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View Full Version : Let's push for a better hardware support!



VitaLiNux
July 4th, 2008, 06:24 PM
Hello, guys!
I opened this thread to ask you to make a commitment to demanding a better hardware support from the hardware industry. Well, my idea is the following:

We could poll x hardware here to see how many people use it, then we could agree to send x hardware company a signed petition sheet to give x hardware specifications to developers, thus our developers could make drivers for such hardware. In fact, that's the most viable way to push hardware companies to either hire *nix developers to make open drivers for the *nix community in general or making available their hardware specifications to our developers.

In the long run, everybody will be happy! Just imagine this scenario:


FOSS Community: Linux and other Open Source OSes are having a high leap through their community. Every day we welcome new users. New users means more hardware sales.


x Hardware Company: More hardware sales? But, what if I'm building such a hardware that has no driver support through, say, Linux.Oh, wait a minute... Wow! Nobody knows how much money I could make through that market base... Let's see, I got no time and no money to hire more people to make *NIX drivers for our hardware... BUT what if your developers are given our hardware specifications, will they be able to make good drivers for it?


FOSS Community: We believe it's correct. Our large community could make it! And remember, that's as good for you as for us. Why? Because our user base will wholeheartedly BUY YOUR HARDWARE over anybody else's. THEY OVERWHELMINGLY BUY WHAT JUST WORKS FOR THEM!


x Hardware Company: Good! Then let's do it! (Gee, what a market niche I will open now! :D )

And that's it! As it is intended with FOSS's philosophy, everybody will make their dream come true! Not only with high quality software, but a great support for their hardware, as it is meant to be! And not only will we get a better hardware compatibility, we'll also build a very promising future for the Free and Open Source Community.

I accept any critics, suggestions, ideas, etc, as to give shape to this idea.

Let the show begin!

madjr
July 4th, 2008, 10:05 PM
+1

hola vita

the linux community has been trying to do stuff like this on and off for several years.

-we did push for intel and it worked.

-we pushed for AMD-ati and it worked

-we pushed for Via and they recently released their specs

-Linux developers are now pushing for Nvidia to free-up, else they'll boycott. Nvidia has some mixed feelings right now.

Once Ati gets better drivers and sales start going up (gets used by hardware vendors again) Nvidia will re-think it.


i think the best we could do to place pressure is to Blacklist (aka "stay-way") some closed-windows-only hardware manufacturers.

i think i would start with "Broadcom" wifi chips

other stuff we could blacklist are some peripherals (printers mostly, so they can do what hp did)...

VitaLiNux
July 5th, 2008, 01:13 AM
i think the best we could do to place pressure is to Blacklist (aka "stay-way") some closed-windows-only hardware manufacturers.

i think i would start with "Broadcom" wifi chips

other stuff we could blacklist are some peripherals (printers mostly, so they can do what hp did)...
Well, that'd be too radical. What we need them to do is to change their minds (comes around the Once Ati gets better drivers and sales start going up (gets used by hardware vendors again) Nvidia will re-think it thing. Again, what we should focus on is to help our developers in this quest to get better hardware support. I know of many people who has bought some kind of exotic hardware that works ol with Windows(well, really, if there are DRIVERS for it).

What we need to do is to ask for support TOGETHER (not only Devs but everyone!).

Should we gather enough signatures to make our voices heard, they'll realize we are a very organized community and then they'll be willing to stand by us.

init1
July 5th, 2008, 01:57 AM
i think i would start with "Broadcom" wifi chips

Count me in. Wasn't until Hardy that my Broadcom worked without NDISWrapper.

madjr
July 5th, 2008, 05:05 AM
Count me in. Wasn't until Hardy that my Broadcom worked without NDISWrapper.

most of the broadcom still need NDISWrapper, others plain don't work.

aysiu
July 5th, 2008, 07:12 AM
I think it's quite simpler than this. Pay money for hardware that works with Linux. Don't pay money for hardware that doesn't work with Linux.

