Opinions on Thinkpad

[chimerical_brio]

I'm in the market to buy a new laptop, and I've all but decided to get a Thinkpad T61. But I have some questions:

1. How soon will Lenovo be releasing new Thinkpads? Would it be a bad idea to buy now?

2. How well-supported is the Intel 3945ABG card? I'd rather have the 4965AGN, but it would cost $100 more to get it. Is 3945ABG sufficient? Alternatively, does anyone have any recommendations for a good PRISM2 card?

3. How well-supported is the Intel GMA X3100 GM965? I don't really need much as far as graphics goes; at most, Compiz/Beryl, MAYBE some games under Linux, but if so, nothing very intense/cutting edge. Will the X3100 do the trick?

Anyone have personal experience with the T61? Good laptop? Thanks.

[archer6]

I've all but decided to get a Thinkpad T61. But I have some questions:

1. How soon will Lenovo be releasing new Thinkpads?

2. How well-supported is the Intel 3945ABG card?

3. How well-supported is the Intel GMA X3100 GM965?
I have a lot of ThinkPad experience as I've been using them for a decade. I also deploy hundreds of them in the company I founded.
I would highly endorse a T61. The answers to your questions are:

1) New ThinkPads are on the way and will be released in about a month, if they stay on track. This is the first time in about 8 years that they have been completely redesigned, by Lenovo. At the current 30% off pricing for the existing models, you would be getting a great computer at a great price. This is the lowest I have ever seen ThinkPads priced at.

2) All the Intel wireless cards are well supported, much more so than the IBM/Lenovo cards. As far as a PRISM2 card, I have no suggestions.

3) GMA X3100 and GM965 are all well supported. X3100 would be my choice for your needs.

While I personally use a T60 and T60p workstation class ThinkPad, I can attest that the T61 series is also very good, as I have many deployed in the company. The biggest difference is the widescreen display on the T61. Whereas, my T60's have the more conventional 4x3 aspect ratio, which used to be the "standard" display format. It's one that I prefer as the type of design and engineering work I do just fits better with less scrolling on the taller display. A personal preference really.

If I was deciding which way to go and money is a factor (isn't it always?), I would not hesitate to buy now. I would not wait as they are clearing the current machines out, and if one hesitates the configuration you want could be gone. Also you are buying a known model.

The new ones are an unknown. Not that I think they may be a problem or sub standard, but I do know that they will command full price for some time. So if one can save $1,000 or more, which is the case during this sale period, I would grab one up immediately. Then going forward after the new models have been out for 6 months to a year and you find one very attractive, you could wait until the second generation (that's what I do) and get a fully debugged, proven model. At that point you could keep your T61 as a backup or sell it for what is sure to be a very good price. ThinkPads of all models hold their value far better than any other laptop.

Hope this helps you.

Cheers....:D

[archer6]

I'm in the market to buy a new laptop, and I've all but decided to get a Thinkpad T61.

Just in case you haven't seen this, there is a ThinkPad R61 with Suse Linux for sale on the Lenovo site for only $693.00.

The differences between a T & R series are relatively minor. I have both and in the last two years the R's have been brought up to T specs, with the exception of the case material, and a few very minor differences. As far as the case is concerned I actually prefer the R case material as it's easier to keep clean, and has a very nice texture to it. Strength is nearly the same as well. Just a thought. Here's a link for you: --> Suse Linux R51 (http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:LoadRuntimeTree?sb=: 00000025:00001430:&smid=5D3D13908B314242BD226E9BF4C1A1DB)

Cheers....:D

[jbrown96]

I'm in the market to buy a new laptop, and I've all but decided to get a Thinkpad T61. But I have some questions:

1. How soon will Lenovo be releasing new Thinkpads? Would it be a bad idea to buy now?

2. How well-supported is the Intel 3945ABG card? I'd rather have the 4965AGN, but it would cost $100 more to get it. Is 3945ABG sufficient? Alternatively, does anyone have any recommendations for a good PRISM2 card?

3. How well-supported is the Intel GMA X3100 GM965? I don't really need much as far as graphics goes; at most, Compiz/Beryl, MAYBE some games under Linux, but if so, nothing very intense/cutting edge. Will the X3100 do the trick?

Anyone have personal experience with the T61? Good laptop? Thanks.

I have a T61p and love it. They are very well-made, and I don't have any* complaints. The 3945ABG is a very good card. The drivers were recently switched; the new one iwl3945 is a little buggy (the LED for it doesn't work without upgrading to an "unsupported update" in the repository. I don't see any reason to get the 802.11n card; there is no situation where you would see a speed benefit; how often is your data connection above 54Mbs (or whatever is realistic with 802.11g)? Not sure about how much better the range is.

