India

[ChrisP]

Maybe well off topic for a linux forum but given how important india is likely to be in the future of open source it can maybe sneak in? :)

Basically, I''d love to hear some personal views on whats happening in your part of India atm and what people think the future holds.

FWIW I spent a few months there years ago and came back "concussed" : met the best and the worst of life - usually all in one day!

eldrich_rebello, I'd love to hear what 's going on in your city - nae chance through my local media :(

Chris

[eldrich_rebello]

yo there chris.i'm in bombay india.now they call the place "mumbai"all the same the computing outlook is brighter here than in any other part of the country.even so the penetration of linux is not that high here.most people are still venturing "boldly" into unknown recesses of windows.it'll take some time for them to catch on.i'd love to aid them by giving them the Ubuntu live cd to take for a spin.looking forward to doing the same myself/.but,the people who have switched to linux,ususlly students like myself,are hooked.all trying to spread the word.
no luxuries like broadband here.will take sometime to get here.still waiting though.prices of computers are still falling and the fall is being helped by linux.vendors install linux as the default os.no windows!but that's a newbie distro like mandrake..just to fire the interest in linux..

so you saw the worst of India.i had to face the same reality when I came back from the Arabian Gulf.swanky to ****** n sweaty.overnight.adjusted a bit now. :p

forgive the typo errors. :-D

[ChrisP]

Hi eldrich_rebello, thanks for your reply.

Do you think that many of those computers that have linux installed, as the default OS, continue to run linux or do most of them get quickly reinstalled with a "pirated" windows system (pirated software is very common in Scotland where i live; i'd imagine its even more so in India?)? Can venders sell a computer without any OS if they wanted too or is there a local law that prevents that? Do you think that the proposed "cutdown" windows XP that microsoft is introducing in India and SE Asia will be popular or will people resent being given a poorer product?

I was also wondering what the language support from the different OS's was like? and is there a particular "business language" across India or does each area go its own way?

Sorry for all the questions but im really curious :)

Trying to remember what 45c heat was like while freezing in Scotland ;)

Chris.

[eldrich_rebello]

Hi eldrich_rebello, thanks for your reply.

Do you think that many of those computers that have linux installed, as the default OS, continue to run linux or do most of them get quickly reinstalled with a "pirated" windows system (pirated software is very common in Scotland where i live; i'd imagine its even more so in India?)? Can venders sell a computer without any OS if they wanted too or is there a local law that prevents that? Do you think that the proposed "cutdown" windows XP that microsoft is introducing in India and SE Asia will be popular or will people resent being given a poorer product?

I was also wondering what the language support from the different OS's was like? and is there a particular "business language" across India or does each area go its own way?

Sorry for all the questions but im really curious :)

Trying to remember what 45c heat was like while freezing in Scotland ;)

Chris.

no.vendors are free to sell a pc as they like.as far as i know.

english is the business language here.

windows xp?most computers running it have pirated versions.

most computers running linux continue to do so.the people using them ususlly have insufficient knowledge to do something about that.

language support-linited to widows mostly,unsure about Indian lang support in Linux.

oh yes.the pirated software market in Bombay alone is worth millions.and the most popular products are microsoft software.opensource is not a big player there.mostlinux enthusiasts are students and young adults.it'll take some time before the old to moderately old adopt a pc,let alone Linux. :sad:

[rohandhruva]

Hi,

Even i am from india. I am from mumbai, just like elderich_rebello. Well piracy is __rampant__ out here. You want any software, please phone your "computer-walla" i.e your hardware vendor. If he doesnt have the CD, buy it for 50Rs at a stall, complete with a 10-paise color Xerox cover, thank you very much.

Also, most people out here are unwilling to try out linux - the attitude is - windows has it all? why do i need to switch to linux? :twisted:

Please tell me yor thoughts.
Rohan.

[eldrich_rebello]

actually rohan,you're right there.no one has the willingness to shift to linux.when windows is available ripped for a steal.someone/somecompany should try to introduce people to the world of fre software

[az]

Who uses computers in India? Are they a thing for only the priveledged few? Are they available in schools? At what levels?

What kind of hardware is available? How much does internet access cost and is that accessible for many people?

[rohandhruva]

Who uses computers in India? Are they a thing for only the priveledged few? Are they available in schools? At what levels?

What kind of hardware is available? How much does internet access cost and is that accessible for many people?
Hi,

Majority of people own Personal Computers out here, but its nowhere compared to the majority in developed countries like US / Canada. They are available in most schools, but _only_ for learning purposes - i mean you are not allowed to connect to the internet, you are not allowed to download, - just stick your nose in the textbook and read and type and press 'F5'....

Hardware here is __very__ expensive - so mostly people with newest coolest gadgets get them them from people abroad. Most people use dial up internet connection. Dial up speeds are msierable - hardly 10-12 kbps. Cable internet is gaining up, but thats narrow band - not broad band :( if you want broad band you pay a huge fee per month, not affordable by the home user. For example, my monthly limit is just 100MB above that i pay Rs.2/MB :(:( T1 lines are only in few offices, where constant downloads are required (like offices of computer magazines which distribute distros and stuff).

