Why Intrepid will be an awesome release and a massive step forward...

[Mazza558]

Reading about on the forums, I've realized how much improved the whole experience will be in Ibex. From what I've gathered, some of the major new stuff in Ibex, software-wise, is:

- Flash Player 10 with less crashes and much-improved performance. It's already stable in Ibex.

- New Gnome with the usual new features and bug fixes which always coincide with Ubuntu releases. Nothing that exciting, as this is always included in the latest Ubuntu.

- OpenOffice 3 will be finished and most likely included with 8.10. Lots of new features and nice interface elements.

- New ATi drivers if we're lucky (with support for more than one 3D app at a time! Compiz + 3D apps would now be possible for the first time with no flickering or crashes!)

- Firefox 3 will be stable and a solid platform. Most extensions will, by 8.10, work fine with Firefox 3.

-KDE4 (probably 4.2 by then) by default on Kubuntu. KDE will be stable enough for use by 8.10. Awesome!

- New theme for Ubuntu. I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with.

- New login theme which uses compositing might be included. This would mean those using compiz would find that it's already loaded at the login screen - no more blank panels loading, disappearing, and reappearing as Compiz loads!

- New boot screen has been proposed, with just the Ubuntu logo in the background and a bar - no text.

- Proposals to include Elisa Media Center in Ubuntu to improve media capabilities out of the box. It's very small on its own and looks great.

[philliptweedie]

Flash, Firefox, Open Office, Gnome !

I can't wait. Ubuntu has spoiled me for life. How many years did I wait happily between XP and Vista? Not knowing any better.

Now I'm impatient with a 5 month wait only 1 month after a new release!

[klange]

Newer swfdec, possibly DRI2 for Intel cards, possibly the GEM memory manager... Lots of things I look forward to. A compositing login wouldn't be a theme, it would require making a brand new login manager.

[Bou]

I don't want to rain on your parade but half your points are based on things that *might* happen. That kind of thinking leads to letdowns in the end, you know.

[kef_kf]

-KDE4 (probably 4.2 by then) by default on Kubuntu. KDE will be stable enough for use by 8.10. Awesome!


intrepid is more likely to include kde4.1.3 (and receive an update to 4.1.4 shortly after it is released, just like hardy did with 4.0.4). 4.2 is scheduled to be released in january 2009.

major kde4 releases: every 6months (if shuttleworth cant do anything about it :) )

ps: kde4.0.4 is pretty stable, it just lacks features.

[karellen]

let' wait and see... if you expect not much, you can't be dissapointed
and how do you know that Flash is "already stable in Ibex"?

[toupeiro]

It sounds very impressive! Looking forward to it

[zmjjmz]

I'm worried about the compositing login manager. SLiM is just fine IMHO, and Compiz takes a while to load already on this GMA950.

[FuturePilot]

Flash Player 10 with less crashes and much-improved performance. It's already stable in Ibex.
Flash 10 will most likely be released before Intrepid so it will not be exclusive to Intrepid.


New login theme which uses compositing might be included. This would mean those using compiz would find that it's already loaded at the login screen - no more blank panels loading, disappearing, and reappearing as Compiz loads!
Compiz would not be involved with this. I believe the plan is to use Clutter (http://www.clutter-project.org/) to provide animations through OpenGL. More here (http://macslow.thepimp.net/?p=163)


Proposals to include Elisa Media Center in Ubuntu to improve media capabilities out of the box. It's very small on its own and looks great.
I'm not sure how this would work out. Besides the possible legal issues with codecs and stuff, we're already squeezed for room on the CD as it is.

I'm very excited about Intrepid. Every new version of Ubuntu just keeps getting better. :guitar:

[klange]

I'm worried about the compositing login manager. SLiM is just fine IMHO, and Compiz takes a while to load already on this GMA950.
A composited login manager would only load a few plugins, Compiz takes a while to load when you have a full setup, but such a DM would only need something like core, fade and place if it were to use Compiz.

[meborc]

...

I'm not sure how this would work out. Besides the possible legal issues with codecs and stuff, we're already squeezed for room on the CD as it is.

...

well... elisa multimedia center team members were actively patricipating in UDS to ensure that they are in for ibex... the size is not a problem, the problem is elisa is still not quite there yet with the features... i run it to watch movies and videos from youtube... but it is still conf-file based setup... (and yes, i know drag and drop works perfectly, but it is so intuitive that i didn't know about it till i read it on the forums)

:)

and of course II will rock our sox off...

