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tompickles
June 9th, 2008, 08:27 AM
What do we Ubuntu Users think to openSUSE 11.0 then?! By the looks of the screen shots, I'm deffinatly going to download the GNOME edition (GNOME over KDE FTW! :P)
What about you all?

ingvildr
June 9th, 2008, 10:28 AM
Its a good distro the only thing stopping me using it more often was the god awful package management, but that all seems to be solved in 11 so i'm quite optimistic.

Also GTK YaST has got some nice new improvements such as reduced duplication of modules and a lot nicer GUI package manager, so yea roll on June 19th.

tompickles
June 9th, 2008, 11:11 AM
ingvildr - would you use the KDE or GNOME version?

ghindo
June 9th, 2008, 11:38 AM
Its a good distro the only thing stopping me using it more often was the god awful package management, but that all seems to be solved in 11 so i'm quite optimistic.

Also GTK YaST has got some nice new improvements such as reduced duplication of modules and a lot nicer GUI package manager, so yea roll on June 19th.+1

openSUSE 10.3 also took forever for me to install versus almost any other distro, so hopefully openSUSE 11 will be a bit faster.

ingvildr
June 9th, 2008, 11:39 AM
Erm, I would probably use GNOME, since personally kde4 is not ready for me yet, when kde4.1 and opensuse 11.1 get released I may switch over.

ibutho
June 9th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I mainly an openSUSE user. I've been running the RC for the last couple of weeks and I think its one of their best releases ever. I am really impressed with the improvements in package management. For those that complain that openSUSE has slow package management tools, they need to give this release a try. The default KDE4 and GNOME versions look very slick.

RedDwarf
June 9th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Erm, I would probably use GNOME, since personally kde4 is not ready for me yet, when kde4.1 and opensuse 11.1 get released I may switch over.
Well, I will use openSUSE 11.0 with KDE 3.5.9. It's available in the DVD...

quickshade
June 9th, 2008, 06:14 PM
I've been using it since the alpha versions, and it's great. The speed is amazing. Package management is good, the artwork looks great and it offers a very good amount of features that make it a good release. For me KDE4 is the answer to windows. It's finally got me switching over to just using VMware windows. All I really need windows for now is sometimes office products and to sync my zune, which I hope is cracked soon. 4.1 offers the functionality that I need, So I can't wait to upgrade that when it's final, but I already run it on my laptop. Overall it's a great distro and should turn out to be amazing.

MONODA
June 9th, 2008, 06:26 PM
i will definately try this and install it. I will use the KDE version since I havent liked how OpenSuSE has done GNOME in the past. I am looking forward to the speed in the package management and hope it installs fsater than 10.3 which took FOREVER to install.

omi291
June 9th, 2008, 06:31 PM
I've heard a lot of good things about openSUSE, and I plan on trying it too...with GNOME of course :)

colemana
June 9th, 2008, 07:00 PM
openSUSE is great, it's right up there as one of my favorite distros, and 11 looks and feels fantastic so far.

The KDE4 version is very nice, and looks great. I'm more of a GNOME fan myself, and the GNOME version is fantastic too. If I wasn't so in love with Ubuntu I'd probably use openSUSE.

Just my two cents.

tompickles
June 9th, 2008, 10:51 PM
well - just downloaded the RC1 GNOME live cd to give that a shot - will try it in a VM for the time being - cds are precious in this house!

67GTA
June 10th, 2008, 12:50 AM
Well, I will use openSUSE 11.0 with KDE 3.5.9. It's available in the DVD...

+1 I'm waiting for the final DVD so I can get KDE 3.5.9. I won't switch to KDE4 the way it is being developed. I guess this will be the last version of KDE I ever install. KDE 3 probably won't be an option for future releases. That is kind of sad. I hate what plasma has done to the desktop.

ingvildr
June 10th, 2008, 06:56 AM
OpenSUSE 11 RC2plus has just been released for last minute testing, and it seems a lot of last minute polish has happened since both desktops look awesome.

Link to announcement/download (http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2008-06/msg00376.html)

RedDwarf
June 10th, 2008, 02:31 PM
will try it in a VM for the time being - cds are precious in this house!
I test the betas from the DVD ISO... but without burning the ISO at all.
http://en.opensuse.org/Linuxrc


$ tail -n 4 /boot/grub/menu.lst
title Install
root (hd0,5)
kernel /boot/inst-linux install=hd:/openSUSE-11.0-RC1-DVD-x86_64.iso
initrd /boot/inst-initrd

atoponce
June 11th, 2008, 12:21 AM
Have they finally implemented user private groups, or are they still putting all of their users under the "users" group with a 022 umask? I'm looking forward to the release of 11 on the 19th, and plan on testing extensively.

cardinals_fan
June 11th, 2008, 06:08 PM
+1 I'm waiting for the final DVD so I can get KDE 3.5.9. I won't switch to KDE4 the way it is being developed. I guess this will be the last version of KDE I ever install. KDE 3 probably won't be an option for future releases. That is kind of sad. I hate what plasma has done to the desktop.
+2

I love KDE, and I'm really sad to see what's happened with KDE 4. I consider widgets/gadgets/desklets/whatever to be totally useless and far too resource-heavy. A gadget is OK for something which has no user input (think graphics-heavy conky), but using one like a regular app is just stupid.

67GTA
June 11th, 2008, 06:24 PM
I got so pissed last week, I wanted to strangle someone. I was responding to a blog about KDE4. Most people that really like it are either straight from Microsoft, or have come from Gnome because they think it just "looks" cool. The majority of the hardcore KDE users I've talked to just can't seem to warm up to plasma. Plasma should have been an option. I was told twice that I could have my messy "old school" desktop by opening the desktop folder and making it cover the screen. Then I could set my background inside that folder. How funny is that?

Incense
June 11th, 2008, 06:39 PM
I have openSUSE 11 KDE 4 running on one of my machines. Just the improved package management alone make openSUSE 11 worth it. It really is fantastic. YaST runs like it should, and they have a beautiful stable KDE 4 setup. It's a great distro. Even upgrading from 10.3 was painless.

Also, I personally really like KDE 4 and plasma. I'm running Kubuntu Hardy with 4.1b on my notebook, and it's a great experience. I would run openSUSE 11 on my notebook, but I can't seem to get 4.1 working, and I really like it over 4.0.4 on 11.

67GTA
June 11th, 2008, 06:49 PM
I have openSUSE 11 KDE 4 running on one of my machines. Just the improved package management alone make openSUSE 11 worth it. It really is fantastic. YaST runs like it should, and they have a beautiful stable KDE 4 setup. It's a great distro. Even upgrading from 10.3 was painless.

Also, I personally really like KDE 4 and plasma. I'm running Kubuntu Hardy with 4.1b on my notebook, and it's a great experience. I would run openSUSE 11 on my notebook, but I can't seem to get 4.1 working, and I really like it over 4.0.4 on 11.

