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View Full Version : Would it be possible to create an ubuntu-sponsored site for teaching ubuntu?



Afkpuz
May 15th, 2008, 04:59 PM
I've been answering a lot of newbie posts and really see a need for an offical site that can explain ubuntu from the ground up. I don't think it would need to go into great detail about anything, but could have lessons that build on each other and help explain the workings of ubuntu. Does anyone else think this would be a good idea? I can't code a website, but I think I could write some sweet tutorials and explanations. Here are some lessons that I've been able to think of.


1.) Permissions-explaining why ubuntu uses them, which files are locked, etc.


2.)File structure-Simple explanation that / is like C: in windows, home folder is where you can save stuff, etc.

3.) Installation methods:easy-talk about synaptic and add/remove

4.) Command line-the simple basics, like running .sh files, moving files, changing directories, etc. Simple things that make command life easier

5.) Desktop themes-How to change them, where to find them, how to change background, basic customization of the desktop. could also talk about alternate task bars

6.) Networking-explanation for simple things, like networking with windows computers, sharing files, mapping network drives

7.) Media playback help-explain how to get the proper codecs, play a DVD, etc. This is a big one!

8.) Enabling desktop effects-explanation about video drivers, how to get compiz settings manager, etc



There are tons of other topics that could be on this site and we could have more advanced and specific topics, like how to use the GIMP. I think this could also take some load off of the forums because we could point new converts to this site after installs.


*Edit*
Installation of ubuntu would also be a great topic that could be explained with pictures.



Like I said, I cannot code a website, but I could write tutorials. What do you all think?

maniacmusician
May 15th, 2008, 05:02 PM
A year (maybe 2, heh) ago, I started to write a book that takes users through Linux from the ground up. Due to school and limited resources, it only got so far. I'm probably going to start work on it again once I get done with school related stuff, though. I think I'll be giving Scribus a try...OO.org destroyed the document I was working on between versions. Terribly inconsistent.

RWells
May 15th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Not sure if this is what you mean, but I would like to see some stuff like www.linuxcommand.org for ubuntu.

The problem I see with you doing this as an individual is, Ubuntu seems to recomend not using anything but there official documentation and not using the linux way of doing things.
Which means a noob like me wouldnt know whether to trust you tutorials or not.

But I do feel there is somthing missing in the Ubuntu documentation area.

I blew through linuxcommand.org with no problems, made perfect sense to me.
I blew through the Apache2 documentation in no time at all, makes perfect sense, no problem setting up a webserver.
But I cant even get ubuntu installed.

and I have learned the hard way that
dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg is a no no in Ubuntu.

maniacmusician
May 15th, 2008, 05:39 PM
and I have learned the hard way that
dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg is a no no in Ubuntu.

That's not necessarily true. It just depends on your situation and your setup. It is tricky if you're new to Linux though, so I understand your trepidation.

Afkpuz
May 15th, 2008, 06:07 PM
I wasn't hoping to make the site myself, since I can't code webpages. I was hoping for a sort of community effort with peer-reviewed tutorials. And I don't see why ubuntu wouldn't back something like this, especially if it explains specifically for ubuntu.

koenn
May 15th, 2008, 06:10 PM
What do you all think?

Are you sure there's a need for yet another ubuntu documentation / tutorial / .... site ?

there's the official documentation : https://help.ubuntu.com/
then there's the community maintained documentation : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
a lot of documentation and howto is also available in the various threads of ubuntuforums : http://ubuntuforums.org/
ubuntuforums then has a dedicated forum for tutorials and tips : http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=100
There are also the ubuntu screencasts : http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/
Some people maintain their own set of ubuntu tutorials : http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/ , http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ , ...
Sometimes it looks like every second member of ubuntuforums starts his or hers very own ubuntu blog, tutorial website, wiki, .... Some are mentioned here : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=538596

And then there's this site that tries to do the "one to bind them all" thing : http://ubuntuknowledge.org/

So, what problem are you trying to solve by adding yet another website to this list ?

