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JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 09:20 AM
Do you think that switching to Linux just to then use Windows applications via WINE (or similar) just cheating a bit? I find it like vegetarians who eat fake meat made from soya. If you don't agree with eating meat then eat vegetables, not fake meat.

With Linux I try to avoid using Windows apps as much as possible and find alternatives. When I do have a preference for a Windows App then I use a really good emulator I've found called remote desktop to my windows box that sits in the corner without a monitor. I guess that using the odd windows app in linux is fine but people (and I've spoken to a few) who move to linux and then proceed to install all, or as many as possible, of their current Windows apps onto Linux is just defeating the whole point.

I mentioned Linux on a very non-computer literate forum in passing once and got asked a lot of questions about it. I said it was more secure, just easier to use (well I think it is, I know some disagree), it's faster, etc... anyway, the oldest member of the forums, who's in their 60s, erased Vista and installed Ubuntu. I was then bombarded with emails asking where Microsoft Office was. Why it didn't install. Where x apps were. Why x apps wouldn't install or run. Basically, this person didn't even understand the concept that Linux wasn't windows and quickly went back (which I think was probably the right choice for them).

I'm not a force-feeder of Linux. I still use Windows myself when I feel that it suits me better. I use iTunes on Windows simply because I like it. Otherwise I just use Windows as a gaming platform now since it fits that better for me. I just see people who switch to Linux and then use windows apps instead of finding alternatives as not really embracing the whole idea of using Linux.

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 09:27 AM
We can't all be purists.


I see WINE as another advantage of Linux.

mrgnash
July 18th, 2008, 09:28 AM
Not everyone is an absolutist. Different people have different reasons for not eating meat, or not using Microsoft Windows, as the case may be. Eating 'fake meat', as you call it, may not conflict with their personal reasons for avoiding meat products (which may be limited to simply not wanting to engender cruelty to animals, or some similar principle), just as using this or that Windows application may not conflict with someone's reason(s) for not wanting to use Windows.

I would have thought that would be pretty obvious.

For my part, though, I don't even have Wine installed -- nor do I dual boot or use it through a VM. Now that I don't play games anymore, I have no need for it.

Daveski
July 18th, 2008, 09:28 AM
Do you think that switching to Linux just to then use Windows applications via WINE (or similar) just cheating a bit? I find it like vegetarians who eat fake meat made from soya. If you don't agree with eating meat then eat vegetables, not fake meat.

With Linux I try to avoid using Windows apps as much as possible and find alternatives. When I do have a preference for a Windows App then I use a really good emulator I've found called remote desktop to my windows box that sits in the corner without a monitor.

Ah, yes, but this requires a Windows license. If you have one of those, then go ahead and use Windows or a virtual Windows machine. If you do not have - or want a Windows license, then Wine is the way to run Windows apps if you absolutely must.

I don't think it is cheating, but I would rather run a native app than run in WINE - apart from the fact that it fascinates me that I can!

lisati
July 18th, 2008, 09:32 AM
To some people, a computer is a computer: if it was a car, they wouldn't know (or care) about the differences between diesel and regular petrol (gas), or leaded and unleaded, and expect it to work even with the wrong kind of fuel.

The other day, my sister-in-law wanted to use my laptop to type something up. I logged her in to a non-admin account on my machine, and went away, assuming that things would be great. I came back a few minutes later, to find her browsing the Windows partition from Ubuntu with a bewildered expression on her face, looking for the usual Windows programs (I'd foolishly labelled it "XP" and left an icon on the desktop)!!!!!!!!!!

(Perhaps this should be noted on one of the "dumb things you've done" threads......)

madjr
July 18th, 2008, 09:34 AM
+1 to Wine, wine-doors, playonlinux, codeweavers, etc

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 09:41 AM
I switched to Ubuntu because it works better and faster. Although I also admit that philosophical indignation at Microsoft was a factor here. I feel like I'm 1-upping Microsoft every time I use WINE.

grossaffe
July 18th, 2008, 09:42 AM
No, cheating is making sure that people develop stuff for just your system not because its better, but because you can pay them to not release it for the others (i'm looking at you, gameing consoles!).

on that topic, why does it bother you if vegetarians eat what they want to eat? seriously, get a life.

