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victorche
November 10th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Kubuntu's KDE is the worst! There are so many rewiews about the perfect GNOME integration in Ubuntu. Maybe that's the way it is. And really, when I am trying the LiveCD, it works smooth and fast.
Well, for me personally, GNOME is not the functionality I need...
So I installed Kubuntu 5.10.
Terrible!
I can't use the "Administrator Mode" in "Settings". Well, there is a fix for it now, but I won't call it a fix. Now I can use "Administrator Mode" in "Settings", but the windows itself is too big and the button is hiding somewhere deep down :(
And I use a standard 1024x768 resolution...
When I open my "System Settings" the window is not maximized and if I try to maximize it, the window itself becomes maximized, but not the contents of it. They stay in the same way they were before maximizing. They are just the same with some blank fields arround them.
And the icons in Konqueror... Wow, what a mess!
They are not aligned ;) Never! No matter if I delete a file, hit F5 /Refresh/... They just can't be aligned.
This KDE is full of bugs! I have no idea how you can even release it :???:
And if some of the Kubuntu devs read this forum... You should work on it and release a new version as soon as possible.
I know that there is a six month development cyrcle, but hey, folks! This is a joke!
You really made me never think of this distro again! You should know that there isn't a major distro with so bad KDE... Not even one, compared with that mess!

Back to good, old Slackware ;)

Kyral
November 10th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Now I don't like KDE, but this level of flame is uncalled for. You could help out and file bugs in Launchpad if it bugs you that much

teaker1s
November 10th, 2005, 06:35 PM
think your missing something 'it's free' fill out a bug report and in due course they will be fixed. while kde is free you may like to look back at xp a paid os which was dire before sp1 and depending on your views it still is.
If kde doesn't work for you there are different desktops and distro's I'm sure you will find 1 that's too your liking

S29K
November 10th, 2005, 06:38 PM
I hate to agree with a flame post but I tried out Kubuntu 5.10 to see if I would prefer it over Gnome when I upgraded from Ubuntu Hoary and experienced many of the same problems and went running back to Gnome in a hurry. I was severely disappointed in its performance compared to the goodness I was used to.

Having no experience other than my first hour of pain, I ran away rather than attempt to identify bugs which would certainly be more helpful to the dev team. I hope that some hard-core KDE people are working on finding and squashing some of the bugs in this release to fix the problem for Dapper.

Kyral
November 10th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Like teaker1s said, you don't HAVE to use KDE. There is GNOME, XFCE, Enlightenment, FVWM, IceWM, Blackbox, Fluxbox....

victorche
November 10th, 2005, 06:52 PM
Like teaker1s said, you don't HAVE to use KDE. There is GNOME, XFCE, Enlightenment, FVWM, IceWM, Blackbox, Fluxbox....
1. These bugs are already reported. But reported only ;) No good enough fixes. Yet...
2. It is not a "flame post". These are the facts :) As I said, look at the Kubuntu's forums... There are a lots of topics about these Breezy's bugs. Meet those facts and stop acting like I said something bad and I have to say "Sorry"...
3. I love the whole Linux idea, I am using Slackware, so don't tell me to use XP ;)
4. The whole Kubuntu/Ubuntu idea is nice, but it doesn't mean you should be blind when someone here is just telling you the facts ;)
5. I prefer KDE, just because I like the functionality. So I prefer to go back to Slackware, but not to change the desktop. Because of these bugs.

So I hope I was clear enough.
And once again: I love the idea, so I am not here just to argue. I am just sharing my thoughts.

rplantz
November 10th, 2005, 07:10 PM
Like teaker1s said, you don't HAVE to use KDE. There is GNOME, XFCE, Enlightenment, FVWM, IceWM, Blackbox, Fluxbox....

One of the things I like most about Linux is the flexibility.

I have been playing with xfce. I like its simplicity. However, it seems to be a little TOO simple. For example, I have not yet been able to play CDs or use my flash drives with it.