John.Michael.Kane
May 15th, 2008, 06:35 PM
1.) Permissions-explaining why ubuntu uses them, which files are locked, etc.
Linux Files and File Permission (http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/usersguide/linux_ugfilesp.html)

2.)File structure-Simple explanation that / is like C: in windows, home folder is where you can save stuff, etc.
File structure is covered here Linux Directory Structure (http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/usersguide/linux_ugfilestruct.html)

3.) Installation methods:easy-talk about synaptic and add/remove
This is covered here Installing Software in Ubuntu (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installingsoftware)

4.) Command line-the simple basics, like running .sh files, moving files, changing directories, etc. Simple things that make command life easier
Guide to Linux File Command Mastery (http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub/articles/calish_file_commands.html)

Linux / Unix Command: sh (http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl1_sh.htm)

How to run the .sh file in shell script in Linux (http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/run-execute-sh-shell-script/)

5.) Desktop themes-How to change them, where to find them, how to change background, basic customization of the desktop. could also talk about alternate task bars
A how-to was written about this subject, however. It might need to be updated. HOWTO: Setup Desktop/Eyecandy. Tips'n'Tricks. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=77694&highlight=desktop+custom)

6.) Networking-explanation for simple things, like networking with windows computers, sharing files, mapping network drives
This covered here sharing between Linux and Windows (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ComprehensiveSambaGuide?highlight=(samba))

7.) Media playback help-explain how to get the proper codecs, play a DVD, etc. This is a big one!
Media codecs is covered hereMedia playback (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/mp3) and here Media playback 2 (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu?highlight=(medibuntu))

8.) Enabling desktop effects-explanation about video drivers, how to get compiz settings manager, etc
Desktop effects is covered here How to enable desktop effects in Ubuntu (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/desktopeffects)

9) Installation of ubuntu would also be a great topic that could be explained with pictures.
installing Ubuntu (with pictures) is covered here Installing Ubuntu (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installing) and here Graphical Installation (http://www.herman.linuxmaniac.net/p23.html)

At the end of the day it will not be about having the information available, it will be about getting users to read it, and or search for it.

RWells
May 15th, 2008, 06:38 PM
Are you sure there's a need for yet another ubuntu documentation / tutorial / .... site ?

there's the official documentation : https://help.ubuntu.com/
then there's the community maintained documentation : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/

I kinda agree with you here.
I would like to see the Official documentation more complete.

I cant find anything useful for a bigginer about bash in the official documentation, and I have come to realize that most folks here think Ubuntu use bash the same as other linux distros, which is not the case.

You are the second person I have seen
point to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/

Would you recomend this to a total noob? I have clicked on that link before and it seems to recomend not using the comunity docs, as a bigginer that makes me nervous, I have learned the hard way not to type in a command untill I have researched it and know what it will do.

koenn
May 15th, 2008, 07:01 PM
I kinda agree with you here.
I would like to see the Official documentation more complete.

I cant find anything useful for a bigginer about bash in the official documentation, and I have come to realize that most folks here think Ubuntu use bash the same as other linux distros, which is not the case.

You are the second person I have seen
point to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/

Would you recomend this to a total noob? I have clicked on that link before and it seems to recomend not using the comunity docs, as a bigginer that makes me nervous, I have learned the hard way not to type in a command untill I have researched it and know what it will do.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.
Ubuntu is a desktop/GUI oriented distro. The official stance is that using the shell should not be necessary (for "normal" use). So I can see that the official docu doesn't innlcude a bash tutorial.

What the community docu says is "use the official documentation first". Makes sense to me. Where you found a that recommendation to not use the community docs, I don't know.

RWells
May 15th, 2008, 07:27 PM
1.) Permissions-explaining why ubuntu uses them, which files are locked, etc.
Linux Files and File Permission (http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/usersguide/linux_ugfilesp.html)

2.)File structure-Simple explanation that / is like C: in windows, home folder is where you can save stuff, etc.
File structure is covered here Linux Directory Structure (http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/usersguide/linux_ugfilestruct.html)

3.) Installation methods:easy-talk about synaptic and add/remove
This is covered here Installing Software in Ubuntu (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installingsoftware)

