Smart ODF for windows, is it possible?

[madjr]

The idea is to get ODF to "virally market itself" in Windows.

by saving your documents to "Smart ODF" (normal odf also available), you would create an executable file that detects if you have an ODF viewer or compatible program in Windows.

If not, it would prompt you to automatically download a viewer, OOo (the parts you need) or the ODF plugin for MS Office (if it works).


i got the idea after reading: Can You Really Live Without MS Office? (http://www.osnews.com/comments/20068)


i think it's the way to go and we could stop saving in .doc format a lot less from within Writer.

you could finally save in odf without worrying, because it would hold users hands and make sure they can open them without your intervention.

in fact OpenOffice on the eeePC saves by default in .doc ...

i think they could had started something like this years ago :confused:

this would really widespread odf and increase its adoption and that of alternatives like openoffice

[zmjjmz]

I'll usually save it in odf, and in the accompanying e-mail (not to mention that I usually print it) say that they should download the ODF plugin for MS Office.
Also, the next SP for MS Office will include ODF support, and it comes in Q1 2009.

[madjr]

I'll usually save it in odf, and in the accompanying e-mail (not to mention that I usually print it) say that they should download the ODF plugin for MS Office.
Also, the next SP for MS Office will include ODF support, and it comes in Q1 2009.

who will provide the odf plugin and or integration? sun or ms?

will it be a closed or open sourced plugin?

i heard somewhere that it was buggy (or intentionally buggy?)

can we trust ms?...

but the main idea is for people to also try out a different office suite if possible.

do you also include in your mails the option to download OOo?

[LaRoza]

No. I do not support "smart" file formats. File formats should stick to doing what their purpose is, and not "automatically download" anything.

[madjr]

No. I do not support "smart" file formats. File formats should stick to doing what their purpose is, and not "automatically download" anything.

if u read thats optional, you can use the old normal odf

i knew someone would mention this


case:

i send an odt to my grandmother with instructions on the email.

still she can't figure out how to follow those instructions.

a smart ODF would basically automate the task of downloading, installing and getting her viewing the document without troubles.

Almost as easy as if i were there myself.


other than that i can't trust ms and i know their odf integration will be bogus crap.

[bruce89]

i send an odt to my grandmother with instructions on the email.

still she can't figure out how to follow those instructions.

a smart ODF would basically automate the task of downloading, installing and getting her viewing the document without troubles.


No point in bloating ODF any more for this. You'd have to have an executable embedded in the file, and this would only work on one platform.

Anyway, I don't think OpenDocument is the saviour of mankind.

[madjr]

No point in bloating ODF any more for this. You'd have to have an executable embedded in the file, and this would only work on one platform.

Anyway, I don't think OpenDocument is the saviour of mankind.

exactly ooxml is :-)

[LaRoza]

i send an odt to my grandmother with instructions on the email.

still she can't figure out how to follow those instructions.

a smart ODF would basically automate the task of downloading, installing and getting her viewing the document without troubles.

Almost as easy as if i were there myself.

Instead of making technology counter stupidity, just send a format she can read.

[bruce89]

exactly ooxml is :-)

LaTeX more like.


Instead of making technology counter stupidity, just send a format she can read.

I've never understood file format militancy. As long as it works, it's fine in my book. Of course, one whose specifications are available are nicer.

[madjr]

Instead of making technology counter stupidity, just send a format she can read.

wow you just sent me back to windows and office with that one :(

anyway even if i saved in .doc or w/e other ms format with OOo, there are compatibility problems that potentially break the format:
http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/07/15/how-does-openoffice-30-beta-handle-microsoft-office-files/


oh and technology was made with that purpose (counter stupidity), not just for nerds to play

[bruce89]

People should realise that most of the time, formatting is overkill. What ever happened to good old plain text?

[madjr]

People should realise that most of the time, formatting is overkill. What ever happened to good old plain text?

probably the same thing that happened to pens and pencils :)

forgot how it was called...

han.. :confused:

handw.. :confused:

handwriti.. :confused:

:KS

[LaRoza]

By "stupidity" I didn't mean to imply she was stupid, just not technologically advanced.

