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Neobuntu
May 28th, 2008, 09:37 PM
Found on the net:


Kubuntu needs better treatment compared to Ubuntu/Gnome. LTS or not, it's a second class citizen, no matter what they say. KDE is good and so is Gnome but I much prefer Kubuntu. Yes, you have to add the darn restricted stuff but i don't care. That's a small price to pay for the best system IMHO on the planet. I just feel slighted, compared to Ubuntu users. They say it's the same but just a different DE but just look at the Kubuntu website and compare that to Ubuntu's. Kubuntu needs some love and respect. Personally, I think it's much better suited to new users (and old.) Sure choice is good and all but Kubuntu is getting the short end of the stick here. Let's at least; the very least, keep the Kubuntu site on par with (or combined with) the Ubuntu site.

I do see an effort with the Ubuntu forums, to list by cloer coded DE. AKA (Kubuntu.) That's very good. the "Kubuntu forums should summarily be merged with the Ubuntu(/Kubuntu) forums. That at least should be a no brainier.

What is Kubuntu missing that Gnome-Ubuntu isn't? Why?

I'm not sure which category this might go.

jimbob
May 28th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Personally I think that Kubuntu's popularity with new users is because it is more windows-like.

If you're going to choose a DE that is the most windows-like, why not just run windows?

I prefer the smooth cleanness of Gnome DE.

RiceMonster
May 28th, 2008, 10:17 PM
The reason I decided to go with GNOME on Ubuntu originally was because for some reason, I can't use my laptop media keys with KDE and only only Kubuntu, (this works on other KDE distros) I couldn't adjust the brightness of the monitor from my keyboard. If all those worked, I'd probably have gone with Kubuntu. I've since switched to Openbox, but that's irrelevant.

Anyway, I think I agree that it could use some more attention.

cardinals_fan
May 28th, 2008, 10:27 PM
Kubuntu is pathetic compared to other KDE distros. I know that there are plans to improve it, so lets hope they make it into Intrepid!

Dr Small
May 28th, 2008, 10:39 PM
sudo rm -R /usr/distros/*buntu
sudo rm -R /usr/share/man/*buntu

Solves the whole problem :)

cardinals_fan
May 28th, 2008, 10:43 PM
Personally I think that Kubuntu's popularity with new users is because it is more windows-like.

If you're going to choose a DE that is the most windows-like, why not just run windows?

I prefer the smooth cleanness of Gnome DE.
Disregarding KDE4, the only way KDE resembles Windows is the default panel layout. Otherwise, it's totally different.

ShodanjoDM
May 28th, 2008, 10:45 PM
I use Gnome by choice, but actually my first distro that I tried was Kubuntu edgy. It didn't last long since I prefer the Gnome way of managing my desktop.

Now that I've seen other KDE distros, I do think that Kubuntu needs more polish. Some may disagree but I think it'll be great if the default Kubuntu install have a similar color schemes, icons and default wallpaper like Ubuntu does.

Here's hoping for the next version will bring much needed changes for Kubuntu.

visionaire
May 28th, 2008, 10:46 PM
KUBUNTU RULES!

I never had any probs with it, not that with gnome, nautilus? pfff

visionaire
May 28th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Found on the net:



I'm not sure which category this might go.


I agree with that statement

and the fact that some people say, that kubuntu is a "pathetic" kde distro is his own opinion only, and that because, kubuntu, ships kde almost with no alterations, not like suse, which es almost unusable like Vista, totally bloated

KDE and KUBUNTU are great IMHO :guitar:

visionaire
May 28th, 2008, 10:51 PM
I use Gnome by choice, but actually my first distro that I tried was Kubuntu edgy. It didn't last long since I prefer the Gnome way of managing my desktop.

Now that I've seen other KDE distros, I do think that Kubuntu needs more polish. Some may disagree but I think it'll be great if the default Kubuntu install have a similar color schemes, icons and default wallpaper like Ubuntu does.

Here's hoping for the next version will bring much needed changes for Kubuntu.

Hey! don't make me use the ugly brown! :lol:

AlanR8
May 28th, 2008, 10:54 PM
If you're going to choose a DE that is the most windows-like, why not just run windows?

Now let me think about that asinine comment for a nano second.......

Shall we start with world domination?