[FuturePilot]

well... elisa multimedia center team members were actively patricipating in UDS to ensure that they are in for ibex... the size is not a problem, the problem is elisa is still not quite there yet with the features... i run it to watch movies and videos from youtube... but it is still conf-file based setup... (and yes, i know drag and drop works perfectly, but it is so intuitive that i didn't know about it till i read it on the forums)

:)

and of course II will rock our sox off...

That's awesome to hear. It would be great to have a media center included. And Elisa is definitely a great media center. :)

[lud666]

Sound like maybe 8.10 should have been the LTS release.

[madjr]

Sound like maybe 8.10 should have been the LTS release.
exactly

as long as the bugs are low Ibex will be good.

i would care less about features that are "kwel" but dam buggy.

anything too buggy should be out of the question.

if i wanted buggy i would use kde4.0.0 or e17.

i would not like to see more review like this:
six annoyances in hardy (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/six-annoyances-in-hardy-heron-ubuntu/)

[smartboyathome]

as long as the bugs are low Ibex will be good.

i would care less about features that are "kwel" but dam buggy.

anything too buggy should be out of the question.

if i wanted buggy i would use kde4.0.0 or e17.

i would not like to see more review like this:
six annoyances in hardy (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/six-annoyances-in-hardy-heron-ubuntu/)

Even though E17 is technically "pre-alpha" software, I haven't had many problems with it. It does segfault sometimes, but that is only once a week at best, and all the apps are saved while E17 restarts itself.

[klange]

It's unfortunate that the one feature that will make compositing viable on any machine is littered with bugs, still considered brand new, not in any official package, and only implemented on one set of graphics chipsets...

I hope they fix the various problems with audio input - I want to be able to record in Audacity, damn it! Note even my fiddling has gotten it working. And someone should have tried to fix the microcode issues in the IWL drivers before they replaced the IPW ones (and before the IPW ones were, what seems to be, completely removed from the repos).

[23meg]

I don't want to rain on your parade but half your points are based on things that *might* happen. That kind of thinking leads to letdowns in the end, you know.

Exactly. People who are new to FOSS usually take feature goals as "promises" made by a central authority that's controlling everything, as it were, and when they don't happen in the final release (usually due to the state of upstream), they get frustrated.

I recommend everyone to show some restraint, speak in terms of plans and goals, and point to factors that may hold feature goals back when talking about upcoming releases.

[ghindo]

Is anyone even using Intrepid yet? I know it's still pre-alpha, but someone out there must be testing it.

Edit: Why are people saying Elisa is lightweight? It has a lot of dependancies. See attachment.

[FuturePilot]

I hope they fix the various problems with audio input - I want to be able to record in Audacity, damn it!

+1. I've had so many issues with Audacity on Linux. For some reason it just works under Windows. :(
I think the problem is that it goes with either OSS or ALSA. It never goes through a sound server. Even back when we had ESD, it never played nice with that either. It doesn't play nice with PulseAudio either. On Windows it seems to utilize the Windows sound server, but on Linux it only uses ALSA or OSS which are not sound servers.

[Mazza558]

Exactly. People who are new to FOSS usually take feature goals as "promises" made by a central authority that's controlling everything, as it were, and when they don't happen in the final release (usually due to the state of upstream), they get frustrated.

I recommend everyone to show some restraint, speak in terms of plans and goals, and point to factors that may hold feature goals back when talking about upcoming releases.

Except that Ubuntu seems to work more like that than other distros - it has fixed release dates which occur regularly.

[IHATEDLINK]

New users will be spoiled. ;)
This is to good.
I can't wait to use Ubuntu Mighty Mouse!
(I REALLY WANT THEM TO CALL IT THAT WAY :D, despite apple's little mice)

[eragon100]

I sure as hell hope they include elisa media center by default.

Although it doesn't really matter for me, as I have just installed ubuntu ultimate 1.8 (based on hardy) a couple of hours ago. It looks great, feels great, and runs great. And tons of apps included, even the kitchen sink (well, a digital recipe manager, actually :lolflag:)

[madjr]

Is anyone even using Intrepid yet? I know it's still pre-alpha, but someone out there must be testing it.

