Getting a refund for my OS

[destructaball]

I recently bought a computer from HP and I would like to get a refund for my operating system I don't care who I get the money off or what lengths I have to go to to get it and I have a lot of time on my hands because I am on holiday. If anyone could shed some light on what I should do it would help a lot.

I have not agreed to the microsoft EULA yet and fully intend to decline it and put ubuntu on my computer.

I read some articles on people getting money from dell for their windows licence because of a clause in the vista EULA which says that that the retailer should give a refund to the people.

Unfortunately for me I bought the PC from costco who is the retailer and the manufacturer is HP. Therefore according to the EULA I should get the money off costco. When I called costco to get my refund they said that they only bought the PC's from HP and had not agreed to anything to the effect that they would refund the money. This means that they will not give me the refund.

I then called microsoft for my refund. Judging from how evil microsoft are I fully expected satan himself to pick up but a very friendly customer service advisor told me that HP had to give me a refund and microsoft did not do refunds because HP had modified the OEM software and agreed to do refunds. She was even nice enough to give me an email to this effect.

"Hello David,



This is to inform you that Microsoft does not provide any refunds/replacements for the OEM software which comes pre-installed on the computer. The primary contact for the OEM software is always you computer manufacturer.



So please get in touch with your computer manufacturer to get refund for the software that has come pre-installed on your computer."

I then contacted HP who effectively said screw you we're not going to pay you a penny no matter how much I highlighted what other companies said. I am happy to take any one of the companies to a small claims court but I don't know who. I live in the UK. Thanks in advanced.

[dracayr]

In france, someone won before court and got his money back... maybe you want to try that.

dracayr

[tuxxy]

Good luck but this is why I be OS-free systems, maybe you should write to HP...

The thing is if your software is OEM one install will void the software anyway, so its gonna be useless to HP which is why they will prob make it difficult to get the rfund.

[daleus]

You say you live in the UK, but costco? aren't they american? Anyhow they know the least about computers and their respective licences, so they are the weak link, copy the thing you mentioned that says they give refunds and take it in.

Keep pestering, they'll do something eventually.

[destructaball]

So who should I sue. I need a good basis for going for them. None of them are giving any ground. They're slipery bastards

[tuxxy]

HP I would think, they built the system so purchased the OEM software

[kellemes]

Helpful link? http://equiliberate.org/?q=node/3

[Vivaldi Gloria]

If I were you I'd write write fsf or fsf-europe (depending where you are) for guidence.

[bapoumba]

Moved to Cafe.

In france, someone won before court and got his money back... maybe you want to try that.

dracayr
Yes, I think it was along with a consumer organisation and Détaxe (http://www.racketiciel.info/) (link in French).

[PHATSPEED7x]

Interesting. Never heard of such a thing with a computer. Now a vehicle I've gotten money off for swapping stuff.

[aysiu]

In my experience, companies don't really care what you have to say unless you get the Better Business Bureau involved.

I think the UK equivalent to the US BBB is Trading Standards Central (http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/). I may be wrong about that, though.

[timzak]

In my opinion this borders on a frivolous lawsuit and waste of tax dollars just to get back what, $50-$100 US dollars? If you knew the PC came with an OS to begin with, then why didn't you shop for a PC without an OS? Or build one yourself?

[Thirtysixway]

You're honestly going to sue over something you agreed to buy? It's not as though you bought the computer not knowing it came with Windows.

I'm all for getting a refund if you return the computer, but you can't buy a peperoni pizza and return the peperonies. Same thing should apply here.

The only reason I'm upset is because you're the type who would sue someone because your coffee cup didn't warn you it was hot.

[motang]

I recently bought a computer from HP and I would like to get a refund for my operating system I don't care who I get the money off or what lengths I have to go to to get it and I have a lot of time on my hands because I am on holiday. If anyone could shed some light on what I should do it would help a lot.

I have not agreed to the microsoft EULA yet and fully intend to decline it and put ubuntu on my computer.

I read some articles on people getting money from dell for their windows licence because of a clause in the vista EULA which says that that the retailer should give a refund to the people.

Unfortunately for me I bought the PC from costco who is the retailer and the manufacturer is HP. Therefore according to the EULA I should get the money off costco. When I called costco to get my refund they said that they only bought the PC's from HP and had not agreed to anything to the effect that they would refund the money. This means that they will not give me the refund.