If all or even most Linux users did this, it would be very easy for hardware manufacturers to see "Hey, the companies that support Linux make more money than the ones that don't. Maybe we should support Linux."

madjr
July 5th, 2008, 08:24 AM
I think it's quite simpler than this. Pay money for hardware that works with Linux. Don't pay money for hardware that doesn't work with Linux.

If all or even most Linux users did this, it would be very easy for hardware manufacturers to see "Hey, the companies that support Linux make more money than the ones that don't. Maybe we should support Linux."

people don't really know what works or not (at least less experienced users)

it's mostly trial and error :confused:

also, in 6 months something that never worked, suddenly starts working ...

the kernel devs really need to make a blacklist available of hardware they wont work on.

seriously we don't know what Not to buy...

aysiu
July 5th, 2008, 08:32 AM
people don't really know what works or not (at least less experienced users)

it's mostly trial and error :confused:

also, in 6 months something that never worked, suddenly starts working ...

the kernel devs really need to make a blacklist available of hardware they wont work on.

seriously we don't know what Not to buy...
Or better yet, a whitelist of what is recommended to buy. I tried to get people to create that whitelist (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=834616), but few have taken me up on that offer.

eragon100
July 5th, 2008, 08:32 AM
+1

-Linux developers are now pushing for Nvidia to free-up, else they'll boycott. Nvidia has some mixed feelings right now.



Boycott??????? I have a GeForce 7, won't I be able to have 3d on it anymore because some crazy kernel dev. makes it impossible to use the propietary driver? I want to be able to play my games!

In fact, the moment they make this crazy decision, I would simply reinstall windows xp and remove linux from my harddrive. I am *not* going to buy an ATI card just to be able to do things with an open-source driver which I can already perfectly do with a closed-source driver right now! :mad:

Powerman2442
July 5th, 2008, 08:36 AM
i think i would start with "Broadcom" wifi chips

YES! I like the way you think. <-- Has Broadcom 4311 chip. And has had nothing but problems on every Linux distro out there!

ad_267
July 5th, 2008, 09:23 AM
I don't think boycotting development is a good idea as that could leave many people with unsupported hardware. But a centralized list of hardware vendors to purchase from who supply specifications or open drivers would be useful.

eragon100
July 5th, 2008, 09:31 AM
Oh, boycotting nvidia driver development wouldn't leave me with unsupported hardware :)

It would just leave me with windows :wink:

ad_267
July 5th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Well the nvidia drivers that most people use are made by nvidia anyways aren't they? So they would still be developed assuming nvidia continued to support Linux, only the open source nv drivers wouldn't continue to be developed. Is that right?

eragon100
July 5th, 2008, 10:46 AM
No, the nv driver also comes from nvidia as far as I know.

And since it's 2d only :arrow: not interesting anyway.

iption
July 5th, 2008, 02:08 PM
i think i would start with "Broadcom" wifi chips

I don't think you will see Broadcom divers soon without cutters or wrappers.
As far as i know Broadcom has some contract with US military and can't release their card specifications for security reasons. So, until they break the contract (which won't happen because military probably pays more than linux users ever will for their cards) or the contract expires, you won't see the real drivers.

madjr
July 5th, 2008, 06:44 PM
I don't think you will see Broadcom divers soon without cutters or wrappers.
As far as i know Broadcom has some contract with US military and can't release their card specifications for security reasons. So, until they break the contract (which won't happen because military probably pays more than linux users ever will for their cards) or the contract expires, you won't see the real drivers.

i don't really care too much if they're open or closed as long as they are ported, work and are supported.

VitaLiNux
July 8th, 2008, 11:49 PM
I don't think boycotting development is a good idea as that could leave many people with unsupported hardware. But a centralized list of hardware vendors to purchase from who supply specifications or open drivers would be useful.

Exactly. There's no need to hit those bounds. We should encourage the Hardware industry to change attitude positively, we don't need them to think that we are just a bunch of crybabies which are willing to get our way or else...