I am curious to hear about experiences with the other desktops. Most of my experience has been with Macs and command line interfaces.

I continue to play with xfce, but most of the time I need gnome in order to get things accomplished. It works quite well for that.

Bob

xequence
November 10th, 2005, 10:09 PM
2. It is not a "flame post". These are the facts

Kubuntu's KDE is the worst!

Its your opinion, not a fact.

I find kubuntu's KDE to be great, but obviously you dont, so you dont have to use it. Even though I find kubuntu's KDE to be great I still use blackbox, which I find to be even greater. (And simple, and fast).

raublekick
November 10th, 2005, 10:28 PM
I guess it's a good thing that Mark wants more focus on Kubuntu then, huh?

I don't know of a single distro that has equally good KDE and Gnome installations.

victorche
November 10th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Its your opinion, not a fact.

I find kubuntu's KDE to be great, but obviously you dont, so you dont have to use it. Even though I find kubuntu's KDE to be great I still use blackbox, which I find to be even greater. (And simple, and fast).
Well you're right about this one ;) This is really my opinion.
But Kubuntu's KDE is great... What is great? Which one of those bugs?
The whole idea was... It is not good enough even for beta testers.

Something that I can't say about Ubuntu's GNOME. So when a community /and the developers in personal/ doesn't have the time and the power to provide a stable KDE distro, it should continue to work over Ubuntu/GNOME only... But to provide so smooth and bug-free product like Ubuntu/GNOME and at the same time some mess like this Kubuntu/KDE... It is not good for the strategy and the good future... You can see by yourself - Ubuntu is No1 on Distrowatch ;)
Kubuntu is 10 places down... So, /again my opinion, not a fact ;)/ Kubuntu's KDE is exactly 10 times worse than Ubuntu's GNOME...
And about the facts - all they are in the Kubuntu's forum. Check "Bugs And Fixes" section...

ljamie82
November 10th, 2005, 10:37 PM
While I don't have enough experience with Kubuntu to agree or disagree with the "flamer's" remarks, I certainly agree with his right to state it. There was opinion in his post, but for the most part he was just discussing his experience, and based on his experience he is completely grounded to say it should not be released like that. Keep in mind though that I've installed some distro's more than ones and had bugs sometimes that I did not later, so reinstalling could help. But let's just assume that it was as bad as he states for everyone, which as far as he knows it is, then yes, he would be fully entitled to say that, even as free software, it should not be released because people still expect it to work, even if they did not pay $200 for it.

Just b/c something is free does not mean it can be crap. When you have a big name and promote something as working, it should work, minus the little things here and there.

With that being said, I really like Ubuntu and haven't had any real problems. :-)

victorche
November 10th, 2005, 10:51 PM
While I don't have enough experience with Kubuntu to agree or disagree with the "flamer's" remarks, I certainly agree with his right to state it. There was opinion in his post, but for the most part he was just discussing his experience, and based on his experience he is completely grounded to say it should not be released like that. Keep in mind though that I've installed some distro's more than ones and had bugs sometimes that I did not later, so reinstalling could help. But let's just assume that it was as bad as he states for everyone, which as far as he knows it is, then yes, he would be fully entitled to say that, even as free software, it should not be released because people still expect it to work, even if they did not pay $200 for it.

Just b/c something is free does not mean it can be crap. When you have a big name and promote something as working, it should work, minus the little things here and there.

