Apple - tried and failed to - shut down El Tunes

[Vadi]

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Apple_tried_and_failed_to_screw_over_Linux_users

View blog post here (http://vadi-blog.com/2008/07/30/apple-tries-to-shut-down-el-tunes-viva-la-el-tunes/), and El Tunes annoucement here (http://groups.google.com/group/broken-fractal-announcements/browse_thread/thread/de0a0f3860a7e1d1?hl=en).

Update 2: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Apple_tried_and_failed_to_screw_over_Linux_users_a gain

(and remember, be polite!)

[acelin]

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Apple_tried_and_failed_to_screw_over_Linux_users

View blog post here (http://vadi-blog.com/2008/07/30/apple-tries-to-shut-down-el-tunes-viva-la-el-tunes/), and El Tunes annoucement here (http://groups.google.com/group/broken-fractal-announcements/browse_thread/thread/de0a0f3860a7e1d1?hl=en).

(and remember, be polite!)

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

This is uncalled for.

[eragon100]

I don't understand the logic behind apple's actions.

Because of the possibility to play itunes music on linux, more people buy that music, and they make more money, right?

And it doesn't cost them any development costs, does it? :confused:

[paul101]

so, they are essentially backing music piracy then?



thats where they'd go if the music from i-tunes didnt work



apple is turning into another greedy company, just like M$

[Polygon]

if apple had a suitable way to play their music under linux, programs like el tunes wouldn't exist, wow apple, what a concept!

[Ozor Mox]

Pathetic. This has at least settled something for me though, I will now totally avoid all Apple products, just as I do with Microsoft products.

[imronak]

apple is turning into another greedy company, just like M$


Wait, what?

Are you comparing apple and microsoft?, ha ha, microsoft is much better :p

Atleast, you can run your programs on microsoft devices (referring to iphone)


As regards to the topic, well wait and watch apple will sue everyone that will come in their way of ilife. One day they will have their own iInternet, which will not be compatible with the general Internet.

Here comes the way of incompatibility (and sueing).

[Methuselah]

DRM fosters a culture of control.
Even though its just allowing peopel to play music they have already bought apply wants to control how you can play it.
El Tunes diminishes their control because you have an alternative to Apple's players.
If apple's players decide to stop playing your music maybe El Tunes might still do so.
That's why they hate it.

Once you buy into DRM, control of what you paid for is no longer yours.
Most licenses include clauses that allow companies to stop the services and leave you with useless data at any time.

[Foster Grant]

Burn your iTunes music to a CD. Rip music on the CD into the format of your choice. DRM issue resolved.

[bp1509]

so, they are essentially backing music piracy then?



thats where they'd go if the music from i-tunes didnt work



apple is turning into another greedy company, just like M$

No, see all companies are greedy, it's the very nature of the organizational unit. It's just that some are led by people with ethical and practical vision and others are not.

That being said, anyone who cares about product lockin, DRM, intellectual property, and who doesn't like corporate bullies and lawsuit happy oppurtunists, AND who's ever fooled themselves into thinking that someway, somehow, Apple is better than Microsoft in anyways, is lacking in mental facilities.

Apple has, even in the 80s, painted themselves as this "counter culture" against everything out there, and they want their fans to believe it too. Whether it's the Apple commericials resembling the 1984 movie, or the new snarky Mac ads rallying against Microsoft.

And I'll say this to dellusioned Apple fans, or anyone else that puts that kind of faith in the image of a company, consumer culture will never be a true culture to your own values. Oh, they may hook you for a time and make you think otherwise, but sooner or later you'll realize that company is the same evil as the one you stood against. Sadly, more people just find another company's bandwagon to jump on and never really learn their lesson.

If people like Macs, Apple products, microsoft products, etc.. that's fine by me. I'm merely talking to people who somehow believe the cult of mac is somehow any different than the monoculture of MS. If Apple were half as big as MS, I believe they'd be 100 times worse than MS has ever been.

[Lexicon101]

But in the end, you can't strangle a penguin. it has no neck and it's way too slippery.

[geoken]

I don't understand the logic behind apple's actions.

Because of the possibility to play itunes music on linux, more people buy that music, and they make more money, right?

And it doesn't cost them any development costs, does it? :confused:

Apples logic: We want to be THE alternative to Window's. We need to do anything we can to lessen the viability of any other Window's alternative OS's.

[cardinals_fan]

What's disturbing is the way Apple went about this. Instead of complaining to the El Tunes people, they went for the throat and contacted their host!

[RiceMonster]

To be honest, I never really got this "pay for mp3s" thing anyway. Before you say anything, I do buy music. I own about 120 cds right now. That's because when I buy music, I want the actual cd. I may as well just download it illegally if I just want the mp3. It's not the same at all as owning the actual cd.

[cardinals_fan]

To be honest, I never really got this "pay for mp3s" thing anyway. Before you say anything, I do buy music. I own about 120 cds right now. That's because when I buy music, I want the actual cd. I may as well just download it illegally if I just want the mp3. It's not the same at all as owning the actual cd.
I download music that's free LEGALLY. The Peabody Concert Orchestra (http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/pcorecordings) is one of many groups that releases their music for free.

Musopen (http://www.musopen.com/) is another great source.

