So, I was reading through the Linux pages on the GNU website...

[Barrucadu]

...and they sound just a little bitter that Linux became the more famous one.

[SomeGuyDude]

"The name “GNU” is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not Unix”; it is pronounced g-noo, as one syllable with no vowel sound between the g and the n."

The only way to spell "g-noo" is r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d. GNU = noo. Like the animal.

[fatality_uk]

Not bitter as such. The GNU guys see Linux as "just" a kernel and that all that goes around it, is GNU.

I see their point to some extent, but the way the Mr. Stallman approaches the subject often gets my backup. But the guy has done as much, if not more, than 99% of people to bring us to the situation we are in today in which Linux can thrive.

Linux owes a LOT to GNU and vice versa.

[songshu]

the GNU kernel was supposed to be the HURD kernel, but it was actually never really finished.

Hence the reason people reffered to the "complete" system as the "linux version" i think.
and it basically just sounds a lot more cachy to say Linux.

[drascus]

The Reason us GNU fans are bitter has nothing to do with the Fame of calling the system Linux. you see The whole point the GNU project began was to develop a Free Software Operating system. One that would respect peoples Freedoms and Spread Freedom wherever it went. By '91 the whole system was mostly completed the only misssing piece was the Kernel. The Hurd wasn't done and had some major technical issues due to its design. So when the Linux Kernel was released under the GPL people put together all the GNU software with Linux as the Kernel and there became a totally Free Operating system.
That would seem like mission accomplished. However people began calling the whole system linux. When obviously most of the system was GNU. This created a duel problem. First people never would even know that the GNU project was tied to linux some people think it is a totally seperate project. Secondly people atributed everything to Linus Torvalds and Gave him and his opinions a lot of clout.
The problems here are that people were using the system but didn't learn about Freedom and the political issues. People were mostly learning about the views of Mr. Torvalds. The apolitical views that you should only care about your convenience and Freedom doesn't really matter to much.
This issue leads to an environment today where people don't really think twice about installing non-free software on their GNu/Linux system. And in that way the Freedoms the GNU project were started for are slowly slipping away as more and more non-free packages make their way onto our systems.
So I think people should call it GNU/Linux that way we can give both equal credit and also so that people can have the issues of Freedom brought to their attention. Because if we don't teach people about Freedom we may not have it in the future.

[Phil Airtime]

The problems here are that people were using the system but didn't learn about Freedom and the political issues.

I just want to use my computer. I don't want to take a political science degree to do so. Why should I "learn" about this stuff when my computer works fine with Linux?

[Kinst]

Ultimately, Guh-noooooo is a stupid name and linux is catchy.

[songshu]

I just want to use my computer. I don't want to take a political science degree to do so. Why should I "learn" about this stuff when my computer works fine with Linux?

we all just want to use our computer, that is the whole point.
the problem with the software industry often has often been that they try to restrict the way we use it.

if i buy a new house already furbushed, i want to be able to change the furniture and to paint the walls after i move in, without violating same intelectual property rights of the architect.
this sounds silly in almost any circumstance, but it does seem to apply to the software industry.

RMS comes from a physics background and that is probably how he sees software as well "the science of matter and its motion.as well as space and time"

what happened if somebody had a copyright to gravity? would be a funny world.

i don't have a dregree in political science and usually i just take it for granted that my computer works, but i sure am happy and gratefull that some people stood up 20 years ago.

[vexorian]

So to let the usual ubuntu user understand this, it is equivalent to when other Linux people are "bitter" at Ubuntu.