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 09:43 AM
I'm not saying we should be purists. Using the odd app, say IE because you want it for testing, is fine but moving to linux and then spending a majority of your time just running windows apps through wine rather than finding native alternatives is not a good thing.

Barrucadu
July 18th, 2008, 09:45 AM
Yes, I think it's cheating.

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 09:48 AM
If someone tries the alternatives and then goes back, maybe the alternatives don't fulfill their needs so much. (Devil's advocate.:twisted: Always wanted an appropriate context for that emote.)

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 09:49 AM
on that topic, why does it bother you if vegetarians eat what they want to eat? seriously, get a life.

You don't know me, I have a life and just asked a question on here that has sparked a bit of chat. If you want to start flaming then go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

I just find it hypocritical to not eat meat but then to eat soya based things that are engineered to taste like meat. Either way, it was nothing to do with the question as such so move on...

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 09:51 AM
If someone tries the alternatives and then goes back, maybe the alternatives don't fulfill their needs so much. (Devil's advocate.:twisted: Always wanted an appropriate context for that emote.)

um, well actually I agree with this way. If you don't like the alternatives then you have the freedom to go back. That's all fine for me. It's like me with iTunes. I know it's not great and I left it for a long time. Went through numerous different audio packages and went back because I preferred it. At least the individual was open to other apps and tried them.

pedrom169
July 18th, 2008, 09:53 AM
I dont think it is cheating. I think its a way of saying 99% of what windows can do linux can do same or even better. People move to linux becasue its free/ safer and more reliable and if a program can run using WINE that you use why pay money for windows license?

grossaffe
July 18th, 2008, 09:53 AM
You don't know me, I have a life and just asked a question on here that has sparked a bit of chat. If you want to start flaming then go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

I just find it hypocritical to not eat meat but then to eat soya based things that are engineered to taste like meat. Either way, it was nothing to do with the question as such so move on...

you're the one who involved it into the question, not me. How is it hypocritical to eat something that tastes good while still standing behind the principle of not killing something to do so?

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Pretty much, if you use mostly FOSS programs, but there's one thing you need which only works under WINE, more power to ya. That's just Linux giving you more options.



you're the one who involved it into the question, not me. How is it hypocritical to eat something that tastes good while still standing behind the principle of not killing something to do so?

Because soy meat is disgusting...?

grossaffe
July 18th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Because soy meat is disgusting...?

Speaking from experience, a lot of the stuff is disgusting and I usually don't eat that kind of food, but some of it is actually really good.

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 10:06 AM
That's all okay, but why have it pretend to be something it's not? I love tofu, but when I see something that looks like a hot dog, I want a freakin' hot dog! Not tofu dyed pink.

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 10:09 AM
That's all okay, but why have it pretend to be something it's not? I love tofu, but when I see something that looks like a hot dog, I want a freakin' hot dog! Not tofu dyed pink.

Yeah, exactly what I mean.

eragon100
July 18th, 2008, 10:12 AM
I don't see the problem with using wine, it's great for running windows games.

I am playing starcraft right now, it's so famous I wanted to play it just to see what it's like. Great game! :)

grossaffe
July 18th, 2008, 10:19 AM
That's all okay, but why have it pretend to be something it's not? I love tofu, but when I see something that looks like a hot dog, I want a freakin' hot dog! Not tofu dyed pink.

for the most part, I don't eat stuff like that. its not that I refuse to, its just that I find it simpler to just eat other things that don't have meat in them.

on the other hand, why should something not be allowed to take on a certain shape, because meat did it first? its not like hot-dogs are naturally shaped pieces of meat like Wings or other such boned meats. its just gound up parts of animal stuffed into a link. Or burgers, which are just ground up parts of cow waded into a patty. there's a reason they started doing it to that stuff in ther first place.

popch
July 18th, 2008, 10:21 AM
It's cheating, and so what?