Not trying to be an ahole, just asking. Did you use desktop icons very much in KDE3? That seems to be the underlying argument about people liking/not liking KDE4. If you used desktop icons extensively in KDE3, you are left out in the cold. There just doesn't seem to be any acceptable workarounds in KDE4 to this with plasma controlling the desktop.

Incense
June 11th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Not trying to be an ahole, just asking. Did you use desktop icons very much in KDE3? That seems to be the underlying argument about people liking/not liking KDE4. If you used desktop icons extensively in KDE3, you are left out in the cold. There just doesn't seem to be any acceptable workarounds in KDE4 to this with plasma controlling the desktop.

I use the folder view widget to display my documents directory on my desktop. Then Ctrl+F12 to bring all my widgets to the top, and select whatever I want. For me, that works better then desktop icons since I don't have to show desktop or minimize all to access them. I think that's the current work around. But no, I didn't do much with my desktop icons in the past. I just forget about anything I put on my desktop to be honest. The folder view works nice for me, because I have quick access to my documents (or whatever folder you select, even your desktop) at all times.

RedDwarf
June 11th, 2008, 07:28 PM
I would run openSUSE 11 on my notebook, but I can't seem to get 4.1 working, and I really like it over 4.0.4 on 11.
Are you using KDE:KDE4:UNSTABLE packages? Should not be any problem in making them work.

I myself haven't big problems with KDE4. I will use KDE3 with openSUSE 11.0 just because I saw too much half-working things in the 11.0 RC1 KDE4 version. When KDE 4.1 is released perhaps I will update, and very probably I will use KDE4 with openSUSE 11.1.

Incense
June 11th, 2008, 07:44 PM
Are you using KDE:KDE4:UNSTABLE packages? Should not be any problem in making them work.

I myself haven't big problems with KDE4. I will use KDE3 with openSUSE 11.0 just because I saw too much half-working things in the 11.0 RC1 KDE4 version. When KDE 4.1 is released perhaps I will update, and very probably I will use KDE4 with openSUSE 11.1.

Yeah, I'm just getting a lot of conflicts with 4.0.4 already installed. I tried to work through them, and ended up with a broken KDE 4 install. I found the repair function of the DVD worked very well to get me back up and running, and just didn't bother with it again.

cardinals_fan
June 11th, 2008, 09:11 PM
Not trying to be an ahole, just asking. Did you use desktop icons very much in KDE3? That seems to be the underlying argument about people liking/not liking KDE4. If you used desktop icons extensively in KDE3, you are left out in the cold. There just doesn't seem to be any acceptable workarounds in KDE4 to this with plasma controlling the desktop.
Not for me. I despise desktop icons (I never use them) and Plasma irritates me. I don't WANT widgets!

67GTA
June 12th, 2008, 01:29 AM
I just don't see any way to resolve this for everybody unless plasma can be turned off. They have built the desktop on top of it, so that won't happen. Even if there are enough complaints, I don't see them redesigning everything. I'm becoming pretty comfortable with Mint Gnome while waiting for openSUSE 11.:)

Growbag
June 12th, 2008, 07:37 AM
Can't you add an icon from the "add widgets" menu?

I thought you could, and I'm sure I've done it before (I'm not in 4 at the mo' to try it).

There is also a setting to "turn off desktop icons" somewhere, again, I'm sure I've seen it somewhere.

Here is an older screenie of early KDE4 with lots of desktop icons (see attached).

I liked it, but unfortunately KDE4 has a nasty habit of re-arranging everything on each login, and the taskbar and systray never stay consistent!

They keep resizing and moving around in all sorts of silly directions :(.

Sad really!

techmarks
June 13th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Does Suse 11.0 have the acpi disabled in the kernel
like the 10.3 did??

It made my computer all crazy and there was no way
to enable acpi, very bad idea to just
disable it in the kernal like that.

That's why I gave up on Suse,
I still can't believe they do that.

RedDwarf
June 13th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Does Suse 11.0 have the acpi disabled in the kernel
No.

like the 10.3 did??
10.3 neither did.


It made my computer all crazy
Normally is the other way. Enabled *bad* ACPI makes computers crazy.


and there was no way to enable acpi
ACPI is enabled by default.


very bad idea to just disable it in the kernal like that.
*Would* had been a very bad idea, sure. But they didn't.


That's why I gave up on Suse
Not really a good cause.


I still can't believe they do that.
Nobody can. They didn't.



$ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep ACPI
CONFIG_X86_64_ACPI_NUMA=y
# ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) Support
CONFIG_ACPI=y
CONFIG_ACPI_SLEEP=y
CONFIG_ACPI_SLEEP_PROC_FS=y
CONFIG_ACPI_SLEEP_PROC_SLEEP=y
CONFIG_ACPI_PROCFS=y
CONFIG_ACPI_AC=m
CONFIG_ACPI_BATTERY=m
CONFIG_ACPI_BUTTON=m
CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO=m
CONFIG_ACPI_FAN=m
CONFIG_ACPI_DOCK=m
CONFIG_ACPI_BAY=m
CONFIG_ACPI_PROCESSOR=m
CONFIG_ACPI_HOTPLUG_CPU=y
CONFIG_ACPI_THERMAL=m
CONFIG_ACPI_NUMA=y
# CONFIG_ACPI_ASUS is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_TOSHIBA=m
# CONFIG_ACPI_CUSTOM_DSDT is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_CUSTOM_DSDT_INITRD=y
CONFIG_ACPI_BLACKLIST_YEAR=0
CONFIG_ACPI_DEBUG=y
# CONFIG_ACPI_DEBUG_FUNC_TRACE is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_EC=y
CONFIG_ACPI_POWER=y
CONFIG_ACPI_SYSTEM=y
CONFIG_ACPI_CONTAINER=m
CONFIG_ACPI_SBS=m
CONFIG_X86_POWERNOW_K8_ACPI=y
CONFIG_X86_ACPI_CPUFREQ=m
# CONFIG_X86_ACPI_CPUFREQ_PROC_INTF is not set
CONFIG_HOTPLUG_PCI_ACPI=m
CONFIG_HOTPLUG_PCI_ACPI_IBM=m
CONFIG_PNPACPI=y
CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI=m
# CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_DEBUG is not set
CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_BAY=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEACPI=y
CONFIG_ATA_ACPI=y


Sorry, but it's the first time I see someone so upset about something that never happened.

calibre97
June 13th, 2008, 07:32 PM
I've gotten Kubuntu 8.04 stable with KDE 3.x. I tried KDE 4 for awhile but it went sort of wonky on me. Not completely unusable, but not great. I tried Ubuntu but couldn't ever get everything working and I just don't like Gnome. KDE it is and I can't wait for 4.1. I'm downloading openSUSE 11 RC1 right now and will try it out. I currently dual-boot XP MCE and Kubuntu on my laptop and I have an extra partition for trying something else. I liked what I saw from the Fedora Core 9 Live CD, but I don't think I'll go that route. openSUSE it is.
------------------
HP Pavilion dv5035nr, 1.5GB RAM, ATI R200

lxuser2008-X
June 14th, 2008, 03:14 AM
+1

openSUSE 10.3 also took forever for me to install versus almost any other distro, so hopefully openSUSE 11 will be a bit faster.