I can't speak for the Intel graphics; I have the Nvidia Quadro 570 card, which is fine but not really necessary for what I do.

Physically, the computer is very nice. I don't think it's heavy. It very sturdy; there's no bending or give on it. I don't like all the glitz and glamor of most laptops, so I really like the plain black paint and lack of obnoxious lights/media keys. The keyboard is wonderful and touchpad is great.

The computer has great support for any Linux distro out-of-the-box, so you shouldn't have any trouble with it.

*There is one thing that bothered me when I first got it. The screen sucks; it's very dim and doesn't have great color. I don't notice it anymore, but it is disappointing, especially since I ponied up for the pricier graphics. It shouldn't be a deal-breaker, unless you work in bright sunlight. There is a setting in BIOS to make the screen brighter. I didn't use it for a long time because there is a very nasty warning about decreased battery life, but the changed is minimal and fixes most of the problem.

[cardinals_fan]

Thinkpads are the best. Period.

[archer6]

Thinkpads are the best. Period.
This is so true.

There isn't a single thing that I have a complaint with. There is a certain satisfaction that comes with a ThinkPad, knowing that it's got such a proven track record of solid performance, and ultra reliability. This is one laptop that does not feel fragile, nor does it display any weaknesses. Perfect, no.... but very close, that's for sure.

I am very eager to see the "newly redesigned ThinkPads" from Lenovo. So far the early pictures are encouraging. If they have kept the quality at the usual high ThinkPad standard I will breathe a sigh of relief. If the new line includes a suitable workstation class machine the equal of the T60p, I will be elated.

[Lord Xeb]

Thinkpads are the best. Period.

This is very true. I have one of the last survivers before Lenovo came in (it is a true IBM Thinkpad T43). I love it. It is fast for my needs, runs a VM just fine, tough as hell and I had little to no problem with Ubuntu. Everything pretty much worked first time. I have never used a T6x series but I do want one. I will eventually be getting one from my mom's company one a lease is gone :D. Core 2 Duo baby <_<

[chimerical_brio]

Alright, so next question...I'm pretty much very unknowledgeable when it comes to what I need, hardware-wise. Typically, the most that I need to do is use Firefox, Pidgin, Rhythmbox/Amarok, and OpenOffice at the same time, sometimes with GIMP. I've been using a 2.4ghz P4, and things can be really sluggish at times. Since I'm shelling out the cash for a new laptop, I'd rather that not happen.

1. What speed processor do I need? Is 2.0ghz enough, or should I spring for 2.5?

2. Is a 5400rpm HD fast enough? Do I need 7200?

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

[LaRoza]

1. What speed processor do I need? Is 2.0ghz enough, or should I spring for 2.5?



It'll be a Core 2 Duo, don't pay attention to speed. They are all good.

[dominiquec]

Is a 5400rpm HD fast enough? Do I need 7200?

Go for a higher-speed disk, if you can afford it. That's usually the slowest part of computers these days. Weakest link and all that....

[zmjjmz]

Something of an OT question, but don't faster HDD's put down battery performance?

Oh, by the way, Thinkpads are awesome.

[archer6]

1. What speed processor do I need? Is 2.0ghz enough, or should I spring for 2.5?

2. Is a 5400rpm HD fast enough? Do I need 7200?

1) 2.0 GHz will provide you with very fast performance, you will be very happy with that. Going to 2.5 is a complete waste of money.

2) 5400rpm is also very fast. While 7200 is indeed faster, but is it needed? The down side to 7200 rpm drives, they draw more battery power, they run hotter, and are louder than a cool quiet 5400rpm drive.

Here's my experience with Ubuntu as a new user of just 6 weeks.
When I first decided to try Ubuntu I got a copy of version 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon on CD from a friend. I had an old ThinkPad R51e, with very little resources, just check out the specs:

1.5GHz Celeron / 512 Ram / 40GB 4800 rpm hard drive.

Now that is one slow computer relatively as compared to what you are talking about. Also if you've never had a measly 4800rpm hd you have no idea how much slower it is than a 5400 rpm. Anyway on this computer Ubuntu booted to the desktop in just 40 seconds. Shuts down in about 20 seconds. Runs Firefox as fast as my T60 (specs below in my signature) and does all normal office activities, spreadsheets, you name it and it does it very nicely. And it's running on a Celeron...I was SHOCKED....!

