ThinkPad or Macbook Pro?

[50words]

Which is the better piece of hardware, without regard to price or OS? (And why do you think so?)

[zmjjmz]

Thinkpad.

[tamoneya]

I dont have a whole lot of experience with macbooks but I would be very impressed if they beat my thinkpad. I love my T61.

[50words]

I dont have a whole lot of experience with macbooks but I would be very impressed if they beat my thinkpad. I love my T61.

Beat? In what way?

[Quillz]

Both are really good, try them both out and pick the one you like. I personally prefer the MacBook Pro for a number of reasons, but my dad used to have a Thinkpad and it was both compact and yet very solid. Lenovo is doing the brand name justice, I'm glad to say.

[AlphaMack]

ThinkPad.

[bufsabre666]

macbook, good quality screen, wireless-n, bluetooth, good processor, pretty standard hardware

thinkpad's really vary depends on model its not as universal for linux as IBM used to be

macbooks only really have 3 models, macbook macbook pro 15" and macbook pro 17", everything else is just slight differences in ram cpu speed and hardrive space

[toupeiro]

You can't truly have this debate without factoring in at LEAST price.

The latest advancement to the MacBook Pro is multi-touch functionality similar to the iPhone or ipod touch. Quite Frankly? Thats cool and all, but it doesn't make it a more powerful laptop, or in my opinion even more usable... It means it has a touch interface that is likely only 100% functional in OSX right now. That, to me, doesn't justify the over $2800 price tag of it when I can get a T61p with the faster T9500 processor, the Nvidia Quadro-FX video card, and double the amount of ram for a thousand dollars less than the macbook with has lesser specs than the Lenovo...

[50words]

What about the LED screen available on the Macbook Pro, though? To me, a no-mercury screen, better battery life, and instant-on brightness are pretty awesome.

[toupeiro]

What about the LED screen available on the Macbook Pro, though? To me, a no-mercury screen, better battery life, and instant-on brightness are pretty awesome.

I'm not convinced the battery life is better at all than a T61p battery. When it comes to the screen, again you have to factor in price. Is that nice new screen thats available for an extra $100 dollars on the configurator worth the $1,100 difference compared to the lenovo which has a faster processor, a very nice looking screen, a much beefier video card, and double the amount of system memory?

To me? It is not...

Me personally, I run an HP 8710w and it blows the doors off both of them IMO. But For the sake of this debate, I have to lean towards the lenovo.

[LaRoza]

Thinkpad. More open. You can easily add hardware and drives and ram.

If you want OS X, obviously go for the Mac, but for everything else, get the Thinkpad.

[tuebinger]

ThinkPad. Definitely. Because it's more open.

[bashveank]

Macbook pro is sexy, pretty durable, has multitouch, has an LED backlit screen. The Thinkpad has the most amazing keyboard ever though, and will probably work better with Linux.

[50words]

What do you mean, "more open?" They both use pretty much the same hardware. How is one more open than the other?

[toupeiro]

What do you mean, "more open?" They both use pretty much the same hardware. How is one more open than the other?

Well for one, Lenovo offers their software suite of tools and Thinkvantage and modem drivers written specifically for linux. They offer pre-configurations of linux for sale, and they release specifics back to linux kernel developers of their models. The day Mac does this will be the same day Microsoft goes Open Source. We can't even get Mac to release iTunes on linux, when they already compile it for OSX which is essentially BSD... It's not in Apples agenda to play well with others or give anyone else control over their products.

[LaRoza]

What do you mean, "more open?" They both use pretty much the same hardware. How is one more open than the other?

I am not familiar with MacBooks, but I hear they aren't easy to take apart or upgrade. The Thinkpad is easy to upgrade. Need a new drive? Put it in. need a card? Put it in. Need a bigger hardisk? It is one screw away. RAM? A cinch also.

Also, there is the software openess also.

[Quillz]

Both the MacBook and MacBook Pro allow for easy access to RAM, so you can add more. The MacBook also allows for easy access to the hard drive so that you can replace it or add a larger capacity drive. On the Pro, however, you do have to do a bit of work to get to the hard drive, but it's still user replaceable.

[LaRoza]

Both the MacBook and MacBook Pro allow for easy access to RAM, so you can add more. The MacBook also allows for easy access to the hard drive so that you can replace it or add a larger capacity drive. On the Pro, however, you do have to do a bit of work to get to the hard drive, but it's still user replaceable.

What about the DVD/whatever drive? It is modular like the Thinkpad?

As I said before, the only reason to get a MacBook is for OS X. The price, hardware, and restrictions on it aren't worth it otherwise.

[ladr0n]

I've seen OS X run on a thinkpad, too. :)

[LaRoza]

I've seen OS X run on a thinkpad, too. :)

Not on this forum. Such discussions are agains the CoC. If anyone wants to do thing like that, don't put it on this forum.

(And on that note, what is the point of a Mac then?)

That being said...I think Apple is a little weird for not allowing it to be installed elsewhere, even if they didn't offer support.

[bufsabre666]

Not on this forum. Such discussions are agains the CoC. If anyone wants to do thing like that, don't put it on this forum.

(And on that note, what is the point of a Mac then?)

That being said...I think Apple is a little weird for not allowing it to be installed elsewhere, even if they didn't offer support.

its a certain company, im not ganna say which one, is making a usb dongle that simulates the macs weird bios, its completely illegal and a bad idea any ways, if someone is will to use os x they should be willing to try linux, i just think the macbook is better hardware, its rock solid top notch hardware, id still run ubuntu or opensuse, i despise os x, and not for the its not open reasoning, i think its just crap

[LaRoza]

i just think the macbook is better hardware, its rock solid top notch hardware, id still run ubuntu or opensuse

The Macs have lower specs and almost twice the price of the least expensive Thinkpad.

In addition, Thinkpads are consistantly rated higher in reliability.

[bufsabre666]

The Macs have lower specs and almost twice the price of the least expensive Thinkpad.

In addition, Thinkpads are consistantly rated higher in reliability.

lower specs dont mean anything, theres cheap hardware with high specs (read msi's ati cards) that are complete crap, most of the reliability problems for mac are OS related, you know, the one that just works

i should also add that i dont own a macbook but i am a person who maintains one for a family member, i do however own an t20 thinkpad and its rock sold, both are really good but the macbook feels more solid and has survived alot of things that the thinkpad prolly wouldnt

[Icehuck]

In addition, Thinkpads are consistantly rated higher in reliability.

I have 250 Thinkpads sitting in a closet that say otherwise.

[LaRoza]

lower specs dont mean anything, theres cheap hardware with high specs (read msi's ati cards) that are complete crap, most of the reliability problems for mac are OS related, you know, the one that just works

I have heard many accounts of Apple's hardware quality issues. I think that Apple's hardware is a little overrated, and possibly lower quality in many cases.

