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KLRWLF
June 26th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Ok, with the fact that fuel costs are skyrocketing, I had decided to search for a way to help with my fuel consumption. I am sure many have done the same. I drive less, ride my mountain bike more often and have been doing a ton more running.

I found myself doing a ton of research on Hydrogen as a fuel source by splitting H2O into Hydrogen and Oxygen through water electrolysis. I have found that there are many people out there that have been building their own fuel cells which produce Hydrogen and the Hydrogen gets sent directly into the intake and into the carburetor. The only thing, there are not enough people out there with the knowledge that Hydrogen is a viable source of fuel that can be taken directly from water. There are of course some scammers out there like always selling bad products or inaccurate directions at a high cost. Hopefully, educating everyone can eliminate most of those problems. While these small devices may not be able to run your vehicle on Hydrogen from water alone, it will increase your MPG. I am sure once the technology matures throughout the community, a better device may be able to run a vehicle on hydrogen alone that you can afford without having to buy a matchbox car to drive.

Where does Open Source come in? Experiment and share the results in an open forum. Where does Linux come in? Hoping to maybe use an open source software program that can accurately read data such as Revolutions per minute (RPM), amperage (Amp), Miles per Gallon (MPG), etc through a mini console within the vehicle which can output the data for analysis and comparison. There are existing consoles out there (http://www.scangauge.com/) which do this already, just trying to involve a very light weight linux-based OS into this.

I can post a crazy amount of links here for those who may need a bit more info. It sounds far fetched but this idea is nothing new. It is just suppressed technology that has been around since the steam engine.

While my programming skills are limited, sharing the info is not. If others are more inclined to be able to assist and spread the word, go for it. I will give you a virtual hi-5! I am really serious about getting this info out there on Open Source forums as I feel this is a form of Open Source Technology that we all really need.

Anyone have any insight?

Linkages:

Forums:

Yahoo Watercar Group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar/
See files: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar/files/

Yahoo Hydroxyfied Group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hydroxified/

Yahoo Hydroxy Group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydroxy/ (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydroxy/)

Hydrogen Producing Products:

Fine but a basic idea, could be better: http://www.vadaenergy.com/

Bada$$, same idea but expensive: http://www.hydrorunner.com/products.html

Marketing for generators and shipping industry: http://hytechapps.com/

Good idea, stingy on specs so no real data: http://www.hydraficient.com/drupal/

Go Canada: http://www.chechfi.ca/product_ltseries.htm

http://www.hy-drive.com/ (http://www.hy-drive.com/)

http://www.hypowerfuel.com/product_hydro.html (http://www.hypowerfuel.com/product_hydro.html)

New: http://www.genepax.co.jp/en/index.html

Gorilla: http://www.gethydropower.com/products.html (http://www.gethydropower.com/products.html)

Good layout of products to use: http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/index.html

http://stores.homestead.com/hydrogengarage/StoreFront.bok

http://www.xo1ox.net/hho/shop/ (http://www.xo1ox.net/hho/shop/)

Cool: http://www.xogen.ca/services.php
Video: http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=9AonkgeeCUE&rel=1&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//i.ytimg.com/vi/9AonkgeeCUE/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskLlW48gAxmNMosT3_fsHlAX&hl=en

Smack Booster: open sourced: http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

DaBomb: http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/

Not sure: http://befreetech.com/xcart/catalog/Hydro-Assist-Fuel-Cell-System-p-16176.html


Catalytic Converter:

http://www.preignitioncc.com/woj/
http://www.befreetech.com/save_gas.htm


Sensors:

http://www.scangauge.com/ (http://www.scangauge.com/)
http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electronics_detail.asp?id=260&pageNum=1

Resources:

Patent Specs (Could be better): http://www.rexresearch.com/griffin/griffin.htm

Suppressed Technologies (grain of salt but good info) http://befreetech.com/energysuppression.htm

Cool! http://www.waterengine.org/

Lots of resources: http://www.panaceauniversity.org/

Downloadable eBook/chapters; good resource: http://www.free-energy-info.com/index.html
(http://www.free-energy-info.com/index.html)
Be green: http://www.h2andyou.org/

Not quite sure I want to keep filling up at a station. There has to be another method of developing Hydrogen. http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/media/headlines.asp

http://byronnewenergy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

News:

A better test can be made public than this: http://www.wptv.com/content/specialreports/story.aspx?content_id=74b15465-2ebb-49e0-acb1-939c4bb13a28
http://www.hydro4000.com/ (http://www.hydro4000.com/)

http://www.greentechgazette.com/index.php/hydrogen-cars/run-your-car-on-water/ (http://www.greentechgazette.com/index.php/hydrogen-cars/run-your-car-on-water/)

Video:

http://www.livevideo.com/byte312


On eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HHO-Fuel-Cell-Electrolyzer-Hydrogen-Brown-Gas-Generator_W0QQitemZ230260090648QQihZ013QQcategoryZ 3240QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Seren
June 26th, 2008, 09:05 PM
It takes as much energy to break H2O into H2 and O that it will produce when you burn H2 and O into H2O.