I then called microsoft for my refund. Judging from how evil microsoft are I fully expected satan himself to pick up but a very friendly customer service advisor told me that HP had to give me a refund and microsoft did not do refunds because HP had modified the OEM software and agreed to do refunds. She was even nice enough to give me an email to this effect.

"Hello David,



This is to inform you that Microsoft does not provide any refunds/replacements for the OEM software which comes pre-installed on the computer. The primary contact for the OEM software is always you computer manufacturer.



So please get in touch with your computer manufacturer to get refund for the software that has come pre-installed on your computer."

I then contacted HP who effectively said screw you we're not going to pay you a penny no matter how much I highlighted what other companies said. I am happy to take any one of the companies to a small claims court but I don't know who. I live in the UK. Thanks in advanced.

Good luck bro, I wasn't able to get anything from HP but then again I didn't try very hard. I got my HP laptop two years ago and I was busy at the moment with school and work so I didn't have a lot of free time. To this day I haven't bothered with XP, matter of fact I formatted the partition on the hard drive and have Ubuntu on the hard drive. I don't need XP at all especially Home edition. Let us know if you have any luck and we shall be rooting for your success. :)

[songshu]

you will get it, just stay calm and reasonable

The calm and reasonable only has to do with the fact that it will make it harder for them to drop the phone on you, at a certain moment they will come to the conclusion that it will be cheaper to refund then you wasting there time..

I've been there on numerous occasions and i can assure you it takes a lot of calls and letters but eventually you will get there, make sure they end up with a big file with letters and calls and someone in 2nd, 3rd whatever line will eventually say "just give this guy what he wants and be done with it"

good luck

[steeleyuk]

In my opinion this borders on a frivolous lawsuit and waste of tax dollars just to get back what, $50-$100 US dollars? If you knew the PC came with an OS to begin with, then why didn't you shop for a PC without an OS? Or build one yourself?

Thats not the point though. The EULA says to the effect that if there is something you do not agree with in the license, you can return to the manufacturer for a refund. It doesn't have to be returning just because you don't want the OS, even though that is a valid reason as well.

For me, if HP don't honour the terms of the EULA then it should invalidate the rest of the license for me. And that would include all the stuff about installing on more than one computer...

[damis648]

You're honestly going to sue over something you agreed to buy? It's not as though you bought the computer not knowing it came with Windows.

I'm all for getting a refund if you return the computer, but you can't buy a peperoni pizza and return the peperonies. Same thing should apply here.

The only reason I'm upset is because you're the type who would sue someone because your coffee cup didn't warn you it was hot.

But in the EULA you agree to when you buy the computer with OEM Windows, it clearly states you can get a refund. BTW, good luck for the OP! Hope you go through with it AND get your money back!

[damis648]

Thats not the point though. The EULA says to the effect that if there is something you do not agree with in the license, you can return to the manufacturer for a refund. It doesn't have to be returning just because you don't want the OS, even though that is a valid reason as well.

For me, if HP don't honour the terms of the EULA then it should invalidate the rest of the license for me. And that would include all the stuff about installing on more than one computer...

:wink:

[songshu]

You're honestly going to sue over something you agreed to buy? It's not as though you bought the computer not knowing it came with Windows.

you don't OWN a copy. they sort of lent it to you.


I'm all for getting a refund if you return the computer, but you can't buy a peperoni pizza and return the peperonies. Same thing should apply here.


and if the pizza guy gave you a license to sign before handing you the pizza that said he would not be responsible in anyway if the pepperoni would malfunction or cause loss of data ??



The only reason I'm upset is because you're the type who would sue someone because your coffee cup didn't warn you it was hot.
[/QUOTE]


isn't it the fact that they do warn you and ask you to agree that gives you the right and opportunity to say no and disagree?

[timzak]

Thats not the point though. The EULA says to the effect that if there is something you do not agree with in the license, you can return to the manufacturer for a refund. It doesn't have to be returning just because you don't want the OS, even though that is a valid reason as well.

For me, if HP don't honour the terms of the EULA then it should invalidate the rest of the license for me. And that would include all the stuff about installing on more than one computer...

I'm not familiar with the EULA, so I cannot comment on whether what you say is accurate or not. For me, the point is, just because there is a legal loophole to go after something (assuming that is the case) does not make it right to do so. For all the time and effort it will take on the individual's part, in the end, will it be worth the small amount that the refund will be? Will it have been worth the legal fees and tax dollars?