Allow me to express my opinion (I have some experience using/installing openSUSE 10.2/10.3 and 11rc1 + a number of other distros - Ubuntu/Kubuntu, Mandriva, Fedora, etc) on the "it takes forever to install" MYTH. Firstly, A LIVE CD INSTALL IS ALWAYS MUCH FASTER than a traditional install method and the two should NEVER BE COMPARED! Secondly, 10.3 was the first openSUSE edition to come out with the Live-CD install and speed difference for install time between it and any other distro would be negligible, if any, IMHO.


FYI: OpenSUSE 11.0 can also be installed via text mode directly from the Live CD. Typing init 3 at the boot prompt will boot the OS in console mode (CLI), becoming root by typing (at console bash prompt) su - and either directly invoking the Live Installer (by command: yast2 live-installer) or indirectly, via the yast2 text/console mode utilities, by typing yast or yast2 and then selecting the Live Installer from the "Miscellaneous" category options. This method may be useful on older machines (especially low memory ones- 256 to 512 MB) which don't take too kindly to "Live CDs" (of any distro) but work OK once installed.

raul_
June 14th, 2008, 03:17 AM
I don't see the point in using Suse with Gnome over KDE. OpenSuse is known to be THE Kde distro ( not oficially, just better support ).

I also heard good things about hardware support but it didn't recognizes my girlfriends new Ati radeon xpress

RedDwarf
June 14th, 2008, 08:46 AM
Allow me to express my opinion (I have some experience using/installing openSUSE 10.2/10.3 and 11rc1 + a number of other distros - Ubuntu/Kubuntu, Mandriva, Fedora, etc) on the "it takes forever to install" MYTH. Firstly, A LIVE CD INSTALL IS ALWAYS MUCH FASTER than a traditional install method and the two should NEVER BE COMPARED! Secondly, 10.3 was the first openSUSE edition to come out with the Live-CD install and speed difference for install time between it and any other distro would be negligible, if any, IMHO.
True. But for people like me that prefer the DVD "classic" install there is also a speed improvement. Now the basic system is installed through images, and after that the rest of the system in installed through normal RPM installation.


I also heard good things about hardware support but it didn't recognizes my girlfriends new Ati radeon xpress
Those "distro X has good/bad hardware support" don't mean too much.

Hardware support is, in big part, a kernel issue. If the kernel version shipped with a release has support for your hardware great, if the kernel hasn't support for it sorry.

Does X.org supports the "new Ati radeon xpress"? If isn't the case you need the ATI binary driver. And in this situation there are two kind of distributions, the ones that support binary-only drivers and the ones that don't. openSUSE, like Fedora, is in the group of distro that don't support binary-only drivers.

Forget about the binary-only drivers and all distros have the same hardware support. Could be some glitches that need some udev config tweaks or something, but if your hardware needs such a tweak just open a bug report and in two days a fix will be released that will make your hardware supported in ALL future versions of such distro.

raul_
June 14th, 2008, 09:33 AM
True. But for people like me that prefer the DVD "classic" install there is also a speed improvement. Now the basic system is installed through images, and after that the rest of the system in installed through normal RPM installation.


Those "distro X has good/bad hardware support" don't mean too much.

Hardware support is, in big part, a kernel issue. If the kernel version shipped with a release has support for your hardware great, if the kernel hasn't support for it sorry.

Does X.org supports the "new Ati radeon xpress"? If isn't the case you need the ATI binary driver. And in this situation there are two kind of distributions, the ones that support binary-only drivers and the ones that don't. openSUSE, like Fedora, is in the group of distro that don't support binary-only drivers.

Forget about the binary-only drivers and all distros have the same hardware support. Could be some glitches that need some udev config tweaks or something, but if your hardware needs such a tweak just open a bug report and in two days a fix will be released that will make your hardware supported in ALL future versions of such distro.

Sorry, I meant out of the box hardware detection/support -> having a big numbers of drivers/modules included.

And yes, X.Org does support the driver.

neoAnderson
June 14th, 2008, 09:54 AM
I don't think I would use it... at least not right now. I used openSUSE 10.2 before I switched to Ubuntu, but I had to switch because on my HP dv6375us Pavilion openSUSE 10.2 refused to behave. No matter how much I tried I could not zero in on the problem - I just kept getting random freezes. Ever since I switched to Ubuntu - my laptop has been running smooth as a breeze. I started with Gutsy and now I am having fun with Hardy. If you do research in any non-Operating-system related field, it is not affordable to spend a lot of trying to make the distro work, in my humble opinion.

Growbag
June 14th, 2008, 01:31 PM
I've been running openSUSE 10.3 on my HP dv6645 since last Christmas, and it is the most amazingly stable and maintenance free distro I have ever used.

I haven't even had to re-install it either, something that had to be done a lot with Ubuntu 7.10 from dodgy updates.

A bit boring really :D.

I've been trying 11rc1 on an external hard drive, and apart from the hotkeys needing to be assigned manually, everything works perfectly.

The best thing is that the fwcutter thing actually works for the wireless too, so no more messing around with ndiswrapper.

Even the built in webcam works out of the box.

danbuter
June 14th, 2008, 01:58 PM
I'll definately give it a whirl, using KDE 3.5.9.

Playa1313
June 15th, 2008, 06:51 AM
I really love Ubuntu and i have tried OpenSUSE 11. I am now having a hard time deciding which i love more. At the moment, OpenSUSE is not installed, but when that final image becomes available, I'm definitely making room! :)

OpenSUSE 11 is outstanding, I would not remotely compare it to the OpenSUSE 10.X's. If you don't believe me, download the final release and virtual machine it!

RedDwarf
June 15th, 2008, 04:13 PM
At the moment, OpenSUSE is not installed, but when that final image becomes available, I'm definitely making room! :)
You can already download it from http://linuxtracker.org
The torrent includes MD5 and SHA1 hashes signed with Stephan Kulow (openSUSE’s Project Manager) gpg key, so you can verify ISOs aren't false.

cardinals_fan
June 15th, 2008, 10:33 PM
Is there any OpenSUSE minimal (command line) install? Can the network install be used for this purpose?

No?

