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View Full Version : Shuttleworth uses Kubuntu, aims to make it first-class distro



linbetwin
November 6th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Read this (http://www.kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitment.php).

panickedthumb
November 6th, 2005, 05:07 PM
huh, that's interesting. I hope this doesn't make the Gnome Ubuntu the second rate distro. I'd like to see them both (and maybe even xubuntu) given equal focus.

-Rick-
November 6th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Heh thats good news after Novell decided to drop KDE :)

Lovechild
November 6th, 2005, 05:10 PM
I would seriously like this be supported by an actual statement from Mark.. I mean I could say "Today in my livingroom, Mark Shuttleworth announced that he is a martian", it would carry the same validity.

Now I don't doubt that Kubuntu is an excellent distro, I'm just relutant to believe blanket statement on the internet.

linbetwin
November 6th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Hmmm... The news yesterday was tha SUSE, a KDE-centric distro, was switching to Gnome.

fuscia
November 6th, 2005, 05:13 PM
as long as none of it ends up being PUbuntu.

Lovechild
November 6th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Hmmm... The news yesterday was tha SUSE, a KDE-centric distro, was switching to Gnome.

In honestly that statement was on SuSE Linux Enterprise Server and Novell Linux Desktop.

tanari
November 6th, 2005, 05:29 PM
It's bad news for me :(.
I switched to Ubuntu only because it was gnome-based.
I hope they will continiue supporting and improving gnome, but now I'am not sure....

I don't like distros like SuSE and Mandriva because their configuration apps (YaST, control centers, update managers and etc.) are QT apps and in GNOME they look ugly. For now Ubuntu is only one good gnome-based distro. If Kubuntu will be main distro and developers won't improve and use gnome.....
I don't know what to do, I don't want to use windows again and don't have money for mac.

panickedthumb
November 6th, 2005, 05:32 PM
be patient. I seriously doubt gnome will get put on the backburner

xequence
November 6th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Kubuntu IS already a first class distro. I feel out of all the distros, Ubuntu/Kubuntu gives the most balanced attention to KDE and Gnome.

Lovechild
November 6th, 2005, 05:55 PM
It's bad news for me :(.
I switched to Ubuntu only because it was gnome-based.
I hope they will continiue supporting and improving gnome, but now I'am not sure....

I don't like distros like SuSE and Mandriva because their configuration apps (YaST, control centers, update managers and etc.) are QT apps and in GNOME they look ugly. For now Ubuntu is only one good gnome-based distro. If Kubuntu will be main distro and developers won't improve and use gnome.....
I don't know what to do, I don't want to use windows again and don't have money for mac.

Maybe Fedora is for you, it's heavily GNOME based with a strong tradition of writing all their vendor tools using gtk or pygtk.

panickedthumb
November 6th, 2005, 05:57 PM
or SUSE (since they've decided to go toward Gnome) or still Ubuntu, since there's no indication that Gnome is going to go away any time soon.

misGnomer
November 6th, 2005, 06:05 PM
I'm just worried that somehow the plain "ubuntu" , without the K, will increasingly cease to be the simple option with a clear mission. The division into Ubuntu and Kubuntu may end up splitting the original Ubuntu community with an African meaning and a simple desktop environment on one side and the K-prefixing group on the other into two parallel universes.

Until now, Ubuntu was the only distro concentrating on the less complicated and less graphically "busy" Gnome desktop, and its "keeping-it-simple" policy made it an ideal introduction to Linux newbies. Instead of creating a whole new parallel experience on the desktop level, I would have preferred to see emphasis on making KDE/Qt applications work and appear under the original Gnome desktop as seamlessly as possible, as per freedesktop.org efforts.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software

`GooZ´
November 6th, 2005, 06:10 PM
I think it's not much to worry about. All that's being said here is that there will be more focus on KDE since there are many people using it, and it's not yet completely stable (so I've heard here on the forums).
I'm a happy gnome user myself, but I don't think I should worry about this, since more development in Kubuntu doesn't nessecairily means less development in Ubuntu.

GeneralZod
November 6th, 2005, 06:13 PM
It's bad news for me :(.
I switched to Ubuntu only because it was gnome-based.
I hope they will continiue supporting and improving gnome, but now I'am not sure...

GNOME is, quite simply, a cornerstone of Ubuntu; pigs will fly before Ubuntu stops supporting and improving it :)


Kubuntu IS already a first class distro. I feel out of all the distros, Ubuntu/Kubuntu gives the most balanced attention to KDE and Gnome.