[LaRoza]

I have 250 Thinkpads sitting in a closet that say otherwise.

Heist?

I said "consistantly", not that they all were rated higher.

[PmDematagoda]

I've also heard that Macbooks aren't that hardy as ThinkPads are, in anycase I would go for the ThinkPad since looking at the specs the Macbook provides along with the price, it just isn't worth it.

[LaRoza]

For those pushing for a MacBook, is it because you are an owner of similiar products or you think it is in the OP's best interest?

[bufsabre666]

For those pushing for a MacBook, is it because you are an owner of similiar products or you think it is in the OP's best interest?

well no, i feel a nice hp pavillion would be in the op's best interest, but of those options macs have pretty much standard hardware and easy to trouble shoot linux problems for, but hp has had the best linux expierences for me

[Icehuck]

Heist?

I said "consistantly", not that they all were rated higher.

Use them in a corporate enviroment. We have just as many failures from Thinkpads as we have with Latitudes. Which is why our purchasing department can't decide which manufacturer to negotiate contracts with.

[LaRoza]

Use them in a corporate enviroment. We have just as many failures from Thinkpads as we have with Latitudes. Which is why our purchasing department can't decide which manufacturer to negotiate contracts with.

That is odd.

Thinkpads have been known to last many years of use with no problems. I am slightly curious as too what is causing this slaughter of Thinkpads...

[PmDematagoda]

well no, i feel a nice hp pavillion would be in the op's best interest, but of those options macs have pretty much standard hardware and easy to trouble shoot linux problems for, but hp has had the best linux expierences for me

HPs are rather nice as well, and they do seem to be rather cheap and Linux-friendly, but in terms of hardiness and reliability(not always if you are lucky) they are not as good as ThinkPads and my own Compaq is made of a kind of plastic that looks like it can break very easily.

[bufsabre666]

HPs are rather nice as well, and they do seem to be rather cheap and Linux-friendly, but in terms of hardiness and reliability(not always if you are lucky) they are not as good as ThinkPads and my own Compaq is made of a kind of plastic that looks like it can break very easily.

well compaqs are the lower end ones, but my old hp and the newer hps ive played with at best buy and circuit city are very very solid, im acctually ganna be getting one in a couple of weeks when its time to put in my order, the model im prolly ganna get is comparible to a 1400 dollar macbook and it only costs 950 with tax and shipping ((none are carried in the local store so i have to order out))

[zachtib]

I'm a diehard Thinkpad fan, and I love my T61p.

That said, it really boils down to what OS you want. If you want to run Linux, go for a Thinkpad, for OS X, MacBook Pro.

They're both solid machines, and there are a few elements of the MBP that I wish my Thinkpad had (backlit keyboard, slot-loading DVD)

Also, if you want a Thinkpad, I'd jump on one soon, they're switching the T series over to ATI graphics soon. Of course, if you want integrated graphics, it's not a big deal.

[LaRoza]

They're both solid machines, and there are a few elements of the MBP that I wish my Thinkpad had (backlit keyboard, slot-loading DVD)


You have a light for the keyboard on the Thinkpad, at least, my R61i does. For the DVD's player, I think the modular design is great, especially for a laptop.

[zachtib]

You have a light for the keyboard on the Thinkpad, at least, my R61i does. For the DVD's player, I think the modular design is great, especially for a laptop.

right, and the thinklight is good, i just think the backlight keyboard is a bit sleaker. and yes, the modular ultrabay is great, I'd like to get a battery to throw in there

[mini_g]

I personally would buy a Thinkpad X series over any other laptop, if given the chance + monetary availability.

Why?

The Trackpoint is my main reason for going over to the Thinkpads. I also happen to like the portability of the X series.

My first initiation to the Thinkpad's was when my father brought home an ultra-old one (33Mhz, Monochrome Screen, etc.) ~5-6 years ago and allowed my siblings and I to use it. There was only a Trackpoint, and similarly aged Toshiba lappy that I had bought ~1/2 year previous for $25us had a Trackpoint ripoff. So I never really had consistent access to a synaptic pad until I bought my Acer 3050 (used and so as to save it from a horrible torture from Vista + NIS). I don't like the touchpads cause one of my thumbs tend to drag across it whenever I really don't need it to happen.

My own personal fav is the X61s. Up to ~10.5 hours of battery life, no synaptic pad, etc. Screen estate does not bother me. Alas, it's too much for my current budget. (~$1,461.50us :() (On the plus side, I can buy an EeePC with the savings from the current pricing. :mrgreen: )

[NikoC]

Macbook Pro of course... why? Don't think rationally on this one, follow your heart and your emotions... Mac just looks great :lolflag:

[wenuswilson]

Thinkpad.

1. Beacuase StoneCold said so.
2. It's beautiful.
3. It's a little cheaper.
4. I . B . M


But in all seriousness. It's whatever your comfortable with...

I have a personal vendetta against Mac/Apple. ...not sure why.

[toupeiro]

I have 250 Thinkpads sitting in a closet that say otherwise.

The company I work for has several thousand in deployment worldwide that firmly back LaRoza's claim. If you have 250 sitting in a closet, its probably lifecycle... You wouldn't see 250 macbooks in a closet because precious few companies would ever make a business decision to purchase and deploy that many... Not to mention, MAC has never been a very good peer in a domain structured network environment.

As to the total crap hardware comment.. I'd hardly call 1920x1280 resolution, a 512MB quadro-FX 1600M video card and SAS options total crap hardware.... I'd still be using a thinkpad today if I didn't need the memory capacity and screen of the HP 8710W (8GB system ram in a laptop)

When I worked for Shell Oil, they were big latitude pushers. I've seen many more dead Latitudes than Thinkpads over the years. Latitudes of that time had tremendous overheating problems. They wouldn't shutdown, but they would become horridly slow or freeze. I've personally hated Dell ever since I had to gimp a poweredge 2650 years back to make it only show 64 meg of ram in order to properly install Windows Terminal Server 4, whereas I never had to do something so ridiculous on Proliant hardware (Compaq/HP).

I'm not saying there haven't been bad batches of thinkpads. That occasionally happens as with any hardware manufacturer. I'm saying that in the last 8 years, I've seen personally, and heard of through multiple internationally sized companies lifecycle deployments, way fewer failures overall with thinkpads than any other laptop model.

[JimmyJazz]

Get the Thinkpad.
Its a classic, extremely durable and you can even get one pre-installed with Linux (SUSE).

Also you can get more power for half the price, that is unless having a glowing apple on the back of your laptop is important.

[artrbinfo]

No doubt take macbook pro!

Here is just some reasons:

Higher specs
OSX
Aluminum case
Superb LCD
It's a mac

Non of those Lenovo can send close to apple mac, I have used Mac Pro, iMac, Macbook Pro - and wouldn't switch to Lenovo what so ever!

[50words]

I'll level with you, here on page five.

The OS is not particularly important to me. I currently am Ubuntu-only, and my work desktop will remain Ubuntu-only. I use Unison to sync my files and OpenSSH to connect the machines, and Macs have both. I will continue to use free software like OOo, Firefox, and Thunderbird on any computer I use.

I do a lot of presentations, enough that the Apple Remote, better hardware compatibility than Linux (read: projectors), and maybe Keynote would all be nice to have.

I also need to be able to create original video content for my blogs, which is a real hassle on Linux. No, make that near-impossible. I have had no luck rendering a video project with either PiTiVi or Kino. Fortunately, I have Windows Movie Maker available in VirtualBox WinXP. But WMM is a pain to work with, and I would rather try out iMovie.

[geoken]

But WMM is a pain to work with, and I would rather try out iMovie.

WMM and iMovie are essentially clones of each other. Their workflow and capabilities are identical.

Basically, drag clip from library to storyboard. Tweak clip if needed (they both have pretty much the same effects [windows actually has more effects]). Drag transition effect from transition library (again, they both have the same transitions with windows having a few more). Remove or add sound. Publish.

I realize Apple commercials would have you believe otherwise, but I've spent significant amount of time in both iMovie (not the crippled '08 version) and movie maker on Vista.

BTW, Ubuntu through LIRC can actually make better use of the Apple remote than OSX can.

You obviously want OSX so just go with the Apple. Your excuses for why you need it are really far stretched. For example, projector support? Projectors accept a standard VGA or DVI cable and act as secondary monitors. As long as the computer has some kind of DVI out then it has 'projector support'. You don't need to justify it. If your curious and think you may like the OS than that's reason enough to try it. You'll probably regret it if you hold off.

Having used OSX, Windows and Linux, I have no interest in OSX so my personal choice would be a thinkpad. A thinkpad is superior in both specs and hardware quality. Anyone still claiming Apple's hardware superiority is either blind or willfully ignoring the numerous reports adressing everything from shotty build quality to low end hardrive sourcing.

[MONODA]

I would say thinkpad, I have one which is 7 years old and is running great. The new ones rock (spec. the X3000 and X series). They also work great with linux. NOTE: i dont have any experience with macbook pros but I know many people complaining about their's getting to really high temps and parts getting old and breaking when the laptop is relatively new. I would go for a thinkpad b/c of price and quality and no lock in and more USB etc. ports.

[50words]

You obviously want OSX so just go with the Apple.

Not necessarily. I am considering switching to Apple, so I am considering how an Apple would differ from the ThinkPad I already have. That was good information.

Regardless what you say about projector support, however, I have had a lot of problems with my ThinkPad, although I attribute this mostly to my ATI graphics card. I think Intel integrated graphics might solve some of those problems.

The video editing thing is a problem, though. I cannot get the available video editors to work in Ubuntu, even for simple projects. This is the main reason I would consider switching to OSX. I will not consider switching to Windows.

[MONODA]

i should also add that i dont own a macbook but i am a person who maintains one for a family member, i do however own an t20 thinkpad and its rock sold, both are really good but the macbook feels more solid and has survived alot of things that the thinkpad prolly wouldnt
have you seen the new thinkpads or read the interview with a guy who ran over a thinkpad with a trick but it still worked?

[Dixon Bainbridge]

I am not familiar with MacBooks, but I hear they aren't easy to take apart or upgrade. The Thinkpad is easy to upgrade. Need a new drive? Put it in. need a card? Put it in. Need a bigger hardisk? It is one screw away. RAM? A cinch also.

Also, there is the software openess also.

I've just replaced the RAM and HDD in my macbook and it was easy.


AS for my choice, as a user of a thinkpad and macbook, I'd go for thinkpad for value and build and macbook if you want to look like a media idiot in cafe's :)


Lets be honest, Macbooks are just intel based PC's that you pay a premium for in order to get the shiny plastic apple logo. Thats it really.

[artrbinfo]

If you will use just Ubuntu, then there is no need for Appleand even to Lenovo - you can go with asus, acer or any other PC brand. Apple is not just hardware and software - it's life philosophy, and if you won't use OS X then you will feel just 1/2 of apple spirit. And if you are using Ubuntu only, then go better with asus, dell, toshiba instead of Lenovo. Lenovo is 90's looking notebooks with average specs.
So here is what I would suggest: ( I have used apple, IBM, Asus, Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Sony and HP)

If you want to explore brand new feel and philosophy to computer take Apple Macbook Pro
If you want to get usual notebook, with good specs take Sony, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, HP, Acer.

Remember Lenovo is regular average notebook, with average design and average specs...

[Dixon Bainbridge]

Apple is not just hardware and software - it's life philosophy, and if you won't use OS X then you will feel just 1/2 of apple spirit


Really? I just thought it was overpriced hyperbole peddled out by a load of Californian media gonks :)

[artrbinfo]

Really? I just thought it was overpriced hyperbole peddled out by a load of Californian media gonks :)

Clearly I can see that you haven't use Apple computers. There is just three reasons why someone would talk like that:
1. Haven't worked with apple macs.
2. Can't afford and is envious.
3. Have no clue about design and style.

[Dixon Bainbridge]

Clearly I can see that you haven't use Apple computers. There is just three reasons why someone would to talk like that:
1. Haven't worked with apple macs.
2. Can't afford and is envious.
3. Have no clue about design and style.

1. I'm typing this on a macbook
2. I'm loaded
3. I think macs look like tupperware. Discuss.

Sorry, dont understand fanboi-ism on any scale. A computer is a tool, nothing more. No tool warrants religious fervour and devotion.

[artrbinfo]

No it's not religion, but have you used Windows XP or Vista? I did and when I switched to OSX and mac hardware, there was truly WOW effect.
About design, it's taste question, but for sure macs is almost only ones who makes aluminium notebooks. Design is simple - but all simple is genius.
P.S.
If you would be "Loaded" you would be using Macbook Pro or Mac Pro instead of Macbook...

[Dixon Bainbridge]

No it's not religion, but have you used Windows XP or Vista? I did and when I switched to OSX and mac hardware, there was truly WOW effect.
About design, it's taste question, but for sure macs is almost only ones who makes aluminium notebooks. Design is simple - but all simple is genius.
P.S.
If you would be "Loaded" you would be using Macbook Pro or Mac Pro instead of Macbook...

I dont like macbook pro's. Laptops are not good for heavy duty pro use, desktops are far better. I bought a macbook for mobile photographic processing in lightroom, so i needed something small and compact with a good keyboard and screen, and nikon full colour metering support.

Don't make presumptions about people. You'll always be wrong.

[cookieofdoom]

I've heard great things about both. Mac's probably aren't as hard to destroy, but they still have great hardware. You'll get better Linux computability out of a Thinkpad, probably. I went for the Thinkpad because I don't really need Mac OS or its software, and I like the little eraser mouse thing on the Thinkpads. That and the $300 price difference helped point me in Lenovo's general direction.

If it weren't for Ubuntu I'd have definitely gotten the Macbook.

[toupeiro]

Clearly I can see that you haven't use Apple computers. There is just three reasons why someone would talk like that:
1. Haven't worked with apple macs.
2. Can't afford and is envious.
3. Have no clue about design and style.

wow...

Ok, lets talk about the history of Macs design and style. MAC is known throughout their life for sacrificing performance and/or stability for looks. Remember the iMAC? Yes, lets put a CRT flyback directly over a mainboard, run the hottest PPC processor on the market with little ventilation and absolutely no internal fans and make it Tangerine Orange.. How quiet and pretty! \\:D/

I've used apple computers, and I am sorry, they are grossly overhyped. Even moreso now that they are just shiny white or aluminum intel boxes...

Envious because I can't afford one? Sorry, but that is the lamest remark I've ever seen on a board. I've had discussions about Cray and SGI supercomputers on this forum, and I sure as hell cannot afford those. I run an expensive laptop, the only difference is its ridiculously outdone the Macbook pro in every single component. My personal feeling is that most macbook pro owners have the concept that they've bought something better simply because they spent more. Care to run some benchmarks of your macbook pro against my 8710w? We can post them right here right now. Hell, I'll even grab a t61p from work and bring it down a few levels so its not so much of a slaughter.

The design and style that impresses me is internal. Aesthetics takes a long second place to internal design and functionality. Having a good pricepoint for that functionality is also important. Mac has notoriously missed that boat. I'm sorry, you can't continue to charge a PPC price when you are pushing dell quality hardware and expect anyone technically savvy to take you seriously.

[Zenze]

Thinkpad. I have the T61 and I love it.

With the thinkpad you have a lot more options with what you want to put in it than you do with the macbook. I also like it because it is very sturdy and can take a lot of wear and tear. Plus for the price you can get much better hardware in the thinkpad than you would be able to in the macbook.

However, if you where not planing to put another OS on it, I would recommend the macbook. While it would have less powerful hardware the OS X is far superior to windows. However, if you just going to use linux for everything obviously that doesn't matter.

[Dixon Bainbridge]

wow...

Ok, lets talk about the history of Macs design and style. MAC is known throughout their life for sacrificing performance and/or stability for looks. Remember the iMAC? Yes, lets put a CRT flyback directly over a mainboard, run the hottest PPC processor on the market with little ventilation and absolutely no internal fans and make it Tangerine Orange.. How quiet and pretty! \\:D/

I've used apple computers, and I am sorry, they are grossly overhyped. Even moreso now that they are just shiny white or aluminum intel boxes...

Envious because I can't afford one? Sorry, but that is the lamest remark I've ever seen on a board. I've had discussions about Cray and SGI supercomputers on this forum, and I sure as hell cannot afford those. I run an expensive laptop (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/321957-321957-64295-321838-3329741-3355679.html), the only difference is its ridiculously outdone the Macbook pro in every single component.

The design and style that impresses me is internal. Aesthetics takes a long second place to internal design and functionality. Having a good pricepoint for that functionality is also important. Mac has notoriously missed that boat. I'm sorry, you can't continue to charge a PPC price when you are pushing dell quality hardware and expect anyone technically savvy to take you seriously.

Spot on.

[artrbinfo]

wow...

Ok, lets talk about the history of Macs design and style. MAC is known throughout their life for sacrificing performance and/or stability for looks. Remember the iMAC? Yes, lets put a CRT flyback directly over a mainboard, run the hottest PPC processor on the market with little ventilation and absolutely no internal fans and make it Tangerine Orange.. How quiet and pretty! \\:D/

That is one big stupid argument. If we look in history PC had much more problems, like Penitum 4. History is history, and now iMac is more powerful then 80% of desktop PCs, and remember that firstly iMac was made for light jobs, but now with Core 2 Duo X9100 CPU, 4Gb RAM, 1Tb HDD, and downclocked 8800GT it's workstation class computer( maybe not for graphics). Still imacs don't have fun, but it's cold, so it's part of history.



I've used apple computers, and I am sorry, they are grossly overhyped. Even moreso now that they are just shiny white or aluminum intel boxes...


Intel is leading CPU manufacturer, so it's just a logic option. I'd like to know what exactly is glossy in Mac? PC + Vista is really glossy...



Envious because I can't afford one? Sorry, but that is the lamest remark I've ever seen on a board. I've had discussions about Cray and SGI supercomputers on this forum, and I sure as hell cannot afford those. I run an expensive laptop, the only difference is its ridiculously outdone the Macbook pro in every single component. My personal feeling is that most macbook pro owners have the concept that they've bought something better simply because they spent more. Care to run some benchmarks of your macbook pro against my 8710w? We can post them right here right now. Hell, I'll even grab a t61p from work and bring it down a few levels so its not so much of a slaughter.


That's true for 50% of those who don't like macs, others really don't like idea of it.
Yes we can do it. And let's do test with my Mac pro as well ok?



The design and style that impresses me is internal. Aesthetics takes a long second place to internal design and functionality. Having a good pricepoint for that functionality is also important. Mac has notoriously missed that boat. I'm sorry, you can't continue to charge a PPC price when you are pushing dell quality hardware and expect anyone technically savvy to take you seriously.

hmm, mac have top quality hardware...

[Alasdair]

hmm, mac have top quality hardware...
What makes you think that? They use the same cheap components dell and every other computer manufacturer uses. You are paying for OSX and aesthetics, not high quality hardware.

[artrbinfo]

I know from where they get hardware very well, so I'm 100% sure that all mac hardware is top class~!

[toupeiro]

That is one big stupid argument. If we look in history PC had much more problems, like Penitum 4. History is history, and now iMac is more powerful then 80% of desktop PCs, and remember that firstly iMac was made for light jobs, but now with Core 2 Duo X9100 CPU, 4Gb RAM, 1Tb HDD, and downclocked 8800GT it's workstation class computer( maybe not for graphics). Still imacs don't have fun, but it's cold, so it's part of history.



Intel is leading CPU manufacturer, so it's just a logic option. I'd like to know what exactly is glossy in Mac? PC + Vista is really glossy...



That's true for 50% of those who don't like macs, others really don't like idea of it.
Yes we can do it. And let's do test with my Mac pro as well ok?



hmm, mac have top quality hardware...

You seem to be missing the overall point.. I don't like macs, FOR VERY DETAILED AND GOOD REASONS. Never once have I given you absolutes in my responses as you have with "oh, you just don't like macs"

You can do the test with any mac you want boss.... 8-) I'll even let you name the test. You want video? Processor? IO? all of the above? I'll post my results a little later today. Pick the tool. I dont care if its on Linux or Windows. Obviously OSX is out for me for proprietary reasons...

[artrbinfo]

That makes my macs in little difficult situation, because OSX runs faster on macs, but it's not problem.
Let's do PerformanceTest 6.1 Download here! (http://www.passmark.com/download/pt_download.htm)
And let's to CPU, 3D and memory test! Is it ok 4 you?

[zachtib]

Superb LCD

I'll contest that point. The LCD is one reason that I didn't even consider a MBP. WXGA+ on a 15" display is pathetic. I was looking for at least WSXGA+, and the T61p offered me WUXGA.

[sryk]

thinkpad

[smbm]

Thinkpad

[koshatnik]

That makes my macs in little difficult situation, because OSX runs faster on macs, but it's not problem.
Let's do PerformanceTest 6.1 Download here! (http://www.passmark.com/download/pt_download.htm)
And let's to CPU, 3D and memory test! Is it ok 4 you?

I've benchmarked RAW batch processing 100 images on all three platforms and OS X consistently lags behind both linux and windows on older hardware platforms. OS X is a dog slow operating system. I recently added another 1gb of RAM to my macbook - I've yet to see a real performance boost. I won't be buying a mac again.

C'est la vie.

[LaRoza]

I know from where they get hardware very well, so I'm 100% sure that all mac hardware is top class~!

Quick google: http://lowendmac.com/musings/08mm/thousands-of-colors.html

[adi_8079]

Thinkpad T61p.

[LookTJ]

I would agree with LaRoza on this thread. :). But my opinion states ThinkPad is better because of the openness of the hardware.

[D-EJ915]

If you're going to use OS X get the macbook, if not get the Thinkpad; the single button for anything but OS X is downright retarded.

[biehlbuddy]

My x31 is the best $300 I ever spent

[toupeiro]

That makes my macs in little difficult situation, because OSX runs faster on macs, but it's not problem.
Let's do PerformanceTest 6.1 Download here! (http://www.passmark.com/download/pt_download.htm)
And let's to CPU, 3D and memory test! Is it ok 4 you?


OK, let the games begin. I guess I'll start:

I used the eval versions because this is all in fun and only part to prove Macs are overpriced/overhyped. As soon as I get my hands on a T61p, I will provide the same results, but if anyone else has one, please do not hesitate to share.

My test is on my current HP 8710w w. 4GB of RAM Quadro-FX 1600 and T7800 processor. It has a 17" WUXGA screen and displays at 1920x1200. Other standard features include DVD+/-RW (Blue-raw was optional on this one, the next one will have it.) and an HDMI 2.0 output, 802.11ABGN, Bluetooth 2.0, a Micro-USB, and 6 High-Speed USB ports were included. A PCMCIA SmartCard reader and a 6 in 1 media card reader were also included. In a few weeks, I'll be able to test the T9500 with 8GB. Because the tools you chose do not have linux versions, I am doing this on 64-bit Windows Vista Enterprise SP1. The cost of this laptop out of pocket is apx in the $1,800 price range +/- through a VAR, but I don't know the exact change numbers. You can no longer even get an 8710w with the 7800 processor direct from HP...

Lets start with the Windows_Benchmark screenshot. Averaged by the lowest possible score, this laptop rates a 5.0

The subsequent screenshots illustrate the various CPU 2d/3d and memory scores.

Your move, Ace. :cool: Lets see what your 2,800 - 3,000 dollar Macbook pro can do! For the price difference, you better blow me out of the water! ;-)

[zachtib]

As soon as I get my hands on a T61p, I will provide the same results, but if anyone else has one, please do not hesitate to share.

I've got one (see sig) and I'd be happy to provide numbers, but you'll have to point me to a Linux tool, as I won't tarnish my Thinkpad by putting Windows on it.

[geoken]

I know from where they get hardware very well, so I'm 100% sure that all mac hardware is top class~!

You mean like the Chinese Seagate factory which no other manufacturer sourced their HD's from?

http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/macosg_macbook_seagate_hard_drives_catastrophicall y_failing

[lancest]

I heard ASUS is making some of Apple's notebooks. They also manufacture for Sony. I run mostly ASUS stuff but would switch to IBM/Lenovo very quickly . I have a hard time accepting PC makers who don't make their own hardware.

[artrbinfo]

OK, let the games begin. I guess I'll start:

I used the eval versions because this is all in fun and only part to prove Macs are overpriced/overhyped. As soon as I get my hands on a T61p, I will provide the same results, but if anyone else has one, please do not hesitate to share.

My test is on my current HP 8710w w. 4GB of RAM Quadro-FX 1600 and T7800 processor. It has a 17" WUXGA screen and displays at 1920x1200. Other standard features include DVD+/-RW (Blue-raw was optional on this one, the next one will have it.) and an HDMI 2.0 output, 802.11ABGN, Bluetooth 2.0, a Micro-USB, and 6 High-Speed USB ports were included. A PCMCIA SmartCard reader and a 6 in 1 media card reader were also included. In a few weeks, I'll be able to test the T9500 with 8GB. Because the tools you chose do not have linux versions, I am doing this on 64-bit Windows Vista Enterprise SP1. The cost of this laptop out of pocket is apx in the $1,800 price range +/- through a VAR, but I don't know the exact change numbers. You can no longer even get an 8710w with the 7800 processor direct from HP...

Lets start with the Windows_Benchmark screenshot. Averaged by the lowest possible score, this laptop rates a 5.0

The subsequent screenshots illustrate the various CPU 2d/3d and memory scores.

Your move, Ace. :cool: Lets see what your 2,800 - 3,000 dollar Macbook pro can do! For the price difference, you better blow me out of the water! ;-)

Hi!
It's nice that you made test of this HP notebook, but it's price at your configuration is 3676$ (when customized to your specs), where did you find price $1800? I made exactly your specs in HP site and they gave me price 3676$, and compared to apple macbook pro for 2800$ it's not big wonder.
But I'll make the test...

[artrbinfo]

Sorry posted twice...

[artrbinfo]

Here is my Macbook Pro 2.6Ghz, 2Gb RAM and 8600GT CPU mark
As we can see it's more powerful then yours, but just in one parameter it's lower... Don't know why...
Tested with full version, but there is no performance difference. Tried both...

[hanzomon4]

Can't go wrong with the macbook pro, it's a joy to use...

[hessiess]

Mac: overpriced intel PC with a fancy OS thats a pain in the but to use...

though saying that, I would chose a mac over windows any day, Linux blows both out of the water.

[hanzomon4]

How is OS X a pain to use?

Has it ever dropped you to the cli because the gui wouldn't start?
Has playing music through itunes ever caused skype to not be able to access the sound card?
How often does it force you to reboot after waking up?
What about manually compiling drivers? Ever have to do that in OS X?

Not everyone's cup of tea, but hardly a pain to use. Especially considering what your average linux user has to put up with. That said as far as linux goes using it on a mac is pretty decent, everything can be made to work.

[hessiess]

How is OS X a pain to use?
3 words: one button mouse. holding ctrl all the time is a pain.


Has it ever dropped you to the cli because the gui wouldn't start?
I know how to use a CLI, so dosent bother me.

Has playing music through itunes ever caused skype to not be able to access the sound card?
I dont listen to music that often, or use PIM,s so this is a no isue.

How often does it force you to reboot after waking up?
never, but Ive never expirianced this in Ubuntu eather.

What about manually compiling drivers? Ever have to do that in OS X?
never had to do this on Linux and i have only ever used outher peoples mac's, so dont know.

[Erunno]

3 words: one button mouse. holding ctrl all the time is a pain.

I'm sure you are aware that you can easily turn on 2-finger tapping for emulating right-mouse clicks (as all Mac owners I know do). Otherwise one might get the mistaken impression that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[50words]

3 words: one button mouse. holding ctrl all the time is a pain.

I know how to use a CLI, so dosent bother me.

I dont listen to music that often, or use PIM,s so this is a no isue.

never, but Ive never expirianced this in Ubuntu eather.

never had to do this on Linux and i have only ever used outher peoples mac's, so dont know.

So Ubuntu is better because you don't need the things it does not do well? For those who do need the things Ubuntu does not do well, would you agree OSX is a better choice?

[bufsabre666]

How is OS X a pain to use?

Has it ever dropped you to the cli because the gui wouldn't start?
Has playing music through itunes ever caused skype to not be able to access the sound card?
How often does it force you to reboot after waking up?
What about manually compiling drivers? Ever have to do that in OS X?



1)it has done it but only when i write the xconf wrong, for most people they would never even need to look at the xconf, i just like to play with settings
2)nope, system->preferences->sound, change music and movies to auto detect,its a no problem them
3)never
4) ive never HAD to compile drivers, ive done it cause i wanted too, i like making myself more familiar with the command line
4a) mac comes on the computers so of course you dont need too unless its a desktop and you add a tv tuner or you add a mobile broadband connect card thats unsupported, if you buy a ubuntu prebuilt computer you wouldnt need to do that either


and remember the first page, i support macbook, i just dont like when people get facts wrong


So Ubuntu is better because you don't need the things it does not do well? For those who do need the things Ubuntu does not do well, would you agree OSX is a better choice?

possibly, but i think opensuse is a better choice, but dont listen to me im becoming more and more of a opensource zealot day by day

[artrbinfo]

I have heard some good thinks about opensuse 10.3, I tried to install it on VirtualBox to try out, bet it install crushed two times, so I guess it's not possible to install it with VirtualBox. But for now the best 4 me is Leopard 10.5.3

[bufsabre666]

I have heard some good thinks about opensuse 10.3, I tried to install it on VirtualBox to try out, bet it install crushed two times, so I guess it's not possible to install it with VirtualBox. But for now the best 4 me is Leopard 10.5.3

try 11, it just came out 2 days ago

[LaRoza]

try 11, it just came out 2 days ago

And 32 bit, because 64 bit won't work in VirtualBox.

[mj-barton]

My Thinkpad (T42) will be turning 4 this September. The titanium hinges are what initially attracted me this machine. The Thinkpad opens and closes the same as it did out of the box 3 years ago. I'd like to see a any laptop do that. Its rock solid. When the time comes for a new machine. I will be purchasing another Thinkpad.

All the hardware was linux supported out of the box!

[sp0nge]

MacBook AIR is sick! That is my next major purchase!

[-gabe-noob-]

What about the LED screen available on the Macbook Pro, though? To me, a no-mercury screen, better battery life, and instant-on brightness are pretty awesome.



yeah I LOVE my MB pro.

[hanzomon4]

1)it has done it but only when i write the xconf wrong, for most people they would never even need to look at the xconf, i just like to play with settings
2)nope, system->preferences->sound, change music and movies to auto detect,its a no problem them
3)never
4) ive never HAD to compile drivers, ive done it cause i wanted too, i like making myself more familiar with the command line
4a) mac comes on the computers so of course you dont need too unless its a desktop and you add a tv tuner or you add a mobile broadband connect card thats unsupported, if you buy a ubuntu prebuilt computer you wouldnt need to do that either


and remember the first page, i support macbook, i just dont like when people get facts wrong



possibly, but i think opensuse is a better choice, but dont listen to me im becoming more and more of a opensource zealot day by day

Facts wrong? I don't think so..

The forums are filled with people having these problems and howtos dedicated to giving guidance on how to fix these problems. I've had to compile drivers to get my wireless working and my touch pad. I've been dropped to the cli and more recently the awful recovery mode after installing the drivers, having them work, and then rebooting; starting the whole dance over again. Skype will not play nice unless you write an asound.conf. You could blame skype for not supporting PA but when folks around here actually think that PA is a ALSA replacement and we have god knows how many sound systems you can't really fault them. Now I'm not trying to slam ubuntu but these problems exist, so when linux users start beating their chest about how such and such OS is a pain compared to linux... I'm just left wondering, wtf??

[50words]

Word. I have had a fairly easy time with Linux, but we just bought my wife a Macbook today, and getting her up and running with that vs. getting my current ThinkPad up and running with Linux is like day and night.

No config files, no searching for answers, just quick and easy.

[artrbinfo]

try 11, it just came out 2 days ago
Hey thats a great news, Just started to download, and hopefully it will be running later today!
TNX

[artrbinfo]

Word. I have had a fairly easy time with Linux, but we just bought my wife a Macbook today, and getting her up and running with that vs. getting my current ThinkPad up and running with Linux is like day and night.

No config files, no searching for answers, just quick and easy.

That's what I'm talking about. MAC + OSX the most user friendly option!

[toupeiro]

Hi!
It's nice that you made test of this HP notebook, but it's price at your configuration is 3676$ (when customized to your specs), where did you find price $1800? I made exactly your specs in HP site and they gave me price 3676$, and compared to apple macbook pro for 2800$ it's not big wonder.
But I'll make the test...

Funny that you did this on HP's site when as I said, HP's configurator doesn't even have some of my options available anymore because I have an older 8710w and the lowest spec costs 2,299 and the only differences are the current low end 8710 has 2 GB of ram, but the processor is almost 3-4 models higher than mine... I'm sorry, but adding 2GB of ram does NOT make up the over $1,000 to justify your projections. (more like $120 per the configurator)... Finally, you didn't do near as extensive of a test on your system as you asked me to do... Why is that? They were your terms afterall... Is this simply the only point you marginally edged out over my aging upper-end laptop?

Either way, I do know that the laptop, with a port replicator that had DVI-D support and an Ogio bag didn't even come up to what the asking price is for the 17" Apple MacBook Pro of today because I did see the quote before it was purchased. Judging by your 1 CPU test, I feel pretty confident the HP, even my older one, is the better deal, no matter how white and shiny the apple looks. Still love to see the numbers of a t61p if anyone has had the time to run them. If I want aesthetics, I'll buy a painting, if I want art and aesthetics combined with technology, I'd still buy one of these (http://www.voodoopc.com/) before the MacBook Pro judging by the results, or lack thereof.

I think I'm done digressing :) If you couldn't tell, I choose the Thinkpad :P

[mips]

My Thinkpad (T42) will be turning 4 this September. The titanium hinges are what initially attracted me this machine. The Thinkpad opens and closes the same as it did out of the box 3 years ago. I'd like to see a any laptop do that. Its rock solid.

Thats not going to happen ;)

[hanzomon4]

Unless you need a ridiculous amount of power go macbook instead of macbook pro. They are pretty heavy if you walk alot. I have walk all over downtown chicago and the pro kills my freaking shoulder.

[cardinals_fan]

Thinkpads are the best. Period.

[LaRoza]

Thinkpads are the best. Period.

We agree on a lot of things (although you seem more passionate about wm choice...)

[XVII]

I read this thread up untill about page 6 when the flame war started. tl;dr.

From my experience, using Apple products is a lifestyle choice. If you buy a MacBook, you need to use other Apple products because they are all designed to sync automatically to your Time Capsule, beam music to your iPod, etc... When you use all Apple products everything just blends together very well. You just have to remember to buy every new thing Apple releases.

If however, you are not interested in shaping your technological life into whatever mold Apple has just released, then go with a ThinkPad and run Linux on it. Sure you might have more problems, but hey at least your not a fanboy and you'll have street credit.

Seriously, do whatever you want. I personally would buy a MacBook.

[artrbinfo]

Funny that you did this on HP's site when as I said, HP's configurator doesn't even have some of my options available anymore because I have an older 8710w and the lowest spec costs 2,299 and the only differences are the current low end 8710 has 2 GB of ram, but the processor is almost 3-4 models higher than mine... I'm sorry, but adding 2GB of ram does NOT make up the over $1,000 to justify your projections. (more like $120 per the configurator)... Finally, you didn't do near as extensive of a test on your system as you asked me to do... Why is that? They were your terms afterall... Is this simply the only point you marginally edged out over my aging upper-end laptop?

Either way, I do know that the laptop, with a port replicator that had DVI-D support and an Ogio bag didn't even come up to what the asking price is for the 17" Apple MacBook Pro of today because I did see the quote before it was purchased. Judging by your 1 CPU test, I feel pretty confident the HP, even my older one, is the better deal, no matter how white and shiny the apple looks. Still love to see the numbers of a t61p if anyone has had the time to run them. If I want aesthetics, I'll buy a painting, if I want art and aesthetics combined with technology, I'd still buy one of these (http://www.voodoopc.com/) before the MacBook Pro judging by the results, or lack thereof.

I think I'm done digressing :) If you couldn't tell, I choose the Thinkpad :P

:mrgreen: Stick with your HP & Lenovo...

[artrbinfo]

try 11, it just came out 2 days ago

And 32 bit, because 64 bit won't work in VirtualBox.

Just got OpenSuse installed it, but I don't feel it good, especially KDE 4. Gnome performance is normal, but I guess I'm to good friend with ubuntu :)

[bufsabre666]

Just got OpenSuse installed it, but I don't feel it good, especially KDE 4. Gnome performance is normal, but I guess I'm to good friend with ubuntu :)

use whatever youre comfertible with, i have ubuntu as the main os and for right now opensuse is in a virtual box, im getting a new laptop and i plan on installing opensuse on it, but for my desktop i have everything installed and configured how i like so im not changing it

[artrbinfo]

use whatever youre comfertible with, i have ubuntu as the main os and for right now opensuse is in a virtual box, im getting a new laptop and i plan on installing opensuse on it, but for my desktop i have everything installed and configured how i like so im not changing it
I don't get it what is the KDE 4 idea? Those interesting icons and settings, when mouse over. What do you like better - KDE 4 or Gnome 2.2?

[bufsabre666]

I don't get it what is the KDE 4 idea? Those interesting icons and settings, when mouse over. What do you like better - KDE 4 or Gnome 2.2?

on opensuse kde 3.5.9, i see lots of potential for kde4, qt4 libraries are amazingly fast but they need to get back to just making it simple, right not it seems cluttered, i do also install gnome though but kde3 as the default

my opensuse desktop:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/bufsabre666/snapshot1-2.png

[artrbinfo]

Very very nice :) I love this desktop, it's clear, stylish(dock and short menu on top). But in this KDE 4 I didn't like that icons is in same level as screenlets or widgets... I old KDE icons was fixed like in gnome and I guess with out those mouse over options.
P.S.
Are you developer as well? :)
P.S.S
How can I install both KDE and gnome, so I can switch them?

[bufsabre666]

Very very nice :) I love this desktop, it's clear, stylish(dock and short menu on top). But in this KDE 4 I didn't like that icons is in same level as screenlets or widgets... I old KDE icons was fixed like in gnome and I guess with out those mouse over options.
P.S.
Are you developer as well? :)
P.S.S
How can I install both KDE and gnome, so I can switch them?

you can go into yast and goto software management, and change the sorting option to paterns, right click on the DE you want to install and select install, theres also a good list of wm's under the x menu in patterns to give a try too, personally have them all installed cause im not where short on harddrive space.

im not a developer for kde or opensuse, i am a developer, i have a torrent project me and some friends are doing but we're still in prealpha

you can have as many as you like, like i said, i have them all, you just ctrl alt bckspace out and select a different one under under the session menu before logging back in, to change the default its differnt from ubuntu you have to go into yast and change the sys/config, just open it its under one of the menus and search the word session, if you want kde3 or 4 you need to make use to change it in the first location to kdm and kde3/4 in the second or youll still end up with the first one installed by default

edit: and actually my gnome ubuntu desktop isnt all that differnt, ill just post a link in interest of saving space cause i didnt realize how big that last one was
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/bufsabre666/Screenshot-13.png

[artrbinfo]

Thanks I'll try in out right now.
Hope to see your project beta soon :)
Found easier option, updated system from DVD, and now I'll try to see the cool side of KDE4!