So even if the later reaction is interesting to use in an engine, H2 can not be considered as a fuel, or an energy source since there is no natural source of H2 on Earth.

So you have to invest energy first to get H2 from water. Energy coming from whatever you want : solar, oil, coal, uranium..

I am not sure that I am clear enough but H2 is not a source, rather a medium.

It is not a suppressed technology, it is simply not as good as just burning oil. Well as long as we have cheap oil...

KLRWLF
June 26th, 2008, 10:07 PM
You are correct that it takes as much energy to break H2O into hydrogen and that it may be a medium. However, the vehicle's battery is charged by the alternator when the vehicle is running. When the vehicle is not running, I have seen small solar panel (about the size of a dollar bill) used to trickle charge the battery when the vehicle is not in use. If someone can power a hi-tech sound system in their vehicle than, then someone can create power to break H2O into Hydrogen. This will ultimately increase MPG and lower fuel costs without creating as much pollution.

I would like to hear ideas on how to make this idea work better and more efficient.

madjr
June 26th, 2008, 10:57 PM
You are correct that it takes as much energy to break H2O into hydrogen and that it may be a medium. However, the vehicle's battery is charged by the alternator when the vehicle is running. When the vehicle is not running, I have seen small solar panel (about the size of a dollar bill) used to trickle charge the battery when the vehicle is not in use. If someone can power a hi-tech sound system in their vehicle than, then someone can create power to break H2O into Hydrogen. This will ultimately increase MPG and lower fuel costs without creating as much pollution.

I would like to hear ideas on how to make this idea work better and more efficient.

Hydrogen is the future

but not the present (it's highly explosive and costly to produce)

i suggest you look into other easier/safer/cheaper alternatives (hybrids maybe?)

the solution will only come when governments decide to really invest

Choad
June 26th, 2008, 11:14 PM
Hydrogen is the future

but not the present (it's highly explosive and costly to produce)

i suggest you look into other easier/safer/cheaper alternatives (hybrids maybe?)

the solution will only come when governments decide to really invest
i read on slashdot the other day that reducing the weight of your car by 10% saves you more fuel than if you were to convert it to a hybrid. O.o

bsharp
June 26th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Hydrogen is the future

but not the present (it's highly explosive and costly to produce)


This creates the hydrogen as-needed; it's not kept in a "hydrogen tank". It produced from water as needed, keeping the amount of hydrogen on-board very low.

Hydrogen is being used now by individuals creating HHO/gasoline hybrids:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2P1V21DeSs

madjr
June 26th, 2008, 11:42 PM
This creates the hydrogen as-needed; it's not kept in a "hydrogen tank". It produced from water as needed, keeping the amount of hydrogen on-board very low.

Hydrogen is being used now by individuals creating HHO/gasoline hybrids:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2P1V21DeSs

if everything is good go for it

but am seen some "explosive" videos ,so watch out.

what about http://RunYourCarWithWater.org

http://youtube.com/watch?v=veAaY_k5eHI&feature=related

KLRWLF
June 26th, 2008, 11:45 PM
I think hydrogen is the present. It is time to start developing so that in the future it will be here.

Hydrogen is highly explosive but in a small generator such as the products I am talking about, there is not enough to cause you vehicle to transform into a bomb. It produces and gets used right away.

I would like to look into other easier, safer, methods but they are costly or are ridiculous looking. People still drive SUVs on the highway and riding in a golf cart on a CA highway is suicide. lol

I don't think we should wait for the govt to invest since they are now trying to do offshore drilling. There is more money to be made in the oil industry.



Hydrogen is the future

but not the present (it's highly explosive and costly to produce)

i suggest you look into other easier/safer/cheaper alternatives (hybrids maybe?)

the solution will only come when governments decide to really invest

KLRWLF
June 27th, 2008, 12:26 AM
Hydrogen is being used now by individuals creating HHO/gasoline hybrids:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2P1V21DeSs

This one looks to be very clean looking but I would still like to see more detailed results. The product page is http://www.tnhybrids.com/. While the increases in MPG are there, I am sure the MPG can be increased with better design.

KLRWLF
June 27th, 2008, 12:47 AM
what about http://RunYourCarWithWater.org

I would consider them a scam site. They are selling info that is readily available and it is loaded with links. You can do a search on Google for the file. See the attached zip files as examples of plans that can be downloaded.