Why would you intentionally buy something that you don't want, then try to get reimbursed for it? There are system manufacturers that use Linux distros, so why intentionally buy from someone who uses an OS you don't want, then waste a bunch of time and money to get a few bucks back?

Whatever legal loopholes make it valid to do have nothing to do with whether it makes an common sense.

[Dunrobin]

So who should I sue. I need a good basis for going for them. None of them are giving any ground. They're slipery bastards

I am curious as to just what basis you think that you have for suing anyone in the first place. Did you not know that the computer you were purchasing had an OS pre-installed on it?

If you had purchased a computer that was advertised as having "No OS" and then later discovered that it did have an OS and in fact you paid extra because of it, you would have grounds for fraud, but that certainly doesn't appear to be the case. I don't think you have any reasonable grounds for a lawsuit, not that seems to matter much anymore.

[gn2]

In the EULA it states that if you cannot get a refund from the supplier, then you should contact Microsoft direct.


By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the
software. Instead, return it to the retailer for a refund or credit. If you cannot obtain a refund
there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft’s
refund policies. See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call (800)
MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm.

http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows%20Vista_Ultimate_English_36d0fe99-75e4-4875-8153-889cf5105718.pdf

[aysiu]

If the EULA gives you the legal right to not accept its terms and gives you the right to receive a refund from the OEM who sold you the license, then you do, in fact, have a legal right to demand a refund from the OEM.

Does the OEM have to make the process easy for you? Absolutely not, and they will not either, based on what I've read about refunds of this type (yes, even the successful ones).

If you want to sue them, I can guarantee your legal fees will be far more than the cost of the OEM license you're trying to get a refund on. If you really want a refund, politely ask for one in a letter and cite the appropriate lines in the EULA that provide for a refund. If HP doesn't comply, you can escalate the request to the Trading Standards.

I have to say, though, that I agree with others who say "If you don't want something, don't buy it." It's a lot easier to buy a non-Windows computer than to buy a Windows computer and try to return the Windows license. Not only that, but buying a no-OS or Linux-preinstalled computer sends the message to OEMs that there is a demand for non-Windows computers and that non-Windows computers can be profitable for them.

For all they know, you're just trying to get some money from them and then install a pirated version of Windows... or even just keep the installed version and just return the disk to them.

[steeleyuk]

Funnily enough... (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/21/vista-refund)

[fiddledd]

It seems that in the USA everybody sues everybody else, which is a neat trick if you think about it. This wouldn't concern me in the slightest, except for some strange reason, here in the UK, we seem to imitate the Americans. It's like we no longer have an original idea, we have to copy America.
As an example, my Son was driving his car and his girlfriend was a passenger, and he had an accident. Her first thought was "How much can I get out of this". In fact she claimed off my son's insurance, encouraged to do so by his insurance company. As I said, the culture seems to have spread to the UK.

Before I get flamed, I have no experience of America apart from what I read, see, and hear. If I have been misinformed by the Media, blame them, not me. :)

[gn2]

If you want to sue them, I can guarantee your legal fees will be far more than the cost of the OEM license you're trying to get a refund on.

Not in the UK.

You can go to the small claims court for free without even going there in person or ever speaking to a lawyer.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

But you might have to pay fees later if you lose......

[aysiu]

Not in the UK.

You can go to the small claims court for free without even going there in person or ever speaking to a lawyer.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

But you might have to pay fees later if you lose......
Okay. That's good to know, I guess.

Nevertheless, the time and energy involved in pursuing the case in court will probably not be worth the cost of the license, right?

[Vivaldi Gloria]

I'm not familiar with the EULA, so I cannot comment on whether what you say is accurate or not. For me, the point is, just because there is a legal loophole to go after something (assuming that is the case) does not make it right to do so.

You are entering dodgy areas when you start talking about moral rights. What's moral to you may not be moral to someone else. That's why we have laws.

I believe on the contrary to you that the customer has every moral right to return the OS as it's the very essence of the freedom of choice. I like the laptop but why should I pay for the OS if I'm not going to use it and if there is an option to but the laptop without the OS (i.e. by returning the OS).


For all the time and effort it will take on the individual's part, in the end, will it be worth the small amount that the refund will be? Will it have been worth the legal fees and tax dollars?

