openSUSE 11 vs ubuntu/kubuntu 8.04

[Redrazor39]

Which is easiest to use, most user friendly, looks better, and easiest to get community/forum support for? I've used ubuntu for a couple of months but I hated the GNOME interface so I tried kubuntu and liked KDE, but I've heard a lot of stuff about how kubuntu is KDE but totally mangled and screwed. I have also heard a lot of good stuff about openSUSE.

Is openSUSE 11 any good? Is it better than ubuntu or kubuntu? Only answer if you've used both, please.

[cardinals_fan]

I prefer openSUSE for KDE, and I despise GNOME. So, my position's clear :)

[ibutho]

I wouldn't go as far as to say openSUSE is better than Ubuntu because that depends on the user, but if you like KDE, openSUSE is one of the distros that does KDE justice. Their tweaks don't leave you with a buggy, crippled version of KDE.

[Redrazor39]

I do like KDE and I don't like GNOME's clunky and inefficient interface, although it is easy to figure out. KDE also looks beautiful and oxygen icons are great \\:D/

Also, some things like raptor-menu only work in KDE (4) and I'm going to make a thread asking for help because I haven't been able to get that right in kubuntu, so I'm hoping someone can walk me through this in openSUSE.

[Antman]

openSUSE does KDE4 right, just like KFC does chicken right...! :guitar:

[Redrazor39]

OMG I'm trying the openSUSE live CD with KDE and it's AWESOME! Everything seems so RIGHT!!!!!

Is openSUSE free software as defined by the free software foundation?

[ibutho]

Is openSUSE free software as defined by the free software foundation?
No its not because it enables users to install proprietary apps like Flash, Adobe Reader, Realplayer, Nvidia drivers etc, via YAST. Very few distros meet the FSFs criteria of being "free".

[some-guy]

Is openSUSE free software as defined by the free software foundation?
As pointed out, adding the proprietary software (which ubuntu also doesn't follow), and the fact that you can't include any Novell/Suse branding in derived distros

Also, As a heads up, SuSE's KDE4 has many fixes and enhancement from KDE4.1 backported

If you want to get full KDE4.1, simply add the KDE:KDE4:Unstable Repo (http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/UNSTABLE:/Desktop/openSUSE_11.0/)

[Redrazor39]

I like KDE now because GNOME always felt cluttered to me. Also, the panel looks cooler in KDE :)

[sink]

The panel of KDE is completely **** for me, I love the gnome panel, it look so clean and easy to use. also I love smaller icons,

gnome is fareffective for me.

I just try open suse, and it is quite a nightmare for me. :(

I just come back to ubuntu and it feels like heaven again.

[speedwell68]

Can't say I am a fan of KDE, to me it just seems overcomplicated compared to GNOME. So I have recently installed OpenSuse 11 and I just didn't like it. It's implementation of GNOME was appalling compared to Ubuntu.

[Sorivenul]

openSUSE is far and away a KDE-centric system. I agree that the backports from KDE 4.1 are great, and in comparison to Ubuntu/Kubuntu 8.04, openSUSE 11 gets my vote. Also, it took much more effort to get an Ubuntu setup that works the way I prefer. Take this with a grain of salt though, as it still really depends on what the user wants from the system. For me the *buntus have become more of a hobby, while my FreeBSD and openSUSE systems are where I do most of my work.

[some-guy]

openSUSE is far and away a KDE-centric system.
They put the same effort in gnome, 11.0 simply had incorporated a KDE4 hybrid, KDE3 and Gnome didn't see many changes, as always, in suse, the theme doesn't really change much(after it's established), the main changes with suse are
- Upgraded Versions
- KDE4 hybrid added
- Better livecds
- Xfce got suse artwork
- libzypp is super speed
- YaST's software frontends were changed
- YaST got a QT4 interface

And only two of them are KDE-centric, and that is simply because they made huge changes

[Redrazor39]

openSUSE is far and away a KDE-centric system. I agree that the backports from KDE 4.1 are great, and in comparison to Ubuntu/Kubuntu 8.04, openSUSE 11 gets my vote. Also, it took much more effort to get an Ubuntu setup that works the way I prefer. Take this with a grain of salt though, as it still really depends on what the user wants from the system. For me the *buntus have become more of a hobby, while my FreeBSD and openSUSE systems are where I do most of my work.

Tell me, do you have a GUI set up for FreeBSD? Are there cool applications on FreeBSD? Is it easy to use? Are there good themes available for FreeBSD? I'm really considering checking it out but I just don't know enough about it.

[pape]

I think both of these are great Linux systems, and it seems that each new version brings something new into the game. Currently my desktop is openSUSE 11 with KDE 3, and laptop is openSUSE 10.3 with KDE 3 as well. But these keep changing once in a while... I would anyway recommend Ubuntu to any new linux user - probably because it has more momentum going for itself.

[RebounD11]

I would recommend openSUSE 11 over any *buntu flavor. It looks nice, it's fast, it has better OOB hardware detection and configuration and I find both Gnome and KDE (3.5 and 4) implementations better than in (K)Ubuntu.

IMO it's one of the best distros out there, and with it's great configuration GUI (Yast) I would recommend it to any new Linux user. And BTW, zypper - the CLI package management tool - is way faster than it was in 10.3 - it could easily rival apt - and Novell's version of OpenOffice.org can open .docx files (which unfortunately are very widespread among the faculty's Intranet) without errors, glitches and/or huge changes in page setup (neither the Ubuntu 8.04's OOo, nor the Fedora 9's one could have done this).

Furthermore, the installer is awesome and it gives you way more options without giving you a headache and while remaining very intuitive. The installation is faster than 10.3's and it seemed a little faster than Ubuntu's too when only selecting the software that comes with Ubuntu.

The software selection is somewhat limited relative to Ubuntu's, but with it's nice 1-click install feature that installs apps directly from their website and a very well organized and fully documented wiki you can get up and running in no-time and get pretty much everything you need working well from the first attempt.

Another thing I've noticed is that openSUSE receives more updates and bugfixes after the official release. The only problem I've had with it so far was that I had to use Yast to run updates since the updater-applet didn't do that right... it said it did but in fact the updates weren't installed. However this was fixed before I could fill out a bug report (took about 2 days after I installed it until an update fixed the problem, that's about 3 week to 1 month after the release). Since then it's working flawlessly, even my sound setup worked right away(2.1 stereo speakers plugged in the FRONT output jack of my soundcard and the headset plugged in the REAR jack of the same soundcard, using one or both outputs at the same time with the duplicate front option), even if I changed the Pulseaudio volume control to the more familiar alsamixer.

I think it's pretty obvious at this moment that I would recommend openSUSE 11 over any *buntu at any time.

[Redrazor39]

That's how I felt when I used openSUSE. I went back to ubuntu because of the community, but opensuse does so..much...right!

[RebounD11]

That's how I felt when I used openSUSE. I went back to ubuntu because of the community, but opensuse does so..much...right!

The SUSE community is OK too, besides you don't have to use Ubuntu to be a part of this community :D (I haven't used it in more than an year now... I installed it on several other systems but not on mine).

[ibutho]

The SUSE community is OK too, besides you don't have to use Ubuntu to be a part of this community :D (I haven't used it in more than an year now... I installed it on several other systems but not on mine).

I barely use Ubuntu, but I like hanging out at their forums. openSUSE is my main distro, but I also use CentOS, Debian and FreeBSD. My experience with Debian kind of helps on these forums.

[Redrazor39]

You're right. I figure that once I become advanced with ubuntu I can move on to learn another OS, but after all the help I've gotten and will get, I feel the need to give back to the community and help others for a while before just hanging out in the Cafe.

[RebounD11]

You're right. I figure that once I become advanced with ubuntu I can move on to learn another OS, but after all the help I've gotten and will get, I feel the need to give back to the community and help others for a while before just hanging out in the Cafe.

Some problems aren't Ubuntu specific an you can still help, and you can also become useful in the Other OS Talk section. You don't really need to hang out only in the cafe if you don't use Ubuntu.

[Redrazor39]

I see...

I just burned an Ubuntu 8.04.1 live CD (OMG SO MANY CDs USED!!!)