Fatec
June 16th, 2008, 04:32 AM
You can already download it from http://linuxtracker.org
The torrent includes MD5 and SHA1 hashes signed with Stephan Kulow (openSUSE’s Project Manager) gpg key, so you can verify ISOs aren't false.

yep....SLOW as hell though.

Bah...100KB/s downloading....Uploading at 1.7MB/s...

Vince4Amy
June 16th, 2008, 09:56 AM
I can't wait until the release of 11.0. I've tried the Release Candidates and I'm thinking of phasing out remaining XP machines on my home network because of the stability and features which OpenSUSE has to offer.

some-guy
June 16th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Sorry, I meant out of the box hardware detection/support -> having a big numbers of drivers/modules included.

And yes, X.Org does support the driver.
Nope, X.org's radeon never had proper support for Xpress cards, until recently (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjQ2MA), which isn't in any Mesa release yet, so your stuck with VESA or fglrx

Suse's old packaging system was extremely slow, now it is extremely fast, they also made another large change, switching from bzip compression to LZMA, LZMA has faster decompression, and make smaller RPMs

Hope that sorts a few things out :)

raul_
June 16th, 2008, 10:42 PM
Nope, X.org's radeon never had proper support for Xpress cards, until recently (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjQ2MA), which isn't in any Mesa release yet, so your stuck with VESA or fglrx

Suse's old packaging system was extremely slow, now it is extremely fast, they also made another large change, switching from bzip compression to LZMA, LZMA has faster decompression, and make smaller RPMs

Hope that sorts a few things out :)

I used the radeonhd drivers. They're still experimental, so I don't blame the suse developers. You can't blame linux developers for lack of hardware support anyway.

ingvildr
June 17th, 2008, 01:36 PM
I don't see the point in using Suse with Gnome over KDE. OpenSuse is known to be THE Kde distro ( not oficially, just better support ).

I use OpenSUSE with gnome because it rocks, novell make a lot of nice gnome apps and tweaks that i love. For example the gnome-main-menu, f-spot, banshee, evolution, compiz, YaST-gtk2 etc. For me OpenSUSE is the only distro that puts equal amounts of effort into both Gnome and KDE.

SteveHillier
June 17th, 2008, 01:46 PM
+1

openSUSE 10.3 also took forever for me to install versus almost any other distro, so hopefully openSUSE 11 will be a bit faster.

I could not get 10.3 to install properly. I currently have an open bug report on the Novell forum.

Should I risk another install or shall I just get on with Ubuntu which seems to do everything I need and Fedora which I have had to run with for my web server.

I don't know that I can be hacked to bother with V11.

raul_
June 18th, 2008, 01:43 AM
I use OpenSUSE with gnome because it rocks, novell make a lot of nice gnome apps and tweaks that i love. For example the gnome-main-menu, f-spot, banshee, evolution, compiz, YaST-gtk2 etc. For me OpenSUSE is the only distro that puts equal amounts of effort into both Gnome and KDE.

Besides Yast-gtk2 I don't think any of those was made by Novell :)

But if you like it better than Ubuntu, then I'll take your word. I don't use none of them, so I can't say much

doog519
June 18th, 2008, 03:16 AM
This Suse release looks to be a great release. It would appear they they have done an awesome job.
It would also seem that ATI/AMD is making some improvement with drivers.
Some new drivers has come out for ATI and Nvidia this week.
And the ATI/Nvidia drivers have now been added to the 11.0 repositories.

If you like trying different distro's I think this release is worth a try.

dca
June 18th, 2008, 06:24 PM
F-Spot and Banshee (don't quote me) are Mono apps which has a huge (.NET) controversy around it. No big deal to me, still good apps...

RedDwarf
June 18th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Besides Yast-gtk2 I don't think any of those was made by Novell :)
But that though was before or after a research of the topic? Research about things can make you change mind... to a more correct one.

With a quick research (I'm not really interested in Gnome apps):
- David Reveman created Xgl and compiz. Not sure about how the development is now managed.
- F-Spot, Banshee and Evolution looks like are all managed by Ximian people. Ximian was bought by Novell... but Evolution at least was started previously to Novell buy.
- gnome-main-menu is mantained by Jim Krehl, Scott Reeves and Federico Mena-Quintero. All from Novell/Ximian.

I would put links. But this information is easy found through google/wikipedia. The only one that can be more difficult is gnome-main-menu, so: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-main-menu/trunk/MAINTAINERS?revision=455&view=markup

Fatec
June 18th, 2008, 11:22 PM
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/18/open_suse_11_review/

nice review here :)

raul_
June 19th, 2008, 01:50 AM
http://www.novell.com/products/

This was my research. In fact, Evolution is listed, I missed that one. Anyway, as I said before, I'll take your word for it, because since I don't use it, I can't really talk about it.

some-guy
June 19th, 2008, 02:39 AM
With a quick research (I'm not really interested in Gnome apps):
- David Reveman created Xgl and compiz. Not sure about how the development is now managed.
- F-Spot, Banshee and Evolution looks like are all managed by Ximian people. Ximian was bought by Novell... but Evolution at least was started previously to Novell buy.
- gnome-main-menu is mantained by Jim Krehl, Scott Reeves and Federico Mena-Quintero. All from Novell/Ximian.

I would put links. But this information is easy found through google/wikipedia. The only one that can be more difficult is gnome-main-menu, so: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-main-menu/trunk/MAINTAINERS?revision=455&view=markup
XGL/Compiz were made by david reveman, but originally under novell's supervision/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, and novell indeed has the copyrights on compiz
Now development is done on freedesktop git, main contributors are davidr, maniac, and onestone

gnome-main-menu is AFAIK, only on opensuse and SLE, AFAIK, the sources are available, it's just that nobody wants it

Fatec
June 19th, 2008, 02:37 PM
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/iso/dvd/

:):):):)

imagecko
June 19th, 2008, 04:16 PM
I have the RC1-cd downloaded.. Is it possible to upgrade it to the final release or do I have to download the new ISO?

some-guy
June 19th, 2008, 05:06 PM
I have the RC1-cd downloaded.. Is it possible to upgrade it to the final release or do I have to download the new ISO?
Make sure the repo's point to 11, then run (as root) 'zypper dup' or 'zypper dist-upgrade'

Perpetual
June 19th, 2008, 06:02 PM
I have been using openSUSE since 11RC1 and have liked it a lot. Downloaded the DVD this morning and will do a clean install. I have basically stopped using Ubuntu as I have found that I prefer openSUSE right now.

vishzilla
June 19th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Is the torrent tracker responding? The download is stalled at the moment

Fatec
June 19th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Is the torrent tracker responding? The download is stalled at the moment

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/iso/

Just download through http...

Eclipse.
June 19th, 2008, 06:51 PM
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/iso/

Just download through http...

Torrents will be faster and they reduce the load on the server.