I mean to imply simplicity is better than complicated solutions.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

You know what gets on my nerves? When people send me "finished" documents in the native formats for working on said documents, specific to the tools they used. For example, .ppt files or .doc files; they magically assume I can open those files and don't seem to "get it" even after being told. Let's not encourage the same with ODF, and instead send them in formats that are actually intended to be interchanged easily such as PDF or HTML.

As for "smart odf", I should point out that it is not uncommon for a virus to be an executable posing as a 'normal document'. I would not be surprised, in fact, if most virus scanners detected that sort of trickery and automatically flagged the files as dangerous.

[LaRoza]

You know what gets on my nerves? When people send me "finished" documents in the native formats for working on said documents, specific to the tools they used. For example, Powerpoint files or .doc files. Let's not encourage the same with ODF, and instead send them in formats that are actually intended to be interchanged easily such as PDF or HTML.

OO's export to PDF is the best feature I think.

[zmjjmz]

OO's export to PDF is the best feature I think.

And come September we'll be able to edit it too :D

[dracule]

I send every one of my files in a PDF format. easy to read on screen, easy to print, compatible on loads of machines, and it makes it hard for people to alter my document (yes i know you can change a pdf, but like 99.99% of people do not have the right software)

[smartboyathome]

I send every one of my files in a PDF format. easy to read on screen, easy to print, compatible on loads of machines, and it makes it hard for people to alter my document (yes i know you can change a pdf, but like 99.99% of people do not have the right software)

And the software that does exist is either very expensive, does not preserve all the features of the PDF, or is very complicated to use. :(

[LaRoza]

And the software that does exist is either very expensive, does not preserve all the features of the PDF, or is very complicated to use. :(

OpenOffice exports documents very well.

[Giant Speck]

I think the poll choices are a little immature.

I don't have an opinion about ODF, though.

EDIT: Wait. I do. I use OpenOffice in both Windows and Kubuntu, but I always save in MS Office filetypes. It's just easier for me.

[songshu]

How come that everybody can open .pdf???
Wasn't it the link in every e-mail that had a .pdf attached that said

"click this link to download the reader for free" (http://download.openoffice.org/index.html)

Or something like that. Maybe the full OO package is a little overdone for a download, but a small reader, lets say 5MB, should be a very nice easy download.

"edit"
Better yet, it could lead you to a generic page that has several options, lets say it would give you the options between OpenOffice, abiword and Google docs.

After all, its the ODF Alliance isn't it?
Google would not mind the advertisement i think, Sun Microsystems could sort of integrate it with the Java download etc....Even SAP and IBM who want to use .odf as a standard could shell in some $$ to get the visibility for their products and native supported format.

[madjr]

How come that everybody can open .pdf???
Wasn't it the link in every e-mail that had a .pdf attached that said

"click this link to download the reader for free" (http://download.openoffice.org/index.html)

Or something like that. Maybe the full OO package is a little overdone for a download, but a small reader, lets say 5MB, should be a very nice easy download.

"edit"
Better yet, it could lead you to a generic page that has several options, lets say it would give you the options between OpenOffice, abiword and Google docs.

After all, its the ODF Alliance isn't it?
Google would not mind the advertisement i think, Sun Microsystems could sort of integrate it with the Java download etc....Even SAP and IBM who want to use .odf as a standard could shell in some $$ to get the visibility for their products and native supported format.

agree

it's ridiculous how .PDF got so widespread and became a standard because of that.

In fact these days the Adobe Reader is Huge ! almost as big as the Openoffice suite (in megabites).

if they can do it, ODF certainly has a chance too.

Too bad the OOo guys don't know much about marketing, specially "Viral marketing" like Adobe does.

Adobe could create any "poop format" right now and in a month it would be on everyones computers without them advertising it much.

maybe when OOo 3.0 is out they'll get their marketing act together. Not for OOo but for ODF to kill 2 birds with 1 shot.

[Giant Speck]

lets see if they get their marketing act together somehow with OOo 3.0

I'd like to see them make an attempt at an Office 2007-style interface.