4.) Command line-the simple basics, like running .sh files, moving files, changing directories, etc. Simple things that make command life easier
Guide to Linux File Command Mastery (http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub/articles/calish_file_commands.html)

Linux / Unix Command: sh (http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl1_sh.htm)

How to run the .sh file in shell script in Linux (http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/run-execute-sh-shell-script/)

5.) Desktop themes-How to change them, where to find them, how to change background, basic customization of the desktop. could also talk about alternate task bars
A how-to was written about this subject, however. It might need to be updated. HOWTO: Setup Desktop/Eyecandy. Tips'n'Tricks. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=77694&highlight=desktop+custom)

6.) Networking-explanation for simple things, like networking with windows computers, sharing files, mapping network drives
This covered here sharing between Linux and Windows (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ComprehensiveSambaGuide?highlight=(samba))

7.) Media playback help-explain how to get the proper codecs, play a DVD, etc. This is a big one!
Media codecs is covered hereMedia playback (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/mp3) and here Media playback 2 (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu?highlight=(medibuntu))

8.) Enabling desktop effects-explanation about video drivers, how to get compiz settings manager, etc
Desktop effects is covered here How to enable desktop effects in Ubuntu (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/desktopeffects)

9) Installation of ubuntu would also be a great topic that could be explained with pictures.
installing Ubuntu (with pictures) is covered here Installing Ubuntu (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installing) and here Graphical Installation (http://www.herman.linuxmaniac.net/p23.html)

At the end of the day it will not be about having the information available, it will be about getting users to read it, and or search for it.


This is what is kicking my but, I feel like a pingpong ball bouncing all over the web looking for Ubuntu info everywhere but where it seems it should be.

Then how do I know what to search for?

Then the very first link you point to is exactly the kinda info that gets me in trouble, am I wrong here or doesnt Ubuntu say not to do things like that site says to do things?

Way to many presumptions going on here.

I dont want to be on the web all the time.
I dont know any of the termonology.
I dont know which linux info works with Ubuntu and which dont.
I dont enjoy spending my time on these forums digging for somthing I don know any thing about.

The Linux stuff is pretty straight foward and I think I am getting a grip on that part of the deal.

Its the Ubuntu specific things that are tough to figure out.

Like for instance, Dont use that first link you pointed to even though you recomended it here on the Ubuntu forums.

Bou
May 15th, 2008, 07:41 PM
I think something like this (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8498/) would have a place at ubuntu.com


There are some websites with ubuntu video tutorials already, but in general they are for people with some computer experience.

I propose making some REALLY dumbed-down tutorials for the kind of people who think "the Internet" is that big blue "e" on their desktop. Things like:

-How can I watch movies on Ubuntu?
-How can I browse the Internet on Ubuntu?
-How can I chat with my friends on Ubuntu?
-How can I download contents from the Internet on Ubuntu?

You know, the kind of things our moms could be scared about not being able to do on Ubuntu, and that it does perfectly. Just show them how simple it is.

Then put them on Ubuntu.com for them to see!

Afkpuz
May 15th, 2008, 07:44 PM
I think the point I was trying to make is that it would be great if there was a site where we could point newbs that would teach them and give them help that they don't know they need yet. I know the information is out there, but I would argue that it's hard to know what you need to learn at the beginning. The problems I had with my system are what drove me to find the solutions, but I propose that we help eliminate that "wait for the problem so you can find the answer" mentality, at least for the basics, like I listed in my first post. The ideal would be a site that doesn't just say "search here for whatever you want to know about", but would rather have several basic lessons that every new ubuntu user needs to know. You know, a guided process. There are several things, like I listed in my first post, that every newbie wants/needs to figure out. A nice, newb friendly site with a curriculum (as opposed to thousands of articles about everything) would help alot of new converts transition smoother. I also think a part of the site could deal with how to find answers to your problems. It would just help so many newbs hit the ground running.

Also, linking this newb site to ubuntu.com and the whole installation process would do wonders for integration.