I think he probably meant "first class" as in "first class citizen" rather than in terms of quality. Kubuntu, to me at least, has always seemed more of a red-headed step-child than a favourite son :)

Arktis
November 6th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Well, this is good news for me. I've kept away from Kubuntu because of rampant stability issues, meaning the ammount of configuration I have to do to get comfortable with it just hasn't been worth the effort. Ubuntu has been simpler and loads more stable. If the dev teams want to focus more on kde now, I'm all for it. Excepting of course the fact that I absolutely HATE Konquerer. Yuck. And there's also the issue of synaptec. It's awesome, and I don't know of anything for kde that matches it.

panickedthumb
November 6th, 2005, 06:47 PM
yikes, I hope it wasn't my comment that fueled a lot of this.

What I meant was, I hope that this doesn't take attention away from Gnome and shift it to KDE, instead of getting more effort on KDE along with the great effort on Gnome. It was pure speculation about possibilities, I had no evidence, I was merely musing.

In reality, I never seriously thought this would be the case. In retrospect I should have filtered the information between my brain and my keyboard instead of letting it flow directly ;) I THINK that what this means is that we may have two different but equal distributions eventually, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

stimpack
November 6th, 2005, 06:48 PM
Well, this is good news for me. I've kept away from Kubuntu because of rampant stability issues, meaning the ammount of configuration I have to do to get comfortable with it just hasn't been worth the effort. Ubuntu has been simpler and loads more stable. If the dev teams want to focus more on kde now, I'm all for it. Excepting of course the fact that I absolutely HATE Konquerer. Yuck. And there's also the issue of synaptec. It's awesome, and I don't know of anything for kde that matches it.

Synaptic works in KDE too dude, in fact I use it, though Adept may be worth a look in the future.

`GooZ´
November 6th, 2005, 06:48 PM
It's awesome, and I don't know of anything for kde that matches it.
Maybe Kynaptic (https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer/2004-03-10)?;)
As for Konqueror, I think you're absolutely right :D

panickedthumb
November 6th, 2005, 06:55 PM
yeah that seems to be the dividing factor. Some people adore Konqueror, some hate it. I personally hate it. If there was a better QT file manager, I'd use KDE more often. Maybe that can be a new goal for the kubuntu team ;)

Now if we can just change the name...

Suzan
November 6th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Uhhh... i heard about this an was a little... hm... shocked.

But in my opinion, it wasn't so good to split it in "Ubuntu" and "KUbuntu". It's both Ubuntu, one with GNOME, one with KDE isn't it? The name Ubuntu has such a lovely meaning. Why destroying it?

I think, it would be great to have both on the CD, GNOME and KDE. But this would be a little to much data for a normal CD, I guess. So I'm for "Ubuntu with GNOME" and "Ubuntu with KDE".

So I hope, they disregard GNOME and make Ubuntu with KDE to such an great distro that Ubuntu with GNOME is.

imagine
November 6th, 2005, 07:14 PM
I don't know why there's so much fuss about Gnome and KDE, which one is better or how many distributions use one or the other. It's just as some people would be afraid that "his" or "her" desktop environment of choice is going to die the next day.
Gnome and KDE are different DEs, they serve different purposes and so they both will continue to exist. Tomorrow, next year and also in future. Call me prophet...

newbie2
November 6th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Read this (http://www.kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitment.php).
it is also on /.
http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/05/11/06/1413237.shtml?tid=121&tid=106

raublekick
November 6th, 2005, 07:49 PM
My take on this is that Mark wants Kubuntu (and KDE) to be equal to Ubuntu (and Gnome). It's all about choice, but it's not much of a choice on any distro when one is considered more developed than the other.

How many distros have equally good Gnome/KDE support? Not many to my knowledge. I always hear that Gnome is Suse is not quite up to par with KDE, and KDE in (K)ubuntu is not quite up to par with Gnome.

Personally I wish I could combine the best features of both into one super-excellent DE :)

raublekick
November 6th, 2005, 07:54 PM
<edit> double post from whent he forums got hit

poofyhairguy
November 6th, 2005, 09:56 PM
Uhhh... i heard about this an was a little... hm... shocked.

But in my opinion, it wasn't so good to split it in "Ubuntu" and "KUbuntu". It's both Ubuntu, one with GNOME, one with KDE isn't it? The name Ubuntu has such a lovely meaning. Why destroying it?

I think, it would be great to have both on the CD, GNOME and KDE. But this would be a little to much data for a normal CD, I guess. So I'm for "Ubuntu with GNOME" and "Ubuntu with KDE".

So I hope, they disregard GNOME and make Ubuntu with KDE to such an great distro that Ubuntu with GNOME is.