Not everything is about money. Freedom means more to some people than 200$. I applaud destructaball for taking the moral highground here. How can these big company's think that the laws don't apply to them and just ignore the EULA when they don't like it?


Why would you intentionally buy something that you don't want, then try to get reimbursed for it?

Because it's his legal right. Why is it so unconceivable to you that customer's have legal rights?

I bought a radio and a stapler and returned the stapler a day after. It's my right to do so! Why is his right to return the OS any different?


There are system manufacturers that use Linux distros, so why intentionally buy from someone who uses an OS you don't want, then waste a bunch of time and money to get a few bucks back?

That's the whole point. If the legal system worked as it should then he wouldn't have lost any time or money to refund the XP. That's why people should try to exercise their freedoms. After all, they are what differentiates us from slaves.

You keep talking about "a few bucks". Sorry pal, but my I won't sell my freedom for a few bucks.


Whatever legal loopholes make it valid to do have nothing to do with whether it makes an common sense.

Loophole? What loophole? There is a genuine consumer right to return windows and the ***** companies are making us harder to exercise our rights. Why are you on their sides when the laws and reason are on the consumers?

[gn2]

Nevertheless, the time and energy involved in pursuing the case in court will probably not be worth the cost of the license, right?

Completely agree, just not worth the hassle.

I am in the same position as the OP, just bought a new Asus laptop with Vista installed, if I can't get any refund direct from Asus or Microsoft, I will just keep the Vista license in case I ever want to sell it in a few years time.

[tamoneya]

http://gizmodo.com/5027302/how-to-get-refunded-on-prepackaged-vista

[Canis familiaris]

One question:
Can the licesne be tranferred?
Suppose someone has notebook which came preinstalled with Vista. Now she does not want Vista on her notebook because she'll use a Linux distro. However she has a desktop which she would like to have Vista to say play games.
Is it possible for that person to legally remove Vista from her notebook and install Vista on her desktop?

[steeleyuk]

If it was an OEM copy and was already activated, then it is tied down to that motherboard. A retail copy can be transferred once (with Vista) to another machine, as far as I can remember.

Most OEM copies that come with HP/Dell/etc are locked to specific BIOS' anyway so you couldn't install them on another machine even if you wanted.

[gn2]

One question:
Can the licesne be tranferred?
Suppose someone has notebook which came preinstalled with Vista. Now she does not want Vista on her notebook because she'll use a Linux distro. However she has a desktop which she would like to have Vista to say play games.
Is it possible for that person to legally remove Vista from her notebook and install Vista on her desktop?

An OEM pre-installed MS OS licence can only be transferred in the event of hardware failure of the motherboard.

If you have to re-activate, just tell MS that the motherboard broke and you have had to replace it with a new one.
I have done this three times without any problem at all.

[timzak]

Vivaldi Gloria,

While I appreciate where you're coming from, I never stated that customers do not have legal rights. Obviously, the OP will take whatever legal action he/she wants in this matter regardless of what my opinion is.

I guess I'm just different. Your example about buying a radio and stapler, then returning the stapler, isn't quite the same because those two items are not part of the same bundled package. What if the stapler came pre-loaded with 3/8" staples and you only wanted to use 1/2". I suppose you could stand on your head and fight for a refund on the 3/8" staples because you have the freedom and legal right to do so. I suppose that is your right. Personally, I'd either keep the 3/8" in case I could ever use them down the road, or just find a stapler that comes with 1/2" staples in the first place.

I like how aysiu put it:


It's a lot easier to buy a non-Windows computer than to buy a Windows computer and try to return the Windows license. Not only that, but buying a no-OS or Linux-preinstalled computer sends the message to OEMs that there is a demand for non-Windows computers and that non-Windows computers can be profitable for them.

As aysiu puts it, I think your message would have a higher impact if you gave the little guy (no-OS or Linux-preinstalled computer manufacturer) the business, then if you took away a small fraction of the big guy's (HP or whoever) business. The little guy might not be around much longer if they get zero business, but the big guy isn't going anywhere or changing their business model because they have to pay a handful of people a refund for the OS they pre-bundled with the computer they are selling.

[Canis familiaris]

What if the OEM only sold the model you desire with only Windows preinstalled and does not offer a model without an OS.
What would you do then?