Edit: Why are people saying Elisa is lightweight? It has a lot of dependancies. See attachment.

elisa by default in ubuntu is not necessary. If someone wants it, it's better to get it from the repos.

[LightB]

Dang, they didn't take my better suggestion to go with Impala, those bastards! ;)

And as far as the hoopla of the ultimate ubuntu at last; it should be nice, but I've been hearing the same thing since Ubuntu 6.06 Daffy Duck.

[23meg]

Except that Ubuntu seems to work more like that than other distros - it has fixed release dates which occur regularly.

The fixed release cycle (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases) actually is the reason why certain release goals may not make it on time.

[barbedsaber]

thats all fine and dandy, but, will it blend?

[Mazza558]

thats all fine and dandy, but, will it blend?

The new theme might - blending metacity and gtk themes.

[barbedsaber]

sigh

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2bn2G1QcE1w

[IHATEDLINK]

sigh

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2bn2G1QcE1w

ARGHH!! THE PAINN!!!!!

[Ub1476]

Exactly. People who are new to FOSS usually take feature goals as "promises" made by a central authority that's controlling everything, as it were, and when they don't happen in the final release (usually due to the state of upstream), they get frustrated.


What? Are you talking about Microsoft?

[cb951303]

kernel based mode-setting won't make it to 8.10 :???:

[ghindo]

kernel based mode-setting won't make it to 8.10 :???:What's kernel-based mode-setting?

[23meg]

What? Are you talking about Microsoft?

I'm talking about the "Why did [insert deferred feature] not make it to the release??!? Ubuntu sux!!!1" drama that I see on the forums close to just about every Ubuntu release.

[cardinals_fan]

I'm talking about the "Why did [insert deferred feature] not make it to the release??!? Ubuntu sux!!!1" drama that I see on the forums close to just about every Ubuntu release.
It's true. Plans aren't promises, and you can only do so much in 6 months.

[Tyler H]

What about ext4?

[hanzomon4]

Most of that stuff won't see the light of day. I've lost all hope in getting a totally revamped look. I prefer to just wait without expectations. If you take these goals seriously Ubuntu's next release will just seem like a let down.

I'd settle for them fixing pulse and making intel mac support better out of box. We really need to do something about audio cause it just sucks right now. I'm sick of always having audio problems, always needing obscure workarounds to get software mixing and crappy input.

[LightB]

I'm sick of always having audio problems, always needing obscure workarounds to get software mixing and crappy input.

That won't change much unless some sound card vendor starts to support linux like nvidia and intel have done with video cards. I mean really change. Although unless a miracle happens, I've lost all hope that ALSA will ever change much from it's current state. I mean, it works, and it will support sound cards, for the most part, but it will be uncomfortable as always. Weird, messy mixer controls. It won't change. All that will happen are things like pulseaudio getting tacked on. And OSS4 won't be touched so trying to use it anyways will always break part of the system, the OSS devs have no interest in alleviating that either. Their mortal enemy seems to be ALSA. Seems like they hope OSS is so great that people will demand it be supported by Linux distros. That won't happen in a massive enough scale when people are hearing sound just fine out of ALSA. How lame, but oh well.

[ghindo]

What about ext4?It's still in development. Don't expect to see it included for a while, if ever.

[Tyler H]

I thought ext4 was almost ready for the market?

As for ALSA, I'd rather have proprietary driver support from Creative.

[Joeb454]

It's still in development, though I think they've said you can use it if you really want (at your own risk).

It takes time to develop an enter file system :)

[Ub1476]

I'm talking about the "Why did [insert deferred feature] not make it to the release??!? Ubuntu sux!!!1" drama that I see on the forums close to just about every Ubuntu release.

My point is that most vendors wont make certain features on time, and people usually always complain.

It's just for a few days/week, anyway. Not too tiresome, and people who don't show some respect like those isn't worth bothering with anyway.

[oldsoundguy]

Granted, every new version of Ubuntu and variants is better in many ways. But also consider that every version will leave some older hardware behind.

8.04 left one of my machines behind .. a PIII running a Via chip.
That is to be expected if progress is to be made and to be made at the pace that they are now AT.

[SirThom]

I'm still traumatised a bit by my upgrade to Hardy. I think I will be cautious about leaping into Intrepid when the time comes.

