Microsoft researching Windows replacement?

[Tom Mann]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7540282.stm

To Quote:

"Microsoft has kicked off a research project to create software that will take over when it retires Windows."

Obviously this is a long way off, but any thoughts?

[meborc]

that project was started a long time ago by Linus ;)

[ssm360]

i think this is just another way for mickeysoft 2 control and enforce DRM and junk like that. its just a another form of control.

[Lord Xeb]

It will all end up as the same thing: A well crafted piece of crap.

[ssm360]

but in saying that could this b there way of running Linux into the ground :confused: ](*,) :mad:

[LaRoza]

but in saying that could this b there way of running Linux into the ground :confused: ](*,) :mad:

No. They are very far behind and are slipping. They will have to redo their entire business, over 80% of all their money is from Windows, and they will have to do it right the first time.

They are trying to get into surgical supplies, but are stuck in the Copper Age.

[ssm360]

No. They are very far behind and are slipping. They will have to redo their entire business, over 80% of all their money is from Windows, and they will have to do it right the first time.

They are trying to get into surgical supplies, but are stuck in the Copper Age.

well if they did slip, Linux would rule the world :popcorn: :guitar::lolflag: just think what the goodbye windows party would b like:lolflag:

[Sealbhach]

well if they did slip, Linux would rule the world :popcorn: :guitar::lolflag: just think what the goodbye windows party would b like:lolflag:


Wow! I'm getting emotional just thinking about it.


.

[Circus-Killer]

i see this as a desperate attempt from microsoft, one that will surely fail.

also, this whole idea of having an online operating system, dont think it will work for the next 50 years or so. not until there is a global wireless network for anyone to connect to the internet.

point is that it is still hard in some places to get a decent connection. a lot of people still use dial-up. those who may have adsl at home may not have any form of communication. if you have a 3G connection, what happens to your pc running an online OS when you go somewhere where there is no 3G signal (like my infernal house).

but most importantly, it is estimated that to rebuild everything in a standard linux distro from scratch, would cost in the billions. now microsoft may have the billions to throw at it, but they do not have all the years of work, and cannot do a decent job in a short time span, as has been displayed by microsoft.

all in all, i see all of MS's action right now, whether threatening or not, to be a good thing for linux. microsoft seems to be kicking themselves in the head each time they make a decision.

[tom66]

<snip>
but most importantly, it is estimated that to rebuild everything in a standard linux distro from scratch, would cost in the billions. now microsoft may have the billions to throw at it, but they do not have all the years of work, and cannot do a decent job in a short time span, as has been displayed by microsoft

Not only that, but around 8,000 man hours. In RHL, there's 30 million lines of code, and that's what they based it off.

[Alasdair]

Microsoft Research is actually pretty innovative when it comes to new things like this. The problem is that Microsoft is too huge and has too many divergent interests to let something like this take off in a big way. They could write a better kernel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_%28operating_system%29) that linux, but it'll never see the light of day outside the lab. Such huge ecosystems have built up around existing operating systems that it's essentially impossible to replace them.

[Lord Xeb]

Actually, I think it would be interesting to see what they do with this. I am going to look forward to trying out this new OS >_> Then crash it to the ground harder than meteor!

[tom66]

The problem I see with an internet based OS, is that if all the libraries are on the internet, how does one acquire the library to connect to the internet, since said library is required to connect? It's a logical paradox.

[wrtpeeps]

I do find it amusing how people on here are labelling this as desperate. Lets not forget, Microsoft can pump endless amounts of money into researching and marketing new products.

And, even if it does slip, Linux is a LONG way away from being in any sort of position to "take over".

[Linuxratty]

The problem I see with an internet based OS, is that if all the libraries are on the internet, how does one acquire the library to connect to the internet, since said library is required to connect? It's a logical paradox.

Another problem I see is you are even more at their mercy than you are now.
They can basically hold all your data hostage if they wish.
This will just give them even more control...Nope,don't like it.

