Do the forums scare new users?

[kevin11951]

Go to the "Absolute Beginner Talk" section of the board, and just skim the subjects, and tell me, if you were a brand new user of Linux, never even seen anything outside of windows (not even mac), would you still be so eager to use Ubuntu?

Another way to look at this?

John: Hey! have you tried Ubuntu its sooo easy to use!

Joe: No, never heard of it, will give it a try though.

Joe: *Goes to the Ubuntu homepage and begins to download the Ubuntu live CD*

Joe: Hey! They have A Beginners forum!

Joe: "Xserver-Xorg Package Crashed with new Nvidia Drivers Compiled form source" Hmmm... Lets just cancel this download here... not sure im ready for this.

See what i mean!

[RiceMonster]

Well don't you think they're only going to come here if they're looking for help?

[kevin11951]

Well don't you think they're only going to come here if they're looking for help?

well, even so. it would still scare them, don't you think? they come here asking about their screen resolution, and see something like what i posted above...

[jrusso2]

What are you proposing that the beginners forum only have good things?

[kevin11951]

What are you proposing that the beginners forum only have good things?

no, im not proposing anything, simply stating a question of if its true or not, that a new user would be scared of the beginners board?

[MaindotC]

It's difficult for any Linux distribution to be embraced by newbies because it requires a certain method of thinking. I was playing Broodwar and someone saw in my profile that I was using Ubuntu. They asked how and I answered there questions. I told them I downloaded wine.

They asked me "How did you download it?" I cannot tell you how infuriating that question is and I hope you understand how I felt. Granted, I am a student in a program that requires knowledge of Linux and basic internet operations, but this person didn't even know how to download it - and it turned out they just wanted to know if it was ok to do it via the browser or if they HAD to use wget. I continued with an explanation of things like ./configure, make, make install and answered his questions like "well where do I run that command" and "where do I place the file when its downloaded".

You have to be of the mindset to embrace change, work through obstacles, and research in order to arrive at a solution. I know we have an Absolute Beginner forum, but how many of those beginners are reading "Read This First" and taking it upon themselves to find their own answers?

I bring up this point because sometimes I question how much the community should be concerned about scaring off newbies. On the one hand I feel that if they want to stick to their ******* and never have any idea of how an operating system works - just that it works (most of the time) then let 'em. However, it may be better for humanity to hold a few hands (as if Ubuntu doesn't do that already) and answer the cries of absolute beginners (at least they gave Ubuntu their time to evaluate it).

I say if they're scared off then oh well sucks to be them.

[NovaAesa]

I actually think alot of the things that go on in Beginners Talk would be better off in general suppport. But I guess that's for the mods to decide.

[FuturePilot]

Well, if I went to a hospital and saw all the sick people there, I could say wow! Look at all the sick people. The whole world must be sick. I must lock myself in my house and never come out again!

My point is, that in any type of support forum you're going to see lots and lots of threads like that. Threads about people having problems and trying to solve them. Don't believe me? Go to a Windows forum or a Mac forum. They're just as littered with support questions and people having problems. Such and such program crashes, My system is locking up!, etc. etc. That is the nature of a support forum. Any support forum. Not just limited to computers and operating systems. It's where people go when they have problems. You don't hear from the people that don't have problems very often. Probably because they have no reason to post if they don't have a problem. Unless they want to join in the Community Cafe fun ;)

My ¢.02

[DrBrown]

DrBrown = New User, I've just started reading through today as I am looking at taking the plunge this weekend I have found the information provided in the absolute beginners section to be useful and informative. I have absolutely no knowledge or prior experience of Linux computing...

[Tylazene]

Well, first of all in Kevin's first post the beginner was miss-informed. Even Ubuntu is not as easy as windows. They should have been told it's more complicated. It's for people that don't mind sitting in front of a PC sometimes for hours tinkering. It is better in many ways than windows but is kinda like learning to use a computer all over again.

Second, nobody should get angry and feel obligated to answer a bunch of questions. A " Sorry I'm real busy right now... try looking over here for an answer..." would be better than getting hostle about it.

[+Eric]

It's difficult for any Linux distribution to be embraced by newbies because it requires a certain method of thinking. I was playing Broodwar and someone saw in my profile that I was using Ubuntu. They asked how and I answered there questions. I told them I downloaded wine.

They asked me "How did you download it?" I cannot tell you how infuriating that question is and I hope you understand how I felt. Granted, I am a student in a program that requires knowledge of Linux and basic internet operations, but this person didn't even know how to download it - and it turned out they just wanted to know if it was ok to do it via the browser or if they HAD to use wget. I continued with an explanation of things like ./configure, make, make install and answered his questions like "well where do I run that command" and "where do I place the file when its downloaded".