Should I just go back to openSUSE and try that again? I love KDE4 and KDE 4.1.1 is due in openSUSE in December, but then Intrepid comes in September!

I don't know what to do. I don't want to triple boot because that will be too confusing, but I did have problems with the openSUSE splash screens

Oh gosh this is so hard. My dad has a computer with 200GB of unused space and a crapped up, old, factory installed copy of XP that's so slow we go downstairs and make tea while it starts up. I want to install Ubuntu or some other OS on that SO MUCH.

[cardinals_fan]

Tell me, do you have a GUI set up for FreeBSD? Are there cool applications on FreeBSD? Is it easy to use? Are there good themes available for FreeBSD? I'm really considering checking it out but I just don't know enough about it.
I feel like I already answered this question...

FreeBSD does NOT come with a pretty little GUI. There are no graphical wizards to hold your hand. You need to work with the command line, just as you do with Arch, Gentoo, or Slackware. It's a fantastic learning experience. Read the FreeBSD Handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html) cover-to-cover. As far as software selection, FreeBSD has tons of software available through Ports (http://www.freebsd.org/ports/index.html).

If that sounds like too much work, consider PC-BSD (http://www.pcbsd.org/) or DesktopBSD (http://www.desktopbsd.net/). Both have a GUI by default (KDE) and loads of graphical apps to make the system beginner-friendly.

I mean no offense, but you could answer any of your questions with five minutes of googling. Especially if you go the FreeBSD route, self-reliance and a willingness to put in some effort are necessary.

[Redrazor39]

Thanks, cardinals_fan, but you already told me this. I was wondering if ibutho specifically had that stuff set up. The first question was "Do you have a GUI set up for FreeBSD?

I probably didn't word that clear enough and that's my fault. I should have asked if he had just stuck with the command line.

[cardinals_fan]

Thanks, cardinals_fan, but you already told me this. I was wondering if ibutho specifically had that stuff set up. The first question was "Do you have a GUI set up for FreeBSD?

I probably didn't word that clear enough and that's my fault. I should have asked if he had just stuck with the command line.
Ah, yes. No problem :)

The chances that he stuck with the command line are rather remote unless he's only using FreeBSD as a server. (Or she, I don't know)

[Redrazor39]

I see. I always wondered if people who had the option to use a GUI (regular desktop users) did all their work (word processing, etc) via the command line. Is it even possible to make a spreadsheet/presentation via the command line?

[cardinals_fan]

I see. I always wondered if people who had the option to use a GUI (regular desktop users) did all their work (word processing, etc) via the command line. Is it even possible to make a spreadsheet/presentation via the command line?
I believe that there's a CLI presentation app, but I'm not sure. I use Vim for all my word processing (I write in HTML).

[danbuter]

OpenSUSE 11.0 with KDE 3.5.9 is great. With KDE4, it is garbage.

[ibutho]

Ah, yes. No problem :)

The chances that he stuck with the command line are rather remote unless he's only using FreeBSD as a server. (Or she, I don't know)

I'm a he ;)


I was wondering if ibutho specifically had that stuff set up. The first question was "Do you have a GUI set up for FreeBSD?


I prefer working in a GUI for day to day stuff, so I have KDE 3.5.x installed on FreeBSD 6.3 although I seem to always have a terminal emulator running. On servers, I stick to using the CLI.

[RebounD11]

OpenSUSE 11.0 with KDE 3.5.9 is great. With KDE4, it is garbage.

I have to disagree :D

[gabhla]

My bias is I prefer KDE and tend to favor the KDE centric distros. That's just me. But, it's hard to compare distros for others because so much is dependent upon personal choice, which is one of the things I like best about Linux.

But, I really like openSuse 11 and would say it's easier to set-up for a newbie then Ubuntu mainly due to ease of installing flash and java. The hardware detection is much improved over previous versions and better then Ubuntu's. Also, I'd agree with some of the other posts, they certainly do KDE4 right - really cool. So, in sum, I'd have to say it's great - one of the best distros to come along since Ubuntu.

So, which is "better"? Who knows? I don't.

[Ptero-4]

Between the two, the *buntu's. But that's because I don't like the Novell/M$ thing.

[Fatec]

Between the two, the *buntu's. But that's because I don't like the Novell/M$ thing.

You know that is a real pathetic excuse to not like a distro.

[Ptero-4]

You know that is a real pathetic excuse to not like a distro.

Yeah I know. it just that I got a grudge against M$.

[msrinath80]

You know that is a real pathetic excuse to not like a distro.

I would not call that a pathetic excuse. If it were not for the contributions of people like RMS, Linus et al., we would never have seen free software like GNU/Linux come all this way. Also SuSE would not even exist in the first place. When distributions backed by big organizations like Novell start to make allowances with proprietary software companies like M$ in the name of patent protection, it should ring alarm bells everywhere. Why? Freedom from proprietary software did not come to us end users easily. There was significant effort involved. At the very least what we can do as dutiful end users is to avoid using any software that is proprietary. In time, free software will assert itself. But until that time, we need to constantly protect the freedoms it provides us today. For all newbies out there, if you have any doubts on which distro to use, go with the traditionally popular ones that have been nurturing free software growth for several years. Some examples are: Debian (and free derivatives), Red Hat family (Cent OS, Fedora etc.)

Personally, I try my best to avoid using the following:

1. Anything to do with Macromedia (now Adobe) Flash/ShockWave
2. Anything to do with proprietary audio/video formats
3. Anything that needs/uses the Mono (.net) framework. This includes software like FSpot, Beagle etc. See this[1] link for more information on what Miguel (former GNOME president and co-founder) tried to do a few years ago.

References:

[1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/05/explain_yourself_miguel_demands_rms/

[RebounD11]

I would not call that a pathetic excuse. If it were not for the contributions of people like RMS, Linus et al., we would never have seen free software like GNU/Linux come all this way. Also SuSE would not even exist in the first place. When distributions backed by big organizations like Novell start to make allowances with proprietary software companies like M$ in the name of patent protection, it should ring alarm bells everywhere. Why? Freedom from proprietary software did not come to us end users easily. There was significant effort involved. At the very least what we can do as dutiful end users is to avoid using any software that is proprietary. In time, free software will assert itself. But until that time, we need to constantly protect the freedoms it provides us today. For all newbies out there, if you have any doubts on which distro to use, go with the traditionally popular ones that have been nurturing free software growth for several years. Some examples are: Debian (and free derivatives), Red Hat family (Cent OS, Fedora etc.)

Personally, I try my best to avoid using the following:

1. Anything to do with Macromedia (now Adobe) Flash/ShockWave
2. Anything to do with proprietary audio/video formats
3. Anything that needs/uses the Mono (.net) framework. This includes software like FSpot, Beagle etc. See this[1] link for more information on what Miguel (former GNOME president and co-founder) tried to do a few years ago.

References:

[1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/05/explain_yourself_miguel_demands_rms/

I thought openSUSE was one of the traditionally popular ones...

@Ptero-4
If you have something against MS don't use their products (I have the same grudge after the sold me a virus infected DVD with Visual Studio 2008)

If you have sth against Novell don't use SUSE.. but openSUSE is free-software imo. It isn't influenced by the Novell/MS deal.

[msrinath80]

I thought openSUSE was one of the traditionally popular ones...

@Ptero-4
If you have something against MS don't use their products (I have the same grudge after the sold me a virus infected DVD with Visual Studio 2008)

If you have sth against Novell don't use SUSE.. but openSUSE is free-software imo. It isn't influenced by the Novell/MS deal.

If OpenSuSE did not have anything to do with Novell, I would gladly use it. But just the mention of SuSE in OpenSuSE makes it very icky for me :-(

Also it is listed as a Novell product --> http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/

[some-guy]

Personally, I try my best to avoid using the following:

1. Anything to do with Macromedia (now Adobe) Flash/ShockWave
2. Anything to do with proprietary audio/video formats
3. Anything that needs/uses the Mono (.net) framework. This includes software like FSpot, Beagle etc. See this[1] link for more information on what Miguel (former GNOME president and co-founder) tried to do a few years ago.

