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MONODA
May 24th, 2008, 07:28 AM
Ok this is a completely hypothetical question, if I buy a laptop (or desktop) from system76 or some other company with ubuntu preinstalled and I experience problems like kernel panics and crashes of the system etc "out of the box", would this be considered system76's (or which every company I bought it from) fault and would I be able to get it fixed? The reason why I ask this is because I have used hardy on my laptop and it hasnt been a pleasent experience, I got a few kernel panics and crashes on a fresh install and have heard of others getting similar problems and I have just been thinking about what these companies would do if such aproblem occured

perce
May 24th, 2008, 07:38 AM
You should contact the customer support, and they should explain you how to fix the problem. However it could not be easy because they might not know what to do: maybe the computer was working with Gutsy when they started to sell it, but is broken with Hardy, and these small companied don't have 100% control on the hardware and the software.

tact
May 24th, 2008, 08:54 AM
Ok this is a completely hypothetical question, if I buy a laptop (or desktop) from system76 or some other company with ubuntu preinstalled and I experience problems like kernel panics and crashes of the system etc "out of the box", would this be considered system76's (or which every company I bought it from) fault and would I be able to get it fixed? The reason why I ask this is because I have used hardy on my laptop and it hasnt been a pleasent experience, I got a few kernel panics and crashes on a fresh install and have heard of others getting similar problems and I have just been thinking about what these companies would do if such aproblem occured

Ahhh you again.. so all your problems are still hardy's fault izzit? Hmmm.. ok. Nothing to do with your hardware... ahhh yes thats right.

I would say that the hypothetical laptop you buy from the hypothetical vendor with ubuntu hypothetically pre-installed will work perfectly with whatever hypothetical version of ubuntu is hypothetically installed on it.

Why - because hypothetically that vendor would test the hypothetical version of ubuntu they preinstall on a hypothetical laptop to see that it works just fine on that......particular..... HARDWARE.

So hypothetically if you bought that hypothetical laptop from that hypothetical vendor with ubuntu hypothetically installed - and you didnt fool with installing unsupported stuff on it... hypothetically you'd have no kernel panics or lockups and hypothetically no reason to complain

(However I sincerely doubt the very last hypothesis - you'd find something to complain about.)

Cheers....

tact
May 24th, 2008, 09:02 AM
...and taking the hypothesis one step further:
If that hypothetical laptop with ubuntu preinstalled on it were to hypothetically have gutsy or feisty preinstalled, and you were to hypothetically do an upgrade to hardy...and had kernel panics or other issues - I'd say that hypothetically your first call to the support desk would quite reasonably include words to the effect "return the laptop to original spec, original software, and tell us if the problem persists."

Same would definitely (not hypothetically) happen if you were to hypothetically buy a windowsXP preinstalled laptop and installed a legally bought version of Windows Vista onto it and began to experience problems.

(i.e. no mater how easy the upgrade is made, perhaps so easy its a trivial matter to perform, a few clicks over the internet or slip a CD in the drive - that one specific set of hardware works with gutsy (or XP) is no guarantee the same hardware will work well after upgrade to Hardy (or Vista).

Hardware... hmmmm.... that word...

Cheers.

MONODA
May 24th, 2008, 09:18 AM
dude, I just asked a question which you didnt even try to answer, all you did was try and attack me for something I said in another thread...
EDIT: just as a reply to what you are saying: I realise that it might be my hardware's fault (dont really know exactly what that means...) but something that worked perfectly (well except the nvidia drivers) in previous versions of ubuntu should work just as well in the most recent versions.

tact
May 24th, 2008, 10:35 AM
dude, I just asked a question which you didnt even try to answer, all you did was try and attack me for something I said in another thread...

I gave you an answer... that provided the theoretical laptop was not version upgraded or otherwise user spoiled - you hypothetically wont have any kernel panics. So your hypothetical question is a non-sequitur.

Yes I attack your attitude form another thread as it is an implicit part of this current thread. Expressed clearly in your comment below:



[...] but something that worked perfectly (well except the nvidia drivers) in previous versions of ubuntu should work just as well in the most recent versions.

This is exactly what was wrong in your assertions in other threads. Who are you, I, or anyone to say that Hardy "should" work as well on all the hardware previous versions worked well on?

Wot rubbish.

1. Equate it to another OS... There are plenty of PC's that run XP deliciously well but will not run Vista.

2. There is so MUCH in Hardy that is totally new.. new gvfs, new sound system, new samba (userfileshare), ... new...new... all through. How can anyone assert or assume that Hardy "should" support exactly all the hardware that other older versions of ubuntu support?

So it is your point (this thread and others) that Hardy should support all hardware that older versions support - that I take issue with.

Cheers

MONODA
May 24th, 2008, 10:49 AM
That would make sense, if my hardware was obsolete or anything near it, but it is not.

tact
May 24th, 2008, 10:49 AM
Lets look at it from one isolated hypothetical situation - perhaps it will help you understand where i am coming from:
Gutsy uses ALSA sound server/system. It works on the hardware it works on.

Hardy uses the much better and more advanced pulseaudio sound server/system. A definite step forward. It works on the hardware it works on. HOWEVER....

There is a hypothetical possibility that... SOME hardware that runs ALSA perfectly may not run pulseaudio very well at all. (I don't think this is a real case at all - we are hypothesising here!)

So.. in this hypothetical case... it could be said by a gutsy user "hardy doesn't work on my system! I don't like it" They may even say as you do "Hardy SHOULD support my sound card cos gutsy did!"

Well that hypothetical fellow is welcome to his view. But in this hypothetical who is he to suggest that all the rest of us should be denied all the advancements of using pulseaudio in our fave distro because it won't run on his hardware for some reason.