Hope that answers your questions...

Rohan.

[eldrich_rebello]

ya.that pretty much sums it up.but dial up speeds are not all that bad in a huge city like bombay.30-50 kbps more like it.depends on the condition of your phone line though.hardware here is EXPENSIVE.i'm comparing it to the Arabian Gulf.bahrain.exactly/.cable internet is catching on though at a slooooooow pace.hoping for the best though

[az]

That is very interesting.

Do people commonly use copmuters to browse the internet or is it mostly an office or other use? Do they take advantage of browser features such as disabling graphics to accelerate web browsing?
At such slow speeds, would text browsers such as w3m and lynx be more suited?

I suppose that as hardware is very expensive, you would not want to change something if it is already working. Installing linux besides another operating system may just end up making you need more disk space and so forth.

Also interesting, the Conexant software modems (very cheap since they barely contain any technology) have linux drivers which are proprietary. They come in two versions. The free download which is limited to v32 (14.4kps). You must purchase a token to unlock the full 56kps that the modem is designed to support.
It seems that the free version which is pretty useless here would be practical over there.

[rohandhruva]

Hi,


That is very interesting.

Do people commonly use copmuters to browse the internet or is it mostly an office or other use? Do they take advantage of browser features such as disabling graphics to accelerate web browsing?
At such slow speeds, would text browsers such as w3m and lynx be more suited?


People do use internet commonly, bout only thro' dial up conenctions. No people here use only IE and hence donot take advantage of the advanced features. A few do know about FireFox tho. :) ;) No text browsers, AFAIK are not used at all - most people here being windows addicts they use IE only.


I suppose that as hardware is very expensive, you would not want to change something if it is already working. Installing linux besides another operating system may just end up making you need more disk space and so forth.


You are right to the hilt!! If it aint broke, dont fix it or upgrade. Most people here, including me donot want to upgrade to a DVD drive, because CD ROM works!! Correct me if I am wrong. That was just an example...
Thats exactly why linux is not catching up; the attitude is : Hey, why waste hard disk space? If i got Windows i dont want Linux - as it is its _really_ difficult to configure and find drivers!! :(:(


Also interesting, the Conexant software modems (very cheap since they barely contain any technology) have linux drivers which are proprietary. They come in two versions. The free download which is limited to v32 (14.4kps). You must purchase a token to unlock the full 56kps that the modem is designed to support.
It seems that the free version which is pretty useless here would be practical over there.

What are software modems? You mean internal modems? Most motherboards come with internal modems, and the drivers provided are used for windows. As far as linux is concenred, most people dont care to configure mdoems under Linux thinking that Hey, i wanna get my mail i will boot into Windows - no sweat. I want to surf, Windows will do that for me. I have dual booted into Linux just to get the feel of it. I 'trust' Windows for my mail and internet.!

Again, correect me if i am wrong...

Rohan.

[eldrich_rebello]

no.software modems use certain bits of software to rum from windows.they compromise on hardware to lower the price.dunno if that's common or not here.must be in the cheaper PC's .i custom built mine so I doubt i have one!

[ChrisP]

Those low connection speeds must make it nearly impossible for people to keep up with security patches and the like, even if they had the knowledge and desire to do them . I've done an Ubuntu, Suse and a couple of windows 2k installations this month and every one involved about 80 mb of patches - even at 56k that would be a pain in the neck, but at 14k .... ouch! :( Given the amount of adware and viruses I see on the most up to date windows systems here, that must be a big problem in India ?

I had wondered what would happen when microsoft stopped security support for pirated windows and if linux would benefit , but i guess that few people can keep their systems safe anyway at those kinds of speeds.

Are the high prices and low speeds due only to the state of the infrastructure or is there some goverment regulation/ taxing going on there too?

If you guys could design a "perfect" OS for India what would it look like and feature? and what would be the best way to distribute it and the security patches/upgrades ; through CD's distributed by the local vendor or whatever rather than the internet?

[rohandhruva]

Hello,


Those low connection speeds must make it nearly impossible for people to keep up with security patches and the like, even if they had the knowledge and desire to do them . I've done an Ubuntu, Suse and a couple of windows 2k installations this month and every one involved about 80 mb of patches - even at 56k that would be a pain in the neck, but at 14k .... ouch! :( Given the amount of adware and viruses I see on the most up to date windows systems here, that must be a big problem in India ?

BINGO! Right... No one here keeps up with the lates security patches and all. Dont consider linxu for a time - wven in windows, the "Windows Update" is the most under used feature... :) Seriously, people say Why should i update? whose gonna hack into my computer? What will they find even if they hack into it? In the worst case, i will format, and take my friends XP cd and reinstall....


I had wondered what would happen when microsoft stopped security support for pirated windows and if linux would benefit , but i guess that few people can keep their systems safe anyway at those kinds of speeds.

Right again. No one, as i already said, cares to update windows, and hardly anyone out here has a legitimate, licenced copy of Windows.


Are the high prices and low speeds due only to the state of the infrastructure or is there some goverment regulation/ taxing going on there too?

