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sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 08:34 PM
Is it possible to have a frank discussion about Ubuntu on this site?

I ask because it seems that fanboy-ism is so high here that it doesn’t seem possible to actually talk honestly. I thought Apple forums were filled with fanboys but they have NOTHING on this place!

It’s really silly too. I mean, so many like preaching that they are fighting “The Man” by wiping XP off their systems and loading Linux, then they work feverishly to get their Windows programs to run in Wine.
Please.
Hate to burst your bubble, but loading any Linux distro on a computer that had Windows on it doesn’t hurt MicroSoft one bit – you already PAID MicroSoft their licensing fees when you bought that computer! The fact that you don’t use their OS doesn’t mean squat. Loading Linux on a Windows computer means you are financially backing “the big evil empire” just as much as any Windows die-hard power user so you can dispense with the rhetoric.

What difference does it make anyway? I mean, who cares what other OS you use or don’t use? Isn’t the fact that you are here mean that you WANT to use Ubuntu?
Besides, unless you live in the woods, don’t own an automobile, use no electricity, eat only what you can grow – you are supporting some big corporations anyway. At least be honest about it. Linux fanboys remind me of hippies – only without the conviction.

The fanboy-ism is the most off putting thing about this site.

RiceMonster
June 17th, 2008, 08:36 PM
You're on a Linux forum; obviously there's fanboys.

bufsabre666
June 17th, 2008, 08:37 PM
as a rule i hate all fan boys and girls

but then again, i hate everybody

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 08:38 PM
as A Rule I Hate All Fan Boys And Girls

But Then Again, I Hate Everybody


Lol

Delever
June 17th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Well, I actually live in woods, own no automobile, electricity comes from walls and food grows here in basement nicely. What else would I need? :D

gameryoshi600
June 17th, 2008, 08:40 PM
you're On A Linux Forum; Obviously There's Fanboys.

+1

FyreBrand
June 17th, 2008, 08:40 PM
People get excited about things they are passionate about. Sometimes that clouds reason and people lose their perspective, but community members seem to appreciate discussion. And the narrow minded view swings both ways else we wouldn't have the Linux Desktop Readiness thread. :P

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I should point out that I think of a fanboy as someone that has an unrealistic view. They think the product they support has no flaws and is perfect in every way.

This doesn’t describe the reality of Ubuntu – or any OS for that matter.

madjr
June 17th, 2008, 08:51 PM
I should point out that I think of a fanboy as someone that has an unrealistic view. They think the product they support has no flaws and is perfect in every way.

This doesn’t describe the reality of Ubuntu – or any OS for that matter.

maybe you should quote some of those people.

and yes, linux has many flaws even if am an ubuntu-fan

oh and if you go to the Yankee stadium, don't tell me you won't find aggressive Yankee fanboys...

at least a linux-fanboy won't hit you in the face with a bat

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 08:58 PM
maybe you should quote some of those people.

and yes, linux has many flaws even if am an ubuntu-fan

oh and if you go to the Yankee stadium, don't tell me you won't find Yankee fanboys...

Well, I don't want to call anyone out - especially when they haven't written anything in this thread, but I'm sure you've seen their posts.

I appreciate your honesty that there are flaws. I'm new to Ubuntu but I'm already a fan - just not a fanboy.

Stefanie
June 17th, 2008, 09:01 PM
Is it possible to have a frank discussion about Ubuntu on this site?

I ask because it seems that fanboy-ism is so high here that it doesn’t seem possible to actually talk honestly. I thought Apple forums were filled with fanboys but they have NOTHING on this place!

It’s really silly too. I mean, so many like preaching that they are fighting “The Man” by wiping XP off their systems and loading Linux, then they work feverishly to get their Windows programs to run in Wine.
Please.
Hate to burst your bubble, but loading any Linux distro on a computer that had Windows on it doesn’t hurt MicroSoft one bit – you already PAID MicroSoft their licensing fees when you bought that computer! The fact that you don’t use their OS doesn’t mean squat. Loading Linux on a Windows computer means you are financially backing “the big evil empire” just as much as any Windows die-hard power user so you can dispense with the rhetoric.

What difference does it make anyway? I mean, who cares what other OS you use or don’t use? Isn’t the fact that you are here mean that you WANT to use Ubuntu?
Besides, unless you live in the woods, don’t own an automobile, use no electricity, eat only what you can grow – you are supporting some big corporations anyway. At least be honest about it. Linux fanboys remind me of hippies – only without the conviction.