[Lexicon101]

I'm not gonna lie. I download mass music from torrent websites. But it's mostly because I can't find the music I like in a retail store, and I don't want major amounts of CDs laying around in my room. Also, iTunes pisses me off.

[Dr. C]

No, see all companies are greedy, it's the very nature of the organizational unit. It's just that some are led by people with ethical and practical vision and others are not.

That being said, anyone who cares about product lockin, DRM, intellectual property, and who doesn't like corporate bullies and lawsuit happy oppurtunists, AND who's ever fooled themselves into thinking that someway, somehow, Apple is better than Microsoft in anyways, is lacking in mental facilities.

Apple has, even in the 80s, painted themselves as this "counter culture" against everything out there, and they want their fans to believe it too. Whether it's the Apple commericials resembling the 1984 movie, or the new snarky Mac ads rallying against Microsoft.

And I'll say this to dellusioned Apple fans, or anyone else that puts that kind of faith in the image of a company, consumer culture will never be a true culture to your own values. Oh, they may hook you for a time and make you think otherwise, but sooner or later you'll realize that company is the same evil as the one you stood against. Sadly, more people just find another company's bandwagon to jump on and never really learn their lesson.

If people like Macs, Apple products, microsoft products, etc.. that's fine by me. I'm merely talking to people who somehow believe the cult of mac is somehow any different than the monoculture of MS. If Apple were half as big as MS, I believe they'd be 100 times worse than MS has ever been.

Well said

[the_darkside_986]

One more reason to despise Apple, another reason being their horrible email client that comes with OS X ("mail" I believe). I know this from experience, I had to set up a new employee's email address on their silly little MacBook--a machine that costs $100+ more than a typical System76 laptop with better graphics, memory, same CPU, etc.--and that Mail program has the most absurd interface I've ever seen. I would recommend Outlook or even Mozilla Thunderbird over that mess. I finally got it working somehow but using it is awkward.

I never use iTunes and I never will, but I would be more than willing to provide torrent hosting for any user liberation, DRM-resistant type of software. I don't care about crappy popular music but I will fight against threats to computer freedom 'til the very end.

[Canis familiaris]

I'll rather pirate and buy merchandise(even if that is worthless for me so that I pay something to the artists) or stop listening altogether rather than buy DRMed music. Or buy Audio CDs or buy DRM free music.
Buying DRMed music is worse crime in my opinion.
(hell I dont care how those music companies not earning extra pocket money at the end of the month)

[hellmet]

And I was actually contemplating buying a iPod sometime soon. This news pisses me off.

[the_darkside_986]

My PSP actually makes an awesome music player, as it runs 3.4 OE--a custom firmware capable of playing homebrew. I use a special homebrew software for playing ogg vorbis since Sony is too idiotic to implement vorbis playback in their own firmware. But I might write my own music player for the PSP once I re-learn the pspgu (graphics) library. There is nothing cooler than "freed" hardware capable of running homemade software. But this is an older, "phat" PSP model that I bought in 2005.

[grossaffe]

so, they are essentially backing music piracy then?



thats where they'd go if the music from i-tunes didnt work



apple is turning into another greedy company, just like M$

apple has always been that company. Its part of the reason why microsoft beat them in the first place.

[hellmet]

Also, I'm glad Apple isn't Microsoft.

[wolfen69]

No, see all companies are greedy, it's the very nature of the organizational unit. It's just that some are led by people with ethical and practical vision and others are not.

That being said, anyone who cares about product lockin, DRM, intellectual property, and who doesn't like corporate bullies and lawsuit happy oppurtunists, AND who's ever fooled themselves into thinking that someway, somehow, Apple is better than Microsoft in anyways, is lacking in mental facilities.

Apple has, even in the 80s, painted themselves as this "counter culture" against everything out there, and they want their fans to believe it too. Whether it's the Apple commericials resembling the 1984 movie, or the new snarky Mac ads rallying against Microsoft.

And I'll say this to dellusioned Apple fans, or anyone else that puts that kind of faith in the image of a company, consumer culture will never be a true culture to your own values. Oh, they may hook you for a time and make you think otherwise, but sooner or later you'll realize that company is the same evil as the one you stood against. Sadly, more people just find another company's bandwagon to jump on and never really learn their lesson.

If people like Macs, Apple products, microsoft products, etc.. that's fine by me. I'm merely talking to people who somehow believe the cult of mac is somehow any different than the monoculture of MS. If Apple were half as big as MS, I believe they'd be 100 times worse than MS has ever been.

well said.

[wolfen69]

My PSP actually makes an awesome music player, as it runs 3.4 OE--a custom firmware capable of playing homebrew. I use a special homebrew software for playing ogg vorbis since Sony is too idiotic to implement vorbis playback in their own firmware. But I might write my own music player for the PSP once I re-learn the pspgu (graphics) library. There is nothing cooler than "freed" hardware capable of running homemade software. But this is an older, "phat" PSP model that I bought in 2005.

my PSP is also my music player. i love it. music, podcasts, video, pictures, games, and internet all in one relatively small package. sure, it's not the smallest thing around, but it fits in my pants pocket. my eeepc and psp are 2 of the best things ive ever bought.