Or maybe an environment that's prone to viruses and spy ware and security problems.

Oh, here's a good one. Because *nix is NOT prone to the above, 100% of my processor power is used to do what I want it to do not what I have to do in Doze just to protect my system.

Have been using Kubuntu for 18 months now EXCLUSIVELY. I tried Ubuntu and liked it. I just prefer Kubuntu. It's fast and secure and I'm looking forwards to a FULLY configurable version of KDE4. I HATE big clunky icons on my desktop!

Yes, I've got Awn installed, and Compiz, both installed on Kubuntu flawlessly, so I can "play" with the pretty effects. But do you know what? I prefer the fully configurable/adjustable/customisable desktop available under KDE 3.**

Just my thoughts. People come over to *nix for a reason, normally because they DON'T want to run Windows.......

# End of rant

ShodanjoDM
May 28th, 2008, 11:08 PM
Hey! don't make me use the ugly brown! :lol:

Well, that brings up at least three choices...

Either:

a. Brown as Kubuntu's next default color scheme, or...

b. Blue as Ubuntu's next default instead, or...

c. Mix Blue and Brown to have a new color... :shock:

:lolflag:

open_coder
May 29th, 2008, 12:04 AM
Kubuntu 8.04 is really Ubuntu 7.10 with the latest KDE release. I have always been amazed at how Kubuntu lags 6 months behind Ubuntu. Where is PulseAudio in 8.04. What about PolicyKit. It happens every release. I remember using Kubuntu and having to install the Restricted Device Manager. Then six months later it was included by default. It took just as long for Kubuntu to get 3D desktop effects as well. Even though GNOME had them already.

I think part of this has to do with Ubuntu's 6 month release strategy. I love the 6 month releases. but I think that maybe Kubuntu needs to be offset from the regular to coincide more closely with KDE 4's release.

On that note, is KDE's 6 month release cycle permanent, or only something for 4.1? If it were permanent, then Kubuntu could release around that schedule. I personally love KDE. The 4.x series is amazing.

Also, people that claim KDE looks like windows are just trying to start arguments. The placement of the menu is the only thing. It only vaguely resembles the Windows start menu. And 4.0 has changed that. The Kontrol Centre looks nothing like the Windows Control Panel. The window borders for 3.5.x did look similar, but 4.x ones definitely don't. The truth is, that the open source community is about choice. That means people can choose to use an interface that resembles anything they want. The solution that gets work done the fastest for a specific person is obviously the more reasonable choice.

--Alex

qazwsx
May 29th, 2008, 12:16 AM
So what kind of love?
Agreed Ubuntu introduces some newbie friendly stuff before Kubuntu but I don't care.

I don't see how it could be better.
Rock solid KDE 3.5.9 and KDE 4 for testing. Nice.
Adept sucks but Synaptic sucks as well when we compare it to pure apt.


One of the arguments is firefox. Remember firefox uses GTK so Kubuntu is never going to support that (I love Konqueror and I hate that fox).

Just remember
In Kubuntu QT=good GTK=bad ;)

In Ubuntu GTK=good QT=bad ;)

There are lots of distros that mixes toolkits in default install (=bad). Everyone is free to mix them later.

And then there are accustomed KDE users. Well, Kubuntu FAQ tells you how to get back default KDE settings. Just couple of simple commands.

Oh and the desktops effects. No usable qt frontend for compiz = not possible. KWin is very mature and feature rich WM. Compiz is just eye candy and less features that I appreciate. Eye candy department will be balanced in KWIN 4.1.

cardinals_fan
May 29th, 2008, 12:25 AM
Kubuntu is SLOW. Compare it to SLAX and you'll see what I mean.

qazwsx
May 29th, 2008, 12:34 AM
Kubuntu is SLOW. Compare it to SLAX and you'll see what I mean.

Yep or sidux. That is not the point. I have made my sidux desktop much heavier Kubuntu's. It is all about default settings. For example Kubuntu starts korganizer and adept in every single login if you are not going to change it. Slimming down = less features = no full blown KDE experience.