The fanboy-ism is the most off putting thing about this site.

you've got a point, but you should also understand that a lot of people here have really bad experiences with windows. i understand you can get frustrated with it... Moreover M$ is a really dishonest company which does not much good to software development, and makes huge profit out of inferior products.

some people really feel like they found "heaven" when they started using linux, and that clouds their ability to be critical for a while. but i think most people get back to earth after some time and realize that it's not perfect. those people've just fallen in love :)
i know it's annoying, but why would you try to take their illusions away? they will learn to see things with more nuances by themselves. just ignore them and have your discussions with other people...

bufsabre666
June 17th, 2008, 09:02 PM
maybe you should quote some of those people.

and yes, linux has many flaws even if am an ubuntu-fan

oh and if you go to the Yankee stadium, don't tell me you won't find aggressive Yankee fanboys...

at least a linux-fanboy won't hit you in the face with a bat

you dont have to goto yankees stadium for that, im right here

z0mbie
June 17th, 2008, 09:05 PM
You'll find that Linux fanboys are superior than Apple fanboys, because we are more technically savy and have a much more diverse background.

Microsoft fanboys are just plain stupid.

So it works out to:

Linux fanboy > Apple fanboy > Microsoft fanbaby

will1911a1
June 17th, 2008, 09:07 PM
Microsoft fanboys are just plain stupid.


That is extremely rude. Who are you to criticize what software someone else uses?

RiceMonster
June 17th, 2008, 09:07 PM
Linux fanboy > Apple fanboy > Microsoft fanbaby

Fanboys are equally as stupid. I think Linux zealots who try and convince every Windows user ever that they should use Linux are just as stupid as Apple and Microsoft fanboys. People shouldn't care so much about what OS other people use.

z0mbie
June 17th, 2008, 09:09 PM
That is extremely rude. Who are you to criticize what software someone else uses?

It's not rude at all, it's completely true. They hate Linux/Open Source and don't know why. I'm speculating job security.

kaboodle_fish
June 17th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Everyone else is wrong. I am right. Always.

End of.

Xzallion
June 17th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Is it possible to have a frank discussion about Ubuntu on this site?

Yes.


I ask because it seems that fanboy-ism is so high here that it doesn’t seem possible to actually talk honestly. I thought Apple forums were filled with fanboys but they have NOTHING on this place!

While fan-boy activity has risen on these forums over the last few months, It is still very possible to have a legitimate discussion about Ubuntu, Operating Systems, Computers, Microsoft and Apple. You just have to watch how you word things, because if you try anger individuals or just say they are wrong instead of debating from a neutral stance then you are less likely to get quality feedback.


It’s really silly too. I mean, so many like preaching that they are fighting “The Man” by wiping XP off their systems and loading Linux, then they work feverishly to get their Windows programs to run in Wine.
Please.
Hate to burst your bubble, but loading any Linux distrobution on a computer that had Windows on it doesn’t hurt MicroSoft one bit – you already PAID MicroSoft their licensing fees when you bought that computer! The fact that you don’t use their OS doesn’t mean squat. Loading Linux on a Windows computer means you are financially backing “the big evil empire” just as much as any Windows die-hard power user so you can dispense with the rhetoric.

First, most of the individuals that preach that don't buy pre-built computers, and build their own machines. They do not pay for any version of Microsoft Windows. Second, even if the machine did have windows on it, by putting any other operating system on it you expose your family and friends to it. This helps raise awareness of options where previously there were none.


What difference does it make anyway? I mean, who cares what other OS you use or don’t use? Isn’t the fact that you are here mean that you WANT to use Ubuntu?
Besides, unless you live in the woods, don’t own an automobile, use no electricity, eat only what you can grow – you are supporting some big corporations anyway. At least be honest about it. Linux fanboys remind me of hippies – only without the conviction.

Your confusing Ubuntu with the Free Software Movement. Most people don't care what operating system or distrobution your using and instead mainly want code to be free to work properly and be learned from. From the developer side, they want code to be able to be ported to any system long as the hardware allows. They want to have a chance to try to improve it or customize it for themselves if they so desire.
From the user side, they want open standards. They want to know their file formats will be readable in ten, twenty or fifty years because the file spec is open and can be re-implemented if need be. This is a big concern for archiving data. Second they want their files to be able to be read on any OS they use, so that the OS doesn't matter as much, and they are not forced to pay for something when theres a cheaper alternative available.
I don't think any of these people you speak of claim to not support any form of corporation, most avoid monopolies or ones with practices they don't agree with, like if they don't recycle or they pollute too much.


The fanboy-ism is the most off putting thing about this site.

