Brits Want Microsoft Office 2007 Expelled From Classrooms

[Nem1976]

While I'm not posting this to bash on MS I thought this article was well worth the read.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207603293

[bufsabre666]

just for the cost and lack of new *useful* feature it should be banned, even the computers at my local library now run openoffice.org

OOo FTW

[grossaffe]

link is down... :(

[shifty2]

If people took the time to learn office 2007 they would realise that its actually a fantastic program. The new interface is much more intuitive once you get used to it. Ok, I can't justify the price tag, but as a program it is the best office suite around by a margin (Latex excluded of course :p)

[UnknownElement]

If people took the time to learn office 2007 they would realise that its actually a fantastic program. The new interface is much more intuitive once you get used to it. Ok, I can't justify the price tag, but as a program it is the best office suite around by a margin (Latex excluded of course :p)
Yeah, I like it too. I have nothing really against it, but I know there's plenty of people who'd prefer not to have to relearn the GUI. As for LaTeX, bah - LyX is where it's at! ;)

[public_void]

The biggest issue is the file formats. Many times people have asked me about documents saved using MS Office 2007 not working in an earlier version. I'm waiting for Open Office 3 to handle the MS Office 2007 formats. At the moment it seems the beta hasn't been doing too well.

[aquavitae]

As for LaTeX, bah - LyX is where it's at! ;)Lyx is just a frontend... good, but just a frontend.

But I disagree about MSOffice. The only area it beats OpenOffice is the grammar check. The commands are never where you expect them, I've never found the logic behind its numbering system, and it seems to follow different rules on different computers. I know some of the reasons for this (e.g. the normal template) but that doesn't make it right.

[UnknownElement]

Lyx is just a frontend... good, but just a frontend.
Fair enough. I'm writing my thesis using LyX because my supervisor said (jokingly I think) "if you write your thesis in Word, I'll kill you". And I don't want to be killed! Hence, LyX. I'm not game enough to code my thesis using LaTeX directly.


But I disagree about MSOffice. The only area it beats OpenOffice is the grammar check. The commands are never where you expect them, I've never found the logic behind its numbering system, and it seems to follow different rules on different computers. I know some of the reasons for this (e.g. the normal template) but that doesn't make it right.
It also beats OO in its interaction with other (Microsoft) tools, such as SharePoint. It's got very good collaboration with many of these tools which is very important for business. Perhaps not so much for regular users though, but it's one reason why Office will stay in the corporate world for some time.

[aquavitae]

Fair enough. I'm writing my thesis using LyX because my supervisor said (jokingly I think) "if you write your thesis in Word, I'll kill you". And I don't want to be killed! Hence, LyX. I'm not game enough to code my thesis using LaTeX directly.Ditto, although when I told my supervisor I was using latex, I just got a blank look and he asked for a hard copy!


It also beats OO in its interaction with other (Microsoft) tools, such as SharePoint. It's got very good collaboration with many of these tools which is very important for business. Perhaps not so much for regular users though, but it's one reason why Office will stay in the corporate world for some time.
And thats another thing I have against it. The only reason it interacts better is because MS won't give any details of how it works, so no-one else can write software that interacts unless the use MS libraries, thereby limiting themselves to windows. And we don't like being limited to windows.

Imagine if a comany used latex instead of word and svn instead of sharepoint. It would all work perfectly (probably better than MS), be completely free, be cross platform, and have the support of the entire FOSS community. The alternate is to pay a huge fee to be locked into a specific operating system, closed source document formats, relatively buggy software, and poor support.

EDIT: And the common excuse of it being 'industry standard' is a myth invented my MS to increase sales. What could be more standard than ASCII!!

[popch]

What could be more standard than ASCII!!

American Standard Code for Information.

Not so very applicable for some.

[smoker]

from link:

The agency said U.K. schools can consider using Vista or Office 2008 software only when they are buying new batches of PCs. Even then, however, they're advised to take a long looked at alternatives based on Linux and other open source products, such as the OpenOffice.org desktop package.

this is commonsense

[aquavitae]

Good point. But at least it can be edited without special software.

[gn2]

this is commonsense

When did any UK government IT scheme ever utilise any commonsense?

Maybe they're about to start..... :-)

[kikoman]

If people took the time to learn office 2007 they would realise that its actually a fantastic program.

If people took the time to learn OpenOffice.org, they wouldn't need to learn every 4 years and spend $ on upgrade every 4 years using peoples tax money (for govt. public schools) up until Office 2007, Office 2011, Office 2015 ~ Office 3000 with the same results if one use an OOo.
:lolflag:.

[popch]

When did any UK government IT scheme ever utilise any commonsense?

Maybe they're about to start.....

Apparently they are not authorised to apply common sense, perhaps because it can not be licensed.

[fatality_uk]

I have spent a few months banging my head against a brick wall with regards to IT in UK schools. I posted a thread a while ago about this topic. Since then I have been in touch with DFES and they have wall after wall regarding costs.

I have tried to find out the total cost to UK schools for Microsoft licenses and was given the reply that this is "confidential" due to license agreements. It was hinted that this was due to a gagging clause with certain vendors as they didn't want "commercially" sensitive information to be in the public domain. The figures are known

On a local level, governing boards for some schools have been more co-operative, but still haven't given me details that I could use to any great effect.

For instance, this site shows gross spending
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/spending_review/spend_sr04/press/spend_sr04_press08.cfm
but if I want to do a cost breakdown to compare like for like, OpenOffice against Microsoft Office for instance, that figure is not available.

I am currently working with two local schools, both secondary schools, to build a "migration" plan to enable them to move across to some level of FOSS within the IT provision.

the work continues...

[smoker]

I have tried to find out the total cost to UK schools for Microsoft licenses and was given the reply that this is "confidential" due to license agreements. It was hinted that this was due to a gagging clause with certain vendors as they didn't want "commercially" sensitive information to be in the public domain. The figures are known ...

this is public money, there should be total transparency about what money is spent, and where. try writing to you local mp and msp. i had a problem a while back and wrote to mine, but also sent the same letter to the opposition mp, and let them both know each had a copy. i think it kind of urged them on a bit!:)



Originally Posted by gn2 http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4955321#post4955321)
When did any UK government IT scheme ever utilise any commonsense?

Maybe they're about to start.....

hmm, when you think about ID cards, disks being lost all over the place, makes you wonder
:lolflag:

[uraldinho]

If UK classrooms are anything like UK universities, then I'm afraid OSS has no chance. The uni I attended got all MS products for peanut money. The price works out to be around £2 ($4) annual subscription per PC, that included Windows, Visual Studio, Office, etc. £2 per PC is basically the same as giving it away. These organisations are supposed to teach the kids about standards, and technology, instead they make the kids use a closed box OS with non-standard software. I have nothing against closed source software, but it must be standards compliant.

Moreover, IT contracts in the UK are complete shambles as well. One only needs to look at what happened in the new Heathrow T5 to realise that UK government IT contracts do not work. There are many examples like the T5, eg, agencies losing data, systems crashing, etc. I feel sorry for the UK tax payers.

UK, especially Cambridge has a very strong IT R&D background. Most of the small devices are designed there (every single chip in the iPhone is designed in Cambridge), but it is a shame that the universities and government agencies don't work as well as they should do.