I use a computer to get things done. If the application produced for 'my' OS is good enough, I use it. If it isn't, I look for one which is, and get it to run on my computer. If it takes an emulation layer or a virtualization box, so be it.

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 10:32 AM
Yes, now back on topic...


The shape of the tofu hot dog (and the very name of the tofu hot dog) is in imitation of the original.




Just kidding.

To be honest, I don't think that Qemu or WINE are more cheatlike than the Java runtime or the Python interpreter. Similar concepts.

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 10:34 AM
I don't see the problem with using wine, it's great for running windows games.

Not on my computer, lol


I am playing starcraft right now, it's so famous I wanted to play it just to see what it's like. Great game! :)

Yeah, but that's one thing. You don't use windows apps most of the time do you?

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 10:39 AM
To be honest, I don't think that Qemu or WINE are more cheatlike than the Java runtime or the Python interpreter. Similar concepts.

But Java runtime is interpreting Java code for the platform it is on, which is what the Java code was designed to do. And the Python interpreter is interpreting the Python code for whatever platform is it on, which is what the Python code was designed to do. However, WINE is running Windows Apps on Linux Platform which is not what the Windows App was designed to do.

Otherwise, yeah they are conceptually the same.

For clarification, I'm not against using WINE, just against moving to Linux and spending most of your time trying to just run Windows stuff on Linux rather than find something else to do it. The odd game or app is not a problem but to try and make Linux be Windows is a bit odd to me.

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 10:43 AM
Okay, sorry, that was a bad example. What about DOSBox? Essentially it's an identical model of an x86 computer with DOS on it, which is exactly what these older games were designed for. I love DOSBox. It gives me a turbo button!



Thing is, Java and Python bytecode are both designed for what could theoretically be implemented as an actual, hardware CPU instruction set.

eragon100
July 18th, 2008, 11:08 AM
But Java runtime is interpreting Java code for the platform it is on, which is what the Java code was designed to do. And the Python interpreter is interpreting the Python code for whatever platform is it on, which is what the Python code was designed to do. However, WINE is running Windows Apps on Linux Platform which is not what the Windows App was designed to do.

Otherwise, yeah they are conceptually the same.

For clarification, I'm not against using WINE, just against moving to Linux and spending most of your time trying to just run Windows stuff on Linux rather than find something else to do it. The odd game or app is not a problem but to try and make Linux be Windows is a bit odd to me.

I only use wine for games (multiple times a week) and winrar (linux version of rar is console-only), but I don't see the problem with mostly using windows apps on linux. I don't, but I could understand why someone would: no viruses, more stable, free OS, etc etc...

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Okay, sorry, that was a bad example. What about DOSBox? Essentially it's an identical model of an x86 computer with DOS on it, which is exactly what these older games were designed for. I love DOSBox. It gives me a turbo button!



Thing is, Java and Python bytecode are both designed for what could theoretically be implemented as an actual, hardware CPU instruction set.

Yes, but with DOSBox or similar, you only run a few apps occasionally on it. If you actually were to run dos programs all the time then you would install dos and use that. You wouldn't install linux and then spend all your time using dosbox.

Like I said, using an emulator isn't the problem, it's using an emulator almost solely rather than making a proper jump to linux. I use WinApe (on windows) to play CPC464 games but this is only on occasion. I don't use the CPC word processor or spreadsheet or use it to code. I just play games on it sometimes. If I really wanted to play CPC games solely and to use CPC office apps and other things and never really use Windows (in this case) except to boot up WinApe then I may as well just get my CPC out of the cupboard and use that. Occasional use of a piece of emulating software is understandable and fine, but to use it because you are making a pretend jump to linux isn't.

JayeD
July 18th, 2008, 11:17 AM
no viruses, more stable, free OS, etc etc...

That's only for idiots who use windows. I pretty much gave up on Windows last year but prior to that I hadn't had a virus for over 5 years and Linux has crashed more on me in the past year than Windows had in about 5 years. The only time I got a blue screen on Windows that was not due to faulty hardware, during the building of one of my computers, was caused by Oblivion. I'm not supporting Windows since I now use Linux and prefer it, but in honesty it was more stable for me and I didn't get viruses.