AmishFury
May 29th, 2008, 01:25 AM
If you're going to choose a DE that is the most windows-like, why not just run windows?


because they want to run linux and happen to like the layout of the windows desktop with the taskbar and the start menu

personally i prefer gnome over the others..

pieisgood4589
May 29th, 2008, 01:44 AM
Well, Kubuntu isn't owned by Canonical, it's merely funded by them. Kubuntu's website is designed by the people who made Kubuntu, which is why it's a bit more poor in design than the Ubuntu one, because Ubuntu is being developed by hundreds of people.

hotweiss
May 29th, 2008, 01:50 AM
Kubuntu is more stable than Gnome, has better apps, and is more configurable. I don't know why people prefer Ubuntu?

enchantedsky
May 29th, 2008, 02:05 AM
I hate Kubuntu. It's just too complex for the average user. Gnome is very simple and to the point, while still being very functional.

There are a lot of weird programs associated with KDE as well. The Kubuntu menus are overly packed with programs which reminds me of Windows Vista's bloat. The only GREAT program Kubuntu comes with is Amarok, which is wayy better than Rhythmbox that comes with Ubuntu. Amarok even has an equalizer so you can boost the bass while playing music.

Gnome was chosen as the default interface for Ubuntu because it is easier to use. And if MOST people use Ubuntu with Gnome, that means that solutions you find on the web, including this website, will work on your system, and won't necessarily work on Kubuntu. The tag system was only introduced a month or so ago to separate Kubuntu from Ubuntu posts on this forum, but most solutions are still Ubuntu/Gnome related.

For instance, to fix your Grub boot file, most people would say:


sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst And that won't even work in Kubuntu! You have to use the silly Kubuntu editing program called Kate instead. But good luck finding a post which will cater to the Kubuntu crowd and tell you such a difference in editing your Grub boot file.

By the way, most of my hate for Kubuntu is for KDE 3. I think KDE 4 has a lot of potential (it looks great, just like a Macintosh) Only if they could just fix the bugs so that even Ubuntu/Gnome can adopt the KDE4 Aqua theme, and drop the ugly orange/brown color, while keeping superior Gnome :)

visionaire
May 29th, 2008, 03:04 AM
at first i love gnome and have both kde and gnome but, since i use ubuntu (well, kubuntu now) kde for me is more solid and fast, but this not necessary a fact, but for me it is, the menu, the WM is faster then gnome, but for others is the opposite, and it's ok, that's freedom :) sorry, my english is not so good :lol:

cardinals_fan
May 30th, 2008, 01:39 AM
Yep or sidux. That is not the point. I have made my sidux desktop much heavier Kubuntu's. It is all about default settings. For example Kubuntu starts korganizer and adept in every single login if you are not going to change it. Slimming down = less features = no full blown KDE experience.
Have you tried a SLAX live CD? It has every KDE app I could want, and it screams even on old PC's. I don't consider the bloat of Kubuntu the 'full KDE experience', I consider it the reckless abuse of KDE. It's easy to forget that KDE is fast when you try Kubuntu.

cardinals_fan
May 30th, 2008, 01:41 AM
I hate Kubuntu. It's just too complex for the average user. Gnome is very simple and to the point, while still being very functional.

There are a lot of weird programs associated with KDE as well. The Kubuntu menus are overly packed with programs which reminds me of Windows Vista's bloat. The only GREAT program Kubuntu comes with is Amarok, which is wayy better than Rhythmbox that comes with Ubuntu. Amarok even has an equalizer so you can boost the bass while playing music.

Gnome was chosen as the default interface for Ubuntu because it is easier to use. And if MOST people use Ubuntu with Gnome, that means that solutions you find on the web, including this website, will work on your system, and won't necessarily work on Kubuntu. The tag system was only introduced a month or so ago to separate Kubuntu from Ubuntu posts on this forum, but most solutions are still Ubuntu/Gnome related.

For instance, to fix your Grub boot file, most people would say:


sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst And that won't even work in Kubuntu! You have to use the silly Kubuntu editing program called Kate instead. But good luck finding a post which will cater to the Kubuntu crowd and tell you such a difference in editing your Grub boot file.

By the way, most of my hate for Kubuntu is for KDE 3. I think KDE 4 has a lot of potential (it looks great, just like a Macintosh) Only if they could just fix the bugs so that even Ubuntu/Gnome can adopt the KDE4 Aqua theme, and drop the ugly orange/brown color, while keeping superior Gnome :)
I'll stop with the blatant SLAX-pushing after this post, but there's a website you need to see: http://www.slax.org/. The whole OS is incredibly seamless and fast. KDE3 is only bloated when used improperly.