The problem is to a new user, what is KDE and what is Gnome? What are these two things? How do you explain that the whole DESKTOP can be different but the OS can somehow magically be the same to Ex-Windows or OSX users that identify their OS by its desktop.

So with both "Ubuntu with KDE" or "Ubuntu with Gnome" there is two words in each phrase that a new user has no idea what they mean and cannot begin to understand till they have gotten their feet wet.

But with "Kubuntu" and "Ubuntu" its presented as two totally different OSes. You might say "thats confusing as well," but not really when you think about it. Ubuntu's marketing stradegy is a word of mouth one, so when people hear or read about an Ubuntu they will get the exact name. Kubuntu or Ubuntu. Then they go try that one. They do not have to hear "Ubuntu" and then make a decision- "one with KDE or one with Gnome? What are these things?" Instead their best friend says "I use kubuntu, you should try it" and that what they try without having to know what KDE or Gnome is first. Why does it matter for most people really, what desktop they use?

az
November 6th, 2005, 10:06 PM
Okay everybody. I was there. This is not a big deal.

Although my kids had croup, I left them at home with my wife to attend UbuntuLoveDay.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/LoveDay

One of the presentation was for Kubuntu:
http://kubuntu.org/~jr/kubuntu-below-zero/

Mark Shuttleworth would introduce the next presentation as well as end up feilding questions from the last one. As a passing comment about Kubuntu, he mentioned that he was running kubuntu Breezy on his laptop. It did not at all seem like he was saying that he switched all of his boxes to Kubuntu and was leaving Ubuntu behind.

He also made a comment about how the music player (amarok?) would not keep his favorites from rhythmbox, so he was still using that. He asked the developers to see if they could address that issue.

One issue that was mentioned was that people who are too smart to use the add/remove applications or the package manager often wonder if kde apps can run in Gnome and so forth. I blame the doc team :)

Jeff Waugh (Gnome release manager and Canonical's third employee) noted that kubuntu was planned from early on. He showed a photo of the whiteboard they had used to brainstorm and it had the word "kubuntu" on it as well as a whole bunch of stuff about the CC and Ubuntu governance, diagrams and "better Fedora than Fedora" and so forth.

Okay?

poofyhairguy
November 6th, 2005, 10:08 PM
Jeff Waugh (Gnome release manager and Canonical's third employee) noted that kubuntu was planned from early on. He showed a photo of the whiteboard they had used to brainstorm and it had the word "kubuntu" on it as well as a whole bunch of stuff about the CC and Ubuntu governance, diagrams and "better Fedora than Fedora" and so forth.

Okay?

That makes sense.

panickedthumb
November 6th, 2005, 10:22 PM
better fedora than fedora. I love it.

Thanks for clearing stuff up Andrew

Linoman
November 6th, 2005, 10:23 PM
Yes so Mark Shuttleworth uses Kubuntu and likes it? So? Lets all face it the only big differernce between Ubuntu and Kubuntu is that one is optermized for Gnome and the other for KDE. I mean isn't it the same system deep down? Personally I like both KDE and Gnome so I am planning to have two systems one running Ubuntu and the other Kubuntu.

Ubuntu or Gnome isn't going to die out or anything and neither is Kubuntu. I think that Mark Shuttleworth meant that equal amount of work will go into Kubuntu.

az
November 6th, 2005, 10:32 PM
Ubuntu or Gnome isn't going to die out or anything and neither is Kubuntu. I think that Mark Shuttleworth meant that equal amount of work will go into Kubuntu.

Yes, I think he has tremendous respect for the efforts of the community. He was very proud to point out that Kubuntu is a community effort, and not something that they support directly. That community involvement is a goal that he seems *very* proud to be reaching.

newbie2
November 7th, 2005, 12:06 AM
The problem is to a new user, what is KDE and what is Gnome? What are these two things? How do you explain that the whole DESKTOP can be different but the OS can somehow magically be the same to Ex-Windows or OSX users that identify their OS by its desktop.

So with both "Ubuntu with KDE" or "Ubuntu with Gnome" there is two words in each phrase that a new user has no idea what they mean and cannot begin to understand till they have gotten their feet wet.

But with "Kubuntu" and "Ubuntu" its presented as two totally different OSes. You might say "thats confusing as well," but not really when you think about it. Ubuntu's marketing stradegy is a word of mouth one, so when people hear or read about an Ubuntu they will get the exact name. Kubuntu or Ubuntu. Then they go try that one. They do not have to hear "Ubuntu" and then make a decision- "one with KDE or one with Gnome? What are these things?" Instead their best friend says "I use kubuntu, you should try it" and that what they try without having to know what KDE or Gnome is first. Why does it matter for most people really, what desktop they use?

maybe it should be renamed? in UBUNTU-G and UBUNTU-K ? :???:

panickedthumb
November 7th, 2005, 12:12 AM
the slashdot/osnews trolls had a field day with this. Stuff like "lets call the Gnome Ubuntu "Uglibuntu" and the KDE "beautifuluntu" or some crap like that.