I have been on here for over two years, and my personal experience has been fairly well rounded. For ever fanboy there has been about four to five helpful balanced individuals. You may want to give it more of a chance, or instead use one of the many other available support options if you wish to use ubuntu without the community. For Example: The official Ubuntu book available in the store and most major book retailers, the wiki, the ubuntuguide (http://www.ubuntuguide.org) and if all else fails do a internet search on the search provider of your choice.

FyreBrand
June 17th, 2008, 09:10 PM
You'll find that Linux fanboys are superior than Apple fanboys, because we are more technically savvy and have a much more diverse background.

Microsoft fanboys are just plain stupid.

So it works out to:

Linux fanboy > Apple fanboy > Microsoft fanbabyAs a stupid Windows user I got a chuckle out of that so I fixed it for you. :KS

bufsabre666
June 17th, 2008, 09:11 PM
Linux fanboy > Apple fanboy > Microsoft fanbaby

even if this is a linux site it doesnt matter, in terms of fanboyism linux fanboys are the worst, they do nothing but critize other operating systems, non stop, second worst is mac, cause they never have anything smart to say as to why you should have a mac, ever answer is "its better" with no support for the claim,and fan boys suck but windows fanboys are the best, prolly cause theres only 5 of them in the world, but everyone on windows knows its not the best, but it works atleast ((mostly))

will1911a1
June 17th, 2008, 09:12 PM
It's not rude at all, it's completely true. They hate Linux/Open Source and don't know why. I'm speculating job security.

Yes, horray for blanket generalizations.

I stand by my statement: That is a very rude comment.

zmjjmz
June 17th, 2008, 09:12 PM
I appreciate your honesty that there are flaws. I'm new to Ubuntu but I'm already a fan - just not a fanboy.

Are you a boy by any chance?

I agree that some of the MS bashers are obviously fanboys, but having been one myself I can safely say that it's just a phase.
They just happened to find the CC before it goes away.

Anyways, I really have yet to see any people saying "I've defeated the man by installing Ubuntu!" (or any variant, badly typed).
So either I hang out in the wrong forum or you're just making a bad Youtube based generalization (it's bad over there. I know.).

will1911a1
June 17th, 2008, 09:15 PM
You'll find that Linux fanboys are superior than Apple fanboys, because we are more technically savy and have a much more diverse background.


While I'm at it, this is also a false blanket generalization. I have worked with Windows users that are extremely experienced in the IT field.

z0mbie
June 17th, 2008, 09:15 PM
Fanboys are equally as stupid. I think Linux zealots who try and convince every Windows user ever that they should use Linux are just as stupid as Apple and Microsoft fanboys. People shouldn't care so much about what OS other people use.

It's not about zealots, I'm tired of fixing people's spyware/malware; of course I'm going to present them Linux OS over Windows as the inevitable solution.

z0mbie
June 17th, 2008, 09:16 PM
While I'm at it, this is also a false blanket generalization. I have worked with Windows users that are extremely experienced in the IT field.

As have I, but they know enough to respect Linux/Open Source/GNU. Microsoft fanboys don't know anything but still spread FUD.

will1911a1
June 17th, 2008, 09:16 PM
It's not about zealots, I'm tired of fixing people's spyware/malware; of course I'm going to present them Linux OS over Windows as the inevitable solution.

So speak for yourself and lay off the attacks. Happy Windows users aren't stupid because you haven't got any patience for the maintenance required for keeping the system clean.

z0mbie
June 17th, 2008, 09:19 PM
So speak for yourself and lay off the attacks. Happy Windows users aren't stupid because you haven't got any patience for the maintenance required for keeping the system clean.

It's not even about maintenance issue, every time it happens I get money in my pocket. It's not an attack, you are stupid/ignorant if you don't talk from experience, which is a typical Microsoft fanboy.

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Yes.



While fan-boy activity has risen on these forums over the last few months, It is still very possible to have a legitimate discussion about Ubuntu, Operating Systems, Computers, Microsoft and Apple. You just have to watch how you word things, because if you try anger individuals or just say they are wrong instead of debating from a neutral stance then you are less likely to get quality feedback.



First, most of the individuals that preach that don't buy pre-built computers, and build their own machines. They do not pay for any version of Microsoft Windows. Second, even if the machine did have windows on it, by putting any other operating system on it you expose your family and friends to it. This helps raise awareness of options where previously there were none.