References:

[1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/05/explain_yourself_miguel_demands_rms/
*cough*use gNewSense*cough*
:popcorn:

[msrinath80]

*cough*use gNewSense*cough*
:popcorn:

Thanks for the suggestion. As much as I love free software, I have to say that gNewSense is really a *nuisance* distro. It's just a stripped down version of Ubuntu. After the disaster called Hardy, I doubt I want to get entangled with the likes of any Ubuntu derivatives. I use Fedora 9 instead. It works nicely with all my hardware and I can of course always install only the things I need.

[RebounD11]

If OpenSuSE did not have anything to do with Novell, I would gladly use it. But just the mention of SuSE in OpenSuSE makes it very icky for me :-(

Also it is listed as a Novell product --> http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/

I didn't say it wasn't a Novell product (actually it's sponsored by Novell, not produced by them) ... I said it wasn't influenced by the MS/Novell deal.

[msrinath80]

I didn't say it wasn't a Novell product (actually it's sponsored by Novell, not produced by them) ... I said it wasn't influenced by the MS/Novell deal.

"I didn't say it wasn't a Novell product"

No you did not.

"actually it's sponsored by Novell, not produced by them"

That's enough for me to steer clear of it.

[RebounD11]

"I didn't say it wasn't a Novell product"

No you did not.

"actually it's sponsored by Novell, not produced by them"

That's enough for me to steer clear of it.

The choice is yours :D

[lzfy]

I just switched from Kubuntu to openSUSE and I love it. The artwork is better, boots faster, interface is faster, compiz is faster, installing apps is faster and easier. openSUSE 11 is really the best KDE distro I have ever used.

[msrinath80]

I just switched from Kubuntu to openSUSE and I love it. The artwork is better, boots faster, interface is faster, compiz is faster, installing apps is faster and easier. openSUSE 11 is really the best KDE distro I have ever used.

Since everyone is raving about OpenSUSE 11 so much, I decided to sacrifice a CD to try out the live version. My first impression was that the opening screen was very well designed as was the framebuffer console. The last time I tried using KDE was back in 1998, so I was hoping to be caught by surprise once the desktop loaded. Unfortunately this was not totally the case. Although the desktop and the K(?)-menu were well organized, I was continuously distracted by the bumping mouse pointer every time a new application was opened. The fonts were not that good either. I minimized and restored konqueror about 5-8 times rapidly and then after a second, minimized it again and boom, knotify crashed. I could do this repeatedly. This was reminiscent of wnck-applet crashing in GNOME. After running konsole and checking if all my hardware was detected properly, I tried to switch back to konqueror only to be greeted by a hung application.

On the positive side, OpenSUSE detected my WINTV HVR 950 TV tuner out of the box. Of course I still had to copy the firmware file (xc3028-v27.fw) to /lib/firmware before this happened. However, when I tried to download either mplayer or tvtime to try and watch TV (since the KDE TV app failed), I was consistently forced to download 200+ MB of unrelated content (OpenOffice.org and other programs) by the package manager. This was very frustrating.

I then put my camera's SD card in and it was detected and mounted properly after clicking on the appropriate link in 'My Computer'. Some KDE photo management application (was it DigiKam?) was then started so that I could import the photos into some album. Unfortunately, after the application opened, I was lost. I spent about a minute or two trying to find my pictures, but gave up soon and browsed my pictures through konqueror and later gwenview, which I must say is a pretty decent application. Next, I tried to mount my ext3 data partition on disk through the link in 'My Computer' and for some weird reason it would not. So I ended up mounting it manually using sudo over the terminal. I was glad but unsurprised to see OpenSUSE recognize ogg, flac and ogm (video) formats out of the box. I then tried to access my Nokia phone using Bluetooth. Since I could not find a bluetooth icon on the KDE taskbar/notification area(?), I used the search feature in the K-Menu. Merely typing bluetooth gave me all relevant results. I will admit, I was a little impressed.

I also noticed a weird thing on the top right corner of the screen that allowed me to add stuff like a calculator on the desktop and so on. I can only assume that this is some gdesklets equivalent in KDE. I don't quite see the point though. There's too much clutter as it is and this plasma/dashboard thing just adds to more confusion.

To conclude, Although KDE in OpenSUSE looks somewhat attractive from a visual appeal standpoint (not the fonts, maybe it is the colors?), it still does not cut it for me. In 10 years this is the best that KDE developers could do? Maybe I should check again in 2018. Aside: If OpenSUSE's KDE is so well polished according to many folks, I cannot even begin to imagine the kind of experience Kubuntu delivers.

PS: For the record, I use Window Maker on Fedora 9 as my default setup.

[swisscow]

Since everyone is raving about OpenSUSE 11 so much, I decided to sacrifice a CD to try out the live version. My first impression was that the opening screen was very well designed as was the framebuffer console. The last time I tried using KDE was back in 1998, so I was hoping to be caught by surprise once the desktop loaded. Unfortunately this was not totally the case. Although the desktop and the K(?)-menu were well organized, I was continuously distracted by the bumping mouse pointer every time a new application was opened. The fonts were not that good either. I minimized and restored konqueror about 5-8 times rapidly and then after a second, minimized it again and boom, knotify crashed. I could do this repeatedly. This was reminiscent of wnck-applet crashing in GNOME. After running konsole and checking if all my hardware was detected properly, I tried to switch back to konqueror only to be greeted by a hung application.

On the positive side, OpenSUSE detected my WINTV HVR 950 TV tuner out of the box. Of course I still had to copy the firmware file (xc3028-v27.fw) to /lib/firmware before this happened. However, when I tried to download either mplayer or tvtime to try and watch TV (since the KDE TV app failed), I was consistently forced to download 200+ MB of unrelated content (OpenOffice.org and other programs) by the package manager. This was very frustrating.

I then put my camera's SD card in and it was detected and mounted properly after clicking on the appropriate link in 'My Computer'. Some KDE photo management application (was it DigiKam?) was then started so that I could import the photos into some album. Unfortunately, after the application opened, I was lost. I spent about a minute or two trying to find my pictures, but gave up soon and browsed my pictures through konqueror and later gwenview, which I must say is a pretty decent application. Next, I tried to mount my ext3 data partition on disk through the link in 'My Computer' and for some weird reason it would not. So I ended up mounting it manually using sudo over the terminal. I was glad but unsurprised to see OpenSUSE recognize ogg, flac and ogm (video) formats out of the box. I then tried to access my Nokia phone using Bluetooth. Since I could not find a bluetooth icon on the KDE taskbar/notification area(?), I used the search feature in the K-Menu. Merely typing bluetooth gave me all relevant results. I will admit, I was a little impressed.

I also noticed a weird thing on the top right corner of the screen that allowed me to add stuff like a calculator on the desktop and so on. I can only assume that this is some gdesklets equivalent in KDE. I don't quite see the point though. There's too much clutter as it is and this plasma/dashboard thing just adds to more confusion.

To conclude, Although KDE in OpenSUSE looks somewhat attractive from a visual appeal standpoint (not the fonts, maybe it is the colors?), it still does not cut it for me. In 10 years this is the best that KDE developers could do? Maybe I should check again in 2018. Aside: If OpenSUSE's KDE is so well polished according to many folks, I cannot even begin to imagine the kind of experience Kubuntu delivers.

PS: For the record, I use Window Maker on Fedora 9 as my default setup.

From what you say about the weird thing at the top right hand of the screen, this is KDE4 you are using. As we all know this is a watershed development and buggy, it is perhaps not fair to say that this is the best the KDE developers could do in 10 years. KDE3 I have found is a solid (IMHO as solid as Gnome) experience.

Interestingly I loaded a livecd of opensuse kde3 last night and had no trouble with loading wireless, using digikam (fairly clear how it works, similar to iphoto), mounted and accessed both my external hard drive and the ubuntu partition I have without problem. Played a little with Yast, seemed to do what it was designed to do. Certainly had a more polished feel than Kubuntu and less little quirks.

[jmedina]

I have used Opensuse before and for some reason I could never get into it. For some reason I could not get comfortable with Opensuse. I beta tested Opensuse 10.3 before it came out and for my work they sent me a box set of Opensuse 10.3. I like the look of Ubuntu.

[msrinath80]

From what you say about the weird thing at the top right hand of the screen, this is KDE4 you are using. As we all know this is a watershed development and buggy, it is perhaps not fair to say that this is the best the KDE developers could do in 10 years. KDE3 I have found is a solid (IMHO as solid as Gnome) experience.