So azz, you were there, is the current model going to remain the same, with the community totally supporting Kubuntu? Or are we going to see more Canonical support? Shipit cds? Etc... I guess the best bet is to wait for Mark to reply, which he's sure to do.

lotusleaf
November 7th, 2005, 01:15 AM
Thanks, Mark Shuttleworth, we need more people like you.

az
November 7th, 2005, 01:22 AM
So azz, you were there, is the current model going to remain the same, with the community totally supporting Kubuntu? Or are we going to see more Canonical support? Shipit cds? Etc... I guess the best bet is to wait for Mark to reply, which he's sure to do.

If Ubuntu-Express ships with Dapper, that will reduce the cost of producing cds since only one will be shipped, instead of the two (live and install). In that case, there will be both Ubuntu and Kubuntu shipit cds. I forget if Edubuntu cds are planned for Dapper...

panickedthumb
November 7th, 2005, 01:25 AM
If Ubuntu-Express ships with Dapper, that will reduce the cost of producing cds since only one will be shipped, instead of the two (live and install). In that case, there will be both Ubuntu and Kubuntu shipit cds. I forget if Edubuntu cds are planned for Dapper...
nice. I can't wait.

claydoh
November 7th, 2005, 05:49 AM
For me as a Kubuntu user, I kinda prefer it to be a secondary thing to Ubuntu, though any extra development help would be appreciatedby many :)

gord
November 7th, 2005, 06:02 AM
more support for kubuntu would be super, smashing, great. i use ubuntu because i prefer gnome but we are all one lovin mush of a project here not a few seperate projects that happen to have the same suffix, more support for kubuntu meens more choice which is nice :). id even use kde apps more often if they didn't all start with bloomin k's.. i know coders have no immagination when it comes to titles but really ;) its nearly getting as bad with gnome and all these G's.

Sirin
November 7th, 2005, 06:53 AM
Konqueror sucks. It's an integrated browser, don't you people get it? Hello! Does IE and SPYWARE pop into your minds people?! Come on, now! Use a REAL browser. Ditch Konqueror and http://browsehappy.com/buttons/bh_150x40_anim.gif (htp://www.browsehappy.com/). ;)

<sarcasm>
Yup. That is the absolute worse browser. I would use Internet Explorer instead of using that piece of s**t.
</sarcasm>

Actually, unlike Internet Explorer, Konqueror is integrated into KDE, not the system files or the kernel. Internet Explorer, however, is so integrated into the system, that it virtually can be called a part of Windows itself. Konqueror has only ever had four vulnerabilities, compared to Internet Explorer's 200+. Just wanted to untangle some things. ;)

sabdfl
November 7th, 2005, 08:03 AM
I've responded to this thread by creating a new message, at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=87000 that should address some of the comments in this thread.

panickedthumb
November 7th, 2005, 08:04 AM
welcome to the board sabdfl!

RawMustard
November 7th, 2005, 11:07 AM
<sarcasm>
Yup. That is the absolute worse browser. I would use Internet Explorer instead of using that piece of s**t.
</sarcasm>

Actually, unlike Internet Explorer, Konqueror is integrated into KDE, not the system files or the kernel. Internet Explorer, however, is so integrated into the system, that it virtually can be called a part of Windows itself. Konqueror has only ever had four vulnerabilities, compared to Internet Explorer's 200+. Just wanted to untangle some things. ;)

Only four that have been found, I wonder if that number would stay the same if 90% of the world was using it?

To me this just sounds like the hype around Firefox being infinitely more secure than IE, but that was proven wrong once it's popularity significantly increased. Not that I believe Firefox is less secure than IE, technically it has to be more secure, but it's not the saving grace it was made out to be and claiming Konqueror's integration in KDE is more secure than IE at this early stage, is being a little niave - IMHO that is :)

Arktis
November 7th, 2005, 04:32 PM
Synaptic works in KDE too dude, in fact I use it, though Adept may be worth a look in the future.

Sure, but synaptec would look super-ugly in kde. Kynaptec as GooZ mentioned is probably the best option.

As for Konquerer... I want a better option as a drop-in replacement, and I want to be able to remove Konquerer. That doesn't mean I'll get what I want, but I can dream. =p

I'm gonna check out that other thread.