*Edit*
Or maybe, the site could really be a sort of help file that appears on the desktop after install that says something like "Learn how to use ubuntu", and then lead into a few of those basic things. Heck, maybe it could just point to the help files about each specific issue. Either way, I want to see some better help for newbs than "look it up" or "read this webpage which covers you issue+5 others." It great for newbs to learn how to find their own solutions, but I don't think EVERYTHING should be that way. It would have saved alot of time and energy if someone or something had taught me the basics I first listed when I was first starting.

John.Michael.Kane
May 15th, 2008, 08:24 PM
This is what is kicking my but, I feel like a pingpong ball bouncing all over the web looking for Ubuntu info everywhere but where it seems it should be.

Then how do I know what to search for?

Then the very first link you point to is exactly the kinda info that gets me in trouble, am I wrong here or doesnt Ubuntu say not to do things like that site says to do things?

Way to many presumptions going on here.

I dont want to be on the web all the time.
I dont know any of the termonology.
I dont know which linux info works with Ubuntu and which dont.
I dont enjoy spending my time on these forums digging for somthing I don know any thing about.

The Linux stuff is pretty straight foward and I think I am getting a grip on that part of the deal.

Its the Ubuntu specific things that are tough to figure out.

Like for instance, Dont use that first link you pointed to even though you recomended it here on the Ubuntu forums.

The info is out there. You can choose to learn info or not.

As for this notion about there being Ubuntu specific things. I am sorry but Linux etc does not circle Ubuntu only, and in 99.9% of most case commands pass in Linux are universal, and usable within Ubuntu.

Everything linked to in that list is straight forward, and explained clear. On top of that any command that one would not understand could easily be answered by posting the command here on the forums.

In the end your options are ask questions/search or by books on the topics you want to learn. You also have to be willing to accept the answers you receive even, if in certain cases they do not follow the "Ubuntu methods", as that is not the only way of doing things.

John.Michael.Kane
May 15th, 2008, 08:33 PM
I think the point I was trying to make is that it would be great if there was a site where we could point newbs that would teach them and give them help that they don't know they need yet. I know the information is out there, but I would argue that it's hard to know what you need to learn at the beginning. The problems I had with my system are what drove me to find the solutions, but I propose that we help eliminate that "wait for the problem so you can find the answer" mentality, at least for the basics, like I listed in my first post. The ideal would be a site that doesn't just say "search here for whatever you want to know about", but would rather have several basic lessons that every new ubuntu user needs to know. You know, a guided process. There are several things, like I listed in my first post, that every newbie wants/needs to figure out. A nice, newb friendly site with a curriculum (as opposed to thousands of articles about everything) would help alot of new converts transition smoother. I also think a part of the site could deal with how to find answers to your problems. It would just help so many newbs hit the ground running.

Also, linking this newb site to ubuntu.com and the whole installation process would do wonders for integration.


*Edit*
Or maybe, the site could really be a sort of help file that appears on the desktop after install that says something like "Learn how to use ubuntu", and then lead into a few of those basic things. Heck, maybe it could just point to the help files about each specific issue. Either way, I want to see some better help for newbs than "look it up" or "read this webpage which covers you issue+5 others." It great for newbs to learn how to find their own solutions, but I don't think EVERYTHING should be that way. It would have saved alot of time and energy if someone or something had taught me the basics I first listed when I was first starting.

As others have state there are numerous sites with all the info you are requesting. What you want is for all that info o be in one place.

Unfortunately I doubt that is not going to happen, as you would have to get all those who run the websites with the info to work together on one site, Or you build it yourself, and even then you would have to track down the original writes of the doc/how to, and ask if you can transfer or post it to your website unless they label it free to repost.

Afkpuz
May 15th, 2008, 08:51 PM
I don't want to compile a website with everything on it. That is the exact opposite of what I want. I want simple, guided lessons that are presented the the fresh convert ,apart from their own searching (i.e. a pop up, or desktop icon after a fresh install), that would make the switching process easier. The problem is too much information, not knowing what you need, and the new user finding the info. I realize that a website wouldn't really help now, but my vision would be a sort of "getting started" program on new installs which focuses on ubuntu basics. This still holds to my original idea of teaching newbies before they ask for help. We'd just have to make sure that it reaches the newbs on fresh install and that it is non-obtrusive and easily removed in unwanted.