DO55
June 19th, 2008, 07:04 PM
dose the DVD contain live OS ?

Fatec
June 19th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Torrents will be faster and they reduce the load on the server.

I downloaded the DVD iso from http at 4.7MB/S

try geting that from torrents....:lolflag:

karellen
June 19th, 2008, 08:03 PM
I'm downloading the KDE LiveCD right now :popcorn:

Daggo
June 19th, 2008, 08:07 PM
oooooh!
*downloading*

damis648
June 19th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Downloading now! I can't wait... I like gnome for its simplicity and applications, but KDE4 seems more professional. I am going to have to see... i will probably install it alongside Ubuntu with both KDE4 and GNOME.

Antman
June 19th, 2008, 10:26 PM
Burning the DVD now. Now I just have to see if I want to try out Gnome, KDE4 or Good Ole' KDE3.5:KS

CM Xtasy
June 19th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Burning the DVD now. Now I just have to see if I want to try out Gnome, KDE4 or Good Ole' KDE3.5:KS

lol same here. Is KDE4 or KDE3.5.9 faster than the other? I only have Intel GMA950 so my laptop uses more RAM for graphics (2gb RAM).

Antman
June 19th, 2008, 11:08 PM
lol same here. Is KDE4 or KDE3.5.9 faster than the other? I only have Intel GMA950 so my laptop uses more RAM for graphics (2gb RAM).
I think I remember reading that KDE4 is supposed to be faster than KDE3.5.9. My worry is whether or not KDE4 is ready for a production machine in its current state. I know the openSUSE team has really tweaked it, so I guess I'll find out later tonight. I'll put KDE4 and Gnome on my test machine and take it for a spin for awhile.

damis648
June 19th, 2008, 11:14 PM
Argh download in slow... but I am downloading i386 and x86_64 so I guess that's why... I am excited to see KDE4 in action! Just wondering, if OpenSUSE becomes my (primary?) OS... can you guys out here help me out? I love this forum and the people here.

Antman
June 19th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Argh download in slow... but I am downloading i386 and x86_64 so I guess that's why... I am excited to see KDE4 in action! Just wondering, if OpenSUSE becomes my (primary?) OS... can you guys out here help me out? I love this forum and the people here.
This forum tends to be multi-distro, so I'm sure help is just around the corner, but the opensuse forums (http://forums.opensuse.org/) are nice too IMO.

some-guy
June 20th, 2008, 12:07 AM
dose the DVD contain live OS ?
No, but it has KDE3, KDE4, Gnome, and Xfce, if it was live, that would biased towards a DE ;)

Anzan
June 20th, 2008, 12:09 AM
EULA:

"openSUSE-OSS 11.0
Novell Software License Agreement

PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY. BY INSTALLING OR OTHERWISE USING THE
SOFTWARE (INCLUDING ITS COMPONENTS), YOU AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS
AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THESE TERMS, DO NOT DOWNLOAD, INSTALL OR
USE THE SOFTWARE.

RIGHTS AND LICENSES

This Novell Software License Agreement ("Agreement") is a legal agreement
between You (an entity or a person) and Novell, Inc. ("Novell") with respect
to the software product identified in the title of this Agreement, media (if
any) and accompanying documentation (collectively the "Software").

The Software is a modular operating system comprised of numerous components
that may be accompanied by separate license terms. The Software is a
collective work of Novell; although Novell does not own the copyright to
every component of the Software, Novell owns the collective work copyright
for the Software. Most of the components are open source packages, and most
of the components are neither developed nor owned by Novell. Your license
rights with respect to individual components accompanied by separate license
terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this agreement shall restrict,
limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You may have, or
conditions to which You may be subject, under such license terms; however,
if You distribute copies of any component independent of the Software, You
must remove all Novell trademarks, trade dress, and logos from each copy.

You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software within your
Organization. With respect to any version containing the letters "OSS" in
the product name, whereby the product name is
defined in first line of this Agreement, You
may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your
organization. You may make and distribute unlimited modified copies outside
Your organization provided You remove all Novell trademarks, trade dress,
and logos from each modified copy of the Software. The term "Organization"
means a legal entity, excluding subsidiaries and affiliates with a separate
existence for tax purposes or for legal personality purposes. An example of
an Organization in the private sector would be a corporation, partnership,
or trust, excluding any subsidiaries or affiliates of the organization with
a separate tax identification number or company registration number. In the
public sector, an example of Organization would be a specific government
body or local government authority.

While the license terms for a component may authorize You to distribute the
component, You may not use any Novell marks (e.g., SUSE and SUSE LINUX) in
distributing the component, whether or not the component contains Novell
marks.

OTHER LICENSE TERMS AND RESTRICTIONS

The Software is protected by the copyright laws and treaties of the United
States ("U.S.") and other countries and is subject to theterms of this
Agreement. The Software is licensed to You, not sold.

The Software may be bundled with other software programs ("Bundled
Programs"). Your license rights with respect to Bundled Programs accompanied
by separate license terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this
Agreement shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or
obligations You may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under
such license terms.

Novell reserves all rights not expressly granted to You. You may not: (1)
reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software except and only to
the extent it is expressly permitted by applicable law or the license terms
accompanying a component of the Software; or (2) transfer the Software or
Your license rights under this Agreement, in whole or in part.

MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT

Novell has no obligation to provide maintenance or support for the Software.

OWNERSHIP RIGHTS

No title to or ownership of the Software is transferred to You. Novell
and/or its licensors owns and retains all title and ownership of all
intellectual property rights in the Software, including any adaptations or
copies. You acquire only a license to use the Software.

LIMITED WARRANTY

For ninety (90) days from Your date of purchase, Novell warrants that (1)
any media on which the Software is delivered is free from physical defects;
and (2) the Software will substantially conform to the documentation
accompanying the Software. If the defective items are returned to Novell or
if You report the nonconformity to Novell within ninety (90) days from the
date of purchase, Novell will at its sole discretion either resolve the
nonconformity or refund the license fees You paid for the Software. Any
misuse or unauthorized modification of the Software voids this warranty. THE
FOREGOING WARRANTY IS YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY AND IS IN LIEU OF ALL
OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. (The foregoing warranty does not apply
to Software provided free of charge. SUCH SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS"
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND.)

THE SOFTWARE IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED OR INTENDED FOR USE OR
DISTRIBUTION WITH ON-LINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS
REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR
FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION, COMMUNICATION, OR CONTROL SYSTEMS, DIRECT
LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, WEAPONS SYSTEMS, OR OTHER USES IN WHICH FAILURE OF
THE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE
PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.

THE SOFTWARE IS ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH CERTAIN COMPUTERS AND OPERATING
SYSTEMS. THE SOFTWARE IS NOT WARRANTED FOR NON-COMPATIBLE SYSTEMS. Call
Novell or Your dealer for information about compatibility.