Especially since it came with XP and I was used to that running modestly. So when comparing Ubuntu Gusty vs XP on this machine, Ubuntu ran more than twice as fast if not three times. I was so impressed that I became a Ubuntu believer immediately and then setup my T60 with a second hard drive so I could have the best of both, Ubuntu and XP Pro each on their own hard drive, as I still need XP for certain engineering, 3D design and other work I do. However that said, as I learn Ubuntu and find equivalent applications I may very well at some point be able to switch to Ubuntu for nearly everything. So now you have heard how Ubuntu runs on a ThinkPad with modest resources as compared to the more mainstream configurations.

The hard drives in my T60 (below) are 5400rpm and Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04 is very fast! You will not be disappointed with a setup like my T60.

Cheers!

[zmjjmz]

I'd actually have to wonder about the SLED speed on the new Thinkpads...

[archer6]

Something of an OT question, but don't faster HDD's put down battery performance?

My T60p Workstation class ThinkPad has a 7200rpm hard drive. As do two other ThinkPads I have, and here is what my experience has been with those drives.

1) Yes they do impact battery life but not to the extent that it's deal breaker for me. However it might be for some.

2) I cannot hear the 5400rpm drive in my T60, however the 7200rpm drive in my T60p sounds like a jet engine, not to say it's objectionable, just noticeable. I personally do not care as it's not that loud, but some people do not like it. Due to the nature of the work I do, (modeling & rendering, 3D design & other disc intensive engineering work) the 7200 rpm is a must on that ThinkPad. For regular mainstream work I find 5400 the sweet spot.

3) Heat is noticeable with a 7200rpm drive and the fan runs more often, however again, I'm really taxing it with some of the work I do.

So there are some thoughts based on my experience over several years, lots of Thinkpads and a variety of work.

Cheers.....:)

[archer6]

I'd actually have to wonder about the SLED speed on the new Thinkpads...

Good point. In my case I plan to wipe the drive and install Ubuntu 8.04 immediately upon unpacking the computer, so SUSE will only be a memory. Since I'm new to Linux and Ubuntu, and it's working really well for me, I'm going to concentrate on learning Ubuntu thoroughly.

[zmjjmz]

Nonetheless, could you just try out SLED and report back on it? I plan on getting some people to buy it, and they may not want to install Ubuntu.

[archer6]

Nonetheless, could you just try out SLED and report back on it? I plan on getting some people to buy it, and they may not want to install Ubuntu.

I thought of that and was tempted to try it. However I have made a commitment to myself to focus on Ubuntu, and learn it completely so that I can use it to it's maximum potential. Therefore the highest and best use of the time I spend on learning Linux is with Ubuntu.

[cardinals_fan]

I thought of that and was tempted to try it. However I have made a commitment to myself to focus on Ubuntu, and learn it completely so that I can use it to it's maximum potential. Therefore the highest and best use of the time I spend on learning Linux is with Ubuntu.
It's preinstalled! Give it 5 minutes! :)

[LaRoza]

I thought of that and was tempted to try it. However I have made a commitment to myself to focus on Ubuntu, and learn it completely so that I can use it to it's maximum potential. Therefore the highest and best use of the time I spend on learning Linux is with Ubuntu.

Come on, a quick look at it, try to install something, check out the repos and see how well it runs :-)

[archer6]

cardinals_fan & LaRoza
I know it would not take long for most people to check it out. However I on the other hand, being a software engineer, & very curious, would not be able to stop. I would lose track of time from being so focused & interested in it that I would burn up at least four hours, then find it next to impossible to wipe it off the drive. I'm just too much in love with technology, and anything new (to me) that presents a challenge & learning opportunity. It's what compelled me to get Dual Masters Degrees from MIT in Electrical Engineering & Computer Science. I'm such a geek....;)



Stop after 30 minutes?
Who me....:)


sent via: BlackBerry

[toupeiro]

My T60p Workstation class ThinkPad has a 7200rpm hard drive. As do two other ThinkPads I have, and here is what my experience has been with those drives.

1) Yes they do impact battery life but not to the extent that it's deal breaker for me. However it might be for some.

2) I cannot hear the 5400rpm drive in my T60, however the 7200rpm drive in my T60p sounds like a jet engine, not to say it's objectionable, just noticeable. I personally do not care as it's not that loud, but some people do not like it. Due to the nature of the work I do, (modeling & rendering, 3D design & other disc intensive engineering work) the 7200 rpm is a must on that ThinkPad. For regular mainstream work I find 5400 the sweet spot.

3) Heat is noticeable with a 7200rpm drive and the fan runs more often, however again, I'm really taxing it with some of the work I do.

So there are some thoughts based on my experience over several years, lots of Thinkpads and a variety of work.