Interestingly I loaded a livecd of opensuse kde3 last night and had no trouble with loading wireless, using digikam (fairly clear how it works, similar to iphoto), mounted and accessed both my external hard drive and the ubuntu partition I have without problem. Played a little with Yast, seemed to do what it was designed to do. Certainly had a more polished feel than Kubuntu and less little quirks.

An insightful response, indeed. Just one thought. Given the mass resentment toward the new KDE 4.x design, I find it quite surprising that the KDE folks would still consider fostering its development. I'm not implying that they should stop development with KDE 3.x. All I'm saying is why not be receptive to the thoughts of the community and reciprocate accordingly.

Also, is there a OpenSUSE 11 liveCD based on KDE 3.x?

[swisscow]

An insightful response, indeed. Just one thought. Given the mass resentment toward the new KDE 4.x design, I find it quite surprising that the KDE folks would still consider fostering its development. I'm not implying that they should stop development with KDE 3.x. All I'm saying is why not be receptive to the thoughts of the community and reciprocate accordingly.

Also, is there a OpenSUSE 11 liveCD based on KDE 3.x?

My mistake. There isn't a live cd (??) of KDE 3. I used a virtual machine. Thought there would be one though, very surprised there isn't.


As to being insightful, it's just a point of view. Another point of view is that I think it's great to see KDE 4 coming along. I think the mistake KDE (and many Linux distributions) made is that developers seem now to be working more to time deadlines rather than when it's ready, it's ready. But, it's just an opinion.

[SteveHiggins]

I do like KDE and I don't like GNOME's clunky and inefficient interface, although it is easy to figure out. KDE also looks beautiful\\:D/

I do like GNOME and I don't like KDE's clunky and inefficient interface, although it is easy to figure out. GNOME also looks beautiful\\:D/

(Do you see what I did there?)

[Redrazor39]

Ai see wut u did thar

[lazertek]

Which is easiest to use, most user friendly, looks better, and easiest to get community/forum support for? I've used ubuntu for a couple of months but I hated the GNOME interface so I tried kubuntu and liked KDE, but I've heard a lot of stuff about how kubuntu is KDE but totally mangled and screwed. I have also heard a lot of good stuff about openSUSE.

Is openSUSE 11 any good? Is it better than ubuntu or kubuntu? Only answer if you've used both, please.
Wow! you got some pretty good answers to your question... When I opened a thread today about opensuse vs ubuntu support I got flames comin at me from all sides and 7 pages of rampage... I'm glad someone got answered right... I'll contribute my views on opensuse 11 vs 8.04 soon as i test out suse 11.... In congo and download speed is way too slow... it'll take me couple days to download it so I will get back as soon as I get to try it...

[Vorian Grey]

I've tried both KDE and Gnome versions of Opensuse and only the Gnome version of Ubuntu. I only tried the KDE version of Opensuse just to see how 4 was progressing. It seems fairly stable and very usable for such a young product.

Just my opinion here, of course, but Opensuse still has a very long way to go to get to the Ubuntu level. For example, Ubuntu mounted my partitions in r/w mode at boot. In Opensuse, I had to go to the Partitioning tool in Yast and mount the partion. When you add one small thing like that after another, Ubuntu wins the easy to use race by a mile.

[lazertek]

i still have to try out opensuse 11 and i am downloading the live version... hopefully its done till tomorrow... however i know when installing you can set a location to mount your partitions and it will everytime it starts up..

[Redrazor39]

Ok I'm using openSUSE KDE4 now for the second time and I'm totally sick of it. even with KDE 3 or GNOME it's not as good as ubuntu. It reminds me of Vista; it looks nice, but it just doesn't get those little things right that the other guy does (Vista:Mac :: openSUSE:ubuntu, in this case)

I'm gonna kill openSUSE and get back to 8.04.1. It's much more stable now and what can I say, it's ubuntu!

[lxuser2008-X]

I've tried both KDE and Gnome versions of Opensuse and only the Gnome version of Ubuntu. I only tried the KDE version of Opensuse just to see how 4 was progressing. It seems fairly stable and very usable for such a young product.

Just my opinion here, of course, but Opensuse still has a very long way to go to get to the Ubuntu level. For example, Ubuntu mounted my partitions in r/w mode at boot. In Opensuse, I had to go to the Partitioning tool in Yast and mount the partion. When you add one small thing like that after another, Ubuntu wins the easy to use race by a mile.
:-)

Some people over at the Fedora Forums have called/reported the auto-mounting r/w of NTFS (Windows) partitions as a BUG! I AGREE with them and that is ONE of SEVERAL reasons why I do NOT USE Fedora (or Ubuntu) for my main Linux OS.

As Mark Shutleworth has stated that Linux is ready for use by "SOME" people (web surfers), I like to keep completely separate from Linux my Windows partitions and mount them (I only use one on occasions as ntshare) at the console by simple root command mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdax /local/ntshare. Directory /local/ntshare needs to be created first and we get read/write option only when needed. If you want r/w auto-mounting, just install and run ntfs-config package and you will have it. So, your reasoning above, IMHO, is invalid for evaluation and feature comparison!

OpenSUSE for a long time has led all distros in power management for laptops/notebooks and its Yast tool set is far ahead of anything Ubuntu/Debian and Fedora have to offer. Also, Novell has about 300+ Linux engineers employed and a large number of them work on openSUSE development and maintenance and thus one can rely on getting very good security support and quick bug fixes (RHat provide a similar tech/development support to Fedora). I have an Acer laptop that works well with openSUSE 10.3/11.0 and Fedora 8/9 but has had display issues with the last 2 editions of Ubuntu and is still NOT fixed (I guess they are waiting for 'upstream' to fix it whilst the engineering teams at Fedora and openSUSE have made their own patches instead of waiting).

May I suggest that since most hardware we generally use is not certified for Linux, we should use whatever distro best works on any given hardware and avoid distro bashing (bashing other distros).

IMO, Ubuntu is the leader in Linux PROMOTION and has a very fast package manager in Synaptic. And if someone is on dialup or has small download limits broadband plan, I would recommend Ubuntu or derivatives as a good choice as repo refreshes are much smaller than Fedora's or openSUSE's (that should change with 11.1).

[Growbag]

Yeah, the non-use of ntfs3g is a pain in the rear.

But it can be circumvented by running this command in a terminal:


sudo ln -s /sbin/mount.ntfs-3g /sbin/mount.ntfs

That changes the default to ntfs3g.

I used to love Ubuntu but got really peed off with the constant badly thought out updates that borked my system every second week.

Plus it feels like it was put together as a kindergarten project.

But Ubuntu is still a great learners distro :).

[lazertek]

I hardy installed currently and 6 more hours for the opensuse 11 to finish...
Everytime I come across confusing myself and switching between distro's... Sounds familiar, yes a lot people have a hard time sticking to one because each of them have thier advantages. But we can only use one distro at a time I want one I can stick with...

When I first started using linux ubuntu seemed like a great distro and suse was just out of my understanding... As years went by and I learnt more about linux understood how it work tried out several releases of different distro's and now I know suse just like any other distro...

The point is between opensuse and ubuntu which one of these can I stick with and not have to reinstall or redo the whole process everytime... Cuz we all agree these are the best two distro's on earth so far... ;)

UBUNTU
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great disto for first time users... Its completeley customizable so it can be give a polished look like suse or even better... Heck you can make it look just like mac or vista if you are talking about the looks... Great performance and good thing is if you are a newbie and your wireless isn't working fore example you can just copy paste the commands in the command like and there you go its working except you have no idea what just happened lol... So its great for newbie's and advanced users can use just as well....
================================================== ===================================

Opensuse
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something is just very attractive about this distro! At first suse was one of my last choices but now its put an equivalent fight against the choice of ubuntu... You can't disagree that opensuse has the best inital looks upon install... Ofcourse all distro's can be customized to look just like you want so i don't really consider look a very big deal but it defenetly comes into consideration...

I should admit that my biggest problem with suse was the package manager--- wasn't it that for almost everybody...