Your confusing Ubuntu with the Free Software Movement. Most people don't care what operating system or distrobution your using and instead mainly want code to be free to work properly and be learned from. From the developer side, they want code to be able to be ported to any system long as the hardware allows. They want to have a chance to try to improve it or customize it for themselves if they so desire.
From the user side, they want open standards. They want to know their file formats will be readable in ten, twenty or fifty years because the file spec is open and can be re-implemented if need be. This is a big concern for archiving data. Second they want their files to be able to be read on any OS they use, so that the OS doesn't matter as much, and they are not forced to pay for something when theres a cheaper alternative available.
I don't think any of these people you speak of claim to not support any form of corporation, most avoid monopolies or ones with practices they don't agree with, like if they don't recycle or they pollute too much.



I have been on here for over two years, and my personal experience has been fairly well rounded. For ever fanboy there has been about four to five helpful balanced individuals. You may want to give it more of a chance, or instead use one of the many other available support options if you wish to use ubuntu without the community. For Example: The official Ubuntu book available in the store and most major book retailers, the wiki, the ubuntuguide (http://www.ubuntuguide.org) and if all else fails do a internet search on the search provider of your choice.


Now that was a great post.
Ok, I my not agree with everything 100% but still - great post.

Oh, I'm not giving up. I lurk here more than post. Lurking eventually answers most of my questions - and I have ordered a couple of books.

Fanboys just drive me nuts - I've posted similar sentiments on Apple's forums.

will1911a1
June 17th, 2008, 09:20 PM
It's not even about maintenance issue, every time it happens I get money in my pocket. It's not an attack, you are stupid/ignorant if you don't talk from experience, which is a typical Microsoft fanboy.

How can you possibly know what their experiences have been? Disagreeing with your choice of software for whatever reason does not make them stupid.

monstermudder78
June 17th, 2008, 09:21 PM
I thought it was fanboi:confused:

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 09:22 PM
Are you a boy by any chance?

I agree that some of the MS bashers are obviously fanboys, but having been one myself I can safely say that it's just a phase.
They just happened to find the CC before it goes away.

Anyways, I really have yet to see any people saying "I've defeated the man by installing Ubuntu!" (or any variant, badly typed).
So either I hang out in the wrong forum or you're just making a bad Youtube based generalization (it's bad over there. I know.).

I'm a guy - and heck, my first post was met with these ideas, so no generalizations are coming from me.

Mazza558
June 17th, 2008, 09:22 PM
I use Windows every day (along with Ubuntu), and I don't despise it. In fact, I still think Windows does some things better than Ubuntu - e.g the menu, interface and font size, etc. I probably still favor Ubuntu though.

koenn
June 17th, 2008, 09:25 PM
unless you live in the woods, don’t own an automobile, use no electricity, eat only what you can grow – you are supporting some big corporations anyway. At least be honest about it. Linux fanboys remind me of hippies
You're insulting the hippies.

cespinal
June 17th, 2008, 09:26 PM
You are absolutely right in everything you said so you have my attentions for that. Good job.

I ultimately think switching from one OS to another has to be a matter of FUNCTIONALITY, not morality. If it works for you to pay a bunch of $$$$, its completely okay!. Otherwise if you just dont want to pay or even better, you feel more confortable with another OS which happens to be free, well, better yet!

There is so much obscurity in all this morally-driven debates. bottom line is there is no absolute goodness in our moral mindset. You hate microsoft but you run wine. You again hate microsoft, but you will buy windows preinstalled computers (already giving MS its piece of pie) so you can find the way to get another OS running on them. No playing games on your linux system? No prob! you get an XBOX, PS or Wii!!!

so... F@!@$ morals!!!!

z0mbie
June 17th, 2008, 09:27 PM
How can you possibly know what their experiences have been? Disagreeing with your choice of software for whatever reason does not make them stupid.

OK lets look at the definition of stupid:


stupid
Pronunciation:
\ˈstü-pəd, ˈstyü-\
Function:
adjective

- given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner

Microsoft fanboys don't make intelligent criticism of Linux/OS. They resort to things like "Open Sauce" "Hardy HARDON." While Linux fanboys actually have some merit behind their criticisms.

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 09:28 PM
You're insulting the hippies.

Ha-ha, not intentionally I assure you! I did say they were like hippies WITHOUT the convictions! :)
Hippies have convictions, that's for sure.

cardinals_fan
June 17th, 2008, 09:30 PM
It's not rude at all, it's completely true. They hate Linux/Open Source and don't know why. I'm speculating job security.
What a generalization. Epic fail.

will1911a1
June 17th, 2008, 09:30 PM
OK lets look at the definition of stupid:



Microsoft fanboys don't make intelligent criticism of Linux/OS. They resort to things like "Open Sauce" "Hardy HARDON." While Linux fanboys actually have some merit behind their criticisms.

I disagree. I've met plenty of people with experience with both OSes that genuinely prefer Windows over Linux.