[fatality_uk]

Microsoft Research is actually pretty innovative when it comes to new things like this. The problem is that Microsoft is too huge and has too many divergent interests to let something like this take off in a big way. They could write a better kernel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_%28operating_system%29) that linux, but it'll never see the light of day outside the lab. Such huge ecosystems have built up around existing operating systems that it's essentially impossible to replace them.

Name 10 applications or processes that have come directly from Microsoft Research Labs. Directly mind you, not bought into the labs! Microsoft's skill is buying in software and systems. The reason the desktop market has been stagnent for many years is the lack of choice and lack of direct innovation.

I just don't buy this idea that a large corporation is be default sluggish in it's approach to innovation.

[Vorian Grey]

I believe I read that even Surface was purchased technology. MS just marketed it. It's sad to say but MS hasn't really innovated anything in a long time, if they ever have. They seem to have great skills at purchasing stuff and then integrating it with their other purchases.

[Circus-Killer]

I do find it amusing how people on here are labelling this as desperate. Lets not forget, Microsoft can pump endless amounts of money into researching and marketing new products.

And, even if it does slip, Linux is a LONG way away from being in any sort of position to "take over".

money, marketing and research are not the only thing that make a good OS. in face you dont need money nor marketing to make an OS. money would help the research but the marketing cant build you a better OS, only sell it. but the research itself is useless if misguided, or in incapable hands.

take a look at vista and think how much money and research they out into that, but it didnt help them then. i dont hope for microsofts failure, i just dont see this working for microsoft. oh, and by the way, microsoft has had many projects that ended up failing, despite the money and research.
just my opinion. :)

[hardyn]

i could see them playing the apple card and doing something like spin off a vista GUIed BSD based system.

[3rdalbum]

If they want to build a new operating system to take over from Windows, then good on them. Their current users won't tolerate any differences from Windows and will complain until kingdom come about the new operating system.

[EdThaSlayer]

So, a "Windows" replacement. Basically using Windows software, and renaming it to make it sound like a shining star. Also, it gets people hyped about the product. :)

[meborc]

if i was bill, i would fire all workers from microsoft, download ubuntu linux (or any other), make a windows mockup and sell it for 400$ as the "new windows" - all legally :D

nice profit

[wrtpeeps]

If they want to build a new operating system to take over from Windows, then good on them. Their current users won't tolerate any differences from Windows and will complain until kingdom come about the new operating system.

Not quite, Microsoft can afford to give proper support for the transition.

[beercz]

The problem I see with an internet based OS, is that if all the libraries are on the internet, how does one acquire the library to connect to the internet, since said library is required to connect? It's a logical paradox.
Don't cell phones connect to the cellular network without 'downloading a library to connect' to the cellular network?

[Joeb454]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7540282.stm

I just read it too, and created a thread about it. Merged with this thread now :p (you can see my original post below)

[ajmorris]

I just read it on BBC News, so I figured you guys might want to talk (no Windows bashing).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7540282.stm

It's pretty hard to believe... Wonder what their new research project will be like.... :P

[Sub101]

Yeh i saw it on the BBC last night.

Sounds like a good idea though. The fear for me would be anyone having access to my data and monitor what I am doing. I don't just mean within Microsoft but any company. In my opinion you can only maintain privacy if you have physical access.

[ibuclaw]

Perhaps something similiar to the various Internet Desktops we've seen emerge around the place, except finally someone is trying to port and merge it into an actual OS for real hardware (the booting part, that is) :)

[Ptero-4]

Don't like it at all. I smell the return of the dumb terminal era. With no physical storage, a ROM-based OS you can't modify and all data and apps in M$ servers. This will give them ultimate control over everything you use and every piece of information you're allowed to access.

[ZarathustraDK]

Meh, it's just another ambitious attempt at getting a foothold in "cloud-computing". It makes sense to organisations and companies, but private individuals will prefer local external storage that they can control (and access from anywhere).

Take a note from the "Ghost in the Shell"-anime. It's far out in the future, people have cyborg-implants, AI-controlled vehicles, hackers rule, and cyberbrains that can hook up to the net matrix-style, but I didn't see any scmuck in there saying "hey, let's all upload all our stuff to someone elses server and trust they wont abuse it, woohoo!".