I haven't installed 11 yet but from what I have been reading in the past 24hrs (lot of info-- feels like I went through the whole net... lol) seems like the package manager has improved a whole lot... and its only a mm away from ubuntu... You know you can install apt and synaptic on suse right! --- so package management with the improvement are equivalent now... SUSE JUST LOOKS MORE PROFESSIONAL---

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================== ==================================

So if everything can look the same work the same whats the problem... It all comes down to personal preference... The only and the biggest difference between these two distros is YAST... But that is not that big of a deal for me and if you are not a newbie shouldn't be for you either unless you care about the look more than functionality....

But there is catch... Suse is slightly more towards the technical side while ubuntu wins the ease for starters...

So if you are having a hard time deciding like I did, then evalute your self

1. Newbie, Intermidiate, or Expert
2. Care about looks more of functionality(which is the same in both)
3. Aren't they both LINUX!

I guess I am going to have my final answer after I get my hands on opensuse 11...

[Sorivenul]

When you add one small thing like that after another, Ubuntu wins the easy to use race by a mile.

Not bashing, but I'm not entirely sure what this means. Seems to me like a simple edit of /etc/fstab would more than likely help with this. I understand that Ubuntu might be easier on that front, but easy isn't always better, and easy often means "easier to mess something up".

Oh, and to answer the earlier quesitons about FreeBSD and GUI, I've run it both ways, as a desktop and as a server. If you want to try FreeBSD and don't want to wait to install a desktop from packages or ports, just try PC-BSD or DesktopBSD, while they won't give you the full experience of setting up your system yourself, they are fine and functional.

[Vorian Grey]

:-)
Some people over at the Fedora Forums have called/reported the auto-mounting r/w of NTFS (Windows) partitions as a BUG! I AGREE with them and that is ONE of SEVERAL reasons why I do NOT USE Fedora (or Ubuntu) for my main Linux OS.


Different strokes for different folks, I guess, but I disagree with them. It is a feature and a very handy one. Most new users who are testing Linux for the first time won't know how to mount partitions by the command line. It's easier, not to mention more impressive, to have it automounted for them. It certainly impressed me when I tried the Ubuntu LiveCD. You can try out your office files in Openoffice, for example, that sit on your Windows partition and know if they work correctly. That is a major point for Ubuntu, IMO.

From growbag:

I used to love Ubuntu but got really peed off with the constant badly thought out updates that borked my system every second week.
Ubuntu 7.04 and 7.10 wouldn't boot for me at all but 8.04 has been great. However, it's best to wait until things smooth out a bit before trying any new version. I only just installed 8.04 when 8.04.1 came out. The same advice goes for Opensuse and Windows and even Mac. Don't be the first to install because if you do you will be a guinea pig.

[lazertek]

upgrading seems to be an issue in almost all distros but it is more stable in suse than ubuntu... atleast from what I have read around... I personally had more break downs in ubuntu but I always managed to fix them... I don't issues that are a little techinal infact I enjoy them but like I said for new linux user ubuntu is takes a little lead in keeping them satisfied but later on they will get a little technical and reconsider their choices... happened to me happened to everyone I know and talked to and i'm sure will happen to the new comers... But either way its linux... atleast we all agree on the base... lol .... 3 more hours till I get to try the opensuse 11

[lazertek]

When researching and comparing differences between the two I came across a forum http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=222189&page=3 that reminded me of the fact that novell patched with microsoft in order not to sue the novell customers... Yes there is this money factor because of which a lot of people don't go to opensuse, but since I believe in advancing technology and using the best possible I can, I don't mind using opensuse because what novell did eventhough I am against it... But that doesn't stop me from using a slightly better product... Or I should say that's what I have come across so far...

[Vorian Grey]

But either way its linux... atleast we all agree on the base...
Yes, I do. I'm glad we have a lot of choices. Ubuntu works for some, Opensuse for others, Fedora for others, and so on. I've tried all the major distros and Ubuntu works for me. If Opensuse works better for someone else, good for them.

We are all on the same team, or at least we should be.

[John T. Monkey]

I hasve been using SUSE 11 for about a week now, and I'm chuffed to bits with it. I wasnt impressed for the first 2 days, but I couldn't be bothered to install Debian again, and it grew on me...

I like YaST :)

[Redrazor39]

I hasve been using SUSE 11 for about a week now, and I'm chuffed to bits with it. I wasnt impressed for the first 2 days, but I couldn't be bothered to install Debian again, and it grew on me...

I like YaST :)
not sure what you mean by that :)

[lazertek]

After supporting SUSE 11 for quite a bit trying to get my self convinced on one side guess that is what the problem is...
We all say there are pros and cons of each distro and yes there are

but look at this people anything you can do on any one distro can be done on the other. The biggest difference is the package management and the settings eg yast in opensuse

After trying out so many thing I came to the conclusion I don't have a preference on the distro's however I do prefer the package management in ubuntu and the settings setup in opensuse...

BUT opensuse can use synaptic and now handles dependencies well and ubuntu settings can be customized like yast...

so there is really no big major difference... it's just that you are expecting one...

but I'll stick with ubuntu because i'm more used to this but think about it yourselves... you can do the same things on both distro's.... nothing you can do on one that can't be done on the other is there? maybe not out of the box always but you can just as well.... isn't it?

[Vorian Grey]

I'm giving 11 another chance. I plan on giving it a week and after that time if I can't learn to at least like it a little I will delete it forever. I hear so many saying that openSuse is completely different from Debian based systems, and that's true. I guess it just time to learn it.

[zipperback]

I prefer openSUSE for KDE, and I despise GNOME. So, my position's clear :)


kubuntu is available with kde3 and kde4.
ubuntu is available with gnome.

You can of course install any desktop interface that you would like from the repositories.

If you simply prefer opensuse for kde, then you might wish to give kubuntu a try.

I installed Suse for a while and found that it didn't meet what I wanted as well as Ubuntu does.

The choice of distribution that you use is up to you of course, as Linux is FREE as in FREEDOM, and you have the freedom to choose what you want.

- zipperback

[zipperback]

None of this fighting about "my distro" is better than "your distro" is good for the community. And yes, I have the same immediate reaction that others do when it comes to my preferred choice of distributions. But that doesn't mean it's a good reaction for the community as a whole.

It really comes down to what works best for the individual needs of a person, or business, or whomever.

:KS Linux is about FREEDOM.

:KS Linux is about CHOICE.

:KS Linux is about the ability to run it on whatever hardware that you want to run it on.

:KS Linux is about making the best and most informed decisions about what works best for YOU.

So rather than continue any kinds of arguments about who's distro is the best.

Lets all work together as a community to to improve Linux as a whole to help it meet everyones needs as best as possible.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[NightwishFan]

I am currently downloading an opensuse 11 dvd. Main reason is that I lack internet at my place of residence, and I cannot continuously update my system or get other software.

OpenSuse is really fast and trim despite what many say about it. The new installer is excellent, and everything has a little bit of polish. I am thinking Ubuntu Intrepid is going to add that bit of extras that make it fun to use. Also OpenSUSE does come with gnome, icewm, windowmaker, xfce, as well as kde3.5.9 and kde4. I personally like many of the desktop enviroments and Window managers, with kde3 as my favorite so far.

[screaminj3sus]

Kubuntu is one of the worst KDE distros, Opensuse is definitely a better choice if you are going KDE.

[NightwishFan]

Kubuntu is not really bad. It doesn't seem to go the extra mile though. Some people prefer to use mainly kde applications, OpenSuse mixes and matches a bit. I like that since I prefer gimp although I like to have krita as well. OpenSuse 11 has both. Kubuntu has neither, oddly.

[bobbybobington]

openSUSE 10 (w/ kde3) was my first distro, and back then it looked slick, although this was around the time xgl was coming out. I ended up moving to ubuntu because it was better at 3d effects.

Recently though, I've gotten bored with Gnome, and kde4 is constantly looking better and better. So I'm thinking of trying out openSUSE again after kde4 stabilizes a bit.

Anyways, imo openSUSE has always had a level of visual polish that ubuntu just cant get, but ubuntu is good at making things so easy! Anyways, I'm wondering how far openSUSE has come in terms of hardware support/"just works" simplicity compared to ubuntu?