While we're discussing Linux fanboys: Terms like "winblowz" and "microsucks" don't exactly stand out as earmarks of intelligent discourse. The Linux community has it's share of irrational people just like any other. I've yet to see you accuse them of being "stupid", however.

FyreBrand
June 17th, 2008, 09:31 PM
OK lets look at the definition of stupid:



Microsoft fanboys don't make intelligent criticism of Linux/OS. They resort to things like "Open Sauce" "Hardy HARDON." While Linux fanboys actually have some merit behind their criticisms.
You mean when they post stuff like M$ or Microsuck? Narrow minded ignorance is not platform based nor is it limited to technology. Hating people or saying hateful disparaging remarks about them is little different than hating someone for their ethnic origin, religion, social background, or nationality. Spreading the hate is just wrong no matter what point you're coming from.

will1911a1
June 17th, 2008, 09:32 PM
You mean when they post stuff like M$ or Microsuck? Narrow minded ignorance is not platform based nor is it limited to technology. Hating people or saying hateful disparaging remarks about them is little different than hating someone for their ethnic origin, religion, social background, or nationality. Spreading the hate is just wrong no matter what point you're coming from.

Exactly my point, thank you.

aysiu
June 17th, 2008, 09:34 PM
I don't understand where this thread is coming from. I looked at the only other thread you posted in (and started), and you seem to have a well-rounded view on operating systems - the subsequent discussion was shortlived and quite civil.

What's with the chip on your shoulder?

I've been here over three years and seen thousands of threads. I have seen only a handful of Linux fanboys in that time. We do seem to have a number of Mac fanboys, though, for a Linux site. A handful of Mac fanboys decided they want to preach the Mac gospel over here and any time a thread about Macs pop up, so do they, and they make it sound as if Macs are perfect and Apple can do no wrong.

The Linux users here, on the other hand, tend to stick up for Linux only if they feel it's being excessively bashed or if sweeping generalizations are made based on single user experiences.

Very rarely do Linux users here really believe there are no flaws in Linux. Go ahead. Ask the Ubuntu users here what they think the deficiences in Linux and Ubuntu are. I guarantee that thread will be a long one.

If anything, I'd say the Linux users here tend to be overly critical of Ubuntu, Mark Shuttleworth, and the Ubuntu developers.

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 09:41 PM
I don't understand where this thread is coming from. I looked at the only other thread you posted in (and started), and you seem to have a well-rounded view on operating systems - the subsequent discussion was shortlived and quite civil.

What's with the chip on your shoulder?

I've been here over three years and seen thousands of threads. I have seen only a handful of Linux fanboys in that time. We do seem to have a number of Mac fanboys, though, for a Linux site. A handful of Mac fanboys decided they want to preach the Mac gospel over here and any time a thread about Macs pop up, so do they, and they make it sound as if Macs are perfect and Apple can do no wrong.

The Linux users here, on the other hand, tend to stick up for Linux only if they feel it's being excessively bashed or if sweeping generalizations are made based on single user experiences.

Very rarely do Linux users here really believe there are no flaws in Linux. Go ahead. Ask the Ubuntu users here what they think the deficiences in Linux and Ubuntu are. I guarantee that thread will be a long one.

If anything, I'd say the Linux users here tend to be overly critical of Ubuntu, Mark Shuttleworth, and the Ubuntu developers.

Obviously I was wrong.
When I started this thread I was preparing myself for a wave of flames – but that didn’t happen. Instead you all have proved me wrong by not turning into the fanboys I was expecting. I’ve misjudged the community here, for that I apologize.

zmjjmz
June 17th, 2008, 09:42 PM
Quite the sudden change of heart...

:shock:


EDIT: No offense, but by definition you've admitted to being a troll

sharkinfested
June 17th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Quite the sudden change of heart...

:shock:


EDIT: No offense, but by definition you've admitted to being a troll


I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
I didn't get flamed, instead I got honest well thought out responses.

mr.propre
June 17th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Personal I think your not looking really neutral at this, First of all this is a Linux community, 90% of the users find Linux the best OS fitting there needs.

But unlike real fanboys, most people on this form are open to criticism, I never had comment on the fact that I still use windows in my desktop. For me Linux isn't the perfect OS and nether is Windows. Never got any bad comment about that.

On the other hand, if you are a windows or OSX fanboy and you come here to say that Linux is crap. Don't be surprised to get allot of comments back that Windows and OSX sucks.Its like they say in Belgium: "Wie wind zaait zal storm oogsten".
"Who plants wind, will farm a storm".