[aysiu]

What if the OEM only sold the model you desire with only Windows preinstalled and does not offer a model without an OS.
What would you do then?
If this is addressed at me, you're asking the wrong person. I'm not very picky about models. I'm more or less a pretty basic user when it comes to computers. I want an email client, a web browser, an FTP client, a basic image editor, a music program, a file browser, and a word processor, and that's about it. So as long as there's a basic enough model, I'm cool with it (my current computer is an Asus Eee PC 701).

I think if I were pickier, then I'd have to make a tough choice, but I don't think I'd make such a big deal about fighting over the OEM license. If I were able to compromise and support a Linux preinstalled option, I'd go for it. If having the particular model meant more to me, I'd live with a Windows license.

[timzak]

What if the OEM only sold the model you desire with only Windows preinstalled and does not offer a model without an OS.
What would you do then?

And if this was addressed to me, it doesn't apply to me either. I build my own PCs. In fact, the only pre-built PC I've ever owned was a Packard Bell my parents bought for me in college back in the early 1990's. I could see, though, down the road if I was shopping for a laptop, that this might apply to me. In that case, a) I would either compromise some hardware features to not get the OS, or b) keep the Windows OS and use open source software (this is what I do with my current Windows laptop at home).

edit: or c) install Linux anyway and either forfeit the Windows install (if no reinstall CD), dual-boot, or just keep the CD (if it comes with a reinstall CD) in case I ever want to install Windows back onto the system at a future time.

[drivel]

wow,great job!!

[sparky64]

just found this on the inq.
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/21/vista-refund
was it you.
Direct link to how he did it.
http://equiliberate.org/?q=node/3

[destructaball]

Just to clear up some issues, in the UK it is hugely difficult to get computers without OS's and the ones that you can get are overpriced and not particularily good. Excluding the eePC which you can buy but I did not want an ultra portable laptop I wanted a proper PC. I am not doing this for the money. I am most likely going to donate the money to samaritans (a charity) but I am doing this so in a small way I can try and force big computer manufacturers to give the option of an OS free computer and something like a fifty pound discount if they choose to do that. If this were done it would severly dent microsofts market share and mean that there would be more freedom within the OS market. I am not doing this for personal gain I am doing it because I cannot find a good computer without an operating system and because it is the only way that linux will become the dominant type of operating system. If a lot of people use it so developers are forced to use it.

I am not the type of person to sue because coffee is hot, I hate those type of people. I am sueing because most people don't even know that computers can run without windows and not for personal gain.

In addition I have tried very hard to get my refund off of HP but they flatly refused after wasting about two hours of my time. All I want to do now is to take whoever is responsible t a small claims court. All the links I have recieved have been people who did not have to go that far (which is what I fully expected) so I am only going to court because I have to. All I need to know is who is responsible because they all blame each other.

Does anyone know where I could get free legal information in the UK?

[wrtpeeps]

Just to clear up some issues, in the UK it is hugely difficult to get computers without OS's and the ones that you can get are overpriced and not particularily good. Excluding the eePC which you can buy but I did not want an ultra portable laptop I wanted a proper PC. I am not doing this for the money. I am most likely going to donate the money to samaritans (a charity) but I am doing this so in a small way I can try and force big computer manufacturers to give the option of an OS free computer and something like a fifty pound discount if they choose to do that. If this were done it would severly dent microsofts market share and mean that there would be more freedom within the OS market. I am not doing this for personal gain I am doing it because I cannot find a good computer without an operating system and because it is the only way that linux will become the dominant type of operating system. If a lot of people use it so developers are forced to use it.

I am not the type of person to sue because coffee is hot, I hate those type of people. I am sueing because most people don't even know that computers can run without windows and not for personal gain.

In addition I have tried very hard to get my refund off of HP but they flatly refused after wasting about two hours of my time. All I want to do now is to take whoever is responsible t a small claims court. All the links I have recieved have been people who did not have to go that far (which is what I fully expected) so I am only going to court because I have to. All I need to know is who is responsible because they all blame each other.

Does anyone know where I could get free legal information in the UK?

If you think that YOU, yourself, demanding a refund is going to change how things work, you're in for a shock.

Is it really worth it? HP can fall back on "you knew what you were buying".

You might get some legal info from some of the free software guys, but I'm going to bet none of them are qualified.

In the end, it will probably end up not worth the time or effort.

[steeleyuk]

Citizens Advice Bureau?