[jeyaganesh]

This is an act of arrogance. They are worsen than MS. If i buy music, i have rights to use it where ever and on what ever i want. Trash Mac products.

[thedevnull]

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Apple_tried_and_failed_to_screw_over_Linux_users

View blog post here (http://vadi-blog.com/2008/07/30/apple-tries-to-shut-down-el-tunes-viva-la-el-tunes/), and El Tunes annoucement here (http://groups.google.com/group/broken-fractal-announcements/browse_thread/thread/de0a0f3860a7e1d1?hl=en).

(and remember, be polite!)

Apple tried and FAILED to create a single product worth a millisecond of my time. Rationally minded, intelligent and informed consumer don't buy Apple. FOSS people who know anything don't buy from them because they are the same as Microsoft or anyone else.

Don't buy their crapple....:lolflag:

[nerd0795]

More and more, Apple is swaying me not to try a mac. Since of how Apple was acting recently I don't think I'll ever buy a mac.

Next thing you know Apple is going to try to sue linux from having people make it look like mac os x. Or they'll ban Windows or Linux from being installed on a mac.

[thedevnull]

Burn your iTunes music to a CD. Rip music on the CD into the format of your choice. DRM issue resolved.

Actually that doesn't satisfy those of us who are against DRM existing there in the first place. That is one of the many reasons I don't buy Crapple products. You really need to learn more about DRM so you can understand how awful the future implications will be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

[jeyaganesh]

In Crapple Mac you cant even change the theme. You always have to see the same grey color bar for your whole life.

[nerd0795]

It's pitiful how mac os x is raising in the markets. I hope Microsoft's Windows 7 will pwn mac os x. Then pwn it again. Then again. Then again. Until mac os xhas 0.000001% of the markets share :). I want Microsoft to own mac os x. While I want linux to be even with Microsoft. Since I am a big fan of linux and Microsoft (Don't bash me please). I want them both be the best.

[thedevnull]

One more reason to despise Apple, another reason being their horrible email client that comes with OS X ("mail" I believe). I know this from experience, I had to set up a new employee's email address on their silly little MacBook--a machine that costs $100+ more than a typical System76 laptop with better graphics, memory, same CPU, etc.--and that Mail program has the most absurd interface I've ever seen. I would recommend Outlook or even Mozilla Thunderbird over that mess. I finally got it working somehow but using it is awkward.

I never use iTunes and I never will, but I would be more than willing to provide torrent hosting for any user liberation, DRM-resistant type of software. I don't care about crappy popular music but I will fight against threats to computer freedom 'til the very end.

You make a good point about their substandard software and hardware. Apple hardware is closed and they are monopolistic in the way they sell it. This is generally why any apple product costs you 20-40% more than comparable PC hardware. One hardware marketplace is much more "open" in terms of many vendors and actual competition (PC) and one is more "closed" Apple. So when you go buy an Apple, because you think you are being such rebel, just remember its more like you are being suckered. :mad:

Apple is even suing a "clone" vendor for selling a competing Apple hardware model. Doesn't that sound like Microsoft like behavior?

http://news.digitaltrends.com/news-article/17300/apple-sues-psystar-admits-mobileme-mess

[OutOfReach]

Wow.
Now I believe Apple is more greedy than Microsoft, I mean they don't want to port iTunes to Linux and they don't want projects like El Tunes to exist, I mean come on! There are still Linux users who have iPods and buy from iTunes!
And to think, I was thinking about buying an iPod touch and an iMac! Bah, never again will I buy from Apple, Neva! This just really makes me mad.

[nerd0795]

Wow.
Now I believe Apple is more greedy than Microsoft, I mean they don't want to port iTunes to Linux and they don't want projects like El Tunes to exist, I mean come on! There are still Linux users who have iPods and buy from iTunes!
And to think, I was thinking about buying an iPod touch and an iMac! Bah, never again will I buy from Apple, Neva! This just really makes me mad.

Well said. I was planning on getting imac too and an ipod. But now I don't want to after this.

[Vadi]

They failed, again.

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Apple_tried_and_failed_to_screw_over_Linux_users_a gain

[jeyaganesh]

There are lot of torrent sites has Mac OS illegally. Why Apple is not taking action against them first?

[Alasdair]

"The third alternative is to abolish DRMs entirely. Imagine a world where every online store sells DRM-free music encoded in open licensable formats. In such a world, any player can play music purchased from any store, and any store can sell music which is playable on all players. This is clearly the best alternative for consumers, and Apple would embrace it in a heartbeat. If the big four music companies would license Apple their music without the requirement that it be protected with a DRM, we would switch to selling only DRM-free music on our iTunes store. Every iPod ever made will play this DRM-free music." -- Steve Jobs (source (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/))

Soo... Apple would happily provide DRM free tracks if the music businesses would just let them, yet they seem hellbent on shutting down El Tunes as soon as they can. Odd isn't it? :-s

[Vadi]

el tunes update their site: http://www.el-tunes.com/

[Dr. C]

Here is an example of Apple's very poor response to the DNS vuneralilty from Macworld: Apple’s unforgivable DNS delay (http://www.macworld.com/article/134793/2008/07/apple_dns.html)
The major GNU / Linux vendors (including Canonical) and Microsoft have addressed this flaw long ago but not Apple.