Same with this treat I guess.

aysiu
June 17th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Obviously I was wrong.
When I started this thread I was preparing myself for a wave of flames – but that didn’t happen. Instead you all have proved me wrong by not turning into the fanboys I was expecting. I’ve misjudged the community here, for that I apologize.
Not all Linux communities are like this one, granted, but then that's why I've stayed here so long (even though I am now using Xandros on the Eee instead of Ubuntu). The people here are good people for the most part, and there is a welcoming community here.

Can you stir up the flames? Sure. Is it possible to get people riled up and rally to the defense of Ubuntu? Sure. All you have to do is make a thread called Ubuntu sucks and talk about how Ubuntu has no redeeming features, Windows is the best, and ordinary computer users will never be able to use Linux. That'll get the fanboy to come out of anybody.

But if you say, "Hey, I think Linux is great, but people should use whatever works for them. Some people are better suited for Windows, others for Mac, and others for Linux," I don't think you'll find many people here who'll disagree with you.

KiwiNZ
June 17th, 2008, 09:48 PM
I dislike the term fanboy . It is incorrectly fired around in the wrong circumstances in much the same way as the term "FUD" is incorrectly used

Its a buzz word that is used as an insult.

This thread would seem to have done its time.

Murrquan
June 17th, 2008, 09:52 PM
It feels odd to rebut your original post when you've since apologized for it, but there are some things I felt that I ought to point out.


I mean, so many like preaching that they are fighting “The Man” by wiping XP off their systems and loading Linux, then they work feverishly to get their Windows programs to run in Wine.
Please.

I once heard it pointed out that (most) people don't buy Windows because they want to use Windows -- they buy it because they want to run Windows software. Being able to run Windows software without using Windows is a triumph for Linux users, because it allows them to break free from an OS that they don't like.


Hate to burst your bubble, but loading any Linux distro on a computer that had Windows on it doesn’t hurt MicroSoft one bit – you already PAID MicroSoft their licensing fees when you bought that computer! The fact that you don’t use their OS doesn’t mean squat.

Most people who use Ubuntu already had a computer to use it on, and since most computers come with Windows by default of course they had a Windows license. What remains to be seen is what sort of computers they buy afterwards ... some make their own, some go with premade systems by Dell and System76. Others simply don't care about paying for Windows licenses, and just buy the best deal they can get, then put Ubuntu on it afterwards.

I personally bought a refurbished IBM Thinkpad as my last machine, so the license was already paid for by the IT department of whatever corporation was using it.


When I started this thread I was preparing myself for a wave of flames – but that didn’t happen. Instead you all have proved me wrong by not turning into the fanboys I was expecting. I’ve misjudged the community here, for that I apologize.

I'm glad that we've changed your mind about fanboyism on the Ubuntu Forums. *grin*

aysiu
June 17th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Most people who use Ubuntu already had a computer to use it on, and since most computers come with Windows by default of course they had a Windows license. What remains to be seen is what sort of computers they buy afterwards ... some make their own, some go with premade systems by Dell and System76. Others simply don't care about paying for Windows licenses, and just buy the best deal they can get, then put Ubuntu on it afterwards. The last Windows license my wife and I bought was for an eMachines computer that we've since gotten rid of. Our main computers now are her Macbook Pro and my Xandros Eee PC. So, yes, the wiping out of Windows is a symbol of what's to come. Once you shake your dependence on Windows itself (if not Windows software that can be run in Wine), then you are far less likely to purchase a Windows license again in the future.

Of course, all the short-sighted people who say "Ah, the Ubuntu Dell is sometimes a little bit more expensive than the Vista Dell computer. I might as well buy the Vista computer and install Ubuntu on it" don't realize that the message they're really sending to Dell is "We don't care to buy Ubuntu-preinstalled computers. That's a wasted effort. Linux users just want the cheapest computers they can buy. They don't care if Microsoft subsidizes those computers."

David Ostrom
June 17th, 2008, 11:05 PM
Let me say that I'm a big fan of Microsoft Windows, with out them I would have never tried Linux.\\:D/

xaco1234
June 17th, 2008, 11:29 PM
Is it possible to have a frank discussion about Ubuntu on this site?

I ask because it seems that fanboy-ism is so high here that it doesn’t seem possible to actually talk honestly. I thought Apple forums were filled with fanboys but they have NOTHING on this place!