You have to be of the mindset to embrace change, work through obstacles, and research in order to arrive at a solution. I know we have an Absolute Beginner forum, but how many of those beginners are reading "Read This First" and taking it upon themselves to find their own answers?

I bring up this point because sometimes I question how much the community should be concerned about scaring off newbies. On the one hand I feel that if they want to stick to their ******* and never have any idea of how an operating system works - just that it works (most of the time) then let 'em. However, it may be better for humanity to hold a few hands (as if Ubuntu doesn't do that already) and answer the cries of absolute beginners (at least they gave Ubuntu their time to evaluate it).

I say if they're scared off then oh well sucks to be them.

Dood, you really need to get a grip on yourself. I'm new to Ubuntu (linux), but it's attitudes of elitism and snobbishness that were one reason I somewhat resented the linux community for a long time.

The GREAT news for me is that you, seem to be few and far between, especially on this forum.

It's you who should realize that not everyone wants to understand how an operating system works, cares anything about kernels, drivers, or any other aspect of it all. They want a pc that works, they can use to do what they need it to do, and it does all this realiably and securely. To suggest that a person somehow needs to have this deep understanding of how an OS works, almost as if you're saying you need to be worthy of using it, is utterly absurd and snobbish.

Further, to imply that becasue someone has no interest in anything other than using the computer, should resign to usuing "*******" is equally snobbish. Ubuntu is a really good OS, and to exclude people based on their desire to use a good OS, just because they want to use it and not understand it on a deep level.... is snobish.

Lets spin the bottle back your way man... You conceievably drive a car around every day, do you understand the deep inner workings of your car? Do you know how the bearings around the crank keep from getting eaten up? How much do you know about compression and why it's important? Do you know what detonation is? What about air to fuel ratio and the difference between rich and lean and WHY lean is bad bad bad......?

If you do know all that, well good for you, do you also expect all drivers on the road to have the same knowledge? If not, then the same judgement can be passed along to you here that you pass along to some PC users. You drive around your car without knowing a thing about it. Is that ok? Sure it is, why should it just not work? Do you work on your own car? If so great, your own air conditioner in your home? Great. If not, why do you pass judgement on users of an OS that don't know very much, nor care, when you don't know very much nor care to work on your own car, or home HVAC system?

The point is, if you don't condition yourself to know everything and be able to work on everything that you use every day, well then you're just a hypocrite. If you rely on someone to fix you A/C, Car, TV, Furnace, or electrical system (or countless other things), then I see you as a hypocrite. Because your logic says, that if you use something you should be willing to learn and deal with it all on your own, instead of expecting it to just work, then you're somehow not "worthy" of using it. If you have no vested interest in something, why should go out of your way to learn the details.

So whatever, I know half of what I said will get turned around and this could easily turn into an internet flame war of dumb proportions, I just find your outlook silly at best. So just know, I will not respond to you any further regarding this.

Back to the OP's question.

It could likely scare off some. One of the reason's I came to ubuntu though from XP/Vista was that I felt if I did have an issue I'd have a lot of help from people on these forums. So for some, like me, it helps (even if it looks quite complicated) that there are qustions being asked, and help is being supplied.

[kevin11951]

ok, this thread officially flew off the handle, im leaving...

*shuts door behind himself and leaves*

[Tylazene]

ok, this thread officially flew off the handle, im leaving...

*shuts door behind himself and leaves*


See! Now you went and scared him off...lol!

[Captain Oblivious]

I can only speak for myself, but as a beginner, the beginner forums was/is a big comfort for me, knowing there's a hoard of more experienced users there ready to help me solve whatever problems I come across. Even if there's some crazy x-blah blah blah something-or-other crash.

[Ub1476]

I wouldn't say the Windows forums were much better..

"Help, I can't install XP. It says it didn't find my HDD, and it's viruses on it. It gives me error: 0000000FFF77765GFFFFF000000F6. What to do?"

[MaindotC]

It's you who should realize that not everyone wants to understand how an operating system works, cares anything about kernels, drivers, or any other aspect of it all. They want a pc that works, they can use to do what they need it to do, and it does all this realiably and securely. To suggest that a person somehow needs to have this deep understanding of how an OS works, almost as if you're saying you need to be worthy of using it, is utterly absurd and snobbish.
I don't believe Linux distributions are O/S's for someone that "just wants something that works". I disagree with you. The best advice I've received from the community is "GFGI". It's full configurable to do what you want and if you don't know how to, or aren't even trying to understand how to, then have fun posting those questions that never get answered. I see them all the time - "last hope before I go back to windows" or "why does no one help me??"