I would read more on this chapter first as some of the research has already been done and some of the scammers have been exposed. Though, there are scammers created every minute looking for the quick buck. http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf

What I am hoping is that everyone can get the word out that there is a short-term solution to reducing fuel costs. Just experiment from the better designs to create a more efficient design.

philliptweedie
June 27th, 2008, 01:19 AM
Maybe this would be interesting to you, saw the site on a blog about 2 minutes before I saw this post.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/what-ecomodding-256.html

KLRWLF
June 27th, 2008, 01:50 AM
Maybe this would be interesting to you, saw the site on a blog about 2 minutes before I saw this post.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/what-ecomodding-256.html

Cool site! Thanks. :)

zekopeko
June 27th, 2008, 02:31 AM
i don't think that hydrogen should be the future. you basically use electric energy to extract it from H2O and then simply burn it the engine.

the future should be electric cars. you only have to transfer energy to the batteries. and batteries of the future (and today) can hold insane amounts of energy. not too mention that an electric engine has something like 90% efficiency rating while a good old gas based one has something like 25-30% the rest is wasted on heat and friction.

watch the movie "who killed the electric car" to get a better understanding.

klange
June 27th, 2008, 04:00 AM
It takes as much energy to break H2O into H2 and O that it will produce when you burn H2 and O into H2O.

So even if the later reaction is interesting to use in an engine, H2 can not be considered as a fuel, or an energy source since there is no natural source of H2 on Earth.
And no one in the scientific community is considering it as such. Fuel cell indicates a way of storing energy. The most popular green method of breaking down water is simple hydrolysis powered by some solar cells.



i don't think that hydrogen should be the future. you basically use electric energy to extract it from H2O and then simply burn it the engine.

the future should be electric cars. you only have to transfer energy to the batteries. and batteries of the future (and today) can hold insane amounts of energy. not too mention that an electric engine has something like 90% efficiency rating while a good old gas based one has something like 25-30% the rest is wasted on heat and friction.

But a hydrogen powered engine provides more power and for longer periods of time. Hydrogen is, again, a storage method.

KLRWLF
June 27th, 2008, 04:01 AM
Electric cars have their limits as well; speed and distance. What will happen if everyone plugs in their car at night? We will have huge power shortages. It does not seem feasible for half the population of the US to own an electric car, let alone the world. Electric cars will need an additional source of power as to not strain the already strained power grids which of course use fossil fuels to power themselves. Unless we then power the grids with Nuclear Power Plants which we would then need more of to produce the amount of power required for the current power shortages and then some. But, who wants to live near a nuclear power plant?

The thing is, I am sure there is a way to use water as a source of energy that just has not been thought of yet. I would say the same with cars that only run on batteries that are charged via an alternator/generator/solar, etc, but alone using electricity just does not seem feasible. We will be off of the oil companies but we will have a new one called the Electric Company. Then people will be building Solar Home kits to reduce their electric bill.


i don't think that hydrogen should be the future. you basically use electric energy to extract it from H2O and then simply burn it the engine.

the future should be electric cars. you only have to transfer energy to the batteries. and batteries of the future (and today) can hold insane amounts of energy. not too mention that an electric engine has something like 90% efficiency rating while a good old gas based one has something like 25-30% the rest is wasted on heat and friction.

watch the movie "who killed the electric car" to get a better understanding.

KLRWLF
June 27th, 2008, 04:19 AM
It seems someone had the same idea as me. They developed an Open Source electronic fuel economy gauge.

Opengauge / MPGuino: DIY open source electronic fuel economy gauge

The key to evaluating vehicle mods or driving techniques is feedback - fuel economy instrumentation. Owners of vehicles made after 1996 can opt for a ScanGauge, but where does that leave everyone else? That's what various EcoModder members (led by dcb) plan to address with the Arduino-based, Opengauge/MPGuino project which will work in any fuel injected vehicle with a VSS (vehicle speed sensor).

http://ecomodder.com/forum/opengauge-mpguino-fe-computer.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/opengauge-development-gunio-technical-considerations-1725.html

madjr
June 27th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Electric cars have their limits as well; speed and distance. What will happen if everyone plugs in their car at night? We will have huge power shortages. It does not seem feasible for half the population of the US to own an electric car, let alone the world. Electric cars will need an additional source of power as to not strain the already strained power grids which of course use fossil fuels to power themselves. Unless we then power the grids with Nuclear Power Plants which we would then need more of to produce the amount of power required for the current power shortages and then some. But, who wants to live near a nuclear power plant?

The thing is, I am sure there is a way to use water as a source of energy that just has not been thought of yet. I would say the same with cars that only run on batteries that are charged via an alternator/generator/solar, etc, but alone using electricity just does not seem feasible. We will be off of the oil companies but we will have a new one called the Electric Company. Then people will be building Solar Home kits to reduce their electric bill.

yes, probably.

what type of car you have?

i hope is not an suv

KLRWLF
June 27th, 2008, 09:12 PM
yes, probably.

what type of car you have?

i hope is not an suv

I have a 2006 Toyota Tacoma 4cyl 5spd manual transmission. I refuse to purchase a V6/V8 as I have no use for an engine of that size but I do need a pickup. When I drive on the highway, I take it out of gear and sometimes coast to save on gas. Lately, I have been riding my mountain bike more often which I only now fuel my truck every 2-3 weeks. So, I think I am doing ok.

I would still like to spread the word about using hydrogen as an added or alternate fuel source. I think we all have to think outside the box and not wait for something that we are told to fill at the pump again.