Not that I liked the Office 2007 interface, I just think it would be an interesting interface for OpenOffice to have.

[songshu]

I'd like to see them make an attempt at an Office 2007-style interface.

Not that I liked the Office 2007 interface, I just think it would be an interesting interface for OpenOffice to have.

something like this?
http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/product_ss_wpe.jspa

its the IBM version based on openoffice 1.5 (if i have the version correct)

it might merge back to openoffice someday, but not the 3.0 version.

[MaxIBoy]

Ooh! Ooh! I've got an idea! Take advantage of the open standard to change the file slightly. Instead of downloading OOo, the prompt sends you to an FTP download of a "custom" version of the patch, on a home server! Granny don't know the difference; maybe the file is a little bigger, but she can see the document okay; until she restarts, and she gets trashed by a boot sector virus. Isn't that great?



Seriously, bad idea.

[madjr]

Ooh! Ooh! I've got an idea! Take advantage of the open standard to change the file slightly. Instead of downloading OOo, the prompt sends you to an FTP download of a "custom" version of the patch, on a home server! Granny don't know the difference; maybe the file is a little bigger, but she can see the document okay; until she restarts, and she gets trashed by a boot sector virus. Isn't that great?


Seriously, bad idea.


Seriously, worst argument i read

First rule: Never download random stuff off the net from untrusted sources.


Second rule: Never download random stuff off the net from untrusted sources.

third rule: see first and second rule

[MaxIBoy]

Notice my example was granny? ANYTHING which requires people to mindlessly click "OK," especially with people like granny on a non-sudo-ish platform like Windows, is going to have the potential for such exploitations. Heck, I think .msi files were a mistake.

[madjr]

Notice my example was granny? ANYTHING which requires people to mindlessly click "OK," especially with people like granny on a non-sudo-ish platform like Windows, is going to have the potential for such exploitations. Heck, I think .msi files were a mistake.

see the rule above

i am the one sending the file to her, so am a "trusted source"

[MaxIBoy]

And if you found out she was leaving you out of your will? You wouldn't be tempted?


I'm not trying to cast doubt on your integrity here, I know you probably aren't that twisted. But there are plenty of other people who are twisted. Doesn't have to be to granny. Could be to some other idiot who they want to get even with. Someone who won a divorce lawsuit, for example.

[madjr]

And if you found out she was leaving you out of your will? You wouldn't be tempted?


:-k



I'm not trying to cast doubt on your integrity here, I know you probably aren't that twisted. But there are plenty of other people who are twisted. Doesn't have to be to granny. Could be to some other idiot who they want to get even with. Someone who won a divorce lawsuit, for example.

o...k

:-s

[MaxIBoy]

I'm just saying that there are many people who would take advantage of this kind of thing.



That's why I like the repositories... if someone tries to point you towards a shady "repository," you'll be asked to enable use of "Bob's home server" as a repository, which is an unusual thing to ask for, so most people wouldn't click "OK" and enter the password without investigating. Unless this person just moved over from Windows.

[madjr]

malicious users will exploit anything, so just follow 1 rule and you'll be ok.

"First rule: Never download random stuff off the net from untrusted sources."


i don't think is so hard to follow just 1 rule

[cardinals_fan]

Why force people to download yet another app? Write your docs in HTML! Viewable by everyone!

[songshu]

Why force people to download yet another app? Write your docs in HTML! Viewable by everyone!

because we can ;)
its the way it works and if it wasn't we would all still be using LaTeX, what actually would not be a bad thing tough.

as long as you don't force people to buy yet another app. i don't feel bad about it.

[bruce89]

because we can ;)

It's no better than websites that block non-IE people. (Do they still exist?)

[songshu]

It's no better than websites that block non-IE people. (Do they still exist?)

yes, they still exist. i need it for work so i use ie4linux, not perfect but it works.

the difference is that IE is platform dependent, ODf is not platform dependent and does not require a license.

just show me the official Ms site where i can find a perfectly working license free IE for linux and i would happily download it.

[Tom Mann]

I still use RTF :P

Incidentally, RTF was a Microsoft file format from when they used to do things right...

:KS