Non-Novell Products. The Software may include or be bundled with hardware or
other software programs licensed or sold by a licensor other than Novell.
NOVELL DOES NOT WARRANT NON-NOVELL PRODUCTS. ANY SUCH PRODUCTS ARE PROVIDED
ON AN "AS IS" BASIS. ANY WARRANTY SERVICE FOR NON-NOVELL PRODUCTS IS
PROVIDED BY THE PRODUCT LICENSOR IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE APPLICABLE LICENSOR
WARRANTY.

EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE RESTRICTED BY LAW, NOVELL DISCLAIMS AND EXCLUDES ANY AND
ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES INCLUDING ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, TITLE,
NON-INFRINGEMENT, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. NOVELL MAKES NO
WARRANTY, REPRESENTATION OR PROMISE NOT EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS LIMITED
WARRANTY. NOVELL DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL SATISFY YOUR
REQUIREMENTS OR THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED.
Some jurisdictions do not allow certain disclaimers and limitations of
warranties, so portions of the above limitations may not apply to You. This
limited warranty gives You specific rights and You may also have other
rights which vary from state to state.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

(a) Consequential Losses. NEITHER NOVELL NOR ANY OF ITS LICENSORS,
SUBSIDIARIES, OR EMPLOYEES WILL IN ANY CASE BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL,
INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, TORT, ECONOMIC OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES
ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, INCLUDING
WITHOUT LIMITATION LOSS OF PROFITS, BUSINESS OR DATA, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF THOSE DAMAGES.

(b) Direct Damages. IN NO EVENT WILL NOVELL'S AGGREGATE LIABILITY FOR DIRECT
DAMAGES TO PROPERTY OR PERSON (WHETHER IN ONE INSTANCE OR A SERIES OF
INSTANCES) EXCEED 1.25 TIMES THE AMOUNT PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE OUT OF
WHICH SUCH CLAIM AROSE [OR $50 (U.S.) IF YOU RECEIVED THE SOFTWARE FREE OF
CHARGE]. The above exclusions and limitations will not apply to claims
relating to death or personal injury. In those jurisdictions that do not
allow the exclusion or limitation of damages, Novell's liability shall be
limited or excluded to the maximum extent allowed within those
jurisdictions.

GENERAL TERMS

Term. This Agreement becomes effective on the date You legally acquire the
Software and will automatically terminate if You breach any of its terms.
Upon termination of this Agreement, You must destroy the original and all
copies of the Software or return them to Novell and delete the Software from
Your systems

Benchmark Testing. This benchmark testing restriction applies to You if You
are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on the Software at
the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor. You may not, without
Novell's prior written consent not to be unreasonably withheld, publish or
disclose to any third party the results of any benchmark test of the
Software. If You are a vendor of products that are functionally similar to
or compete with the Software ("Similar Products"), or are acting on behalf
of such a vendor, and You publish or disclose benchmark information on the
Software in violation of this restriction, then notwithstanding anything to
the contrary in the Similar Product's end user license agreement, and in
addition to any other remedies Novell may have, Novell shall have the right
to perform enchmark testing on Similar Products and to disclose and publish
that benchmark information and You hereby represent that You have authority
to grant such right to Novell.

Transfer. This Agreement may not be transferred or assigned without the
prior written approval of Novell.

Law and Jurisdiction. This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State
of Utah, U.S. Any action at law relating to this Agreement may only be
brought before the courts of competent jurisdiction of the State of Utah.
If, however, Your country of principal residence is a member state of the
European Union or the European Free Trade Association, this Agreement is
governed by the laws of that country, and any action at law may only be
brought before a court of competent jurisdiction of that country.

Entire Agreement. This Agreement and the Upgrade/Additive Agreement (if
applicable) sets forth the entire understanding and agreement between You
and Novell and may be amended only in a writing signed by both parties. NO
LICENSOR, DISTRIBUTOR, DEALER, RETAILER, RESELLER, SALES PERSON, OR EMPLOYEE
IS AUTHORIZED TO MODIFY THIS AGREEMENT OR TO MAKE ANY REPRESENTATION OR
PROMISE THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM, OR IN ADDITION TO, THE TERMS OF THIS
AGREEMENT.

Waiver. No waiver of any right under this Agreement will be effective
unless in writing, signed by a duly authorized representative of the party
to be bound. No waiver of any past or present right arising from any breach
or failure to perform will be deemed to be a waiver of any future right
arising under this Agreement.

Severability. If any provision in this Agreement is invalid or
unenforceable, that provision will be construed, limited, modified or, if
necessary, severed, to the extent necessary, to eliminate its invalidity or
unenforceability, and the other provisions of this Agreement will remain
unaffected.

Export Compliance. Any person or entity exporting or re-exporting Novell
products directly or indirectly and via any means, including electronic
transfer, is wholly responsible for doing so in accordance with the U.S.
Export Administration Regulations and the laws of host countries. Novell
assumes no responsibility or liability for your failure to obtain any
necessary export approvals. Approvals are dependent upon an item's
technical characteristics, the destination, end-use and end-user, as well as
other activities of the end user. Specifically, no Novell product may be
exported to embargoed or otherwise restricted countries or end users.
Please consult the Bureau of Industry and Security web page and other
sources before exporting Novell products from the U.S. and familiarize
yourself with the laws of destination countries before re-exporting Novell
products. This provision shall survive the expiration or earlier termination
of this Agreement. Please refer to the export matrix for Novell products
for more information on exporting Novell Software. You can download a copy
from http://www.novell.com/info/exports/ or obtain a copy from your local
Novell office.

U.S. Government Restricted Rights. Use, duplication, or disclosure by the
U.S. Government is subject to the restrictions in FAR 52.227-14 (June 1987)
Alternate III (June 1987), FAR 52.227-19 (June 1987), or DFARS 252.227-7013
(b)(3) (Nov 1995), or applicable successor clauses. Contractor/ Manufacturer
is Novell, Inc., 1800 South Novell Place, Provo, Utah 84606.

Other. The application of the United Nations Convention of Contracts for
the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded.

©1993, 2000-2007 Novell, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Novell, the "N" logo, openSUSE, the openSUSE logo and SUSE LINUX are
registered trademarks of Novell, Inc. in the United States and other
countries. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. Third party
trademarks are property of their respective owners."

karellen
June 20th, 2008, 07:27 AM
EULA:

"openSUSE-OSS 11.0
Novell Software License Agreement

PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY. BY INSTALLING OR OTHERWISE USING THE
SOFTWARE (INCLUDING ITS COMPONENTS), YOU AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS
AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THESE TERMS, DO NOT DOWNLOAD, INSTALL OR
USE THE SOFTWARE.