[cardinals_fan]

Here is an example of Apple's very poor response to the DNS vuneralilty from Macworld: Apple’s unforgivable DNS delay (http://www.macworld.com/article/134793/2008/07/apple_dns.html)
The major GNU / Linux vendors (including Canonical) and Microsoft have addressed this flaw long ago but not Apple.
This is much more disturbing than the attacks on El Tunes. Just because Apple's loyal fan base is convinced that OS X is secure doesn't mean that they can get away with this.

[FuturePilot]

Wow, Apple are really shooting themselves in the foot right now and making themselves look like fools.

That's just unbelievable. Twice and failed both times. Pitaful :-({|=

[master5o1]

somebody slashdot this

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Then there's the MobileMe debacle. Still no Linux support. Still no "take me the heck back to .Mac" button... still a major screwup. Hint: Do Not Radically Change Products People Have Already Payed Year Long Subscriptions For. Not that I did, but I think they need help figuring it out and I am negatively affected simply by the radiant idiocy.

I predict a big product release to magically distract people from all of this: The iGlass! A big touch-sensitive glass sphere. Not just regular glass: Optical quality glass! It has WiFi and Bluetooth, and it will talk with your iPhone all the time via 3G!
It doesn't just have no buttons; it is itself a button! Yes, buy one iGlass and use it as a doorbell, a light switch, a right click button, an actual permanent Eject button... or even a hard reset button for your Mac so, when it Beachballs by you running our X Server, it can return to operation gracefully! Using advanced 720-degree projectors, the iGlass will display detailed information about its current assigned operation.

"Watch this. Our engineers have put a lot of work into this. We put a lot of our resources towards it, but I am sure you will forgive us for reassigning half the MobileMe servers when you see what we have accomplished. So, today I am proud to show you how it works! I put my hand on iGlass and... Boom: it just works!"

Is it a clock? Is it a bell?! Is it a light bulb?! Is it a fire alarm?!
No... it's iGlass!

...
Hey, I'd better patent that!

[master5o1]

Then there's the MobileMe debacle...

I predict a big product release to magically distract people from all of this: The iGlass! A big touch-sensitive glass sphere. Not just regular glass: Optical quality glass!
It doesn't just have no buttons; it is itself a button! Yes, buy one iGlass and use it as a doorbell, a light switch, a right click button, an actual permanent Eject button... or even a hard reset button for your Mac so, when it Beachballs, it can return to operation gracefully! Using advanced 720-degree projectors, the iGlass will display detailed information about its current assigned operation.

"Watch this. Our engineers have put a lot of work into this. We put all of our resources towards it, but I am sure you will forgive us for reassigning half the MobileMe servers when you see what we have accomplished. So, today I am proud to show you how it works! I put my hand on iGlass and... Boom: it just works!"

Is it a clock? Is it a bell?! Is it a light bulb?! Is it a fire alarm?!
No... it's iGlass!

...
Hey, I'd better patent that!


Or a very expensive paperweight

[jeyaganesh]

Apple's letter to El Tune's latest host;

To Whom It May Concern:

We represent Apple Inc. ("Apple"). It has come to our attention that a website you host, www.el-tunes.com , is currently distributing
software designed to circumvent Apple's FairPlay system. The website is offering four such files for download -- available at
http://el-tunes.com/eltunes_0.2-0_i386.deb, http://el-tunes.com/eltunes_0.2-0_amd64.deb, http://el-tunes.com/eltunes-0.2_i386.tar.gz, and
http://www.el-tunes.com/eltunes-0.1.tar.gz -- and instructions for installation and/or use of same.

These files consist primarily of Apple copyrighted software. Unauthorized dissemination of copyrighted software is strictly prohibited. Because
they circumvent Apple's FairPlay digital rights management system, the files and/or their related executables may also be considered circumvention
devices under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The DMCA specifically prohibits the distribution and trafficking of circumvention devices.
I also note that such activities violate your Acceptable Use Policy.

Because the entire website is devoted to the illegal distribution of the aforementioned software, Apple requests that you immediately disable
www.el-tunes.com . Note that Host Dime, Inc., disabled the site last night and the operators simply relocated it to your facilities. Please notify
me by reply e-mail once you have disabled the site, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

El Tunes reply with a cartoon;

We are working on moving to a server that allows us to once again host the files directly, but in the meantime, Here's to you, Apple:
(photo in attachment)

[grossaffe]

^what a great response! :lolflag:

[master5o1]

The fact is, El Tunes has made it much easier for Apple to port iTunes over if they want to. All the gstreamer framework is here for using codecs and now FairPlay. The fact that they don't want us have legal access to their music is absurd.

[Dixon Bainbridge]

I still dont understand why anyone would want to use an ipod and itunes at all.

[Vadi]

somebody slashdot this

Okay, I slashdotted it. However wordpress seems to be refusing the slashdot button thing :/

[Ozor Mox]

I still dont understand why anyone would want to use an ipod and itunes at all.

They are drawn in by the Apple marketing machine. I know plenty of people who use iPods and even more who use iTunes. If only they knew and cared about what they were supporting :(

I love the El Tunes response by the way!