[hanzomon4]

That won't change much unless some sound card vendor starts to support linux like nvidia and intel have done with video cards. I mean really change. Although unless a miracle happens, I've lost all hope that ALSA will ever change much from it's current state. I mean, it works, and it will support sound cards, for the most part, but it will be uncomfortable as always. Weird, messy mixer controls. It won't change. All that will happen are things like pulseaudio getting tacked on. And OSS4 won't be touched so trying to use it anyways will always break part of the system, the OSS devs have no interest in alleviating that either. Their mortal enemy seems to be ALSA. Seems like they hope OSS is so great that people will demand it be supported by Linux distros. That won't happen in a massive enough scale when people are hearing sound just fine out of ALSA. How lame, but oh well.

It's hard to say, it seems like we have tons of support; just no sane way of getting audio in or out. The various sound systems are always stepping on each other and proprietary application developers, hell even FOSS developers, can't keep up with all of the changes.

[oldsoundguy]

re the sound card problem.

Investigate Turtle Beach. At least they furnish web space to developers to place driver(s) and do NOT turn their back on Linux as do some others!!

I have been able to get Sound Blaster to work (not completely, but WORK)
(no volume control for 5.1 digital out, but it works)(I use the remote for the amplifier.)

[cb951303]

What's kernel-based mode-setting?

it means video mode settings and console switches will be done by kernel hence we'll have a flickerless, faster and more stable bootsplash. Also xorg will probably start faster...

[Mazza558]

To be fair, the only thing that would disappoint me is if Intrepid is still slower than Gutsy. Hardy for me has been a disappointment for that reason alone. All I expected was a solid release with the same or improved performance compared to Gutsy, but I got neither. On my laptop, Hardy's slower than Vista.

I hope people take a focus on getting the Ibex up to speed before adding some new apps. I wrote the list above on the expectation that at least the speed issued would be fixed.

[madjr]

To be fair, the only thing that would disappoint me is if Intrepid is still slower than Gutsy. Hardy for me has been a disappointment for that reason alone. All I expected was a solid release with the same or improved performance compared to Gutsy, but I got neither. On my laptop, Hardy's slower than Vista.

I hope people take a focus on getting the Ibex up to speed before adding some new apps. I wrote the list above on the expectation that at least the speed issued would be fixed.

Hardy slower than Vista?

har har silly wabbit.

am typing this from an old pc with just 256mb ram

[zmjjmz]

On my laptop, Hardy's slower than Vista.

I assume you mean bootup times, which seem to be slow only with Compiz. Or it's the integrated graphics card, because I have heard many a report about Gutsy or Hardy and such booting up in < 30 secs. This happens if I go into a non-Compiz session for me. That said, suspend works, so I rarely have to turn off the computer.

[LightB]

It's hard to say, it seems like we have tons of support; just no sane way of getting audio in or out. The various sound systems are always stepping on each other and proprietary application developers, hell even FOSS developers, can't keep up with all of the changes.

Yeah, but what changes with old cards? The emu10kx is probably the most well supported set of cards in ALSA yet it still has some flaws and the mixer controls make no sense. And proper 5.1 sound (and higher), forget it. Well, at least the latency is much better than the proprietary driver on windows. Hell will freeze first, but Creative supporting linux would be the best thing to happen with sound on linux. The rest of the consumer grade sound cards are pretty dinky. Like all the horrible integrated stuff that can't even play more than 1 sound.

[LightB]

Oh btw, the slowness some say this new Ubuntu has, it probably has something to do with some kernel settings I keep hearing about, they can slow things down in some cases. It's something to do with a new control groups feature that was enabled by default in the kernel, and maybe it was a mistake. If you compile the kernel and disable these settings, you will probably go back to seeing the performance you saw before.

[HanZo]

Most of the features listed in the first post of this tread have not made it into intrepid. But that's ok. As long as we get a stable OS... and actually here come the real problem. What has been released as a final version is still too buggy to be called like this.
I'm talking about kernel panics with some intel wifi cards, nvidia drivers not giving the best performance, hardware like soundcards and webcams that worked well with hardy not not working anymore...
I have a dell xps 1330 laptop. This one was sold with ubuntu preinstalled. This piece of hardware should work 100% with ubuntu... but right now maybe 80% works, and that's not what people pay money for.
This should still be called a beta...

[K.Mandla]

Closed for necromancing.