RIGHTS AND LICENSES

This Novell Software License Agreement ("Agreement") is a legal agreement
between You (an entity or a person) and Novell, Inc. ("Novell") with respect
to the software product identified in the title of this Agreement, media (if
any) and accompanying documentation (collectively the "Software").

The Software is a modular operating system comprised of numerous components
that may be accompanied by separate license terms. The Software is a
collective work of Novell; although Novell does not own the copyright to
every component of the Software, Novell owns the collective work copyright
for the Software. Most of the components are open source packages, and most
of the components are neither developed nor owned by Novell. Your license
rights with respect to individual components accompanied by separate license
terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this agreement shall restrict,
limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You may have, or
conditions to which You may be subject, under such license terms; however,
if You distribute copies of any component independent of the Software, You
must remove all Novell trademarks, trade dress, and logos from each copy.

You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software within your
Organization. With respect to any version containing the letters "OSS" in
the product name, whereby the product name is
defined in first line of this Agreement, You
may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your
organization. You may make and distribute unlimited modified copies outside
Your organization provided You remove all Novell trademarks, trade dress,
and logos from each modified copy of the Software. The term "Organization"
means a legal entity, excluding subsidiaries and affiliates with a separate
existence for tax purposes or for legal personality purposes. An example of
an Organization in the private sector would be a corporation, partnership,
or trust, excluding any subsidiaries or affiliates of the organization with
a separate tax identification number or company registration number. In the
public sector, an example of Organization would be a specific government
body or local government authority.

While the license terms for a component may authorize You to distribute the
component, You may not use any Novell marks (e.g., SUSE and SUSE LINUX) in
distributing the component, whether or not the component contains Novell
marks.

OTHER LICENSE TERMS AND RESTRICTIONS

The Software is protected by the copyright laws and treaties of the United
States ("U.S.") and other countries and is subject to theterms of this
Agreement. The Software is licensed to You, not sold.

The Software may be bundled with other software programs ("Bundled
Programs"). Your license rights with respect to Bundled Programs accompanied
by separate license terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this
Agreement shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or
obligations You may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under
such license terms.

Novell reserves all rights not expressly granted to You. You may not: (1)
reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software except and only to
the extent it is expressly permitted by applicable law or the license terms
accompanying a component of the Software; or (2) transfer the Software or
Your license rights under this Agreement, in whole or in part.

MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT

Novell has no obligation to provide maintenance or support for the Software.

OWNERSHIP RIGHTS

No title to or ownership of the Software is transferred to You. Novell
and/or its licensors owns and retains all title and ownership of all
intellectual property rights in the Software, including any adaptations or

copies. You acquire only a license to use the Software.

LIMITED WARRANTY

For ninety (90) days from Your date of purchase, Novell warrants that (1)
any media on which the Software is delivered is free from physical defects;
and (2) the Software will substantially conform to the documentation
accompanying the Software. If the defective items are returned to Novell or
if You report the nonconformity to Novell within ninety (90) days from the
date of purchase, Novell will at its sole discretion either resolve the
nonconformity or refund the license fees You paid for the Software. Any
misuse or unauthorized modification of the Software voids this warranty. THE
FOREGOING WARRANTY IS YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY AND IS IN LIEU OF ALL
OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. (The foregoing warranty does not apply
to Software provided free of charge. SUCH SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS"
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND.)

THE SOFTWARE IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED OR INTENDED FOR USE OR
DISTRIBUTION WITH ON-LINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS
REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR
FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION, COMMUNICATION, OR CONTROL SYSTEMS, DIRECT
LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, WEAPONS SYSTEMS, OR OTHER USES IN WHICH FAILURE OF
THE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE
PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.

THE SOFTWARE IS ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH CERTAIN COMPUTERS AND OPERATING
SYSTEMS. THE SOFTWARE IS NOT WARRANTED FOR NON-COMPATIBLE SYSTEMS. Call
Novell or Your dealer for information about compatibility.

Non-Novell Products. The Software may include or be bundled with hardware or
other software programs licensed or sold by a licensor other than Novell.
NOVELL DOES NOT WARRANT NON-NOVELL PRODUCTS. ANY SUCH PRODUCTS ARE PROVIDED
ON AN "AS IS" BASIS. ANY WARRANTY SERVICE FOR NON-NOVELL PRODUCTS IS
PROVIDED BY THE PRODUCT LICENSOR IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE APPLICABLE LICENSOR
WARRANTY.

EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE RESTRICTED BY LAW, NOVELL DISCLAIMS AND EXCLUDES ANY AND
ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES INCLUDING ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, TITLE,
NON-INFRINGEMENT, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. NOVELL MAKES NO
WARRANTY, REPRESENTATION OR PROMISE NOT EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS LIMITED
WARRANTY. NOVELL DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL SATISFY YOUR
REQUIREMENTS OR THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED.
Some jurisdictions do not allow certain disclaimers and limitations of
warranties, so portions of the above limitations may not apply to You. This
limited warranty gives You specific rights and You may also have other
rights which vary from state to state.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

(a) Consequential Losses. NEITHER NOVELL NOR ANY OF ITS LICENSORS,
SUBSIDIARIES, OR EMPLOYEES WILL IN ANY CASE BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL,
INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, TORT, ECONOMIC OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES
ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, INCLUDING
WITHOUT LIMITATION LOSS OF PROFITS, BUSINESS OR DATA, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF THOSE DAMAGES.

(b) Direct Damages. IN NO EVENT WILL NOVELL'S AGGREGATE LIABILITY FOR DIRECT
DAMAGES TO PROPERTY OR PERSON (WHETHER IN ONE INSTANCE OR A SERIES OF
INSTANCES) EXCEED 1.25 TIMES THE AMOUNT PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE OUT OF
WHICH SUCH CLAIM AROSE [OR $50 (U.S.) IF YOU RECEIVED THE SOFTWARE FREE OF
CHARGE]. The above exclusions and limitations will not apply to claims
relating to death or personal injury. In those jurisdictions that do not
allow the exclusion or limitation of damages, Novell's liability shall be
limited or excluded to the maximum extent allowed within those
jurisdictions.

GENERAL TERMS

Term. This Agreement becomes effective on the date You legally acquire the
Software and will automatically terminate if You breach any of its terms.
Upon termination of this Agreement, You must destroy the original and all
copies of the Software or return them to Novell and delete the Software from
Your systems

Benchmark Testing. This benchmark testing restriction applies to You if You
are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on the Software at
the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor. You may not, without
Novell's prior written consent not to be unreasonably withheld, publish or
disclose to any third party the results of any benchmark test of the
Software. If You are a vendor of products that are functionally similar to
or compete with the Software ("Similar Products"), or are acting on behalf
of such a vendor, and You publish or disclose benchmark information on the
Software in violation of this restriction, then notwithstanding anything to
the contrary in the Similar Product's end user license agreement, and in
addition to any other remedies Novell may have, Novell shall have the right
to perform enchmark testing on Similar Products and to disclose and publish
that benchmark information and You hereby represent that You have authority
to grant such right to Novell.