Lets spin the bottle back your way man... You conceievably drive a car around every day, do you understand the deep inner workings of your car?
No, I don't, but philosophically I SHOULD because then I have to trust everyone else to do something about the car that I don't understand. I DON'T know how the car works so I go to a mechanic who fixes a problem, forms another problem that'll make me come back in a week, and then rapes me with a bill. That is MY OWN FAULT and I accept it - I don't blame other people for not helping me and calling them snobby. If I get a car, I'll pick up a Chilton or a Hayes and at least have SOME idea of what to do. You're just like the people that know nothing about social engineering or privacy and then blame the bank when a fraudulent transaction hits your account or someone takes out a $40K unsecured loan in your name. Well, something like that may happen to you in the future but damnit you've got a great "how was I supposed to know that" excuse all lined up!

Maybe if you spent less time building up those 5000+ wins on Broodwar and spend more time learning about what you are doing in Linux you'd stop going onto forums and crying. What you fail to realize or respect is the work of the people that made this operating system available to you. Some of the greatest programmers (Torvalds) and philosophers (Stallman) worked to make this alternative available to you and you don't even care any more than to complain that someone doesn't hold you by the hand and do everything for you. Why in the name of whatever are you using this o/s if you've no desire to learn just "tell me how to do it".

I swear you've gotta be one of those people who has no control over your own life and blames everyone else for your own fate. Yeah, yeah, I know - you don't have time to know or learn about x, y, z so it's everyone else's fault.

Don't worry, CNR is coming up in future distro's so you won't have to do anything. I haven't been with Ubuntu long enough to speak for the community, but I wish I could. I'd tell you to go back to ******* and have fun paying for software under the restricted, virus, trojan-plagued proprietary world while I'm having a blast living in the free world.

[grikdog]

What's this "them" and "they" stuff? I'm new to Ubuntu, and even if I did cut my teeth on MSC, AppleSoft, Turbo Pascal, dBase II, MS Visual Studio C++, Metrowerks, MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite, Slackware and RedHat, I'm still scared to death of an OS I can't begin to fathom. The fact is, I never want to know about the OS, period. A good OS is like the surgical nurse in the original M*A*S*H who knows how to work in close and keep her ***** out of the way. Ubuntu is learning, but not exceptionally fast, considering the financial backing. It makes a great playground, and it's a lot of fun, but when anything goes wrong...... >ZOT!<

[MaindotC]

The fact is, I never want to know about the OS, period.

That's right, just leave it up to the developers. Have fun trying to figure out a problem when you don't understand how the o/s works. Just wait for a patch - I'm sure SOMEONE will come up with one, right? That's a good philosophy - just close your eyes and pray for the best :)

[smoker]

Do the forums scare new users?

speaking from my own experience, i think a lot of new users will be a bit apprehensive at first, but as they learn, little by little, and gain a bit more confidence to begin to sort out issues for themselves (and maybe in return, help others), they will be become more comfortable.

debating issues about the relevancy of whether new users should expect this, or understand that, doesn't help new users, or linux in general. i'm sure most new users learn about the os as they go along, like myself, otherwise they wouldn't bother asking for help.

[MaindotC]

Maybe you should take some time to understand the philosophy of Stallman and what he's hoping to accomplish instead of walking all over him as if you are owed anything. Unsubscribing to this topic.

[travislucas]

I have to agree that when I made the switch I didn't even come to the forums until I started googleing for support. However I think that it really depends on how serious the new user is, if there really set on a free OEM they will do anything to stay away from the chains of Microsoft or Apple for that matter.

[aysiu]

Let's take a look at Windows, Mac, and Ubuntu forums thread titles:

Windows (http://forums.windowsforum.org/index.php?showforum=63)
Windows 95 computer.
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Can view all remote computers files, but remote computers cannot gain
0 Ben VK 41 27th May 2008 - 12:08
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Two sets of "favorites" in IE after restore
And how do I access my old list?
2 denno 65 27th May 2008 - 12:08
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Hard disks keep disappearing
1 joe281180 43 27th May 2008 - 11:33
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Topic has attachmentsNetworking Issue..pls help
10 dinosaw 130 27th May 2008 - 08:49
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Playlist Gb in WMP 11...?
How to make WMP display the Gb of a playlist
0 KosmoLeo 33 27th May 2008 - 02:56
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No New Posts
Windows Activation
HELP
7 ryanz 117 27th May 2008 - 02:25
Last post by: Pat Willener
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anyone help windows activation
4 djflair1 95 27th May 2008 - 01:56
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5 CurlyWhirly 70 26th May 2008 - 19:13
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0 andi321 46 26th May 2008 - 18:11
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boot shows two versions of windows
2 m1cha3l 75 26th May 2008 - 11:58
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7 Prune 97 26th May 2008 - 09:31
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5 Chuckdood 175 26th May 2008 - 00:42
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6 Geordie 136 26th May 2008 - 00:26
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17 56 Really, I don't see how Ubuntu looks any scarier in its support threads than other operating systems do in theirs.