As for the cost. I can't argue. The only thing I found was that I bought XP Pro from M$ website for 92 (I think) and it lasted me for 5 years and many hours each day. 1825 days. That's 5p a day. And at around 5+ hours per day it's not really that expensive. However, nothing will get me to pay out the money for that crock called Vista.

MaxIBoy
July 18th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Yes, but with DOSBox or similar, you only run a few apps occasionally on it. If you actually were to run dos programs all the time then you would install dos and use that. You wouldn't install linux and then spend all your time using dosbox.

Like I said, using an emulator isn't the problem, it's using an emulator almost solely rather than making a proper jump to linux. I use WinApe (on windows) to play CPC464 games but this is only on occasion. I don't use the CPC word processor or spreadsheet or use it to code. I just play games on it sometimes. If I really wanted to play CPC games solely and to use CPC office apps and other things and never really use Windows (in this case) except to boot up WinApe then I may as well just get my CPC out of the cupboard and use that. Occasional use of a piece of emulating software is understandable and fine, but to use it because you are making a pretend jump to linux isn't.



I agree with you, but if someone wants the security of Linux with the apps of Windows, they have the freedom to do it. It's a free Internet.

kpkeerthi
July 18th, 2008, 11:25 AM
I hate WINE and I don't use it. I don't care if others use (or cheat by using) it. I favor native linux apps.

RuleMaker
July 18th, 2008, 11:33 AM
I have wine installed just because of "Zuma Deluxe", but I either don't like using win apps on linux.
I know few people that want to switch to linux and plan to use all win apps trough wine, in that case I don't see the point of changing the OS, it means that windows is right OS for them.
On topic:
I wouldn't call it cheating, its lying yourself.

Trail
July 18th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Myself being a programmer, I am fascinated by the huge scale of Wine as a project. The developpers have in essence reverse-engineered and re-developed Windows from scratch. Which also includes replicating existing bugs and whatnot. And it took more than a decade for that.

When I use Wine, I generally feel quite excited about it, from a technological point of view. However, that's distinct from using the applications INSIDE Wine. I generally avoid most Windows applications, and some of them I really hate. Which was largely one of the factors that turned me to Linux in the first place... I used to be installing Windows, then Firefox, Winamp, Winrar, Reader, Nero, Alcohol and whatnot. Then some day I noticed, I don't use IE, I don't use windows media player, I don't use the pathetic built-in cd-recorder. Why am I using Windows?

I use a laptop daily at work, in a KDE environment, and it's absolutely great for me; the applications I use as a developer are awesome. I have set up my environment to be a lot more productive than it ever could be in windows, and i am very happy with it. At home, I also use 'entertainment' applications like firefox, amarok, smplayer, ktorrent etc, and they are infinitely better than any other program I've used.

Why am I using Wine? Two and a half reasons for it; One is games, like WoW, Half-Life, Baldur's Gate etc. Yes I could play WoW on Windows, but through Wine it's actually faster, and I still get to use amarok, firefox and the other applications i've grown to love. I get the best of both worlds. The other reason is a pretty specialized application called AniDB-O-Matic (I could maybe port it to Qt, but I'm lazy and busy at present). And I used to use ApexDC++ in the past, but now I've switched to Linuxdcpp.

So, well, the point of this essay is primarily that I'm bored. But no, I don't find using Wine is cheating. It saves me from dual booting or using a virtual machine, and lets me use my favourite applications in the background. Heck, booting to windows does not even let me access 3TB worth of hard disks because they are in XFS format. I avoid it unless absolutely necessary.

wersdaluv
July 18th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Do you think that switching to Linux just to then use Windows applications via WINE (or similar) just cheating a bit? I find it like vegetarians who eat fake meat made from soya. If you don't agree with eating meat then eat vegetables, not fake meat.