It’s really silly too. I mean, so many like preaching that they are fighting “The Man” by wiping XP off their systems and loading Linux, then they work feverishly to get their Windows programs to run in Wine.
Please.
Hate to burst your bubble, but loading any Linux distro on a computer that had Windows on it doesn’t hurt MicroSoft one bit – you already PAID MicroSoft their licensing fees when you bought that computer! The fact that you don’t use their OS doesn’t mean squat. Loading Linux on a Windows computer means you are financially backing “the big evil empire” just as much as any Windows die-hard power user so you can dispense with the rhetoric.

What difference does it make anyway? I mean, who cares what other OS you use or don’t use? Isn’t the fact that you are here mean that you WANT to use Ubuntu?
Besides, unless you live in the woods, don’t own an automobile, use no electricity, eat only what you can grow – you are supporting some big corporations anyway. At least be honest about it. Linux fanboys remind me of hippies – only without the conviction.

The fanboy-ism is the most off putting thing about this site.

i don't see a problem useing windows, XP have gotten to be a very stabil OS, Vista on the other hand is not, it takes forever to boot up and it even takes forever to shut it down. that's one of the reasons why I use ubuntu and linux. since i use a laptop that i use on school, when i'm out, i need something that fast to boot and fast to turn off. ubuntu is mutch faster there.

i still got windows on my pc, but only since i prefer useing windows when i play games. even if i coud use wine, i still prefer useing windows native.

i still recomend people to try linux, mainly since i like useing it. that's my 5 cents.

Can+~
June 17th, 2008, 11:38 PM
It "hurts" at a long term, if you switched from windows xp to Ubuntu (or any distribution for that matter... or even MacOS) then you won't buy Vista, or Windows 7.

But who cares about hurting microsoft? I personally didn't switch to say "HAHA, SUCK IT MICROSOFT", but because I felt in love with the package manager, python, and other open source goodies.


Obviously I was wrong.
When I started this thread I was preparing myself for a wave of flames – but that didn’t happen. Instead you all have proved me wrong by not turning into the fanboys I was expecting. I’ve misjudged the community here, for that I apologize.

I should've read the whole topic before posting, oh well.

And please, don't EVER compare to the apple fanboy community, that's plain offensive.

LaRoza
June 17th, 2008, 11:42 PM
And please, don't EVER compare to the apple fanboy community, that's plain offensive.

I know a few Apple fanboys. They are OK, as long as you don't talk about anything related to computers and the personal pronoun "I".

I would love to see them in Jamaica.

"I and I blessed I with an iPhone"

20thCenturyBoy
June 18th, 2008, 11:48 AM
I've easily avoided becoming a "fanboy" by remembering that my "allegiance" is not to any one software or technology, but to efficient computing and preference. By definition that turns out to be different for almost every user.

And really, when people use "M$" or "Microsucks", it gets really annoying. You just make yourself sound like an idiot.

melrom
June 18th, 2008, 12:53 PM
Nothing is perfect. Do I prefer linux over windows? Yep. But do I understand that there are many people that prefer windows [or mac] over linux? Yep. It's very close-minded to not acknowledge that.

And it's true what has already been said--if people feel that Ubuntu or linux is being directly attacked, they'll come to its defense. But surely, we do not think Ubuntu is perfect [sorry for clumping the community into a collective 'we']. Even within this community, many people use different distributions. I know tons of people that find Ubuntu constraining. It's really all a matter of preference and comfort level. I love linux, and I love Ubuntu. But that doesn't mean it's without faults. And my computer dual boots XP and Ubuntu. I am not without either. I do have my preference, but I acknowledge that everyone else does too! :)

cespinal
June 18th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Can I go a little offtopic here?

Pleeeez Ubuntu! dont screw up my labbie anytime you do a major update!!! that is all I ask :P

Pasto
June 18th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but loading any Linux distro on a computer that had Windows on it doesn’t hurt MicroSoft one bit – you already PAID MicroSoft their licensing fees when you bought that computer! The fact that you don’t use their OS doesn’t mean squat. Loading Linux on a Windows computer means you are financially backing “the big evil empire” just as much as any Windows die-hard power user so you can dispense with the rhetoric.

Dead wrong.

1) Most people here (where I live) buy computers from technicians who buy the parts and assemble them, that is because the price this way is reduced to a 50%. (of course this is not the case with laptops, but i rarely see someone with a laptop anyways)

2) Microsoft power does not come from joe six pack buying windows, but from him using it. If most people only know windows, what would a company buy/get for their desktops? The thing that EVERYBODY knows how to use, or the better alternative (ubuntu) but unknown to the masses?

graabein
June 18th, 2008, 02:21 PM
"Fanboys", "haters", "FTW", "blahblah ever, blahblah of all time", why can't those self assuring pompous phrases just go away!

:confused:

cespinal
June 18th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Dead wrong.