[gnomeuser]

I would be very interested in the advantages such a truly modern system would give us. Singularity is a fantastic foundation to build on, I have been following the research videos on channel 9 for a while and everytime they manage to wow me.

This is definitely the way we need to go in the future, it is going to be painful to give birth to but I hope it will push interested parties to invest heavily in making concepts like SharpOS to compete.

I would love to Windows and Linux buried by this kind of progress, it is the future. We will have to compete on that battleground on openness, Microsoft I suspect will drag us kicking and screaming into the 21th century and it will be good for us.

[forrestcupp]

The original article tells us that Microsoft is thinking about moving toward cloud computing. What's new? We've known this for a long time.

In my opinion, moving toward only cloud computing is a dumb idea whether it's Microsoft or Ubuntu. I can see it being good if the standard internet connection becomes 1000 times faster, internet service is free for everyone, and they don't start to lease all of the software that we use. When that happens, I'll support cloud computing.

[irv]

Total infrastructure change would have to take place globally before this could take place. Look what is happening in the WiFi world today (cells etc). Even my grandkids have blackberrys and are on the Internet all the time.
Also think about what is happen with things like google and there gmail, calendar, documents, photos, reader and etc all online. I believe with netbooks and online apps and fast boots, we are already moving in that direction.
Irv

[forrestcupp]

Also think about what is happen with things like google and there gmail, calendar, documents, photos, reader and etc all online. I believe with netbooks and online apps and fast boots, we are already moving in that direction.
Irv
It's true that really light weight, simple things can be done easily with cloud computing. But what happens when we want to run more complicated things? A modern game can barely fit onto a DVD. I don't really want to have to download all of that content every time I want to play a game.

Also, cloud computing is pretty much synonymous with "pay per use". Microsoft has been talking about online pay per use software for years. You'll either end up paying with your credit card or by being subjected to advertising. When the industry evolves to the point that they are much more dependent on advertising, they'll find ways to get around our little ad-blockers.

I'd feel much more comfortable with buying my software once and using it whenever I want and as much as I want on my computer.

[irv]

It's true that really light weight, simple things can be done easily with cloud computing. But what happens when we want to run more complicated things? A modern game can barely fit onto a DVD. I don't really want to have to download all of that content every time I want to play a game.

Also, cloud computing is pretty much synonymous with "pay per use". Microsoft has been talking about online pay per use software for years. You'll either end up paying with your credit card or by being subjected to advertising. When the industry evolves to the point that they are much more dependent on advertising, they'll find ways to get around our little ad-blockers.

I'd feel much more comfortable with buying my software once and using it whenever I want and as much as I want on my computer.

I agree with you on the last statement. I too would rather buy my software or in the case with Linux use opensource.
If you think back a few years and see how far and how fast things changed, one has to wonder where we will be in a few more years with the technology moving forward.
I forsee cut down OS's and fast boot PC with online software, but also fast running software on faster USB sticks or something like that. Just like floppy's went by the wayside so will CD's and other forms of media.
I just upgraded my small 250gig Hard Drive and replace it with my 1tb drive.

[Nemisis215]

As a Relative Toddler Into The World Of Computing I Myself Cannot Remember The Days Of "Dumb Terminals" and/or DOS but this publicised move to Online OS's (Cloud Computing as I hear it called) with no real ability to change anything about our systems and all our sensitive private documents stored in one place makes no sense to me, surely someone else apart from me can see the complete disregard for the right to privacy and the right to free information, also the size, speed and reliability needed to run something like this would need to be immense, imagine every computer on the planet somehow coupled into one and that's somewhere near the enormity of the challenge facing Microsoft, I just cant see how they can make this economically feesable.

Sorry just had to say my piece

Anyone finds fault with my arguements feel free to tell me, its all a learning curve.:p:D:KS

[Ptero-4]

Meh, it's just another ambitious attempt at getting a foothold in "cloud-computing". It makes sense to organisations and companies, but private individuals will prefer local external storage that they can control (and access from anywhere).

