of reasons a thread may be closed, but will give the general idea:

The thread has run it's course and posts have begun repeating themes
The thread has degraded into an argument
The thread topic is a duplicate of another current and active thread
The thread is very old.

bodhi.zazen
July 22nd, 2011, 05:23 PM
I closed this tread as it was necromanced , and the necromancer then went on to start a new thread

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1807542