Its the lack of infrastructure, not government interference...


If you guys could design a "perfect" OS for India what would it look like and feature? and what would be the best way to distribute it and the security patches/upgrades ; through CD's distributed by the local vendor or whatever rather than the internet?

Well, the perfect OS would be Linux(because its 'freeware') + Windows(for its "Ease of Use"+"Popularity"+"LARGE software base"). By telling that linux is 'freeware' i mean, most people here feel that linux is free as in freeware. It would be suitable in India, as it would help curb the rampant piracy. Also, i say windows has a large software base because, hardly any people know that a free, superior alternative of propritary software always exists is the world of open source. So, the first step would be to spread Linux and OSS awareness to the masses, then have them perform a smooth transition from Windows -> Linux....

Rohan.

PS: Sorry for the long posts....

[rohandhruva]

no.software modems use certain bits of software to rum from windows.they compromise on hardware to lower the price.dunno if that's common or not here.must be in the cheaper PC's .i custom built mine so I doubt i have one!
Hi,

Oh, you mean the 'winmodems'? Yes most people out here use winmodems...

Rohan

[eldrich_rebello]

not so sure about mose people using winmodems.i don't.confirmed that.come on.the phone lines are not all that bad.40 Kbps is not bad.By our standards.
everything is taxed here and the money goes straight to the belly of one man.maybe a a couple of them.
linux can make a foray into the market here if some big corporate promotes it.people who assemble pc's should install linux instead of windows by default.
there is an indian version of linux i believe.bhavya os i think.wonder what that's all about.maybe pc vendors can give out free cd's of linux distros in addition to games and microsoft software.may be software pirates should be introduces to linux.they;ll take care of the rest.... :D :D :D

[mishranurag]

As some people commented earlier, I know people use pirated software excessively. I remember my sister having win XP pro, which would not update to SP2, because it was pirated. Also due to low knowledge of computers and increased web annoyances, added by spams, spywares, viruses she stopped using internet. Same with my elder sister.

This time when I go to India, I will carry lots of UBUNTU and repository CDs and configure at least a few computers. One issue however is that people use Yahoo Phone and Gmail Chat/phone a lot, and these services are not available on linux yet, which is very sad. I wish to at least see GMail phone service on linux before I go to India, this time.

Hope it gets better.
Anurag

[nickle]

I am not sure Ubuntu is the best distro for your purposes becasue a proper install really requires a broadband connection. It would be better to take one of the distros that comes more or less complete. I also imagine some live cd would also be great for quick demo purposes....

[woedend]

I do not mean this to come off as 'racist', but from my impression of indian americans, they seem much much more intelligent than the average american I meet(in general, i've only met personally probably less than 20). I hope linux takes off there, i think it would induce a huge bump in development.

[hellmet]

well this thread being very old(expect for the last couple of posts)
India and Computers have changed a hell lot.
Computers here are quite cheap now..
And finally we have some decent broadband...
but decency is expensive a bit.
If u r working its affordable..
If u are not..then its a bit difficult
to afford it.
Here in Hyderabad..we have a complex called CTC
where computers and components sell like pencils and rubbers.
Things are improving..
Computers are slowly becoming a necessity

[hellmet]

I do not mean this to come off as 'racist', but from my impression of indian americans, they seem much much more intelligent than the average american I meet(in general, i've only met personally probably less than 20). I hope linux takes off there, i think it would induce a huge bump in development.
yes to continue this post..
Indians are really intelligent..
it has been proven in a few studies..
and americans are said to
contain the lasrgest numbers of Dumbos..


No flaming here..I read that somewhere in the
meida...
So don't throw mud at me

[woedend]

of developed countries, I would agree. But not if you take into account 3rd world nations. No offense taken, theres a difference between saying there are a lot of dumb americans(Which I can agree with) and saying "americans are dumb"

[emerge_myself]

yes to continue this post..
Indians are really intelligent..
it has been proven in a few studies..
and americans are said to
contain the lasrgest numbers of Dumbos..


No flaming here..I read that somewhere in the
meida...
So don't throw mud at me

A bit offtopic but....
The problem with the general observation of indians being more intelligent is basically of the sample space. The Indian population in America consists of those people who were well above average as far as intelligence went. This is the reason they could get the American companies to recruit them. Its natural that these people would be more intelligent than the average American.
OTOH if you compare an average Indian from India and an average American you would find little difference between the two. In fact the american may end up looking smarter due to better education in America.
As far as reading stuff like this in media is concerned, the Indian media overhypes these stuff. They know what sells and they will use the skewed sample space to make statements like these and sell their news.

[hellmet]

yes Indian media is some real BS..
it mite just do wat u said tooo

[hellmet]

of developed countries, I would agree. But not if you take into account 3rd world nations. No offense taken, theres a difference between saying there are a lot of dumb americans(Which I can agree with) and saying "americans are dumb"
yes wat I said was exactly that

"america is said to contain the largest number of dumbos.."

i din't say americans are dumb..
if that were true, america wud not
have been where it is today!!