[AlphaMack]

Let's hope that the development stays alive. :?

Anyone else having problems with eltunes-auth and Rhythmbox crashing while trying to play m4p files?

[Vadi]

With 0.2 version?

[Wolfpack Fan]

In order for me to get eltunes auth to work I had to install curl

sudo apt-get install curl

Once curl was installed eltunes auth worked, and rythmbox stopped crashing.

[cbrocious]

Anyone else having problems with eltunes-auth and Rhythmbox crashing while trying to play m4p files?

Are you updated to v0.2? If not, please give that a try, as we fixed the few known issues with auth. If you have, please run the following command: eltunes-auth <your_email> <your_password> > log.txt 2>&1
Then once that runs, email the log, /tmp/eltunes.authenticate, and /tmp/eltunes.authorize to cody@brokenfractal.com and I'll help you get this worked out :)

Thanks,
- Cody Brocious
CTO of Broken Fractal Ventures

[cbrocious]

In order for me to get eltunes auth to work I had to install curl

sudo apt-get install curl

Once curl was installed eltunes auth worked, and rythmbox stopped crashing.

We added the curl dependency to v0.2 -- overlooked it for the first release. No need to install it manually anymore :)

- Cody Brocious
CTO of Broken Fractal Ventures

[AlphaMack]

We added the curl dependency to v0.2 -- overlooked it for the first release. No need to install it manually anymore :)

- Cody Brocious
CTO of Broken Fractal Ventures

Thanks Cody.

I had to actually install curl but now I get this output:



:~$ eltunes-auth XXX@YYY ZZZ

curl: (6) Couldn't resolve host 'phobos.apple.com'
sed: can't read /tmp/eltunes.authenticate.xml: No such file or directory
sed: can't read /tmp/eltunes.authenticate.xml: No such file or directory
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 665 100 665 0 0 197 0 0:00:03 0:00:03 --:--:-- 197
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
IndexError: list index out of range
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
IndexError: list index out of range



where XXX@YYY is the e-mail and ZZZ is the pwd.

[cbrocious]

Thanks Cody.

I had to actually install curl but now I get this output:



:~$ eltunes-auth XXX@YYY ZZZ

curl: (6) Couldn't resolve host 'phobos.apple.com'
sed: can't read /tmp/eltunes.authenticate.xml: No such file or directory
sed: can't read /tmp/eltunes.authenticate.xml: No such file or directory
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 665 100 665 0 0 197 0 0:00:03 0:00:03 --:--:-- 197
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
IndexError: list index out of range
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
IndexError: list index out of range



where XXX@YYY is the e-mail and ZZZ is the pwd.

Huh, that's a bit odd. It looks like the issue isn't anything with our script, but the fact that curl can't resolve phobos.apple.com, the main iTunes Store server. I'm honestly not sure why this would happen aside from something odd at your DNS server. Try adding an entry pointing phobos.apple.com to 17.250.236.65 in /etc/hosts and running the auth script again.

- Cody Brocious
CTO of Broken Fractal Ventures

[wrtpeeps]

I still dont understand why anyone would want to use an ipod and itunes at all.

Because there is NOTHING better.

Pretty straightforward reason right there.

[cardinals_fan]

Because there is NOTHING better.

Pretty straightforward reason right there.
Straightforward, but wrong (for me, anyway). I despise my iPod. It feels poorly made and cheap. And all my music is freely (and legally) downloaded oggs and mp3s.

[RiceMonster]

Because there is NOTHING better.

Pretty straightforward reason right there.

No, there's tons of much better software than iTunes. I don't own an iPod though so I can't comment on that, but I've heard too much about them dying out after a year and the like.

[Yes]

Because there is NOTHING better.

Pretty straightforward reason right there.

Not really. There's no question that there's better software than iTunes, and the iPod is way too expensive - I got an 8 GB Sansa Fuze with a MicroSD expansion slot and radio for $70 less than an 8 GB iPod Nano.

[wrtpeeps]

No, there's tons of much better software than iTunes. I don't own an iPod though so I can't comment on that, but I've heard too much about them dying out after a year and the like.

Believe me.

The ipod is currently the best music player on the market. And itunes is the best software that interfaces with it.

[RiceMonster]

Well I wouldn't doubt that iTunes works better with an iPod than anything else, but I can't stand iTunes. It annoys me so much.

[rune0077]

No, there's tons of much better software than iTunes. I don't own an iPod though so I can't comment on that, but I've heard too much about them dying out after a year and the like.

Nah, I had my iPod for many years. Now I've bought an iPhone and gave my girlfriend the iPod and it still works fine. Sound quality is also very exceptional, but it falls short on the formats it can play (it won't play ogg, which stinks). At the time I first bought the iPod, nothing could really compete in playback quality, but now a days I think most serious players has just as good playback. So these days, there may not be something better, but there's plenty just as good, and probably a lot cheaper too :)

[wrtpeeps]

Well I wouldn't doubt that iTunes works better with an iPod than anything else, but I can't stand iTunes. It annoys me so much.

Is there a proper/actual reason for this or is it just something like "it isn't free" ?

[rune0077]

Is there a proper/actual reason for this or is it just something like "it isn't free" ?

DRM. Only reason I ever needed to never buy anything from there.