[screaminj3sus]

openSUSE 10 (w/ kde3) was my first distro, and back then it looked slick, although this was around the time xgl was coming out. I ended up moving to ubuntu because it was better at 3d effects.

Recently though, I've gotten bored with Gnome, and kde4 is constantly looking better and better. So I'm thinking of trying out openSUSE again after kde4 stabilizes a bit.

Anyways, imo openSUSE has always had a level of visual polish that ubuntu just cant get, but ubuntu is good at making things so easy! Anyways, I'm wondering how far openSUSE has come in terms of hardware support/"just works" simplicity compared to ubuntu?

Suse is getting there, a lot better than it was, now when you install it it when it prompts for the repos to add you can add the nvidia/ati repo which makes driver isntallation a lot easier than it was in ealier versions of suse, although still not as good as ubuntu's very simple restircted driver manager (Although suse's way is actually easier if you have a very new vid card like me because it has more up to date drivers) For the most part everything works well out of the box. It's better than fedora but a bit under ubuntu in terms of pure ease.

Suse definitely does one thing much better than ubuntu which is mentioned above, visual polish. Suse's gnome is simply beutiful, warm inviting colors, sharp polished and more complete icon set. Ubuntu's human icons are really "bleh" first thing I do is switch to tangerine or install the hbon's amazing discovery icons. Tango generator is also great which gets rid of some of ubuntu's crappy outdated non-tango icons.

[EtniesBMX]

I have to disagree :D

same here. kde4 on opensuse absolutely blew away kubuntu's kde4.

[Redrazor39]

Agreed ^^

[david_lynch]

I definitely echo what others here have said - suse offers the far superior kde experience, and ubuntu gives a much better gnome experience.

In the server room, it really depends on your preference. both are solid and capable server OSes. suse has yast, which is nice, but the superior package management capabilities on ubuntu makes up for it IMHO

I like both suse and ubuntu, so I have ubuntu on my laptop, and either ubuntu or suse on all my other computers. At work we're a novell/suse shop, so I do need to keep a hand in that.:)

[imagecko]

I have made the swich from Ubuntu 8.04 to OpenSuse 11.0, and I'm not regretting it.
I think that openSUSE both looks better and works better for me.

[lazertek]

you can always customize the theme... just because the default is not what you like doesn't mean its bad... its the same as opensuse... exactly the same! you can make it look just like it too...

[Vorian Grey]

I definitely echo what others here have said - suse offers the far superior kde experience, and ubuntu gives a much better gnome experience.


Yeah, and that's a problem for me. Gnome on Suse is not as good as the Gnome on Ubuntu (in my opinion, of couse) and yet the KDE offered on the LiveCD is KDE 4, and it is not ready for use. To get KDE 3 installed you need the DVD.

I think I'm through with Suse. It's just a mess.

[Le-Froid]

Tried Kubuntu, absolutely DESPISED it. Tried OpenSUSE, a LOT nicer but harder to set up everything. Still recommend trying OpenSUSE if you want a KDE distro.

[Redrazor39]

Well right now I'm going the other direction and trying fedora. I just installed F8 KDE 3.5 (not the newest because KDE 4 in fedora 9 sucks horribly)

Will upgrade to F10 later.

[garyedwardjohnston]

I think this thread has missed something very important.

KDE Apps are far better than gnome ones.

I started using Ubuntu because it was the most "popular" distro and because it was "marketed" very well. As a noob to Linux it was GREAT!

As I became more comfortable with it, my software junkiness took over.

I'm a software junkie. For each thing I want to do I look for the best software to do the job. This brought me to the undeniable conclusion that KDE Apps are far better than gnome ones.

(I won't get into KDE Apps vs gnome ones in detail but Amarok is the best example.)

One could say that KDE apps run in Ubuntu but the reality is that some do and some don't. This isn't good enough.

So this brings me to try Kubuntu. It is obvious that Canocial doesn't pay the same attention to Kubuntu as it does to Ubuntu (compare the websites and also note the Canocial didn't even bother to make a theme for Kubuntu). I think KDE and Xfce are afterthoughts of Canocial and when running Kubuntu, IMO it becomes obvious.

So now I search for KDE centred distros and came across:

http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3016

This is why I'm downloading openSUSE 11.0. Basically, I'm looking for a KDE centred disro.

[Vorian Grey]

I'm a software junkie. For each thing I want to do I look for the best software to do the job. This brought me to the undeniable conclusion that KDE Apps are far better than gnome ones.


For you maybe. Gnome apps are better to me. It's all very subjective you know. There is no better. We just pick the ones that suit us the best. I'd pick Exaile over Amarok any day. You'd pick Amarok. Choice is good.

That horse has been beat to death at least a million times.

[dca]

And you can install KDE apps on GNOME and vice versa...

[dca]

...not to mention, I'm a hypocrite anyways... My work laptop has Ubuntu 8.04 on it but I use the Guillouche theme along w/ Tango icons a'la openSUSE's GNOME...

[lordadi]

Hi,

If you really want GOOD community support, Ubuntu is the way to go. However, this may have changed since the launch of Suseforums.net (http://news.opensuse.org/2008/06/10/opensuse-launches-merged-forums/). Opensuse is often commended for its impartiallity as to the DE of choice.

OpenSUSE 11 is a pretty good distro however I found that the software library to be not as large as the Ubuntu ones (Ubuntu is able to use rpms through alien but not sure if it works the other way around).


Do not get me wrong, I like openSUSE (it was my distro of choice before Hardy). However, I have learned Linux is highly opinionated matter.




Cheers,


Lordadi.

[Kladaradatsj]

I use both of them, and both with Gnome (since I recently got disappointed with
KDE, after I had gotten (temporarily) tired of Gnome -- I sure do miss Kate though).

In my experience Ubuntu feels snappier, and it has (so far) been easier to find
howto's and support pages for Ubuntu than for OpenSUSE.

However, the one-click-install that OpenSUSE has, well, it just hit the
sweet spot for me! I also find that OpenSUSE's (KDEish) grouped start
menu and configuration center are handier than Ubuntu's.

[garyedwardjohnston]

There is no argument coming from me regarding gnome. In my opinion Ubuntu is tops.

The problem is that the best apps ARE KDE apps. This is a fact and there are very few exceptions (ie. GIMP).

I just wish that Kubuntu would pay as much attention to Kubuntu as it does Ubuntu. If they did I wouldn't be trying out openSUSE.

I understand opinions play a huge role but facts are facts. You can chose to use an inferior piece of software if you want but it is still inferior.

[Growbag]

....and it has (so far) been easier to find
howto's and support pages for Ubuntu than for OpenSUSE.

You know, I felt that when I first switched to openSUSE, and also the nearly dead forums worried me a bit too.

But I found that I didn't need anywhere near the help and tutorials with openSUSE that I did with Ubuntu, so it didn't matter.

And anything I did need I found through a simple google search.

Maybe partly because I learnt a lot of useful stuff in the years that I used Ubuntu exclusively, but mainly because I found that more things worked "out of the box" with openSUSE.

I didn't need to do as much customisation, or fiddle around to get things just right or to my taste.

[wxnker]

I'm really impressed by OpenSuse 11. If it wasn't for Mandriva 2008.1 it would probably become my main OS. Both are very complete distros. Both have great control centers with easy to use gui tools, which is one of the areas where they really stand out. Basically I had the exact same experience as Growbag, when switching from (K)ubuntu to (in my case) Mandriva, I didn't need the same amount of help anymore. It was easy to setup minor things from the gui. The CLI became an option.

Ubuntu clearly has the strongest community of all and the forum is GREAT. There are tons of guides and howto's. So the community is very newbie friendly, but when speaking of the OS itself, I find OpenSuse and Mandriva to be more mature. Still, Ubuntu is definitely a good choice for Gnome users. Clearly one of the best. But Kubuntu isn't really up there with the best for KDE users, imo.

Anyway, users should use what they like best. Preferences vary. It's one of the great things about Linux. There's something for everyone.To me Mandriva is clearly number 1 and it has been since version 2007.0, but using OS 11 has been a real pleasant surprise. From my point of view, I would recommend any of them anytime.

Greetings,
Wxnker

[regomodo]

Today i tried out openSuse. I have only heard good things about it and thought i'd check out a binary distro and see where they are.