Bubba64
May 30th, 2008, 01:45 AM
I think Xubuntu is a nice addition on top of Gnome you can run both.

bufsabre666
May 30th, 2008, 03:34 AM
the only distro i like the look of kde in is opensuse, other than that im way in gnomes pocket, but i agree, kubuntu is okay, and shouldnt be treated like crap, it works better for some and i say more power to them

Neobuntu
July 12th, 2008, 05:22 AM
I really like Kubuntu and I personally think it's the best (respecting Ubuntu as a fine choice). Therefore this is why I would like to see more equal treatment. No, not the color. That's silly and not my point. Having a different color (standard; it's easy as pie to change) is well, color coded. That's a good thing.

I don't (overall) like Windows. I too believe, newbies like Kubuntu better and just one of the reasons is, it hits the ground running and Windows users can get going faster. That doesn't mean it's Windows. It doesn't mean some people don't have trouble understanding that it's not Windows (and one does not need Windows programs.) Yet, we should not be screaming at them "It's not Window!" under any circumstances (even if some seem to need it.)

Bottom line is, there needs to be better coordination between Ubuntu and Kubuntu teams, especially on the web site(s) of the two. As it is now, you have to tell a newbie to go read the Ubuntu site but no, stop! Get Kubuntu instead from the Kubuntu site. It's just weird.

I'm thankful for the good; cross collaboration that exists. I just think we can do better.

-grubby
July 12th, 2008, 07:45 PM
I feel that Kubuntu is horrid. OpenSuSE does a much better job of KDE, and though I haven't tried OpenSuSE 11 yet, with KDE4, it looks awesome. Also, Knoppix contains way more KDE apps than Kubuntu and pretty much beats it for speed.

SeePU
July 17th, 2008, 06:38 PM
I find this thread interesting. Why? Because I'm debating on whether to install Ubuntu or Kubuntu. I'm used to KDE. I've exclusively used KDE-based distros or installed KDE so that would be my DE. I tried Gnome way back when on Gutsy. I didn't like it. It was simple but for me, there was lack of options and harder to find what I needed even though there were less choices than the KDE menu.

I also didn't like the Orange and Brown but maybe Browns fans like Ubuntu. Sorry, 'bad joke.

Anyway, does installing Ubuntu and then adding KDE make it run slower? The interesting thing is that if you want to use Debian (proper as some people call it), you automatically obtain Gnome desktop since it's the default. You have to add KDE. Right? I guess there is a workaround but I thought that Ubuntu could be run with both desktops and you just log in with KDE. But, does this add extra bloat and slow it down? My computer is fast so this might not be an issue?

I like the KDE menu even though it's sometime a hassle finding something because there is so much there. But, my memory isn't bad so I can usually remember easily after a short period of time. I think that it's good that it has resemblance to Windows moreso than Gnome. I don't that's a very serious critique of Windows for having easy access to the options. I don't know if Gnome has changed much since Gutsy (one of only two distros I tried it on) but the simplicity actually made things harder or more irritating. That's my experience. Perhaps, I'd have to become more accustomed with it but I went back to KDE.

pluviosity
July 17th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Gnome was chosen as the default interface for Ubuntu because it is easier to use. And if MOST people use Ubuntu with Gnome, that means that solutions you find on the web, including this website, will work on your system, and won't necessarily work on Kubuntu. The tag system was only introduced a month or so ago to separate Kubuntu from Ubuntu posts on this forum, but most solutions are still Ubuntu/Gnome related.


Gnome was NOT chosen because it is easier. Mark Shuttleworth himself has said that they chose Gnome because of release cycles matching up. See the second comment at link to his blog: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/151


Mark Shuttleworth says:

KDE is not second class, in fact some companies specifically approach us because of Kubuntu. To the extent that those engagements are successful, KDE and Kubuntu will be a direct beneficiary. KDE was well-represented at UDS, and Iím sure that Kubuntu will reflect the momentum and energy in the KDE community this year. Itís true - Canonical sometimes leads with work on GNOME. Where we need to pick one, we have generally found it easier to plan around GNOME because of their release cycle, which was the primary driver of the original decision to build Ubuntu around GNOME.

cisforcojo
July 17th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Speaking of GNOME's release cycle, what is it exactly they DO again? ;)
I switched over to KDE4 because I really like that they'll just scrap EVERYTHING and start over if they thing they're onto something good. I'm really into their new design with the Oxygen theme, it's all just incredible. GNOME, I'm 100% uninspired by them and I'm not even really sure what they're doing now. They haven't had any big plans for years. Dead project.