[RiceMonster]

Is there a proper/actual reason for this or is it just something like "it isn't free" ?

Nah, I don't care if it's FOSS or not. I don't like the interface. It also annoyed me that when I added my 6000 song collection to iTunes I had to wait for hours as it "calculated gapless playback information" or something like that. Other audio players that use gapless playback had my collection up in 5 minutes. I also don't like how I had to sign up for the iTunes music store so I could download the cover art. That one really annoyed me. I wish it would actually watch my music folder too, rather than me having to add every new folder I add to my collection. Last but not least, I can't play flac or ogg files in it.

If you want a good windows audio player, I recommend foobar2000, or if you don't want to spend the time with it, winamp.


Nah, I had my iPod for many years. Now I've bought an iPhone and gave my girlfriend the iPod and it still works fine. Sound quality is also very exceptional, but it falls short on the formats it can play (it won't play ogg, which stinks). At the time I first bought the iPod, nothing could really compete in playback quality, but now a days I think most serious players has just as good playback. So these days, there may not be something better, but there's plenty just as good, and probably a lot cheaper too :)

Well that's good that you're enjoying it. Like I said though, I really can't comment because I've never owned one.

[cardinals_fan]

Is there a proper/actual reason for this or is it just something like "it isn't free" ?
iTunes is a horribly bloated and slow program that doesn't even do what I want. My iPod is junk and won't play the many ogg files in my music collection.

[Yes]

Is there a proper/actual reason for this or is it just something like "it isn't free" ?

It makes my dad's computer (3.0 GHz P4, 1 GB RAM) so slow that it becomes unusable until iTunes has been given a full five minutes to load. A program whose primary functions are to put music on an MP3 player and play music shouldn't be that bloated.

[wrtpeeps]

iTunes is a horribly bloated and slow program that doesn't even do what I want. My iPod is junk and won't play the many ogg files in my music collection.

Shouldn't have bought ogg then. ;) :lolflag:

[grossaffe]

Believe me.

The ipod is currently the best music player on the market. And itunes is the best software that interfaces with it.

what makes ipods the best music player on the market? is it because people flock to them like sheep or is it because they charge you a buttload for it?

[Yes]

Shouldn't have bought ogg then. ;) :lolflag:

Or rather, he shouldn't have bought an iPod.

[hellion0]

Well, I see these C&Ds as ridiculous. Since when is it circumventing DRM to allow users of a different OS to be able to use music they purchased? Last I checked, the makers of El Tunes aren't advocating or even mentioning "stealing" or pirating the DRM'd music obtained fron the iTunes store, only allowing for playback for an OS Apple themselves could support, but refuse to. These tools could even be used for a Linux port of iTunes, but instead they send out the shysters.

Shame on you, Apple. You've just stabbed a userbase you could be selling music to in the back.

[cardinals_fan]

Or rather, he shouldn't have bought an iPod.
It was a few years ago. I only used the iPod to backup my photos (I had no digital music). Now, it won't play my oggs. Such is life ;)

[Vadi]

Even if, iTunes is the best for you, I'm not sure how can you be content with being restricted to play the music you bought.

Personally, I'd expect it to play anywhere other music plays.

[Frak]

so, they are essentially backing music piracy then?



thats where they'd go if the music from i-tunes didnt work



apple is turning into another greedy company, just like M$
Corporations are morally-immune slaves whipped into action by the shareholders.

[thedevnull]

There are lot of torrent sites has Mac OS illegally. Why Apple is not taking action against them first?

Dude! Don't every download any OS or application for BT and it expect it to not be pre-infected with a ton of malware. Just don't do it unless you want to be a victim of identity theft, financial theft or even implicated in the crime of others via a bot network. Just don't do it.

Don't worry there is a great oversupply of corporate lawyers who will get to it. Oh and the MPAA and RIAA have a full supply of monkeys that are working on it. They need to find a job that actually has a social value! :)

[thedevnull]

Wow, Apple are really shooting themselves in the foot right now and making themselves look like fools.

That's just unbelievable. Twice and failed both times. Pitaful :-({|=

This is NOT the first time! This is part of a trend. Apple is NOT anything but an enemy of our efforts with Ubuntu and Open Source in general.

[Frak]

Dude! Don't every download any OS or application for BT and it expect it to not be pre-infected with a ton of malware. Just don't do it unless you want to be a victim of identity theft, financial theft or even implicated in the crime of others via a bot network. Just don't do it.

Don't worry there is a great oversupply of corporate lawyers who will get to it. Oh and the MPAA and RIAA have a full supply of monkeys that are working on it. They need to find a job that actually has a social value! :)
For the first part, you'd be suprised how many of them are pure clean. I know alot of the originators, such as the Turk Team.

As for the second part, I know that Bay Island won't take down any torrents, just because there are no laws against it. They've gotten many emails already about it.

[thedevnull]

Apple's letter to El Tune's latest host;

To Whom It May Concern:

We represent Apple Inc. ("Apple"). It has come to our attention that a website you host, www.el-tunes.com , is currently distributing
software designed to circumvent Apple's FairPlay system. The website is offering four such files for download -- available at
http://el-tunes.com/eltunes_0.2-0_i386.deb, http://el-tunes.com/eltunes_0.2-0_amd64.deb, http://el-tunes.com/eltunes-0.2_i386.tar.gz, and
http://www.el-tunes.com/eltunes-0.1.tar.gz -- and instructions for installation and/or use of same.