Initially i liked it. It looked nice and the kde4 desktop worked well. However, the more i tried to use it the more i hated it. I won't get into the details (http://regomodoslinux.blogspot.com/2008/08/opensuse-11-not-good.html) as i've done that already.

[PmDematagoda]

I tried OpenSUSE 11 and I liked it a lot, especially with the way they handle KDE. But on reliability, I would really give Ubuntu or Fedora the trophy. A reason for saying that is because after I gave my PC for repairs, it came back with a new motherboard, I booted Ubuntu to see if it worked, it did with no problems at all, OpenSUSE on the other hand couldn't boot up at all because it was not accustomed to using UUIDs like Ubuntu does(or perhaps it may be a driver problem). Also, I don't like the YaST GUI for Apparmor AT ALL, it is very cryptic, gives you a headache and is not at all reliable when compared to the CLI commands.

So OpenSUSE is very nice and polished, but still not as great as Ubuntu IMO.

Btw, OpenSUSE 11's package management speed is very much faster than it used to be, I am glad that OpenSUSE is finally looking towards improving package management speeds:).

[lxuser2008-X]

I tried OpenSUSE 11 and I liked it a lot, especially with the way they handle KDE.....OpenSUSE on the other hand couldn't boot up at all because it was not accustomed to using UUIDs like Ubuntu does.
So OpenSUSE is very nice and polished, but still not as great as Ubuntu IMO.



FYI: I am currently using openSUSE 10.3 and can confirm that it supports UUIDs! I can not say what is the default choice because I modified my fstab mount points and menu.lst to use device name (e.g. /dev/sda8 ) method but UUID is an option in Yast--->System--->Partioner---->(chosen partition to edit)---->fstab options--->Device ID, Device Path, Device Name, Volume Label, UUID.

Yast Partitioner Fstab Options Help Info:
Mount in /etc/fstab By: Normally, a file system to mount is identified in /etc/fstab by the device name. This identification can be changed so the file system to mount is found by searching for a UUID or a volume label. Not all file systems can be mounted by UUID or a volume label. If an option is disabled, it is not possible.
Volume Label: The name entered in this field is used as the volume label. This normally only makes sense when you activate the option for mounting by volume label. A volume label cannot contain the / character or spaces.
Mount Read-Only: No writable access to the file system is possible. Default is false.
No access time: Access times are not updated when a file is read. Default is false.
Mountable by User: The file system may be mounted by an ordinary user. Default is false.
Not Mounted at System Start-up: The file system is not automatically mounted when the system starts. An entry in /etc/fstab is created and the file system is mounted with the appropriate options when the command mount <mount point> (<mount point> is the directory to which the file system is mounted) is given. Default is false.
Enable Quota Support: The file system is mounted with user quotas enabled. Default is false.
Data Journaling Mode: Specifies the journaling mode for file data. journal -- All data is committed into the journal prior to being written into the main file system. Highest performance impact.
ordered -- All data is forced directly out to the main file system prior to its metadata being committed to the journal. Medium performance impact.
writeback -- Data ordering is not preserved. No performanc impact.
Access Control Lists (ACL): Enable access control lists on the file system.
Extended User Attributes: Allow extended user attributes on the file system.
Arbitrary Option Value: In this field, type any legal mount option allowed in the fourth field of /etc/fstab. Multiple options are separated by commas.

[PmDematagoda]

FYI: I am currently using openSUSE 10.3 and can confirm that it supports UUIDs!

I didn't say that OpenSUSE didn't support UUIDs, I said that OpenSUSE isn't accustomed to using UUIDs like Ubuntu is. And I think OpenSUSE uses a /dev/disk/by-id/ID path by default.

[zipperback]

I use Ubuntu Hardy on my laptop because it works excellent with my hardware.
Everything works and required very little to get it up and running like I wanted it to be.

As far as distributions go, Ubuntu is an excellent choice and works for my business and personal needs.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[Down8ve]

Take it from someone who has tried openSuse 11, and really really wanted to use KDE4.1 (available via one-click). There are so many small problems, not show-stoppers, mind you, but small annoyances that I had to look elsewhere.

The annoyances:
1. Samba set-up for home Windows network sharing
2. Samba set-up to print to Windows shared printer
3. Some of my favorite apps not ready yet, but are available for 10.3 KDE3.5
4. Occasional unexplained crashes
5. The FONTS.. OUCH (kde3.5.x version is far better, but not perfect)
6. Ease of setting up multiple drives with correct permissions (sans text editor)
7. Yast has multiple ways to do the same things, makes ADD folks like me pretty confused.

Where did I go?
Klikit 0.1.9rc2. Yeah, old stuff, but wow, does it ever work well. Look for a new release candidate soon. I have hopped around forever looking for the right desktop, and this has the convenience of (k)ubuntu without the problems. Great forum too.

PCLinux 2007.1 was a close second, but Klikit has the edge in fonts and software selection. These are the only two distros I recommend now, as they are very responsive, avoid excessive bling and the developers pursue craftsmanship instead of the latest shiny objects.

[Growbag]

It sounds like most people are trying/installing the KDE4 liveCD.

This is a shame because KDE4 is rubbish!

It was a bad decision to release liveCD with that as it's desktop.

Most people don't want to download 4 gigs just to try a distro, so they go for the liveCD, and the only liveCD comes with KDE4.

Also it should have been more clearly announced (on the DVD) that KDE4 is BETA software, and is NOT ready to be used as an everyday desktop!

So please if you are going to try openSUSE, choose KDE3 (on the DVD), or once you have installed from the liveCD, use Yast -> Software management in "Patterns" mode, and install KDE3 before making a final judgement.

[Vorian Grey]

I downloaded the KDE Four LiveCD and it was a much difference experience for me that the regular openSuse 11. I like it a lot. It is the first time I have really sit down and tried 4.1. It's not there yet but I can see the potential.

It's a bit harder for me to configure because I don't know my way around in it yet. So far I like it better than Kubuntu.

And Koffice is coming around nicely as well.

[sabinedoll]

I have been running UBUNTU on my laptop for a while now, and I have everything up and running. All hardware (with two of the drivers in "wine"), and all software are working, and I am using a lot of different applications. Also, whenever there was a hurdle , I had no problem to locate a solution on the internet.
This made me brave and I tried OPENSUSE on another laptop, after all it appears to be all flashy on the surface and it is very much advertised.

I am now regretting the time I wasted on this very cumbersome and buggy operating sytem. I actually found it to be quite a nightmare, especially if you need this system to do more than the base-package provides. KDE4 is sooooo slow, it takes up to 5 minutes to get my wireless connection running (in UBUNTU it is on right away!). When I tried out screen-resolutions because the default did not fit, I could not reverse it because the windows were not fully visible. A lot of things I could never get running, which are just fine in UBUNTU. The system crashed more often than the worst WINDOWS version. I actually also liked the GNOME desktop better in SUSE, even though it is crippled compared with GNOME in UBUNTU.
Installing packages is a pain, I had less problems in UBUNTU.

I am now at the point where I am uninstalling (=completely removing) SUSE.
I am now in the process of installing UBUNTU on the other laptop, too.
Thanks to all the people who developed UBUNTU, great work!

[Giggity]

I just gave up on OpenSUSE 11 today, since they don't have a way to get my Atheros 5212 card working. There is one way that they mention, but it requires network access to the repositories. Anyway, I go onto another computer, download the RPM package that is supposed to make it work, install it, complete a few other command-line functions then reboot and it still doesn't work.

Wireless capability "fresh out of the box" is crucial if you ask me, since I don't have a convenient wired connection unless I drag my PC into the living room and set it up on the coffee table (which the rest of the family would just love!), or buy 100 feet of CAT-5 and roll it down the hall, which has the same problem. After the wireless networking is set up, then anything else would be relatively easy to fix since it would at least have access to the net!

Ubuntu has provided instant connectivity through Edgy I think, maybe Feisty (well over a year ago in any regard), and even before that getting it set up wasn't all that hard.

After my troubles with OpenSUSE, I've come to compare it to a really pretty girl who dresses well and has a great figure, but is dumb as a sack of bricks. Ubuntu didn't look at pretty at first, but it got the job done, and it's evolved into a distro that is at least as good looking or better. OpenSUSE is still pretty, but her friends love her for her body, not her mind... Linux for the whipped.