With Linux I try to avoid using Windows apps as much as possible and find alternatives. When I do have a preference for a Windows App then I use a really good emulator I've found called remote desktop to my windows box that sits in the corner without a monitor. I guess that using the odd windows app in linux is fine but people (and I've spoken to a few) who move to linux and then proceed to install all, or as many as possible, of their current Windows apps onto Linux is just defeating the whole point.

I mentioned Linux on a very non-computer literate forum in passing once and got asked a lot of questions about it. I said it was more secure, just easier to use (well I think it is, I know some disagree), it's faster, etc... anyway, the oldest member of the forums, who's in their 60s, erased Vista and installed Ubuntu. I was then bombarded with emails asking where Microsoft Office was. Why it didn't install. Where x apps were. Why x apps wouldn't install or run. Basically, this person didn't even understand the concept that Linux wasn't windows and quickly went back (which I think was probably the right choice for them).

I'm not a force-feeder of Linux. I still use Windows myself when I feel that it suits me better. I use iTunes on Windows simply because I like it. Otherwise I just use Windows as a gaming platform now since it fits that better for me. I just see people who switch to Linux and then use windows apps instead of finding alternatives as not really embracing the whole idea of using Linux.
It doesn't matter at all. Think of it as a feature. Say you can write thrice as many words a minute with your computer compared to pen and paper. Would you call that cheating? You can but it doesn't matter at all.

RebounD11
July 18th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Like it's been said already: no, it's not cheating (some do it because they have to, some because they need to, and most probably because they want to), it's a plus to Linux. The less you use it the better, but it's still a huge advantage for Linux.

spamzilla
July 18th, 2008, 05:29 PM
What are you on about, JayeD?

Everyone is free to use whatever software they want, and just because they use a free OS, it doesn't mean they are not allowed to install software to run non-free programs.

I use whatever software does the best job. IMO all linux web design apps are rubbish compared to dreamweaver, so I run it through WINE. How is that cheating? What am I cheating?

Linux allows users to make a free choice on what software they use, and saying someone is "cheating" because they use a non-free (MS?) program is utter rubbish.

nick09
July 18th, 2008, 05:39 PM
I just use Wine for programs that I might need such as games.

Methuselah
July 18th, 2008, 05:44 PM
Wine isn't cheating.
It's 100% open source code.
In the future it might be our only way of running legacy Win applications.
I think it's a great manifestation of the resourcefulness of the community to devise a way to run windows programs without windows!

clanky
July 18th, 2008, 07:41 PM
Personally, I can't see the point in wine, if I want to run windows applications I would rather run them in windows, but for those who for whatever reason do not want to run windows then wine is a good way to run decent software.

As for cheating, it is only cheating if you make a big noise about refusing to run windows because it is not open source and then use wine as a way to run non-open source software in linux.

Darkade
July 18th, 2008, 07:55 PM
It's not cheating, I don't use any app in wine, but some people just can't find alternatives, to their software, like some games. But those people like the stability of linux, and use linux apps, also many... ok not many but some great apps that work for linux are multi platform, like Open Office, or VLC.
It's not cheating wine is one of the advantages of linux, and again, wine is multiplatform, you can even use it in windows LOL

clanky
July 18th, 2008, 08:17 PM
AutoCAD doesn't run in wine.

Craig73
July 19th, 2008, 02:18 AM
No - it's not cheating.

It allows someone to transition from Windows to Linux (or OSX) and FOSS at their own pace... or to run Windows Apps that they do not have an adequate replacement for on Linux (or OSX).

I don't see it as any different than running FOSS (OpenOffice, FireFox, etc.) on a closed platform (Windows)

(Also - perhaps ReactOS will be the open source solution if Linux isn't the answer)

rune0077
July 19th, 2008, 02:28 AM
Who are we supposed to be cheating here? It's a computer, it's your computer, and you can do anything you want with it. There are no rules you have to follow, hence there can be no cheating. Your free to run anything you want to, closed source or open source or emulators or whatever, run it if you want.

That being said, if you find yourself using WINE all the time, then the smartest choice would probably be to just remove Linux completly and go back to Windows - which, again, is just fine, because it's still your computer and you can do anything you want with it.