With that being said, I really like Ubuntu and haven't had any real problems. :-)
Thanks! At least someone understands me ;)
I am not here just to make useless posts and to make all you Ubuntu fans angry...
If fact I even payed for the latest Ubuntu/Kubuntu 5.10 ;)
Well "payed" is not the exact word. I have a slow internet connection, so I oredered them /both K/Ubuntu install CDs/ from a Bulgarian site for Linux distros /the price is really low :)/...
I have Slackware installed on my main PC, but my laptop still stays with Kubuntu.
My point was to share my problems and I really hope someone will see my message. Because as I said above - the idea is exellent but with this kind of realisation... You'll loose a lots of friends, fans and users. Don't think about me... I will continue testng ;) And I will keep my Slack also...

panickedthumb
November 10th, 2005, 11:07 PM
the thing with Kubuntu... it's still pretty new, and doesn't have paid developers, so the progress is slower. It will get there, it's just a little green still

xequence
November 10th, 2005, 11:24 PM
But Kubuntu's KDE is great... What is great? Which one of those bugs?

Ive never encountered a bug in KDE, aside from amaroK crashing once.

victorche
November 10th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Ive never encountered a bug in KDE, aside from amaroK crashing once.
So we are probably using different distros... The bugs that are mentioned are well known, confirmed and they happen all the time with all of the users ;)

the thing with Kubuntu... it's still pretty new, and doesn't have paid developers, so the progress is slower. It will get there, it's just a little green still
Yes, I agree with that... But maybe it shouldn't be "5.10 Breezy" then... Because it is so far away from the Ubuntu's /GNOME/ 5.10
Far away behind that quality, stable work etc...
And I think people expect the same quality... Because they read good reviews, see the same version number... So for most of the users good words for Ubuntu 5.10 are the same for Kubuntu... As I thought before... I tested Ubuntu 5.04 /GNOME/, I was satisfied, but I prefer KDE... So I said to myself:
A new version, good reviews, many improvements... Great! But I'll take Kubuntu. It is a Ubuntu with KDE... Perfect combination for KDE lovers like me!
But... :???:

imagine
November 11th, 2005, 12:05 AM
The bugs that are mentioned are well known, confirmed and they happen all the time with all of the users
Don't want to offend you, but that just fits: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58017

victorche
November 11th, 2005, 12:27 AM
Don't want to offend you, but that just fits: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58017
To offend me? Oh, no... Nice link ;)

The bad thing here is... hidden. Some people call it "blindness" ;) Maybe people like you will be much more happy if all posts here were like:
"Ubuntu rocks, MaN!" or "So CoOl, Man!"...
But if all the people think like those people, there won't be a progress at all ;)
Just a forum, full of superlatives and a distro, full of bugs.
What do you want me to say? That I am satisfied with its work?

Well, so so so sorry! But I am not... Kubuntu's KDE is full of major bugs. And it's just that. Like it or not ;)

And I am saying this not because I want to argue with people with good and funny links like yours.
But to share my opinion, to share my thought about how it should be.
I can't fix the bugs because I am not a programmer.
I would report the bugs, but all that I mentioned are already reported.
I like this distro and the whole project and the community. That's why I am posting here and that's why I am still using Kubuntu on my laptop.

But I am sorry once again... I am not satisfied with its work. Not at all ;)

ljamie82
November 11th, 2005, 12:36 AM
You know I would like to give back to linux now that I have an idea about what's going on, to help out the new people like I was helped out. But I am getting sick and tired of this "troll" mentality in the linux community. Someone should not be labeled because they have something negative to say. On one hand linux users say it's not for everyone, but on the other hand you can't handle it when someone has anything negative to say, even some supportive critisism.

I am starting to think the linux community is like a minority group that is so jaded they are incapable of seeing beyond their own small numbers. It's not about that people. If someone has something bad to say, make an evaluation as to whether or not you can help them or they just want to go back to windows. If the latter is the case wish them luck and let them go. Don't label them. They're not a label. They're not a "troll." They just someone that didn't have the desire, know how, or interest to keep strugling to make it work, because honestly, and this is RARELY mentioned, on some hardware it IS a struggle.

But no, no one ever thinks this person may have something to say of value. They are just putting down linux, or they're a "troll." I think most people on this forum are really cool people. But it seems the ones with the highest number of posts have let it get to their head or have answered the same questions so many times they're sick of it. Well here's some advice: if you don't want to answer politely, DON'T ANSWER!