1) Most people here (where I live) buy computers from technicians who buy the parts and assemble them, that is because the price this way is reduced to a 50%. (of course this is not the case with laptops, but i rarely see someone with a laptop anyways)

2) Microsoft power does not come from joe six pack buying windows, but from him using it. If most people only know windows, what would a company buy/get for their desktops? The thing that EVERYBODY knows how to use, or the better alternative (ubuntu) but unknown to the masses?

windoze :)

It has been a soooo many years tradition... too bad linux could not keep up with it from the beginning...

20thCenturyBoy
June 18th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Dead wrong.

1) Most people here (where I live) buy computers from technicians who buy the parts and assemble them, that is because the price this way is reduced to a 50%. (of course this is not the case with laptops, but i rarely see someone with a laptop anyways)

2) Microsoft power does not come from joe six pack buying windows, but from him using it. If most people only know windows, what would a company buy/get for their desktops? The thing that EVERYBODY knows how to use, or the better alternative (ubuntu) but unknown to the masses?

Pretty disrespectful for a fairly inaccurate response.

1. He didn't mention hardware once in his post. His point is if someone buys a computer with Windows on it (which I'm guessing is nearly 85%) and replaces it with Linux, they've already paid Microsoft.
2. I agree here, but his point still stands.

bonzodog
June 18th, 2008, 06:18 PM
Well, fanboy I may be (not of Ubuntu), and die hard RTFM slackware bred linux zealot, but I have standards, and morals, and ethics.

I have NEVER owned or purchased a copy of MS Windows, and would never pay them a cent. My computer is a home built desktop from separate components, and has run linux from day one. ALL Microsoft products of any sort are banned from my house, as are Sony Electronics and Apple.

Linuxratty
June 18th, 2008, 06:26 PM
Fan boys can be as irritating as xtains.

Chame_Wizard
June 18th, 2008, 06:32 PM
At least 75% of the web servers are running Linux as OS,that's 4,5 billion websites are with FOSS.:lolflag:

Don't forget that 85%(!!)of 500 supercomputers in the world are Linux.Beat that M$:grin:

zmjjmz
June 18th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Seeing as Microsoft licenses per processor, it'd cost as much as the cluster itself to buy all the Windows licenses.

fatality_uk
June 18th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Background to my point
The fact is, that a monopoly in ANY market hurts only one person, the end user. Microsoft were first to market with a product that was, for it's time, very capable. Since then, they have relied on inertia to a great extent and FUD to a lesser extent to maintain a market monopoly.


Hate to burst your bubble, but loading any Linux distro on a computer that had Windows on it doesn’t hurt MicroSoft one bit

Not quite true. A license has been paid. But as more OEM's and large corporations are now realising that Linux is a viable alternative, even if they were to pay for machines that had a license paid, the after sales market, which is a big revenue generator for Microsoft, would dry up very quickly.

Think about an SME which grows quickly over say three years. If they install Windows 2003 with a basic 5 user license and after 2 years they require 25 users, the fee, which currently stands at approx Ł250 per 5 users, would be gone. Then of course support contracts for corporations, licensing, training, 3rd party licenses, all shrink.

Now for Ubuntu/Linux
As distros like Ubuntu take market share away from Microsoft, the market and software in general is actually benefiting from this. Developers have to look at new ways to create and market software and look at how they can support their customer base. Because the fact is that Linux has given many people and businesses, large and small, a choice.

The rise of Linux in the server market, where Microsoft once dominated, is what arguably started the Internet revolution. The availability of low cost servers that could maintained more easily and had a greater degree of stability were a huge factor in provision of lower cost web hosting packages. Many many businesses around today that employ countless people rely directly on Linux and Ubuntu.


What difference does it make anyway? I mean, who cares what other OS you use or don’t use? Isn’t the fact that you are here mean that you WANT to use Ubuntu?

This does somewhat contradict your earlier remark. It matters both on an individual level and a corporate level.

Look for instance at Asus and it's runaway success, the eeepc. This machine, while still built to a budget, was possible in no small part to Linux. The addition of an XP license fee would have made the cost comparison to a larger laptop which are available at approx Ł299 prohibitive.

When released, Ł215 was a perfect price point for that product. Only possible with Linux. And coming back to my opening point, Microsoft are now heavily courting Asus, MSI and many other UMPC manufacturers in order to ensure that an XP option is available.

On a personal level, I enjoy the experience that Ubuntu gives me. I am more productive using FOSS and I can rely on Linux/Ubuntu to act as it should, an OS. Not getting in the way of work or play, just sitting in the background, doing it's job, quietly and effectively.