RiceMonster
July 19th, 2008, 03:37 AM
Well, I don't consider myself a "purist" or anti-windows, so I don't think it's cheating when I use it. That would only be the case if I were to use Linux to avoid windows 100%. That said, I much prefer to use something that runs natively than to run it in wine. I pretty much just use it for a few games.

Also, this made me think. My friend saw me playing Diablo II on my laptop, and he knows I use Linux, so he said "Hey cool, Diablo II runs on Linux?", so I said, "No, not really". Of course that confused him so I explained wine to him. Basically though, if it doesn't run natively, I say it doesn't run on Linux, but if it happens to run in Wine, that's what I say. Running in wine does not count in my opinion. Just a thought.

Acglaphotis
July 19th, 2008, 03:59 AM
Who are we supposed to be cheating here? It's a computer, it's your computer, and you can do anything you want with it. There are no rules you have to follow, hence there can be no cheating. Your free to run anything you want to, closed source or open source or emulators or whatever, run it if you want.

+1. When did a wider range of choice became a bad thing?

mrgnash
July 19th, 2008, 04:21 AM
Forget Wine; if you really wanted to take this argument to the extreme, you could classify any use of proprietary codecs/formats as 'cheating.' Then I think you could probably classify the vast majority of Ubuntu users as 'cheaters.' :P

L815
July 19th, 2008, 04:49 AM
Well WINE is for software which is made for a Windows platform. It's not associated per say with Microsoft.

So you aren't cheating, you're just using the tool for the right job :P

zachtib
July 19th, 2008, 05:01 AM
As a vegetarian, I have to disagree with your original point. Many vegetarians choose to be so in protest to the killing of animals, which soy meats avoid, or health reasons (my personal reason) and still, soy meants are generally lower in fat and calories, and higher in protein.

Now, if you want to accuse a vegetarian of cheating, go for the ones that still eat fish/seafood :P I even know of a person that calls herself vegetarian but still eats white meat.

popch
July 19th, 2008, 08:48 AM
Who are we supposed to be cheating here? It's a computer, it's your computer, and you can do anything you want with it. There are no rules you have to follow, hence there can be no cheating.

One can even cheat at solitaire.


if you find yourself using WINE all the time, then the smartest choice would probably be to just remove Linux completly and go back to Windows

There are times when I routinely use WINE daily. There are just two or three Windows programs which I have to use along with all the other apps which can run natively in Linux. Since I can not easily replace those programs, I am left with three choices: running them in a separate computer, in a virtual box or in an emulated Windows session.

Running them in WINE gives them access to the same file system in a way that the file paths actually work. It also makes the switching between applications smoother and faster.

stinger30au
July 19th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Do you think that switching to Linux just to then use Windows applications via WINE (or similar) just cheating a bit? .


no definately not. sometimes it the only way we can get certain devices to work.

i own a sharp electronic organizer and there is no software that will let it work in linux natively, so i have no choice but to use wine and run the app using it.

koenn
July 19th, 2008, 11:21 AM
One can even cheat at solitaire.



There are times when I routinely use WINE daily. There are just two or three Windows programs which I have to use along with all the other apps which can run natively in Linux. Since I can not easily replace those programs, I am left with three choices: running them in a separate computer, in a virtual box or in an emulated Windows session.

Running them in WINE gives them access to the same file system in a way that the file paths actually work. It also makes the switching between applications smoother and faster.

.... which sounds exactly the use case wine is intended for.

Judging from his posts, the OP seems to address the case where you would have a linux box but use hardly any of the native linux apps, and in stead use wine to (only) run all the apps you used to be running in windows : MS OFfice, Internet Explorer, MSN Messenger, Windows Media Player, ... whatever.
In that case, I'd say this user is using Linux+Wine as an operating system (as opposed to Linux proper), and would probably be better of using Windows.

mehtdosa11
July 19th, 2008, 12:15 PM
with the company i work for, i can only enter data [from home] on their own secure web-site using ie. [which is a bit rich as the database and server is red hat !!]

unfortunately as long as there are web-sites which you can only view with ie through using wine then i feel wine is a good thing and not really cheating. it after all stops us using windows as an os !

although i do not run any programs as such in wine. although if i could get ebay turbolister to work then i probably would!