I personally am about to give up.

aysiu
November 11th, 2005, 12:44 AM
The only times the word troll appears in this thread are in your post.

The word flame appeared a couple of times in posts with low post counts.

Stop generalizing about what trends you think exist here. Some are more tolerant than others. Some are quick to label. Others aren't. We're a community that's diverse. We try to promote understanding. We're also very used to getting attacked. It's understandable to be defensive.

Get that chip off your shoulder.

By the way, I think victorche's original post had some valid points in it, but it's definitely flame bait any time you exclaim that ______ is "the worst."

victorche
November 11th, 2005, 12:55 AM
By the way, I think victorche's original post had some valid points in it, but it's definitely flame bait any time you exclaim that ______ is "the worst."
Thanks... The "worst" thing was my personal opinion... I am not a KDE or Linux specialist, so it can't be a fact ;)
Please, let's discuss Kubuntu's KDE, its functionality and ideas... And its many bugs.
My opinion is simple:
Ubuntu 5.10 /GNOME/ is far ahead from Kubuntu... And it is a problem. There should be a fix release or a different version number. Or... really more and hard development. But the way it is - it is bad for the whole community. People expect it to be as good as Ubuntu. It is not :(
So that's all I wanted to say :)

aysiu
November 11th, 2005, 12:59 AM
Let me reiterate.
Stating an opinion is fine.
The way you state an opinion (how you phrase it) may make it flame bait or not flame bait.

For example, take a look at these two statements:

1. KDE in Kubuntu is the worst.
2. I think Ubuntu's KDE integration should match the high standards of its Gnome integration.

See how they're both opinions but one is more inflammatory than the other?

I said before, and I'll say it again--you have some valid points. To complain about the labeling of your post as flamebait is ridiculous, though--it is flamebait. Any time you call something (software, a person, a television show--anything) "the worst," you're inviting anger and defensiveness.

poofyhairguy
November 11th, 2005, 01:06 AM
I have been playing with xfce. I like its simplicity. However, it seems to be a little TOO simple. For example, I have not yet been able to play CDs or use my flash drives with it.


run two commands:

gnome-volume-manager

then

nautilus

victorche
November 11th, 2005, 01:15 AM
Let me reiterate.
Stating an opinion is fine.
The way you state an opinion (how you phrase it) may make it flame bait or not flame bait.

For example, take a look at these two statements:

1. KDE in Kubuntu is the worst.
2. I think Ubuntu's KDE integration should match the high standards of its Gnome integration.

See how they're both opinions but one is more inflammatory than the other?

I said before, and I'll say it again--you have some valid points. To complain about the labeling of your post as flamebait is ridiculous, though--it is flamebait. Any time you call something (software, a person, a television show--anything) "the worst," you're inviting anger and defensiveness.
Well, I got your point and I agree. Really... And as I said - "worst" was my opinion.
My experience with Linux began with RedHat 8.0... Well since then I've changed a lot of famous distros and I am using Slackware since an year and a half.
Since 3 days I have Kubuntu on my laptop :)
There are a lots of bugs. Always. In any package. Any kinds of bugs...
But when one /even minor/ is found, it is fixed as soon as possible.
I was simply amazed how this can be released... Not bacause these bugs can't/won't be fixed... They can for sure and they will be.
But you see, there is some great news/announcements on 13th of October... A new version... Improvements, new packages, bug fixes... And finally it looks like it was completed in the last minute, with one tester, who was so tired...
And when a comunity like this one here is building its name and glory, these things shouldn't happen. I think.

I will stop posting here. Because obviously people here prefer to read "This roX, maN!"
Well, excuse me! I was only honest with you...
And just an advice - try to make Kubuntu as good as Ubuntu... Then you'll have the first and the second place in distrowatch.com
I am sure ;)

poofyhairguy
November 11th, 2005, 01:16 AM
Well you're right about this one ;) This is really my opinion.
But Kubuntu's KDE is great... What is great? Which one of those bugs?
The whole idea was... It is not good enough even for beta testers.