Specially when he has the following options:
- stay with gutsy
- stay with the infinitely better Hardy but uninstall pulseaudio and install ALSA

No one is saying that hypothetical user who cannot run pulseaudio has any faulty hardware.. after all it works perfectly with Gutsy. Just his hardware is not supported by the new and improved soundsystem in the new step forward Hardy.

That hypothetical user with a problem with pulseaudio has no right to make so much noise about how "bad" hardy is. Nor has he any basis for asking/complaining/demanding hardy not use pulseaudio and use something that does support his hardware just like gutsy.

Aren't you behaving as that hypothetical user? Only difference I see is that we do not know what part of hardy it is that will not work as gutsy did on your system. (i.e. You cannot pin it on any specific system like pulseaudio in the hypothetical)


Cheers

BlackDragonBE
May 24th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Stop flaming already.
Anyway, I think you got your answer, it will work because they tested it and else you can just call them for help and if that doesn't work you can always ask around the forum.

Cheers

smoker
May 24th, 2008, 12:15 PM
if you buy a laptop preinstalled with ubuntu, then it should work fine, and if not, you should be able to return it for repair, check the terms and conditions of whom you are buying from.

of course, if you change the specs, hardware, software, you may invalidate any warranty, again, check the t & c.

bigbrovar
May 24th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Ok this is a completely hypothetical question, if I buy a laptop (or desktop) from system76 or some other company with ubuntu preinstalled and I experience problems like kernel panics and crashes of the system etc "out of the box", would this be considered system76's (or which every company I bought it from) fault and would I be able to get it fixed? The reason why I ask this is because I have used hardy on my laptop and it hasnt been a pleasent experience, I got a few kernel panics and crashes on a fresh install and have heard of others getting similar problems and I have just been thinking about what these companies would do if such aproblem occured

I think i quite understand what u are trying to say .. i.e if u have a problem say kernel panic with a computer u got from say system76 which came pre-installed with ubuntu ...would system76 be held respnsible .. would it be their fault .. in other words who would be responsible for fixing the system for u .. right ?

well from the little i know . when u buy a computer with an operating system .. u are actually entering into a contract with two parties .. the hardware vendor and the OS provider .. .. hence if ur problem is hardware related like faulty screen or a faulty cd drive .. then naturally the hardware vendor in this case system76 would be at fault and would be responsible for fixing it .. so far as u are under warranty ..

however if ur porblem is OS related .. like a kernel panic and the likes .. then the hardware vendor cant be held responsible .. in that case the maker of the OS would have to be responsible for fixing it .. but u most know that most software come with no warranty what so ever ... so u can only enjoy official support from canonical if u paid for support...

however if u can proof that the problem of the os was caused by a poor implimentation of the OS ..by the hardware vendore that .. they would be responsible ..

what i say makes sense to me .. i cant guarantee it would make any sense to u .. but at least i tried explaining without flaming u ..

ssam
May 24th, 2008, 01:08 PM
kernal panics can often be due to hardware problems.

try running memtest overnight. if it is hardware fault then you shoulf get a refund/repair.

theraje
May 24th, 2008, 02:12 PM
EDIT: just as a reply to what you are saying: I realise that it might be my hardware's fault (dont really know exactly what that means...) but something that worked perfectly (well except the nvidia drivers) in previous versions of ubuntu should work just as well in the most recent versions.

Not necessarily... I remember when Service Pack 2 for Windows XP came out, and a lot of people who ran that update suddenly had problems with things like sound being broken, among other things. Same OS, same version, just an update to it.

What tact means by "the hardware's fault" (not that I can read minds, but I think I have an idea where he's coming from) is that the hardware is older in this case than the software. The hardware might not have the ability to do some of the newer things introduced in the latest version of Ubuntu, because the hardware manufacturer didn't take these newer features into account. If this is the case, problems will arise.

Although, with it being as extreme as kernel panics and the like, it may well be another problem too... have you tried reverting back to the version that the system came preinstalled with to see if it still works?

tact
May 24th, 2008, 04:17 PM
That would make sense, if my hardware was obsolete or anything near it, but it is not.

I am not talking about obsoleted hardware at all. Just "different" software (hardy has much in it thats different to gutsy) not working on perhaps perfectly good existing hardware - for all the reasons and as per the examples already given.

tact
May 24th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Stop flaming already.
Anyway, I think you got your answer, it will work because they tested it and else you can just call them for help and if that doesn't work you can always ask around the forum.

Cheers

Where's the flame?

perce
May 24th, 2008, 06:22 PM
The only way in my life I could get a kernel panic was if I couldn't write on / Have you checked if you have the right permissions, and that it is not full?

To rule out hardware problems, have you checked live CD's of other distributions, maybe older?

gameryoshi600
May 24th, 2008, 07:59 PM
No it will not

MONODA
May 24th, 2008, 09:08 PM
kernal panics can often be due to hardware problems.

try running memtest overnight. if it is hardware fault then you shoulf get a refund/repair.
yes I have run that, didnt get any errors.

Not necessarily... I remember when Service Pack 2 for Windows XP came out, and a lot of people who ran that update suddenly had problems with things like sound being broken, among other things. Same OS, same version, just an update to it.
Yes I know that, but that was windows:P

Although, with it being as extreme as kernel panics and the like, it may well be another problem too... have you tried reverting back to the version that the system came preinstalled with to see if it still works?
yes I have, it came with vista and it did not work well no matter what I did. I have not had problems that I got in hardy in other distros

any my problems are not the purpose of this thread, I got my answer, thank you.