Canis familiaris
July 19th, 2008, 12:18 PM
In that case, I'd say this user is using Linux+Wine as an operating system (as opposed to Linux proper), and would probably be better of using Windows.
IMHO
Windows Software Well Configured in WINE + Linux > Windows

koenn
July 19th, 2008, 01:46 PM
IMHO
Windows Software Well Configured in WINE + Linux > Windows

Well, I haven't done any research to back this up , but I have a gut feeling that adding an abstraction layer to system A to emulate or mimic the behaviour of system B, for the sole purpuse of doing what system B can do natively
- adds innecessary complexity
- adds overhead
- is more error prone

JayeD
July 19th, 2008, 02:46 PM
As a vegetarian, I have to disagree with your original point. Many vegetarians choose to be so in protest to the killing of animals, which soy meats avoid, or health reasons (my personal reason) and still, soy meants are generally lower in fat and calories, and higher in protein.

Now, if you want to accuse a vegetarian of cheating, go for the ones that still eat fish/seafood :P I even know of a person that calls herself vegetarian but still eats white meat.

I know of someone even worse than this. My cousin is "vegetarian". She never cooks meat. She has vegetable dishes or quorn. However, she will eat a quarter pounder at McDonalds because she doesn't like anything else on the menu. I find that very strange.

spupy
July 19th, 2008, 02:46 PM
It is easier to install the windows version of scilab in wine than to install the linux version... :-?

JayeD
July 19th, 2008, 02:48 PM
no definately not. sometimes it the only way we can get certain devices to work.

i own a sharp electronic organizer and there is no software that will let it work in linux natively, so i have no choice but to use wine and run the app using it.

I said "Just". Using a few things through wine is perfectly fine to me. I take it that you don't use linux only for your organiser and nothing else. If you use linux plus wine for the organiser then I'm happy. If you use linux just to run your organiser through wine then I'm not so happy.

JayeD
July 19th, 2008, 02:52 PM
I must admit, I'm finding this thread quite amusing. I tried to just pick some silly little subject for a thread, and I'm not that bothered either way really, but it turns out there are some quite strong opinions about it.

I honestly don't give a stuff what people run or want to run. I find running linux to only run windows apps a little odd but if that's what someone wants to do then I don't really care. It is good to see the differing opinions though and it's good that we are able to have differing opinions and make choices of what we do rather than being boxed into running things how corporations want us to.

MaxIBoy
July 19th, 2008, 05:26 PM
I use WINE whenever I have to and it works. If I have to and it doesn't work, I use VMware. If I don't have to, I won't.


Sometimes I use the Windows version of Firefox under WINE, so I can use Shockwave content.

rune0077
July 19th, 2008, 07:22 PM
One can even cheat at solitaire.


But solitaire is a game, it has rules, and then of course you can cheat.

One can not cheat at how one uses one's computer, unless you have actually made some rules for yourself (and why would you want to do that?). So okay, if someone said, okay, I now make it a rule that I will never use a Microsoft product ever again, or, okay, from now on all my software must be open source, then I suppose you could cheat.

But I have made no such rules for myself, hence I can not cheat, no matter what software I use.

popch
July 19th, 2008, 07:50 PM
But I have made no such rules for myself, hence I can not cheat, no matter what software I use.

You're certainly right on that one. Since cheating is breaking rules, it is somewhat hard to do in the absence of rules.

sink
July 19th, 2008, 07:59 PM
I use wine for macromedia flash.

There's no alternative in Linux. Sorry. :(

I really do want one.

lukjad007
July 19th, 2008, 08:10 PM
I don't like Windows. But people who work at making programs sometimes do come up with something worth using. Just because something crashes does not mean it is because it comes from Windows. (I'm looking at YOU Scribus.) Do we abandon Open Office because it has a Windows port? Just because you don't like Windows doesn't mean it doesn't have nifty programs.