[steeleyuk]

If you think that YOU, yourself, demanding a refund is going to change how things work, you're in for a shock.

Is it really worth it? HP can fall back on "you knew what you were buying".

You might get some legal info from some of the free software guys, but I'm going to bet none of them are qualified.

In the end, it will probably end up not worth the time or effort.

But did he know what he was buying? Yes, he knew that Windows came with the PC but was he shown the license before buying the computer? Thats the whole point about agreeing/disagreeing with the license... there could very well be something in there that you don't agree with.

[billynomates]

I don't think you have any reasonable grounds for a lawsuit, not that seems to matter much anymore.

He has reasonable grounds if he is entitled to a refund and they won't give him one.

[wrtpeeps]

He has reasonable grounds if he is entitled to a refund and they won't give him one.

The question is IS he entitled to a refund.

[bobbob94]

There's story here (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/21/vista-refund) about a guy who got a refund from HP for a Vista licence he didn't want. Doesn't sound easy but it does seem possible. I seem to remember a few people getting money back from Dell for unwanted XP licences too a couple of years back...

[zmjjmz]

The question is IS he entitled to a refund.

If you swear by the Vista EULA, I'd say so.

[Brandel Valico]

First yes he IS entitled to a refund if he doesn't use the license. That IS his legal right. It IS provided him in the EULA.

Still other are right. Him by himself doing this or even a handful of people aren't going to change the way computers are sold. But if everyone starts doing it that doesn't want the pre-installed OS it eventually will.

The idea is to see the exact same model setting at Best-Buy on the shelf with a no OS Price and the Price it would be with the pre-installed OS. Let people actually see that sticker difference.

As others have said before if you don't apply your rights you soon won't have them.

[kindofabuzz]

this guy did it: http://equiliberate.org/?q=node/3

[A*p]

The EULA says that you can, in XP it does no idea about Vista, the hard part is getting it.

I read a blog about one guys attempts to get his refund, he photoed the screen to document him not agreeing to the windows install and installing his OS of choice.

It took him over a year and allot of time and effort emailing Toshiba and Microsoft but he got his money back from Toshiba in the end. I don't think he thought it was worth the effort in the end as it took so much effort, but it became a matter of principle I imagine.

What we need, and I have thought about this before, is an easy downloadable correctly worded legal document that just needs a few blanks filled in by the end user that can be sent off to your hardware vendor for the refund. Then even make windows users aware of it so they only pay once for their Microsoft OS not each time they buy a new machine.

[tashmooclam]

You bought it. There is some fine print that Microsoft says it licensed the software not just to ONE person, but also to ONE machine, and that machine is yours! I suggest you sell it on Craigslist, eBay will kick it off. I have tried to sell some unused XP on eBay and the ad was removed by Microsoft-bots.

[phrostbyte]

Just to clear up some issues, in the UK it is hugely difficult to get computers without OS's and the ones that you can get are overpriced and not particularily good. Excluding the eePC which you can buy but I did not want an ultra portable laptop I wanted a proper PC. I am not doing this for the money. I am most likely going to donate the money to samaritans (a charity) but I am doing this so in a small way I can try and force big computer manufacturers to give the option of an OS free computer and something like a fifty pound discount if they choose to do that. If this were done it would severly dent microsofts market share and mean that there would be more freedom within the OS market. I am not doing this for personal gain I am doing it because I cannot find a good computer without an operating system and because it is the only way that linux will become the dominant type of operating system. If a lot of people use it so developers are forced to use it.

I am not the type of person to sue because coffee is hot, I hate those type of people. I am sueing because most people don't even know that computers can run without windows and not for personal gain.

In addition I have tried very hard to get my refund off of HP but they flatly refused after wasting about two hours of my time. All I want to do now is to take whoever is responsible t a small claims court. All the links I have recieved have been people who did not have to go that far (which is what I fully expected) so I am only going to court because I have to. All I need to know is who is responsible because they all blame each other.

Does anyone know where I could get free legal information in the UK?

First of all, drop all these legal threats. Legal threats should be your last resort. Trust me, it's not in your best interest to sue a big company like HP.

Look how the other guy got a refund from HP. Talk with a case manager. Follow what he said. HP is a big *** company with a boatload of money, they'll give you money just to make you shut up. It's in their interest. But avoid legal threats. They are a LAST resort.

Get in contact with a case manager. Ask for one right away.