I just made the switch over to openSUSE 11 because of KDE4 and damn it's awesome. Granted, I REALLY miss the Ubuntu community and APT but openSUSE on my system is a lot faster (bloated is correct, the downloads are also always HUGE ~400-500MBs) but it's working pretty well. The package manager is absolutely sh*t though compared to Ubuntus. I much prefer .deb to .rpm.

Before trying openSUSE 11, I tried Kubuntu 8.04 and just didn't like it at all. It just didn't have the polish that I've come to expect from Canonical. :(

SeePU
July 18th, 2008, 02:08 AM
Because of release cycles? Can anyone explain?

Also, I swear that programs and the OS itself work differently.

I just tried and compared the liveCDs of Kubuntu and Ubuntu. I can connect with my wireless usb adapter in Kubuntu. I have installed Debian Lenny and Mepis on my computer. I can connect to my wireless usb adapter in Kubuntu (LiveCD), in Debian Lenny (installed OS) and Mepis 7 (installed OS). Ironically, these are all KDE-based Network Manager (i.e. KDE programs). I'm no fan of any of the network manager programs as I think they are all horrible. There is no shortage of people complaining about them and crying of wireless troubles. That's a pet peeve of mine with Linux but that's another topic. I don't know why the developers don't address it more and dedicate more time to it instead of making their respective desktops more pretty.

Anyway, the point is, I found that wireless works better in the KDE environment (and that is saying something considering) than the Gnome one. I find very few reasons to use Gnome. I don't see any of the advantages or positives that Gnome fans see. I don't know how they are hooking up to their wireless unless various chipsets/integrated ones work better than other devices.

I was really disappointed that it didn't work because I have had problems before and I witnessed a distinct difference here.

I guess I won't be ditching KDE for Gnome any time soon. In order for me to use the Ubuntu CD over Kubuntu, I'd need to install the KDE software and hopefully, my computer could easily handle the extra packages and programs.

Edit: Btw, when I try to connect to wireless, I can input my info and wait for it to try connecting to the interface (as it calls it) but then it just stops and gives NO message. There is absolutely no message whatsoever whether it succeeded or failed. But, when I try to connect to anything online (router, internet etc.), there is no connection. Bizzare.

bruce89
July 18th, 2008, 02:45 AM
GNOME, I'm 100% uninspired by them and I'm not even really sure what they're doing now. They haven't had any big plans for years. Dead project.


You obviously haven't noticed the big GNOME / GTK+ 3.0 debate on the go just now.


Because of release cycles? Can anyone explain?

Ubuntu follows GNOME's release cycle. A new Ubuntu is released 1 month after the 2.xx.0 release of GNOME.

cisforcojo
July 18th, 2008, 06:12 AM
You obviously haven't noticed the big GNOME / GTK+ 3.0 debate on the go just now.


Actually, I hadn't. You mean they've FINALLY been moved to act!? I'm sure they're not happy about it. :razz:

Erunno
July 18th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Actually, I hadn't. You mean they've FINALLY been moved to act!? I'm sure they're not happy about it. :razz:

The GTK+ maintainers (which are not all necessarily GNOME developers as well) had been thinking about GTK 3.0 hard and loud (i.e. publicly) for a while now as some in their development community think that they carry along too many deprecated APIs around and other parts need some serious refacturing. With this, an API and ABI break is at hand so GNOME was more or less forced into GNOME 3.0 as this means a lot of breakage for them as well. I'm sure some have been kicking and screaming about this upstream decision. :-P

bruce89
July 19th, 2008, 12:14 AM
Actually, I hadn't. You mean they've FINALLY been moved to act!? I'm sure they're not happy about it. :razz:

Indeed, there is a big argument about it on pg.o.