Transfer. This Agreement may not be transferred or assigned without the
prior written approval of Novell.

Law and Jurisdiction. This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State
of Utah, U.S. Any action at law relating to this Agreement may only be
brought before the courts of competent jurisdiction of the State of Utah.
If, however, Your country of principal residence is a member state of the
European Union or the European Free Trade Association, this Agreement is
governed by the laws of that country, and any action at law may only be
brought before a court of competent jurisdiction of that country.

Entire Agreement. This Agreement and the Upgrade/Additive Agreement (if
applicable) sets forth the entire understanding and agreement between You
and Novell and may be amended only in a writing signed by both parties. NO
LICENSOR, DISTRIBUTOR, DEALER, RETAILER, RESELLER, SALES PERSON, OR EMPLOYEE
IS AUTHORIZED TO MODIFY THIS AGREEMENT OR TO MAKE ANY REPRESENTATION OR
PROMISE THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM, OR IN ADDITION TO, THE TERMS OF THIS
AGREEMENT.

Waiver. No waiver of any right under this Agreement will be effective
unless in writing, signed by a duly authorized representative of the party
to be bound. No waiver of any past or present right arising from any breach
or failure to perform will be deemed to be a waiver of any future right
arising under this Agreement.

Severability. If any provision in this Agreement is invalid or
unenforceable, that provision will be construed, limited, modified or, if
necessary, severed, to the extent necessary, to eliminate its invalidity or
unenforceability, and the other provisions of this Agreement will remain
unaffected.

Export Compliance. Any person or entity exporting or re-exporting Novell
products directly or indirectly and via any means, including electronic
transfer, is wholly responsible for doing so in accordance with the U.S.
Export Administration Regulations and the laws of host countries. Novell
assumes no responsibility or liability for your failure to obtain any
necessary export approvals. Approvals are dependent upon an item's
technical characteristics, the destination, end-use and end-user, as well as
other activities of the end user. Specifically, no Novell product may be
exported to embargoed or otherwise restricted countries or end users.
Please consult the Bureau of Industry and Security web page and other
sources before exporting Novell products from the U.S. and familiarize
yourself with the laws of destination countries before re-exporting Novell
products. This provision shall survive the expiration or earlier termination
of this Agreement. Please refer to the export matrix for Novell products
for more information on exporting Novell Software. You can download a copy
from http://www.novell.com/info/exports/ or obtain a copy from your local
Novell office.

U.S. Government Restricted Rights. Use, duplication, or disclosure by the
U.S. Government is subject to the restrictions in FAR 52.227-14 (June 1987)
Alternate III (June 1987), FAR 52.227-19 (June 1987), or DFARS 252.227-7013
(b)(3) (Nov 1995), or applicable successor clauses. Contractor/ Manufacturer
is Novell, Inc., 1800 South Novell Place, Provo, Utah 84606.

Other. The application of the United Nations Convention of Contracts for
the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded.

©1993, 2000-2007 Novell, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Novell, the "N" logo, openSUSE, the openSUSE logo and SUSE LINUX are
registered trademarks of Novell, Inc. in the United States and other
countries. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. Third party
trademarks are property of their respective owners."

hmm...another boycott Novell?
I couldn't care less anyway

Antman
June 20th, 2008, 12:40 PM
hmm...another Boycott Novell?
I Couldn't Care Less Anyway
+1

Growbag
June 20th, 2008, 02:24 PM
Yeah I had an initial allergic reaction to that EULA, but when you actually read it (who does? !) it only says that you can't use SUSE/Novell/openSUSE branding in any derived works.

IE (for the REAL humans out there) you can't use their pictures and stuff, and they won't give you support.

So no big deal really, as I believe the same thing applies whenever you use "Firefox" and associated apps, you can do whatever you want with it, but their logos are copyrighted.

That's why "Iceweasel" et al was created, because some people had a problem with copyrighted artwork.

A bit silly really :)

:rolleyes:

tompickles
June 20th, 2008, 04:52 PM
installed kde4 version - looks nice - though tempted to scrap it about for their GNOME

Antman
June 21st, 2008, 01:27 AM
installed kde4 version - looks nice -

Yeah, I am impressed so far with openSUSE's tweaked KDE4 desktop.

Anzan
June 21st, 2008, 02:02 AM
Yeah I had an initial allergic reaction to that EULA, but when you actually read it (who does? !) it only says that you can't use SUSE/Novell/openSUSE branding in any derived works.

IE (for the REAL humans out there) you can't use their pictures and stuff, and they won't give you support.

So no big deal really, as I believe the same thing applies whenever you use "Firefox" and associated apps, you can do whatever you want with it, but their logos are copyrighted.

That's why "Iceweasel" et al was created, because some people had a problem with copyrighted artwork.

A bit silly really :)

:rolleyes:

Hm. Certainly most people don't read EULAs. But then many people use stolen copies of proprietary software.

One of the most important aspects (for me) of using Linux and OSS is that we don't have to steal or lie just to get our work done. :)

As for Novell, the decision to deal with MS was, as Miguel de Icaza said, made "above his pay grade." And that's certainly even truer of all of the folks working on OpenSUSE.

I posted the EULA without comment because that there was one was my only comment.

As for OpenSUSE and all of the great developers at Novell, I only have appreciation for their fine work, much of which benefits me directly or indirectly.

asimon
June 21st, 2008, 09:07 AM
Yeah I had an initial allergic reaction to that EULA, but when you actually read it (who does? !) it only says that you can't use SUSE/Novell/openSUSE branding in any derived works.

Yes, Fedora for example, and nobody questions their stance when it comes to the Free Software spirit , has similar lawyer speak in their license.

What I like in SUSE's EULA is the benchmarking paragraph. If, say Microsoft benchmarks openSUSE's Mono stack against Microsoft's .NET implementation, then openSUSE is allowed to publish benchmarks of Microsoft's .NET too, even in the case that the .NET's license doesn't allow this (this is only an example, I don't know for sure if the .NET license says anything about publishing benchmarks). Nice.

But I really wish they would also include a document which summurizes their eula in some down-to-earth language, which non-lawyers can understand.

Cheers

Erunno
June 21st, 2008, 11:10 AM
But I really wish they would also include a document which summurizes their eula in some down-to-earth language, which non-lawyers can understand.

The problem is that 'down-to-earth' language can get you in a world of trouble in court if it is legally binding, especially when misinterpreted (deliberately or not). When composing such a document you have to cover each and every angle from a linguistic point of view which results in highly formalized language.