Kubuntu is great because it allows users to have the latest KDE (it has a more current version than your Slackware) combined with a package repo that has 16000 pieces of software ready to install at your finger tips. How big is that Slackware repo? Oh yeah.

If its not your cup of tea than fine, don't use it. But don't come post on our forums about how much it sucks. That doesn't make it suck less, and its not bug reports so it does not help developers make things better. All you are doing is being negative while blowing off steam and thats not the kind of contributions we value around here.

Like your mother once said "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." I don't go to the Slackware forums and rave on how much it sucks because I have to compile most of my programs to use them.



Something that I can't say about Ubuntu's GNOME. So when a community /and the developers in personal/ doesn't have the time and the power to provide a stable KDE distro, it should continue to work over Ubuntu/GNOME only... But to provide so smooth and bug-free product like Ubuntu/GNOME and at the same time some mess like this Kubuntu/KDE... It is not good for the strategy and the good future...

Kubuntu is a community project. Its not like Gnome Ubuntu where it is the focus of many paid developers. I don't even think the main Kubuntu developer is a full time paid developer (yet). So its not a representation of Ubuntu, its a side project started by fans. Mark plans to give more support in the future to Kubuntu, but he likes that its a community project.

But sure Mr. Negative. Since you have contributed so much to community we will be sure to take you advice and drop Kubuntu tomorrow.



You can see by yourself - Ubuntu is No1 on Distrowatch ;)
Kubuntu is 10 places down... So, /again my opinion, not a fact ;)/ Kubuntu's KDE is exactly 10 times worse than Ubuntu's GNOME...
And about the facts - all they are in the Kubuntu's forum. Check "Bugs And Fixes" section...

Distrowatch rankings are unscientific at best. They do not say which distro is the best, they says what distro is most popular. You certainly can't say that Kanotix at 19 is 19 times worse than Ubuntu. Thats crazy talk.

victorche
November 11th, 2005, 01:32 AM
Well, OK, poofyhairguy...
I am not negative. Nor I am here just to make you angry. I said /but I have to repeat it maybe/ - I like the idea, the community, etc...
The thing that dissapoints me more than the KDE bugs is the fact that you prefer only "Thank you!" and "Great!" posts.
Kubuntu doesn't deserve "5.10 Breezy" name and version. Compared with Ubuntu's quality. That was my point. And as a free community, I wanted to share it with all the people here.
A community which makes two major products should take care for both. Good care... What I can see here is a perfect distro with GNOME and not so good one with KDE. Which is a problem I think. And I will say it again - I think so.

To talk for someone's mother is not so good ;) You should know it as moderator here... Nothing more to say about "mother's" thing.

About my Slackware - don't worry, it has KDE 3.4.3
The first added in KDE's /contrib directory were Slackware's .tgz packages ;)
You can check here:
ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.4.3/contrib/Slackware/10.2/
Or you prefer a link for 3.5 Beta 2 /I don't know what you mean by latest KDE/?
And packages... Believe me, there are other fools like me who are using it. So I have latest versions of most of the famous linux software. And all of it in .tgz format. So don't worry about my Slackware.

The idea of this topic was... All of us to take care of Kubuntu's problems and ideas...

aysiu
November 11th, 2005, 03:39 AM
The thing that dissapoints me more than the KDE bugs is the fact that you prefer only "Thank you!" and "Great!" posts. Because you've been in this community so long, you know this? Please. When people have constructive criticism or things they want to discuss without using the word worst, they get taken seriously. They also tend to file real bug reports through the proper channels so that the developers can fix things. The developers do not read these forums, especially threads in Community Chat entitled "Ubuntu's GNOME is the best, but..."