RWells
May 15th, 2008, 09:40 PM
The info is out there. You can choose to learn info or not.

As for this notion about there being Ubuntu specific things. I am sorry but Linux etc does not circle Ubuntu only, and in 99.9% of most case commands pass in Linux are universal, and usable within Ubuntu.

Everything linked to in that list is straight forward, and explained clear. On top of that any command that one would not understand could easily be answered by posting the command here on the forums.

In the end your options are ask questions/search or by books on the topics you want to learn. You also have to be willing to accept the answers you receive even, if in certain cases they do not follow the "Ubuntu methods", as that is not the only way of doing things.

I agree that those sites are all clear and straight forward.
But there are some contradictions that are not at all clear.

Should I set a root password?
The first site you linked to says I should.

Would you mind writing a little tutorial here about why I should set a root password.

A google search generates 1,420,000 pages on the topic, do I read them all, if not which ones do I read


Would you mind helping me do a google search to help me find .bash_profile in ubuntu?
A google search generates about 1,460,000 pages, how do I know which ones to read?

Its not that the info isnt out there and its not that Im not willing to learn.

I am still trying to install Ubuntu.

For some reason this just seems backwards.

For some reason my mind wants to install Ubuntu first then start learning about bash.

RWells
May 15th, 2008, 09:55 PM
I don't want to compile a website with everything on it. That is the exact opposite of what I want. I want simple, guided lessons that are presented the the fresh convert ,apart from their own searching (i.e. a pop up, or desktop icon after a fresh install), that would make the switching process easier. The problem is too much information, not knowing what you need, and the new user finding the info. I realize that a website wouldn't really help now, but my vision would be a sort of "getting started" program on new installs which focuses on ubuntu basics. This still holds to my original idea of teaching newbies before they ask for help. We'd just have to make sure that it reaches the newbs on fresh install and that it is non-obtrusive and easily removed in unwanted.

Sorry about the inadvertent thread hijack.
I just really disagree that Ubuntu is documented good enough for a begginer.

I for one would love to see what you have to offer, aint no way you could confuse me any more than I already am.:lolflag:

koenn
May 15th, 2008, 10:09 PM
Should I set a root password?
The first site you linked to says I should.

A google search generates 1,420,000 pages on the topic, do I read them all, if not which ones do I read



Sorry about the inadvertent thread hijack.
I just really disagree that Ubuntu is documented good enough for a begginer.


A newbie would not even know what 'root' is, and thus wouldn't wonder about setting a root password or not. Nowhere during the installation procedure of Ubuntu or in normal every day use, root is mentioned.
The official documentation explains how to do system administration without even mentioning root : https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/administrative/C/

For those who do wonder about root, there's a clear explanation in the community maintained documention. It explains how you can enable root, but also says you don't need it.


It's there, all you have to do is read.

koenn
May 15th, 2008, 10:18 PM
I don't want to compile a website with everything on it. That is the exact opposite of what I want. I want simple, guided lessons that are presented the the fresh convert ,apart from their own searching (i.e. a pop up, or desktop icon after a fresh install), that would make the switching process easier. The problem is too much information, not knowing what you need, and the new user finding the info. I realize that a website wouldn't really help now, but my vision would be a sort of "getting started" program on new installs which focuses on ubuntu basics. This still holds to my original idea of teaching newbies before they ask for help. We'd just have to make sure that it reaches the newbs on fresh install and that it is non-obtrusive and easily removed in unwanted.

If you think your idea fills a need (either as a website or a 'guided tour' program or whatever), by all means go ahead. I just wanted to point out that others have had similar ideas, and, as you say, there is a lot of info out there.
I don't really believe in it. I have the impression people don't want to read instructions, or even a brief quick start leaflet, be it for Ubuntu, a telephone, or a laundry machine. They expect things to be obvious straight-away, or self-explicatory, and if that isn't the case, they expect personalized support (like posting on a forum and get spoon-fed step by step instructions). I'm afraid your guide / tour / webside / help /... is going to have very few readers.

nachomania
May 15th, 2008, 10:24 PM
screencasts.ubuntu.com seems to work well, the easier step compared to the forums.