Cheers.....:)

This is a complete matter of opinion, but if I am buying a thinkpad, I am already making the decision that I am not willing to pay for lesser quality components. Thinkpads are not the cheapest laptops available, but with that fact comes the other fact that they have a very good reputation for being built very well and outlasting other laptops. When I say lesser quality components, that's not to say that 5400rpm drives are bad, but keep in mind that your drive is the absolute slowest point of I/O in your entire system. The faster your drive is, the better your entire system will operate overall. With the discount pricing on current generation lenovo's, I would not pass a 7200RPM drive up. If you're worried about power draw, I'd opt for the 9-cell battery upgrade or maybe a spare.

[graabein]

My friend has had several laptops the last few years and he's very pleased with his Thinkpad.

Mind you, I don't think he works on very cpu/disk intensive tasks so I don't know what speed his hard drive is... Probably 5400rpm I guess.

[MONODA]

i have a 3945 card, it is well supported but I have to do a little tweaking on my laptop to get it to work, you probably wont have to.

[archer6]

keep in mind that your drive is the absolute slowest point of I/O in your entire system. The faster your drive is, the better your entire system will operate overall. With the discount pricing on current generation lenovo's, .
Well said!
Your point about the HDD being the slowest point in the I/O of the system is very true. Also as you stated, the cost to go with a 7200rpm drive is very low due to the significant discounts. When re framed as you have here, it does make sense to go for the fastest. Nice work!



Cheers.....;)
sent via: BlackBerry

[chimerical_brio]

Well, should I decide to get the Linux version, I'll happily report back on how SUSE is. My one concern is the wireless card: does anyone have any opinions on whether the 4965AGN is significantly better than the 3945ABG? Because the 4965 is not an option for the Linux laptop.

[archer6]

My one concern is the wireless card: does anyone have any opinions on whether the 4965AGN is significantly better than the 3945ABG? Because the 4965 is not an option for the Linux laptop.
The ThinkPad R61 that is configured, approved, and certified for Linux, comes equipped with the components that are Linux friendly. The card it comes with is the Intel card, which is superior. I have had both the Intel and the ThinkPad cards and when I installed Ubuntu on my T60 with the same Intel card my WiFi worked perfectly with no attention required. Earlier when installed Ubuntu on my R51e with a ThinkPad card I had all kinds of issues getting the WiFi to work. And while I finally did, It still only connects, and operates at about 50% of the speed and signal strength of the Intel card. Finally, there are not enough reasons to need N yet, so I would not even think about it.

The exact reason that I ordered the R61 with SUSE, is not because it already has Linux preloaded, but because it's IBM/Lenovo certified as Linux compatible. Therefore one gets all the right components, at an incredibly good price.

I would highly encourage you to leave the WiFi card as it is, and simply choose the processor/memory/hdd options that you want.

[chimerical_brio]

Alright, two final questions:

1. Is it worth ~$40 to upgrade the CPU from the T8100 (2.1GHZ, 3MBL2 cache) to the T8300 (2.4GHZ, 3MBL2 cache). or $117 to upgrade to the T9300 (2.5GHZ, 6MBL2 cache). Again, this machine won't be doing anything too intense, but I do want it to last me 4+ years.

2. My options for 2GB of RAM are: "2 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory", in 1 or 2 DIMMs. Which should I get?

Thanks so much for all the help.

[archer6]

Alright, two final questions:

1. Is it worth ~$40 to upgrade the CPU from the T8100 (2.1GHZ, 3MBL2 cache) to the T8300 (2.4GHZ, 3MBL2 cache). or $117 to upgrade to the T9300 (2.5GHZ, 6MBL2 cache). Again, this machine won't be doing anything too intense, but I do want it to last me 4+ years.

2. My options for 2GB of RAM are: "2 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory", in 1 or 2 DIMMs. Which should I get?

Thanks so much for all the help.

1) I'm running a 2.0GHz and it's very fast. Plus Ubuntu takes far less to run than XP since I have both XP and Ubuntu on this computer , and both running natively I can do a very accurate comparison, and the speed that Ubuntu runs at is quite noticeably faster than XP pro. Therefore I would not suggest upgrading. Even though the first step is only $40, save it, as the actually difference between 2.1 and 2.4 is so minute you will not notice it.

2) Now this ones easy. I would get the config with one (dimm) memory chip, that way you have one open slot, so if in the future you want to go 3GB you will not be throwing away perfectly good memory. I'm running 2GB, I have a friend with the same T60 as mine, he's running 3GB and the difference is simply not noticeable. However the argument to leave an open slot for future expansion is because you never know if you might switch Operating Systems, or begin to run more demanding software. While I highly doubt you would ever need it, at least since you have a choice and memory will make your computer faster than either of the faster chips, I would buy 2GB on one memory chip and leave the other slot open.

Questions?

Cheers.....:)