You may also want to read What's better than whining on the forums? Making a difference. (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=78741)

panickedthumb
November 11th, 2005, 04:07 AM
just so you know, 5.10 is the version, but the version is based on the date. The first version of Ubuntu was 4.10, because it was released in 2004 in the 10th month.

poofyhairguy
November 11th, 2005, 05:49 AM
To talk for someone's mother is not so good ;).

That by itself is funny to read.

victorche
November 11th, 2005, 11:53 AM
just so you know, 5.10 is the version, but the version is based on the date. The first version of Ubuntu was 4.10, because it was released in 2004 in the 10th month.
I didn't know that... Thanks for this info!

poofyhairguy, I just want to tell you again... "Worst" was my personal opinion.
And about the bugs - I told you that I would report a bug, but all the bug, mentioned above, are already reported ;)
I know what I should do, if I find a new one.

rplantz
November 11th, 2005, 08:15 PM
run two commands:

gnome-volume-manager

then

nautilus

poofyhairguy,

Thanks. That worked.

Now, how do I undo these changes? They seem to have changed config file(s) somewhere. In other words, what did I do?

Sorry if I seem like a pest, but my main interest here is trying my best to understand how things work. It's just the way I am. When we were kids, I broke my toys taking them apart to see how they worked; my brother just broke them. :-)

Bob

aysiu
November 11th, 2005, 08:37 PM
poofyhairguy, I just want to tell you again... "Worst" was my personal opinion. No one's trying to dispute this. No one's saying you're trying to present your opinion as fact. We know it's your opinion. The issue is that some opinions (or the way they're expressed) are flame bait. Others are not. Fortunately, no one's taken you up on the bait. People have remained fairly calm. Potential for conflict (hence the word bait)--conflict averted.

newbie2
November 12th, 2005, 01:22 PM
the thing with Kubuntu... it's still pretty new, and doesn't have paid developers, so the progress is slower. It will get there, it's just a little green still
agree with that... my experience with kubuntu...nicer looking(kinda Apple
-stylish).... but.... slower...and a bit more 'buggy'

ubuntu : faster(booting-up/closing/overall)...warmer colours(my opinion ;) )...but... more 'rawer on the edges'..missing the Apple-style...my opinion ;)

Sirin
November 12th, 2005, 02:05 PM
Kubuntu's KDE is the worst! There are so many rewiews about the perfect GNOME integration in Ubuntu. Maybe that's the way it is. And really, when I am trying the LiveCD, it works smooth and fast.
Well, for me personally, GNOME is not the functionality I need...
So I installed Kubuntu 5.10.
Terrible!
I can't use the "Administrator Mode" in "Settings". Well, there is a fix for it now, but I won't call it a fix. Now I can use "Administrator Mode" in "Settings", but the windows itself is too big and the button is hiding somewhere deep down :(
And I use a standard 1024x768 resolution...
When I open my "System Settings" the window is not maximized and if I try to maximize it, the window itself becomes maximized, but not the contents of it. They stay in the same way they were before maximizing. They are just the same with some blank fields arround them.
And the icons in Konqueror... Wow, what a mess!
They are not aligned ;) Never! No matter if I delete a file, hit F5 /Refresh/... They just can't be aligned.
This KDE is full of bugs! I have no idea how you can even release it :???:
And if some of the Kubuntu devs read this forum... You should work on it and release a new version as soon as possible.
I know that there is a six month development cyrcle, but hey, folks! This is a joke!
You really made me never think of this distro again! You should know that there isn't a major distro with so bad KDE... Not even one, compared with that mess!

Well, instead of saying that Kubuntu is a complete "mess", don't you want to submit some of your suggestions that would increase the dependability and ease-of-use and decrease the frustration level of Kubuntu? We would be happy to hear! :smile:



Back to good, old Slackware ;)


Well, nobody is stopping you. ;) Go ahead! It's your choice. Everyone gets a choice. :smile: