[SOLVED] I want to convince my parents Ubuntu is better than windows

[Jordanwb]

Right now I'm making a backup of my parent's computer's hard drive. And I got to thinking: What would I need to say to convince them that Ubuntu is better than Windows? So I'm making a list of ways in that Ubuntu is better. This is what I have so far:

Faster
Completely free
Excellent hardware support
What Windows can do, Ubuntu can do better
Upgrading takes minutes as opposed to hours
Completely free
never slows down
No such thing as viruses or spyware

I wanted to emphasize the fact that Ubuntu's free. Got any suggestions? All my parents use it for is web surfing, email, Ebay and research.

[tespio]

Usually telling them that there's no spywares \ viruses and that they wont have to pay a guy to clean their computer every month or half year works also tell then that it comes with all the needed software fore email, work, web...
You could also show them the live CD and show them around... they'll probably like the Gnome desktop...
Also tell them it's way more secure than windows.

[Titan8990]

Excellent hardware support

I have found this to not always be true. In fact, I find this to be one of the major downfalls of Linux but it is the vendors job to ensure that their hardware works with the OS.

[avtolle]

If your parents are Windows users, you might d/l and burn the Kubuntu Live CD for the deomonstration suggested, as the desktop looks more familiar to those who use Windows. A suggestion for your consideration.

[tespio]

You can also tell them that they'll be able to use their windows apps with Wine

[YaroMan86]

I'd emphasize that its more stable, and that they can do all the things they do on Windows and more on Linux.

I never managed to convert my own parents to Linux, but I converted my mom to Firefox. (She looooves it!)

[Kevbert]

Tell them it's backed up by support from this forum (among others), you can do anything you like with the software (unlike Microsoft) and you don't need new hardware when new free software comes out.

[fooman]

top 3 points in my opinion:

1)free
2)can do just about anything that windows can (other then gaming).
3)immune to windows viruses, spyware, adware and the lot.

[avtolle]

Well, I think I've almost got my mother (81 yrs young) about converted; after the next virus problem (she isn't too good about some things) and being without her computer while it's being "tuned up", I'll strike again (almost got there last time).

[Fingers & Thumbs]

It's always worth noting that when Windows updates itself it does so with no regard to installed software and as such can be detrimental to the stability of your set-up. Linux however updates not just itself, but any installed applications too.
As long as your softwre came from the repos that is, but best to keep things simple, it's not always wise to confuse a parent.

[Jordanwb]

I was planning on using the LiveCD. I popped it in and everything worked right away. I forgot about the more stable part. One of the programs my parents uses works perfectly in Wine. My dad despite using computers for ~12 years, knows nothing about computers.

[bufsabre666]

I have found this to not always be true. In fact, I find this to be one of the major downfalls of Linux but it is the vendors job to ensure that their hardware works with the OS.

technically is true, you install xp on a system basicly nothing works, you install linux on a machine 99/100 times youre checking email instantly, no drivers needed

[Jordanwb]

Yes that's what I was getting at. The same is true for my Laptop and Desktop.I only had to set up the wifi card for my laptop and my video card for my desktop pc. That's it.

[madjr]

I wanted to emphasize the fact that Ubuntu's free. Got any suggestions? All my parents use it for is web surfing, email, Ebay and research.

don't tell them is Free !! :mad:

Tell them is better, it's an upgrade. It's immune to viruses and spyware

usually free = viruses, ads, annoying stuff and things of low value

[Zenze]

Well if all they use it for is basic things like you said they have no reason not to switch.

Just explain how Ubuntu does not suffer from the viruses/spyware that plague windows. I know so many people who think that "computers just slow down over time," and had to explain to them how and why this happens. Just tell them than with Ubuntu their computer will stay just as fast as it is when you do a fresh install. In addition, you can say that their personal information will be safer when they go online than it would be in windows.

And you can always let the use the livecd to see if they like it, and still do a duel boot so they can get on windows if they ever need to.

[rickyjones]

Right now I'm making a backup of my parent's computer's hard drive. And I got to thinking: What would I need to say to convince them that Ubuntu is better than Windows? So I'm making a list of ways in that Ubuntu is better. This is what I have so far:

First and foremost they need to arrive at this decision on their own. You telling them it is better will not automatically convince them. They need to see it. They need to feel it. They need to want to switch.


Faster

Faster compared to what? Do you have metrics that prove this? Numbers sell.


Completely free

Emphasize no recurring fees and no licensing costs. "Free" on its own really does not cut it if they need to pay someone to help them configure it.


Excellent hardware support

If your hardware is supported. Be very careful here because when they go to the store to purchase some new piece of hardware it just might not be fully compatible.


What Windows can do, Ubuntu can do better

Like what? What are your specific examples? Take suspend and hibernate. Windows does this quite well, however Ubuntu (well, Linux in general) is constantly plagued with issues in this arena. I wouldn't call that better.


Upgrading takes minutes as opposed to hours

Define upgrading here. Do you mean installing updates and patches to the operating system? I've never had this take more than a half an hour on Windows and this is from a clean installation of Windows XP Professional SP2. I did this installation last evening. Or do you mean installing a newer version of the operating system? In the latter case then I will concede that to get to a fully usable desktop (assuming all hardware is supported without issue) Ubuntu is definitely faster.


Completely free

Uh... see my prior response.


never slows down

Didn't your mother ever tell you "Never say never"? I guarantee you that it will indeed slow down depending on your situation. Once again you need to be specific as to what it is that is or is not slowing down. My example: A work machine that I was using ran 24/7 with Ubuntu 7.10. If I left several documents and network folders open overnight then it would definitely be slower in the morning. Most mornings I would log off and log back in to resume normal speed.


No such thing as viruses or spyware

Very true, one of my favorite things to use to sell Ubuntu.


I wanted to emphasize the fact that Ubuntu's free. Got any suggestions? All my parents use it for is web surfing, email, Ebay and research.
Emphasize that it is indeed an alternative that could save them time and money. It could save them money because they would no longer have to pay a yearly subscription for anti-virus products and anti-spyware products. It will save them time from having to actively monitor the system. A plus is that there is no monetary investment to acquire Ubuntu. However there may be an investment of time and energy to learn a new system.

Show them all the options and offer to give them a trial run. They might like it.

Sincerely,
Richard

[-gabe-noob-]

technically is true, you install xp on a system basicly nothing works, you install linux on a machine 99/100 times youre checking email instantly, no drivers needed


yeah when I install win xp on ANYTHING Boom aBSOULUTLY noooooooooo drivers!

[cardinals_fan]

Why, I ask you? WHY? Why are you trying to convince them to use another OS? Just leave them alone (provided they leave you alone, of course). It's fine to say that you will only fix Linux, but don't try to force anything on anybody.

[hanzomon4]

Really Linux ain't this superior all powerful OS. It has it's faults, some of which may be unacceptable to most people. My whole family is cool using linux. It's on the computer that use to be mine. I just configured it to be as simple and uncomplicated to use for everyday things. Unless your parents are professionals that need a particular app they should be fine. Just make sure that none of the stupid stuff linux does shows it's face. In other words make sure your X won't crash, make sure apps don't just up and disappear. If an app has audio they should never see a "audio device resource is busy" or something, they should just hear the damn audio.

Just set it up, they may like it. Don't try to sell them cause that will only make the imperfections more apparent, and don't try to sell your self on the linux has no flaws bandwagon. Linux has some serious issues, just like OS X and Windows.

[fatality_uk]

Tell them that Microsoft "tested" Vista on little Golden Labrador puppies :D

[days_of_ruin]

Don't tell them its free, they will probably just think "you get what you pay for".You could install it via wubi and let them try it out too.

[aysiu]

This thread appears to be marked [SOLVED]. Does that mean you did convince them to use Ubuntu?

[Jordanwb]

Well no. I have enough good suggestions to get me started. I'm just wondering if my yechnophobic dad will have more/less problems with a different OS that behaves in a different way.

[aysiu]

Well no. I have enough good suggestions to get me started. I'm just wondering if my yechnophobic dad will have more/less problems with a different OS that behaves in a different way.
Depends on how much time he spent on Windows. Change can be difficult if you're used to doing things a certain way.

[madjr]

Well no. I have enough good suggestions to get me started. I'm just wondering if my yechnophobic dad will have more/less problems with a different OS that behaves in a different way.

it doesn't have to behave in a different way.

just set it up as close to what they had before.

then after they feel good with it, you can set it up differently.

take a look at linux mint (http://www.linuxmint.com/), it's usually a good setup for first timers.

also, has a more familiar look and feel.

[Jordanwb]

Depends on how much time he spent on Windows. Change can be difficult if you're used to doing things a certain way.

Just because he's spent 10+ years on windows doesn't mean he remembers what he's supposed to do.

[benny bronx]

Another suggestion would be to install a firewall or HIPS that monitors all outbound connections, and then start opening programs with the parents present. The first time I did that back in the day, it freaked me out a bit as to how many windows components called home without my permission.

[lisati]

Another suggestion would be to install a firewall or HIPS that monitors all outbound connections, and then start opening programs with the parents present. The first time I did that back in the day, it freaked me out a bit as to how many windows components called home without my permission.

+1: I, too, occasionally get surprised by the amount of network activity when you're doing something that doesn't have an obvious need to access the internet or my home network.

[lisati]

It's always worth noting that when Windows updates itself it does so with no regard to installed software and as such can be detrimental to the stability of your set-up. Linux however updates not just itself, but any installed applications too.
As long as your softwre came from the repos that is, but best to keep things simple, it's not always wise to confuse a parent.

+1:

<rant>
Windows updates kinda messed up some of the multimeda applications on my XP system - the applications still work but are liable to either freeze quietly in the background (which doesn't show up until the system is shut down, when the "End program" dialog pops up) or crash immediatelty with an error message that won't mean much to the typical user (something about pure virual call.....)
</rant>

[rune0077]

Faster


Depends on the system. On older systems, definitely. On newer systems, Vista can be blazingly fast.



Completely free


Absolutely.



Excellent hardware support


Compared to what? I would consider this close to being an outright lie.



What Windows can do, Ubuntu can do better


Like running Microsoft Office or Internet Explorer? Let's be honest, there's lots you can do better with Linux, but there's also plenty of things that Windows does better. So that depends on your needs.



Upgrading takes minutes as opposed to hours


True.



never slows down


Never say never, but true enough I suppose.



No such thing as viruses or spyware


Yes. Best selling point. Wait for them to get a virus, then show them how there's no such thing on Linux.

[bufsabre666]

Tell them that Microsoft "tested" Vista on little Golden Labrador puppies :D

my lab was labeled vista compatible, but it didnt have enough ram so i got my money back from microsoft

[Old Marcus]

One thing I do when convincing someone to try Linux is ask 'what do you want to do with your computer?' If they only want to surf the net and write letters, then great. If they need to do various jobs that require windows only software (work-related, specialist software etc.) Then they should probably stick with windows.

My big thing is don't get them to convert, get them to try it. Say 'Here, try Ubuntu, it's another operating system like windows' Don't try and get them to convert immediately. A friend of mine at school was interested in trying linux, I got him to download and burn a copy of Hardy, and he installed it on an old comp of his. He liked it a lot, but stayed with windows since he felt comfortable with what he had and didn't feel ready to jump OS's. I said fair enough, it's not for everybody. I didn't rant and rave and call him a brainwashed idiot(which from the attitudes of some people on the forums here, sounds exactly like what they would do).

Like others have said, don't force them. Get them to try it. If they really don't want it, leave them to it.

(This is a general 'convert-to-linux guide', hence the 'them' all over it.

[Keyper7]

Excellent hardware support

Compared to what? I would consider this close to being an outright lie.

Simple, compared to Windows. Not the preinstalled-with-all-the-hard-work-done-by-the-manufacturer Windows or the finally-usable-after-you-went-through-the-website-of-each-manufacturer-and-did-the-download-install-reboot-rinse-and-repeat-ballet Windows. I'm talking about out-of-the-box Windows.

Windows does not support hardware. It's the hardware manufacturers that support Windows.

[rune0077]

Simple, compared to Windows. Not the preinstalled-with-all-the-hard-work-done-by-the-manufacturer Windows or the finally-usable-after-you-went-through-the-website-of-each-manufacturer-and-did-the-download-install-reboot-rinse-and-repeat-ballet Windows. I'm talking about out-of-the-box Windows.

Windows does not support hardware. It's the hardware manufacturers that support Windows.

Sure, but I have never had much problem installing drivers. People don't care if it's the OS that supports the hardware or vice versa, they just care whether their hardware works or not. And your hardware will almost certainly work with Windows. With Ubuntu, you either buy hardware you know will work, or it's luck of the draw.

[wheezer]

This post may tick off the purists, so let me say first that I use and like Ubuntu. But since this thread is about encouraging others, and some of those simple folk out there who expect a computer to "just work," I feel it important to be candid, based on my experiences and views (not my religion). And please, don't think they are due to lack of knowledge. While I am not the most skilled or patient technical user, I have been around PCs far more than most, do some programming, and have very experienced Ubuntu, Linux and Unix experts on my staff, and I include their experiences as part of my own.

I really wouldn't bother convincing your parents to use Ubuntu or any Linux (yet). Ubuntu is a great platform for knowledgeable people who like to futz and tinker with computers, and don't mind spending a Saturday memorizing some console commands, and maybe a few Unix and Grep [options]. But for the real world of mom and pops, you're possibly condemning yourself to many hours of reorienting them (from Windows), tech support, and in many cases, a lot of aggravation for them--and you.

While few admit it openly, even some very experienced members of this community, who helped me get oriented, have become disillusioned with the Ubuntu reality. There are many reasons for this, and no open source effort like this is going to be painless, perfect, or fun all the time. It's a great effort, but it's been going on many years now, but and it's not really maturing as many suggest it has. The believers believe, and defend it vigorously (as I will, at times), and often, and for many users, they are right to do so. But popular computing is a big category of activity, and there are some pretty good reasons why Windows and Mac prevail, despite their costs and headaches.

Linux and Ubuntu all suffer from a lack of commercial incentive to develop drivers. The generic solutions are just not the bulletproof alternatives the religious will swear they are. Do they work? sometimes. Do they work well? Sometimes.

Whether ATI (no, no, NO!) or NVidea video cards, I've had big problems (and still have video bugs at times). Printers? Total nightmare (just read these forums for 30 minutes, searching for any popular brand). Yes, if you manage to buy a year old, very popular printer, it will often run, after you've spent hours in forums trying to learn from other mistake and not buying the wrong style, brand, or models. Wireless connectivity can be pot luck (again, search the forums).
And no matter how often people talk about the documentation, Ubuntu context-sensitive help is almost non-existent or useful much of the time (nobody wants to have to go to the web to look up why simple copy and pasting of text or images doesn't work across applications like it does in Windows).

Community support? Yes, it's great here, no question about that, and the people are great. But I never really had trouble getting Windows support from forums, either. If you have only an issue now and then, that can get you by. But when you upgrade from one Ubuntu to another, be prepared to spend a lot of time here (unless you have techs around, like I do).

I have been computing for 25 years. The simplest things in Ubuntu can take hours to get right. If everything sets up perfectly, an unskilled user might feel good for a while. But the first time they encounter a real problem, look out. Further, there are so many non-windows like things that will frustrate the hell out of windows users. Nautilus is simply NOT windows explorer. Even simple file searches can be a challenge for the beginner (no folder-specific searching, yet). More seriously, Ubuntu has no RESTORE feature (which even I will use regularly on my other Windows machine).

For ordinary users, often attracted to the free software, I would lower their expectations. Sure, there is Open Office and some good office alternatives, but they are definitely NOT Office. And most of the open source software is way over-hyped, under supported, and even in popular categories, there are very few good alternatives. There is no really mature video player. Both of the popular ones are state-of-the-art, for maybe the year 2001, riddled with bugs, and rarely updated.

When Ubuntu runs, it's virus free, and stable, and for a developer like me, it's just great. You can write letters, surf the web, and watch a YouTube flash video (if you're Flash installs properly). And for a small business, that doesn't want to squander precious resources on overblown commercial software, it's a dream come true (if they have a tech on staff). But I would rather cut off my arm than try to set my mother up with it. I just haven't got the time.

Could Linux/Ubuntu rule the world one day? Yes, and I really wish it would. It's by far the best Linux effort yet, and the foundation aspects are in place to change our computing world. And like many, I detest Windows and Microsoft as the scourge that they are. But I don't see the dream happening until some (additional) billionaires (or companies) get on-board and help start a really serious driver development, QA and Help system. Shuttleworth has admitted he won't foot the bill forever, and until these things are addressed, the vision of a real Window's killing alternative that gives us all a friendly, flexible, easy-to-use, inexpensive OS is a fantasy.

Having said all this (and ducked a few flying chairs thrown by the faithful), I am done with Windows forever. But I may try Macs, at long last. I just have little hope that Ubuntu will really be the Windows-slayer I've waited years for. At least, not in the near term. I use it, and have to use it, but I won't say I love it, and I sure have no wish to support my friends and family, because I recommended it to them. I hate to admit it, but for most casual users, Windows is all they need, given the headaches and alternative might entail.

Of course, there are many opinions, so in the interests of vetting this topic for those who stumble on it, here's a few good links I know of. Just remember as you explore this, that very technical people with skills, and business owners eager to save money on software, will have a very different perspective than you might.

Good luck.

Five essentials things a Newbie should know.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=425353&page=2&highlight=xkill

Some positive views of the problems
http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Truth_about_Switching_to_Ubuntu

Some negative outlook
http://www.devside.net/blog/ubuntu-dying-2

[madjr]

This post may tick off the purists, so let me say first that I use and like Ubuntu. But since this thread is about encouraging others, and some of those simple folk out there who expect a computer to "just work," I feel it important to be candid, based on my experiences and views (not my religion). And please, don't think they are due to lack of knowledge. While I am not the most skilled or patient technical user, I have been around PCs far more than most, do some programming, and have very experienced Ubuntu, Linux and Unix experts on my staff, and I include their experiences as part of my own.

I really wouldn't bother convincing your parents to use Ubuntu or any Linux (yet). Ubuntu is a great platform for knowledgeable people who like to futz and tinker with computers, and don't mind spending a Saturday memorizing some console commands, and maybe a few Unix and Grep [options]. But for the real world of mom and pops, you're possibly condemning yourself to many hours of reorienting them (from Windows), tech support, and in many cases, a lot of aggravation for them--and you.

While few admit it openly, even some very experienced members of this community, who helped me get oriented, have become disillusioned with the Ubuntu reality. There are many reasons for this, and no open source effort like this is going to be painless, perfect, or fun all the time. It's a great effort, but it's been going on many years now, but and it's not really maturing as many suggest it has. The believers believe, and defend it vigorously (as I will, at times), and often, and for many users, they are right to do so. But popular computing is a big category of activity, and there are some pretty good reasons why Windows and Mac prevail, despite their costs and headaches.

Linux and Ubuntu all suffer from a lack of commercial incentive to develop drivers. The generic solutions are just not the bulletproof alternatives the religious will swear they are. Do they work? sometimes. Do they work well? Sometimes.

Whether ATI (no, no, NO!) or NVidea video cards, I've had big problems (and still have video bugs at times). Printers? Total nightmare (just read these forums for 30 minutes, searching for any popular brand). Yes, if you manage to buy a year old, very popular printer, it will often run, after you've spent hours in forums trying to learn from other mistake and not buying the wrong style, brand, or models. Wireless connectivity can be pot luck (again, search the forums).
And no matter how often people talk about the documentation, Ubuntu context-sensitive help is almost non-existent or useful much of the time (nobody wants to have to go to the web to look up why simple copy and pasting of text or images doesn't work across applications like it does in Windows).

Community support? Yes, it's great here, no question about that, and the people are great. But I never really had trouble getting Windows support from forums, either. If you have only an issue now and then, that can get you by. But when you upgrade from one Ubuntu to another, be prepared to spend a lot of time here (unless you have techs around, like I do).

I have been computing for 25 years. The simplest things in Ubuntu can take hours to get right. If everything sets up perfectly, an unskilled user might feel good for a while. But the first time they encounter a real problem, look out. Further, there are so many non-windows like things that will frustrate the hell out of windows users. Nautilus is simply NOT windows explorer. Even simple file searches can be a challenge for the beginner (no folder-specific searching, yet). More seriously, Ubuntu has no RESTORE feature (which even I will use regularly on my other Windows machine).

For ordinary users, often attracted to the free software, I would lower their expectations. Sure, there is Open Office and some good office alternatives, but they are definitely NOT Office. And most of the open source software is way over-hyped, under supported, and even in popular categories, there are very few good alternatives. There is no really mature video player. Both of the popular ones are state-of-the-art, for maybe the year 2001, riddled with bugs, and rarely updated.

When Ubuntu runs, it's virus free, and stable, and for a developer like me, it's just great. You can write letters, surf the web, and watch a YouTube flash video (if you're Flash installs properly). And for a small business, that doesn't want to squander precious resources on overblown commercial software, it's a dream come true (if they have a tech on staff). But I would rather cut off my arm than try to set my mother up with it. I just haven't got the time.

Could Linux/Ubuntu rule the world one day? Yes, and I really wish it would. It's by far the best Linux effort yet, and the foundation aspects are in place to change our computing world. And like many, I detest Windows and Microsoft as the scourge that they are. But I don't see the dream happening until some (additional) billionaires (or companies) get on-board and help start a really serious driver development, QA and Help system. Shuttleworth has admitted he won't foot the bill forever, and until these things are addressed, the vision of a real Window's killing alternative that gives us all a friendly, flexible, easy-to-use, inexpensive OS is a fantasy.

Having said all this (and ducked a few flying chairs thrown by the faithful), I am done with Windows forever. But I may try Macs, at long last. I just have little hope that Ubuntu will really be the Windows-slayer I've waited years for. At least, not in the near term. I use it, and have to use it, but I won't say I love it, and I sure have no wish to support my friends and family, because I recommended it to them. I hate to admit it, but for most casual users, Windows is all they need, given the headaches and alternative might entail.

Of course, there are many opinions, so in the interests of vetting this topic for those who stumble on it, here's a few good links I know of. Just remember as you explore this, that very technical people with skills, and business owners eager to save money on software, will have a very different perspective than you might.

Good luck.

Five essentials things a Newbie should know.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=425353&page=2&highlight=xkill

Some positive views of the problems
http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Truth_about_Switching_to_Ubuntu

Some negative outlook
http://www.devside.net/blog/ubuntu-dying-2


i agree 50%

the other 50% is just F.U.D. (fear uncertainty and doubt)


my family uses Ubuntu and none of them had to learn any "*nix Commands"

When my family used Windows they didn't had to learn anything about "fixing the registry", format/re-install every 4 months, how to update their drivers, How to deal with Spyware and clean trojans, how to flash their Bios, etc.


I fixed all their problems in Windows for them

i am tech support for my family, that's all they have to know.

No matter what OS: windows, mac, linux, palmOS..... i will always be their tech support.

Thats how the world works and that's why you have a mechanic fix your car.

[aysiu]

i agree 50%

the other 50% is just F.U.D. (fear uncertainty and doubt)


my family uses Ubuntu and none of them had to learn any "*nix Commands"

When my family used Windows they didn't had to learn anything about "fixing the registry", format/re-install, how to install drivers, How to deal with Spyware and clean trojans, etc.


I fixed all their problems in Windows for them

i am tech support for my family, that's all they have to know.

No matter what OS: windows, mac, linux, palmOS..... i will always be their tech support.

Thats how the world works and that's why you have a mechanic fix your car.
Amen.

I was speaking with a friend of mine the other day. His wife works from home and hires a company (at a per-hour rate) to fix any tech problems she has. I know some people who use their local computer store or the Geek Squad.

But most people just ask friends or family members for help. I've helped people with Mac problems and Windows problems. If I knew any Linux users who needed help, I'd help them, too.

It's a myth that Windows users need to learn anything. If they want to learn how to use Windows, that's fine. Most of them just ask more knowledgeable Windows users for help, though.

[rune0077]

It's a myth that Windows users need to learn anything. If they want to learn how to use Windows, that's fine. Most of them just ask more knowledgeable Windows users for help, though.

It depends on age. For someone like my younger siblings, it was never a question whether they had to learn anything, or even wanted to, they just grew up with it, and they acquired Windows skills in much the same way that they learned to talk and walk, etc. It's now just a natural part of evolving. They don't really need to ask anyone, because they can do most of it themselves, and none of them made any effort or conscious decision to become "good" at it. It just came in with the mothersmilk.

All this complaining that computer-users doesn't know anything about computers, are always referring to the pre-PC generation. I know stuff about my computer that my brother don't, but that's stuff I've learned from education and deliberate hard-learning. My brother has no form of tech-oriented schooling, and has never read a computer-book in his life, yet he easily installs drivers, changes graphics-cards, configure the registry, etc.

[aysiu]

I don't really think you're disagreeing with me, rune0077.

I didn't say no one learns computers. I said if people want to learn it, they can. But most Windows users I know just ask for help when they encounter a problem instead of learning how to solve it themselves. Maybe I just work with "old" people.

[rune0077]

I don't really think you're disagreeing with me, rune0077.

I didn't say no one learns computers. I said if people want to learn it, they can. But most Windows users I know just ask for help when they encounter a problem instead of learning how to solve it themselves. Maybe I just work with "old" people.

No, no, I wasn't trying to disagree with you. I was just pointing out that for younger people, it's not so much a question of what you want or don't want, it's just something you do. Like, a baby will learn to walk, whether it wants to or not, it happens all on its own.

Sorry if it sounded like I tried to disagree, wasn't the intention.

[aysiu]

No, no, I wasn't trying to disagree with you. I was just pointing out that for younger people, it's not so much a question of what you want or don't want, it's just something you do. Like, a baby will learn to walk, whether it wants to or not, it happens all on its own.

Sorry if it sounded like I tried to disagree, wasn't the intention.
I generally don't have an old geezer "When I was your age..." complex, but I am very grateful to have grown up in the early 1980s. I was just in time to see personal computers for the general populace and all sorts of pre-OS X and XP Apple v. Microsoft battles, and non-Mac/non-Windows computers used by everyday people, the Netscape/Internet Explorer browser wars, the changes (for some geographic areas) from dial-up to broadband and then wireless, the filesharing/MP3/DRM controversies, the rise of portable music players... it's been a very exciting past three decades in the computing world.

I'm kind of sad that kids who are growing up now are basically just seeing iPods and Windows computers with Microsoft Office.

[rune0077]

I generally don't have an old geezer "When I was your age..." complex, but I am very grateful to have grown up in the early 1980s. I was just in time to see personal computers for the general populace and all sorts of pre-OS X and XP Apple v. Microsoft battles, and non-Mac/non-Windows computers used by everyday people, the Netscape/Internet Explorer browser wars, the changes (for some geographic areas) from dial-up to broadband and then wireless, the filesharing/MP3/DRM controversies, the rise of portable music players... it's been a very exciting past three decades in the computing world.


Yeah, (like so many others on this forum I'd imagine) my first computer was the Commodore 64, and the Amiga was the first one I bought for my own money. I can still get a little nostalgic thinking about them.



I'm kind of sad that kids who are growing up now are basically just seeing iPods and Windows computers with Microsoft Office.

I have a soft spot for the iPod. I don't know why, I just like the darn buggers. You might be interested in learning that Open Office and Firefox is quite the thing here in Denmark. While kids still grow up with Windows, and without knowing what Linux is, Firefox is quite a popular browser amongst both my brother and sister's crowd - I thought I should educate my kid-brother in Open Source and told him about this thing called Firefox, to which he just replied "yeah, everyone uses it".

[dje]

I generally don't have an old geezer "When I was your age..." complex, but I am very grateful to have grown up in the early 1980s. I was just in time to see personal computers for the general populace and all sorts of pre-OS X and XP Apple v. Microsoft battles, and non-Mac/non-Windows computers used by everyday people, the Netscape/Internet Explorer browser wars, the changes (for some geographic areas) from dial-up to broadband and then wireless, the filesharing/MP3/DRM controversies, the rise of portable music players... it's been a very exciting past three decades in the computing world.

I'm kind of sad that kids who are growing up now are basically just seeing iPods and Windows computers with Microsoft Office.

+1 my first computer was an acorn with risc os, i loved it :KS

[aysiu]

I have a soft spot for the iPod. I don't know why, I just like the darn buggers. You might be interested in learning that Open Office and Firefox is quite the thing here in Denmark. While kids still grow up with Windows, and without knowing what Linux is, Firefox is quite a popular browser amongst both my brother and sister's crowd - I thought I should educate my kid-brother in Open Source and told him about this thing called Firefox, to which he just replied "yeah, everyone uses it".
That's cool. I've got to visit Denmark some day.

I don't have a problem with iPods themselves, but I don't like how people just buy them without thinking, as if there are no alternatives. If you know the alternatives but still prefer an iPod, that's a different situation altogether.

[Keyper7]

Sure, but I have never had much problem installing drivers. People don't care if it's the OS that supports the hardware or vice versa, they just care whether their hardware works or not. And your hardware will almost certainly work with Windows. With Ubuntu, you either buy hardware you know will work, or it's luck of the draw.

I agree, I was just pointing out that you should be more careful before insinuating that someone's a liar.

[mkendall]

I generally don't have an old geezer "When I was your age..." complex, but I am very grateful to have grown up in the early 1980s. I was just in time to see personal computers for the general populace and all sorts of pre-OS X and XP Apple v. Microsoft battles, and non-Mac/non-Windows computers used by everyday people, the Netscape/Internet Explorer browser wars, the changes (for some geographic areas) from dial-up to broadband and then wireless, the filesharing/MP3/DRM controversies, the rise of portable music players... it's been a very exciting past three decades in the computing world.

I'm kind of sad that kids who are growing up now are basically just seeing iPods and Windows computers with Microsoft Office.

I miss buggy whips. *sigh*

[rune0077]

I agree, I was just pointing out that you should be more careful before insinuating that someone's a liar.

It sounded harsher than it was meant. If someone knows the situation between Ubuntu and hardware and just tells their friends/family that it has excellent hardware support, without first checking their hardware, I would consider that misleading at best, though.

[wheezer]

Well, I wish this hadn't gone off topic for 3 pages, but thanks for the replies.

As for people growing up with Windows? There's some truth in that. I am not suggesting an OS needs to be simplistic. We have macs for that. I am suggesting that dozens of good ideas in windows, that people are used to, are constantly sought in linux. Anyone that thinks not having an OLE equivalent for dragging images and objects from one app to another, or having a consistent copy buffer, or a decent folder search, is probably mostly playing games, and not doing a lot of productive work.

I am not quibbling over frills, but core things that most users need, which they are used to, and for which there no linux/ubuntu workarounds (yet). As for assuming the need for support from others, well, I find that notion silly. It may often be true. But no good product has never been marketed under the assumption that you need help to do some simple things you were led to believe it would do out of the box.

I think apologizing for poor product, encourages worse product. I think Ubuntu should stop all the feature creep, and just focus on the enhancing the basic platform and driver support for a release or too. And a wizards program would probably help a lot, too.

[CheShA]

[SOLVED] I want to convince my parents Ubuntu is better than windows
[SOLVED] I want to convince my parents Ubuntu is better than windows
[SOLVED] I want to convince my parents Ubuntu is better than windows


Solved? HAHAHAHAHAHA Love it!

[cardinals_fan]

As for people growing up with Windows? There's some truth in that. I am not suggesting an OS needs to be simplistic. We have macs for that. I am suggesting that dozens of good ideas in windows, that people are used to, are constantly sought in linux. Anyone that thinks not having an OLE equivalent for dragging images and objects from one app to another, or having a consistent copy buffer, or a decent folder search, is probably mostly playing games, and not doing a lot of productive work.

In general my productivity is enhanced when I keep myself organized. And an organized system doesn't need endless "search this" and "search that" and "may I please index this for you?" type apps.