These files consist primarily of Apple copyrighted software. Unauthorized dissemination of copyrighted software is strictly prohibited. Because
they circumvent Apple's FairPlay digital rights management system, the files and/or their related executables may also be considered circumvention
devices under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The DMCA specifically prohibits the distribution and trafficking of circumvention devices.
I also note that such activities violate your Acceptable Use Policy.

Because the entire website is devoted to the illegal distribution of the aforementioned software, Apple requests that you immediately disable
www.el-tunes.com . Note that Host Dime, Inc., disabled the site last night and the operators simply relocated it to your facilities. Please notify
me by reply e-mail once you have disabled the site, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

El Tunes reply with a cartoon;

We are working on moving to a server that allows us to once again host the files directly, but in the meantime, Here's to you, Apple:
(photo in attachment)

LOL! That just made my day! :lolflag:

[thedevnull]

For the first part, you'd be suprised how many of them are pure clean. I know alot of the originators, such as the Turk Team.

As for the second part, I know that Bay Island won't take down any torrents, just because there are no laws against it. They've gotten many emails already about it.

Yeah, well I guess you also drive blindfolded - right? There is significant statistical data to show the trend that malware is common in p2p networks. So, if you want an infection and crappy software you can download OSX via p2p. Besides, Why even bother downloading OSX when you can use a real OS like Ubuntu? Why break the law when you can legally use the best OS (Ubuntu) legitimately for FREE forever! There is no reason to pirate when your best software is FREE and OPEN SOURCE! Ubuntu dwarfs OSX and will continue to do so.

In most cases this is a great way to fall prey to pre-installed malware. Lookup the science...

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1177080.1177124&coll=GUIDE&dl=
http://www.mcafee.com/us/local_content/reports/sage_japan_2008.pdf
http://www.scmagazineus.com/Fake-P2P-media-files-lead-to-adware-attack/article/109894/
http://www.realtime-websecurity.com/podcast/2006/12/peertopeer_networks_another_ma.html

[Frak]

Yeah, well I guess you also drive blindfolded - right? There is significant statistical data to show the trend that malware is common in p2p networks. So, if you want an infection and crappy software you can download OSX via p2p. Besides, Why even bother downloading OSX when you can use a real OS like Ubuntu? Why break the law when you can legally use the best OS (Ubuntu) legitimately for FREE forever! There is no reason to pirate when your best software is FREE and OPEN SOURCE! Ubuntu dwarfs OSX and will continue to do so.

In most cases this is a great way to fall prey to pre-installed malware. Lookup the science...

That's why I'm smart and use a private tracker.

EDIT
Also, to me, Ubuntu is a wannabe OS X. I don't mean that in a bad way per se. Ubuntu works toward Out of the box user friendliness, for which I think Apple has done and Ubuntu is still striving, but close.

[RiceMonster]

That's why I'm smart and use a private tracker.

EDIT
Also, to me, Ubuntu is a wannabe OS X. I don't mean that in a bad way per se. Ubuntu works toward Out of the box user friendliness, for which I think Apple has done and Ubuntu is still striving, but close.

Well, it will probably be even more of an "OSX wannabe" in the future since Mark Shuttleworth considers apple the gold standard. I'm not sure striving for out of the box user friendly ness alone makes it an OS X wannabe, though.

[thedevnull]

Well, it will probably be even more of an "OSX wannabe" in the future since Mark Shuttleworth considers apple the gold standard. I'm not sure striving for out of the box user friendly ness alone makes it an OS X wannabe, though.

Actually I think he was more referring to usability and simplicity but not implying that it would BE or BECOME an OSX clone.

I am happy that within the Ubuntu community I can use any window manager or desktop environment I want and I don't have to feel like I am using something that stinks as bad as OSX. Mark is a smart guy and I doubt he is arguing for a clone of Apple Inc's "OS".

:lolflag:

[RiceMonster]

Yes you're right, I just felt the need to point that out since he thought Ubuntu was like OSX.

[hanzomon4]

Well, it will probably be even more of an "OSX wannabe" in the future since Mark Shuttleworth considers apple the gold standard. I'm not sure striving for out of the box user friendly ness alone makes it an OS X wannabe, though.

Apple is the gold standard in ease of use, simplicity, style, and Totalitarian tech.

[thedevnull]

That's why I'm smart and use a private tracker.

EDIT
Also, to me, Ubuntu is a wannabe OS X. I don't mean that in a bad way per se. Ubuntu works toward Out of the box user friendliness, for which I think Apple has done and Ubuntu is still striving, but close.

I understand your opinion but I don't think OSX is a major achievement but merely the first usable OS from Apple INC.

A private tracker has nothing to do with whether the binary file you are downloading is infected with malware or not...

[Frak]

A private tracker has nothing to do with whether the binary file you are downloading is infected with malware or not...

Yes it does. Only trusted members are allowed to upload/download torrents. This heavily lessens the amount of malware to nearly none.

[mrgnash]

so, they are essentially backing music piracy then?



thats where they'd go if the music from i-tunes didnt work



apple is turning into another greedy company, just like M$

Turning into? Where have you been? :lolflag:

Apple are as bad, or worse, than MS, and have been for quite some time.

[mrgnash]

Is there a proper/actual reason for this or is it just something like "it isn't free" ?

How about the fact that it isn't anywhere near as intuitive as Rhythmbox, Banshee, or Amarok? And that it's a horrible, ad-laden resource hog?

[fatality_uk]

*sigh*


These files consist primarily of Apple copyrighted software.

Apple is now turning into Mini-Microsoft in an Austin Powers kinda way. Laughable really. I would love to see the devs be able to call their bluff and ask for the code the debs infringe!

[Atomic Dog]

I find it amazing how many apple fanboys dismiss Apple's tactics while bashing MS.

At least I don't kiss a Steve Jobs poster goodnight every evening before I go to bed.

[Vadi]

I don't consider Apple to be the gold standard of user-friendliness really. They're certainly doing better than Windows in some areas, and that's about it.

One must also realize that there is no "other DE" for Apple, there is only one they have to care about and can work on. On Ubuntu... you get so many people 'whining' about KDE, Xfce, and whatnot for all of them to be supported.

[wrtpeeps]

what makes ipods the best music player on the market? is it because people flock to them like sheep or is it because they charge you a buttload for it?

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

Does not buying one make you feel like you are making a difference, or make you feel somewhat important? :lolflag:

It sounds to me like you class yourself as a higher being because you can withstand the evil, corrupt, world-ending lure of the iphone! OH NOES. :lolflag::lolflag:

[Closed_Port]

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

Does not buying one make you feel like you are making a difference, or make you feel somewhat important? :lolflag:

It sounds to me like you class yourself as a higher being because you can withstand the evil, corrupt, world-ending lure of the iphone! OH NOES. :lolflag::lolflag:
Does personally attacking someone because he dares not to understand the attraction of the iPod make you feel special?

Does plastering your post with smileys make you feel important?

[wrtpeeps]

Does personally attacking someone because he dares not to understand the attraction of the iPod make you feel special?

Does plastering your post with smileys make you feel important?

Personally attacking?

Yea, right, pull the other one.

[Vadi]

-snip-

It is a personal attack 'covered up' by a ton of smileys to make it sound amusing. But it really isn't. So lets not continue on that.

[mrgnash]

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

Does not buying one make you feel like you are making a difference, or make you feel somewhat important? :lolflag:

It sounds to me like you class yourself as a higher being because you can withstand the evil, corrupt, world-ending lure of the iphone! OH NOES. :lolflag::lolflag:

Don't eat yellow snow. Don't drink the Apple kool-aid.

[Vince4Amy]

To be fair when I tried OSX I didn't think it was that user friendly. I'd use Windows or KDE any day over OSX.

[Polygon]

-snip to remove annoying smilies-

no, i dont have an ipod and i tell people ipods suck not because i feel like im a higher being, its because the ipod does infact suck compared to the alternatives, but not let get ourselfs off topic.

DRM sucks. plain and simple. If you have been reading the news lately, the yahoo! music store recently shut itself down. that kinda sucks for all of the people who BOUGHT music from it that required authentication from the yahoo servers to play it on a computer. With those servers shut down, your music collection you bought from them is now rendered useless.

Same thing happened to microsoft with their msn music store.

and not to mention techincally el tunes really isnt doing anything morally wrong, they are allowing ITMS playback on a platform that has no offical support from apple. If there was itunes port for linux, then it would be a different story, but there is none. el tunes doesnt even strip the encryption from the files, it just talks with the itms servers and authorizes your computer for playback. El tunes is doing what apple has failed to do, and they are getting pissed about it. The solution of course, is a itunes port for linux. Or at least a way to play the songs.

[Vadi]

First RC available! Adds pause/play support, and GUI for authentication: http://digg.com/linux_unix/El_Tunes_Release_Candidate_1_now_available

[Mr. Picklesworth]

el tunes doesnt even strip the encryption from the files, it just talks with the itms servers and authorizes your computer for playback. El tunes is doing what apple has failed to do, and they are getting pissed about it. The solution of course, is a itunes port for linux. Or at least a way to play the songs.

Aha, I have been wondering that! That's really handy to know. Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a source we can link to for that?

Still, wouldn't El Tunes make it easy to create encryption breaking software, or does Apple use super magical encryption?

Anyway, thank God for torrents -- and torrent hosts that aren't afraid of Apple.

[Vadi]

Just look at the sources, heh. El Tunes disguises itself as iTunes and gets authorization the same way iTunes does. As for decoding, I think it uses an iTunes dll to play through it (since the package requires mono, and it has a .dll). But, that's just speculation, I don't know how it really works.

[daeken]

Just look at the sources, heh. El Tunes disguises itself as iTunes and gets authorization the same way iTunes does. As for decoding, I think it uses an iTunes dll to play through it (since the package requires mono, and it has a .dll). But, that's just speculation, I don't know how it really works.

Just a note, the DLLs are our own -- the bulk of our plugin is implemented on .NET for portability reasons.

- Cody Brocious

[Vadi]

Thanks for the clarification.