[artrbinfo]

[Solved TNX]
Didn't work as expected...
Could you please give me guide how to change Opensuse 11 Gnome to KDE4? I'm suse noob :)
Thanks
[Solved TNX]

[toupeiro]

:mrgreen: Stick with your HP & Lenovo...

Done and done. 8)

[Dixon Bainbridge]

I read this thread up untill about page 6 when the flame war started. tl;dr.

From my experience, using Apple products is a lifestyle choice. If you buy a MacBook, you need to use other Apple products because they are all designed to sync automatically to your Time Capsule, beam music to your iPod, etc... When you use all Apple products everything just blends together very well. You just have to remember to buy every new thing Apple releases.

If however, you are not interested in shaping your technological life into whatever mold Apple has just released, then go with a ThinkPad and run Linux on it. Sure you might have more problems, but hey at least your not a fanboy and you'll have street credit.


:)

[macogw]

Thinkpad. My ex's MacBook Pro had a dead charger circuit in under a week. Great job on QA, Apple...

[MaddMatt]

I'm all for the MacbookPro. The thing is sleek, and it was incredibly well designed. It's like the proverbial "German Engineering" but from California.

Why I like the Macbook:

MagSafe power adapter: Never again will you break off the power adapter inside of your notebook. (Which I've done multiple times.)
Lid closures are also magnetic, so you'll never break one off, or snag it on something.
You can turn the laptop into a special disk mode, and connect it to another computer for use as an external harddrive. (You can essentially mirror your /home partition this way. Way cool.)
Screen is incredibly crisp, high definition.
It runs faster than my tower at home, with nearly the same specs.
The installation had fewer problems that I've ever had with Linux before
Finally, it feels good to buy a mac, and annoy all of those OS X people by putting Linux on it.


It was really easy to do, as I said, very few hiccups with the Ubuntu installation process, which has been rare to me with ANY distro. Currently only 2 annoyances - The keyboard isn't full, but is remedied by Pommed, which allows FN+backspace to equal the delete button, etc.

You can't right click yet, because as far as I know the trackpad support hasn't come along yet. I understand they are working on it, with support for the gestures too (the enlarge, rotate, etc.) So I use an external mouse.

Probably the most important thing for me:
Now that I have a Mac, I can run programs from all 3 major OSs. This is huge, because as a Geologist, many academic programs are written for OS X (dual boot), GIS and other programs for Windows (VMware server), and I still use Ubuntu because it's the best. So until everyone switches to open source equivalents, I've got the most versatile set up.

My $.10, just saying I'm really psyched about my MBP.

-M

[LaRoza]

My $.10, just saying I'm really psyched about my MBP.

-M

Sounds good, however, for a Linux user, Thinkpads were the first notebooks to officially support Linux and they still do so with great ease.

Thinkpads also have lesser price tags with higher specs. Of course, you can't run OS X on them, so if you want that, the MacBook is the obvious choice.

[50words]

Since I started this threat, we bought my wife a white Macbook.

On the video software side, while iMovie is indeed a lot nicer than Windows Movie Maker, I still had to spend $20 and wait while it converted my movie files to DV before I could edit them in iMovie. It looks like I will be doing basically the same thing in Ubuntu using ffmpeg, once I figure out how to use it.

My ThinkPad T43 has been out for service for a few days, so I have been using the Macbook for e-mail and syncing the iPod Touch that we got since my wife works for the teachers' union. (Annoyingly, nothing in Ubuntu supports the iPod Touch, even though it has been out for over 8 months.)

Anyway, now that I have my ThinkPad back, I am surprised to find that I really like the Macbook keyboard, and that, to me, it feels even better than the keyboard on my T43. I think it is the nice size of the keys, and that they have a bit more resistance for better "clickiness." (This could also be related to the fact that my keyboard is well-used, however, and hers is brand new.)

I did just order an Apple Remote to see whether I can use it with my ThinkPad, since someone else mentioned that it works really well. I have not seen any information online about doing this, however. If I can't use it, though, it will be useful with the Mac Mini we plan to use for a media computer in the living room (eventually with a Linux media server in the basement).

[LaRoza]

Anyway, now that I have my ThinkPad back, I am surprised to find that I really like the Macbook keyboard, and that, to me, it feels even better than the keyboard on my T43. I think it is the nice size of the keys, and that they have a bit more resistance for better "clickiness." (This could also be related to the fact that my keyboard is well-used, however, and hers is brand new.)

The keyboards of Thinkpads are one of its top features. The Mac must have a pretty good one (I dislike my iBook's keyboard, but it is old)



I did just order an Apple Remote to see whether I can use it with my ThinkPad, since someone else mentioned that it works really well. I have not seen any information online about doing this, however. If I can't use it, though, it will be useful with the Mac Mini we plan to use for a media computer in the living room (eventually with a Linux media server in the basement).

All personal loyalties for Thinkpads aside, good luck with all your new hardware.

[50words]

All personal loyalties for Thinkpads aside, good luck with all your new hardware.

Yeah, I am sticking with GNU/Linux and desktop PCs at work. The value is too good. But I need to find someone to maintain the system for me, and I am having trouble finding anyone local.

But at home, Apple offers easy configuration, multimedia options, and awesome backup. It will be easy to set everyone up to work with one system.

[tgalati4]

Avoid the 17" macbook pros. 3 screen failures in 3 years. They seem to flex at the lower 1/3 point which breaks the tiny electronic traces in the glass. $400 to $800 to repair. Get Applecare if you get a 17" or prepare to shell out for new screens every year.

The 15" mbp's are stiffer and don't suffer the flexing that the 17" ones do.

Macs are great if you can afford them.

$250 for a used T43P where everything works in Linux is nice.

I have an old 1 GHz G4 powerbook that still runs well, but Tiger has gained significant bloat with all of its updates, so it runs kind of slow. A 1 GHz PPC is about equivalent to a 2 GHz Pentium 4 speedwise. Used powerbooks are a good buy if you want to dabble with OS X without spending $3K.

Linux is definitely fiddly on PPC architecture. It runs well, but getting all of the hardware to run properly is painful.