Take a note from the "Ghost in the Shell"-anime. It's far out in the future, people have cyborg-implants, AI-controlled vehicles, hackers rule, and cyberbrains that can hook up to the net matrix-style, but I didn't see any scmuck in there saying "hey, let's all upload all our stuff to someone elses server and trust they wont abuse it, woohoo!".

What warranty do you have that they won't make illegal the manufacture/possesion/use of PC's/local storage? They have been willing to do lots of really nasty stuff to keep complete control over our information what we use.

[ZarathustraDK]

What warranty do you have that they won't make illegal the manufacture/possesion/use of PC's/local storage? They have been willing to do lots of really nasty stuff to keep complete control over our information what we use.

Greed, as long as there is a market for it, companies (in this case chip-manufacturers) are not likely to lay down their bread and butter that they can charge billions of users for. Computers don't hurt people or are in other ways detrimental to some part of society, so why outlaw them? I'd expect cigarettes and alcohol to go first, long before any such dystopy could take place.

[Ptero-4]

Greed, as long as there is a market for it, companies (in this case chip-manufacturers) are not likely to lay down their bread and butter that they can charge billions of users for. Computers don't hurt people or are in other ways detrimental to some part of society, so why outlaw them? I'd expect cigarettes and alcohol to go first, long before any such dystopy could take place.
Why. Simple, because M$ have the finantial power to strong-arm any (and every) goverment, besides. This decision would benefit the media labels (MPAA/RIAA) which the goverment is in bed with. Simply the ones interested in outlawing the PC are more and have deeper pocketbooks than everyone of us together.

[RottingChrist]

Yeah right...

[Delever]

What I got from last MS developer event, is that Microsoft doesn't know what to do, so they are doing everything at once.

[Giant Speck]

It would be interesting, but considering the current shape the economy is and how Microsoft has been doing financially in the past couple of years, it would not be feasible.

[arashiko28]

Well, here you go, the first step after Billy went home to see how he can save the world and it's a dumb one. They should do a deep marketing research and with a 3rd party company, obviously their marketing researchers are too busy and desperate on keeping their jobs that they don't throw any real results.
Any of us has experienced some discussion sometimes taken to a big arguing when trying to convert someone to open source, a lot of people says "sure, I'll give it a try" and a lot more says "I don't have the time to learn a new OS from scratch", and for the lousiest Vista came to be, they stuck with it because it's what they know. Even though, I've proved my point when it comes to the differences, Vista makes things harder and it's little intuitive, so you do have to learn again how to use it. For what I have seen from windows 7, it'll be awesome only on touch screen computers, the rest of the world will go crazy trying to get some work done. Besides, if their plan is to force public to buy a new computer just to get windows 7 on the market, well, at least not where I live. World wide economy it's to the level you can easily throw 1,000 dollars to the thin air.
Let's say you just bought a laptop, it's about 6 months old, and because of the release of microsoft's next OS (supposedly in june) your shiny like new laptop gets depreciated faster than a crashed car and now you have to by a new one because sadly your job demands it. What will you do with the new-obsolete one?

Anyway, they just don't get it. Users don't hate windows, users hate microsoft's policies, rubbish and their imperative need of always controlling the market and what you do on the privacy of your home.
A lot of guys would disagree when it comes to think that since will it be on a "public" server, they'll know how many times you go to this or that porn page. And that's nothing, they already know that, but the word blackmail is like a big flashing sign in front of my eyes.

[LuigiAntoniol]

The original article tells us that Microsoft is thinking about moving toward cloud computing. What's new? We've known this for a long time.

In my opinion, moving toward only cloud computing is a dumb idea whether it's Microsoft or Ubuntu. I can see it being good if the standard internet connection becomes 1000 times faster, internet service is free for everyone, and they don't start to lease all of the software that we use. When that happens, I'll support cloud computing.

Wouldn't work where I live (South Africa). Capped internet really caps you, uncapped internet costs much more, maximum ADSL speed of 4mbps, max 3G wireless speed of 7.2mbps. All of these options are over-priced when compared to global standards.

Might be a decade before we catch up with the rest of the world on access speeds.