I also wouldn't judge the probability of having your luggage misplaced based on what I see at the customer service counter in the baggage claim area of an airport.

[Daggo]

I also did not find the forums until I had my first problem with ubuntu. But when I found it, it was extremely helpful.

<what Daggo reads>- "Absolute beginners forums"
<what Daggo REALLY reads> - "Absolute FREE TECH SUPPORT forums"

I would be more intimidated by a new OS if there was no 'absolute beginners forum' even if some of the topics may seem very complex. When I was learning about some fixes I needed to do, the more I learned about it the easier it was to understand. So it wasnt so bad. And the community is always nice and helpful. I thank the Linux gods for bestowing upon us mere mortals the blessing of the 'absolute beginners forums'

[WeeManDan]

Like most it seems I only made it here after running into some difficulty quite a while ago now. Since then though I think I've got the hang of larger forums, I think that can be one of the scarier aspects of this forum, the size. Sometimes it can be hard to keep up with a topic, although I don't find this a bad thing all the time, I feel it's great that there is such enthusiasm on here.

Only thing I would say is that it strangely took me a little while to find the general chat forum and perhaps putting this at the bottom isn't the greatest?

[Joeb454]

I don't think the forums are scary, learning a new OS can be though.

And threads in ABT could be handled in General Help, but I think ABT assumes that the user has less knowledge, whereas General Help would assume that the user has used Linux enough to be familiar with it at least :)

[Kernel Sanders]

I put the blame squarely on La Roza's shoulders. In fact, i've started a campaign if anyone's interested: www.larozaismeantonewusersontheubuntuforums.com/letsstophim

I predict his fall from grace any time now.......muhahahahahahahahahaahah

:lolflag:

[madjr]

no, im not proposing anything, simply stating a question of if its true or not, that a new user would be scared of the beginners board?

why u asking us?

why don't u ask them.

start a poll there and see what they think

[Joeb454]

Page Load Error...

Also, why LaRoza? What've they done to be mean? I've never seen any mean-ness

[KingTermite]

As a new user to the forums and to Linux, I can tell you it was slightly intimidating.

Not so much because of the number or severity of problems reported (I agree that many probably don't belong in "beginner" forum)....but what intimidated me was the sheer volume of users posting.

My first question scrolled off the front page within about 20 minutes. I thought how the hell is anybody going to see my question and help if it goes off front page so quickly.

I'd rather see a way of slowing the capacity down. Maybe removing "beginners" and having problems go to appropriate forums, but having a marker beside each name for them to "self identify" their Linux knowlege level so us newbies can still be treated as newbies.

[Kernel Sanders]

Page Load Error...

Also, why LaRoza? What've they done to be mean? I've never seen any mean-ness

I think you're reading a bit too much into my post there Joe! :lol:

I thought the joke was obvious? Especially as I targetted one of the most helpful mods on UF? :confused:

[aysiu]

As a new user to the forums and to Linux, I can tell you it was slightly intimidating.

Not so much because of the number or severity of problems reported (I agree that many probably don't belong in "beginner" forum)....but what intimidated me was the sheer volume of users posting.

My first question scrolled off the front page within about 20 minutes. I thought how the hell is anybody going to see my question and help if it goes off front page so quickly.

I'd rather see a way of slowing the capacity down. Maybe removing "beginners" and having problems go to appropriate forums, but having a marker beside each name for them to "self identify" their Linux knowlege level so us newbies can still be treated as newbies.
It's a common fear (and misconception) that the size of the forum impairs the support you get.

No thread goes unread. In fact, if you look at unanswered posts, almost all of them made more than an hour ago have more than 7 views, if not 20 or so, and every unanswered thread is unanswered for a reason other than people not noticing it, usually the problem being difficult to solve.

Problems that are easy to solve are always answered quickly. If you don't believe me, post a thread asking how to install a .deb file. It will be answered within the hour if not within minutes. Try it. I'm not kidding.

[sanderella]

When I was new I found the forums friendly and welcoming (still are). I understand most of the questions, but the answers are over my head. When I followed advice and copied stuff into the Terminal, I just wrecked my system, and had to do a reinstall.:mad:

The best help I get is from Hants (UK) LUG. The guys there really know what they're doing, great.

I would like to see a "Little Old Ladies" forum for those of us who are Linuxly challenged. I come into the forums because I like pink ponies and the cafe and the people.:KS