[RedDwarf]

Ubuntu has provided instant connectivity through Edgy I think, maybe Feisty (well over a year ago in any regard), and even before that getting it set up wasn't all that hard.

After my troubles with OpenSUSE, I've come to compare it to a really pretty girl who dresses well and has a great figure, but is dumb as a sack of bricks. Ubuntu didn't look at pretty at first, but it got the job done, and it's evolved into a distro that is at least as good looking or better. OpenSUSE is still pretty, but her friends love her for her body, not her mind... Linux for the whipped.
It has been said a lot of times: openSUSE does NOT support closed source drivers. If your wireless card needs closed source drivers it will not work by default in openSUSE... it's really simple. Novell has an agreement with Microsoft, but his Linux distributions have some respect for free software...
Everybody could do like Ubuntu, but then news like this one (http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for) would be less frequent.

So, openSUSE is a pretty girl. But isn't dumb, she just has moral principles. http://en.opensuse.org/Kernel_and_proprietary_drivers

[Giggity]

It has been said a lot of times: openSUSE does NOT support closed source drivers. If your wireless card needs closed source drivers it will not work by default in openSUSE... it's really simple. Novell has an agreement with Microsoft, but his Linux distributions have some respect for free software...
Everybody could do like Ubuntu, but then news like this one (http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for) would be less frequent.

So, openSUSE is a pretty girl. But isn't dumb, she just has moral principles. http://en.opensuse.org/Kernel_and_proprietary_drivers
I realized what was wrong with what I said a while after I posted the comment. Point taken, and apologies to anyone who might have been offended.

[L815]

It has been said a lot of times: openSUSE does NOT support closed source drivers. If your wireless card needs closed source drivers it will not work by default in openSUSE... it's really simple. Novell has an agreement with Microsoft, but his Linux distributions have some respect for free software...
Everybody could do like Ubuntu, but then news like this one (http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for) would be less frequent.

So, openSUSE is a pretty girl. But isn't dumb, she just has moral principles. http://en.opensuse.org/Kernel_and_proprietary_drivers

Then, I don't understand why my wireless works out of the box in OpenSuSE but not with Debian?
What does Micro$oft have to do with wireless drivers? They are either released by the hardware manufacturer or repackaged by the OEM seller...?

[Eddie Wilson]

I have Ubuntu 8.04.1 and OpenSUSE 11 installed. Both have the Gnome desktop manager. Suse is a very good distribution but things seem to come harder with Suse. I really like the Suse setup with the menus and the forums seem to be good. Now as for Ubuntu, I've used it for years and I really like the layout and performance. Things come easy for me in Ubuntu. To be fair that may be because I've been using it for so long. I've never had any of the problems that people seem to have with Ubuntu or with Suse. After using both for some time I still prefer Ubuntu. Also on a side note Gnome seems to have a lot more professional qualities then Kde does. Its a lot smoother with fewer bugs. But thats just my opinion at this time. OpenSUSE with Gnome is a distro that I would consider using if I wasn't using Ubuntu.

Kudos to both distributions.

[RedDwarf]

Then, I don't understand why my wireless works out of the box in OpenSuSE but not with Debian?
Some possibilities:
a) openSUSE has a newer kernel.
b) Debian doesn't packages closed source firmwares while openSUSE includes them in the "non-oss" repository.
c) ...

[wyliecoyoteuk]

Been using Suse with KDE on my main home box for years now.

Lately use Ubuntu various flavours, mainly MythBuntu on media units.
Ubuntu server on our FTP box.

Like KDE, and XFCE, Gnome feels like wearing gloves to type.

(and yes, I have used all of them) I used to like Mandrake, until it became Mandriva.

I also like DSL and Puppy, have played with Mepis and others.

I keep coming back to Suse (on 11.0 now).

I also like Mac OS :) but each to his own, I use different distros for different jobs.

[zoomy942]

having gone from ubuntu to opensuse - i have to say - if you have a tablet pc, you have got to use opensuse. yeah, you can get it to work in ubuntu, but it takes hours of work. in opensuse, i just went into the desktop management and it worked. clicked a button and it turned on. that was it.

i LOVE it

[L815]

Some possibilities:
a) openSUSE has a newer kernel.
b) Debian doesn't packages closed source firmwares while openSUSE includes them in the "non-oss" repository.
c) ...

Probably the newer kernel.

Anyway, I installed 11 with kde4 and finally got it updated to kde 4.1.x developer after the servers were going so slow this morning.

I have to say I'm enjoying it very much, although had a small problem with the latest intel video driver but just reverted back to the previous version and worked better.

Kde4 feels so much faster than GTK (gnome apps in general). Maybe it's suses tweaking or just the new kde4, either way, awesome!

[david_lynch]

I can't decide between suse and ubuntu. At work I have an ubuntu hardy desktop and suse (sles) servers. At home I have a suse 11 desktop and ubuntu hardy servers. Each one has certain strengths, and I like both.

I tend to use gnome in ubuntu and kde in suse, as the 2 desktop environments are IMHO at their best in those 2 environments, respectively. I didn't care much for kubuntu, and my experiences with gnome in suse have not been good. But kde in suse is smooth, and gnome in ubuntu is the way it ought to be as well.

Am I schizophrenic or what?

[Growbag]

No david_lynch, I wouldn't say schizophrenic, just using the most appropriate tool for the job (from your point of view).

I do the exact same thing, my server runs Ubuntu 7.10, and my workstation uses openSUSE 11.

I wanted to switch my server to suse11, but it was extremely difficult, I found that suse don't put any help or examples in their default config files, which is unhelpful to say the least. And the way they handle apache is a little odd too.

It's also a lot more cumbersome, and harder to setup than Ubuntu in that respect.

But the main problem is that YAST seems to override any settings I place in config files, especially the firewall which seems to have a mind all of it's own!

I HAD to run the GUI Yast network and firewall tool in order to get forwarding working properly, whereas I can simply edit /etc/sysconfig under Ubuntu.

Not too good if you run a headless non-GUI server.

I guess it's just because I'm not familiar with how suse handles things that makes Ubuntu seem so simple, the suse init process seems very complex and confusing.

[punkybouy]

I am writing this on a newly installed Ubuntu 8.04 64 bit machine. Up until yesterday it had been a 30 day old 64 bit Open Suse 11.0 PC but special effects died on it earlier last week and in an effort to fix it I did a 1 click install of Compiz hoping it would fix it. Instead it became a 1 click unbootable hard drive so with 3 other Ubuntu 8.04 PC's running 32 bit flawlessly I decided since I had to do a re-install I might as well use what works.
I liked open SUSE. I think graphics are handled better and start up and shutdown went without a hitch. I was using GNOME. I felt Ubuntu offers more customization right down to color of the window borders (seemed not possible in SUSE). As for the kernel level I can't see much difference and perhaps the "older" one in Ubuntu is more stable.

[some-guy]

No david_lynch, I wouldn't say schizophrenic, just using the most appropriate tool for the job (from your point of view).

I do the exact same thing, my server runs Ubuntu 7.10, and my workstation uses openSUSE 11.

I wanted to switch my server to suse11, but it was extremely difficult, I found that suse don't put any help or examples in their default config files, which is unhelpful to say the least. And the way they handle apache is a little odd too.

It's also a lot more cumbersome, and harder to setup than Ubuntu in that respect.

But the main problem is that YAST seems to override any settings I place in config files, especially the firewall which seems to have a mind all of it's own!

I HAD to run the GUI Yast network and firewall tool in order to get forwarding working properly, whereas I can simply edit /etc/sysconfig under Ubuntu.

Not too good if you run a headless non-GUI server.

I guess it's just because I'm not familiar with how suse handles things that makes Ubuntu seem so simple, the suse init process seems very complex and confusing.
It's so when you update the packages, the settings aren't overridden, take a look at 'yast sysconfig'

[Dojan5]

I tried kubuntu and liked KDE, but I've heard a lot of stuff about how kubuntu is KDE but totally mangled and screwed.

I have a lot of KDE apps crashing when using Kubuntu, so I wiped it out and replaced it with Ubuntu with GNOME.
I even think GNOME is easier to configure.