[steveneddy]

The Reason us GNU fans are bitter has nothing to do with the Fame of calling the system Linux. you see The whole point the GNU project began was to develop a Free Software Operating system. One that would respect peoples Freedoms and Spread Freedom wherever it went. By '91 the whole system was mostly completed the only misssing piece was the Kernel. The Hurd wasn't done and had some major technical issues due to its design. So when the Linux Kernel was released under the GPL people put together all the GNU software with Linux as the Kernel and there became a totally Free Operating system.
That would seem like mission accomplished. However people began calling the whole system linux. When obviously most of the system was GNU. This created a duel problem. First people never would even know that the GNU project was tied to linux some people think it is a totally seperate project. Secondly people atributed everything to Linus Torvalds and Gave him and his opinions a lot of clout.
The problems here are that people were using the system but didn't learn about Freedom and the political issues. People were mostly learning about the views of Mr. Torvalds. The apolitical views that you should only care about your convenience and Freedom doesn't really matter to much.
This issue leads to an environment today where people don't really think twice about installing non-free software on their GNu/Linux system. And in that way the Freedoms the GNU project were started for are slowly slipping away as more and more non-free packages make their way onto our systems.
So I think people should call it GNU/Linux that way we can give both equal credit and also so that people can have the issues of Freedom brought to their attention. Because if we don't teach people about Freedom we may not have it in the future.

[GRAMMAR POLICE]

If I wanted to be taken seriously among my own peers, simple grammatical and punctuation errors in posts that one is adamant about should be avoided. Firefox is free and has a spell check function enabled by default so one could avoid the spelling errors.

[/GRAMMAR POLICE]

I agree with the GNU/Linux argument, and agree that it is valid, but I think that it is cumbersome to read and say and when someone speaks of GNU/Linux it sounds confusing. It's just seems much easier to say Linux, rather than to tag the word with a GNU first.

Frankly, I really don't use the Linux word much, as I prefer to use the name of my distribution more than the word Linux.

When asked, "Hey, what's that? It looks cool.", I always say "Ubuntu".

[eragon100]

Yeah I like linus view. I think I manage to use more close than open software on this ubuntu-only pc :lolflag:

Web browser: opera with flash plugin

All multimedia codecs installed

Nvidia restricted drivers

Lots of windows (long live wine!) and linux non-free games (savage 1, GTA: vice city, GTA: san andreas, uplink, ET:QW, regnum online, etc. etc. I do also play Nexuiz and battle for wesnoth a lot, and some other free blah blah blah fun software games).

Google earth, to see some funny places

Skype for internet telephony

virtualbox closed source edition (it has some features the open-source one doesn't have. I never use those features and don't even know what some of them are, but it's a good feeling they are there :)) to play heretic 2 (yes, another closed-source commercial linux game, ported a few years back by loki software) in an ubuntu 7.10 VM

And I sincerely hope that Itunes will get a linux version.

When will the FSF finally release that 85% of linux users, see this poll made by me, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=790129 do not care about using closed-source or do it out of necesity, and stop their stupid campaign which is a huge wast of money :mad:

And now weren't some distro's such as suse going to have problem with their microsoft agreements if torvalds would down- eeehhh upgrade to GPL version 3 license? Something along the lines of not existing anymore because they wouldn't be allowed to distribute the linux kernel?

If they do and the fsf gets sued, I for one sincerely hope they lose :mad:

I have released some steam and am happy, so I will now press the submit button and go play savage 1 :)

Also, this is the last thread I will post in about FLOSS (O it's FOSS, FLOSS is stuff to clean your teeth with in Dutch) because it's getting boring.

[vexorian]

When will the FSF finally release that 85% of linux users, see this poll made by me, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=790129 do not care about using closed-source or do it out of necesity, and stop their stupid campaign which is a huge wast of money Whether they care or not, doesn't matter, proprietary software is a danger vector and will always be, I cannot understand how some people are so proud that they use opera when there are a vast quantity of FOSS alternatives that are even superior in quality. It only shows they are bad at picking stuff.

Your conclussion s flawed anyways, the poll is just asking if you use it or not, not if you care. Besides, ubuntuforums is far from being a good random sample, and less than 100 guys voted, that's far from being a representative sample. Sorry.


And now weren't some distro's such as suse going to have problem with their microsoft agreements if torvalds would down- eeehhh upgrade to GPL version 3 license? Something along the lines of not existing anymore because they wouldn't be allowed to distribute the linux kernel?
- Strawman
- Linus has not upgraded to GPLv3
- SLED remains a danger to freedom.



If they do and the fsf gets sued, I for one sincerely hope they loseI sincerely hope you stop being an ungrateful prick.

[eragon100]

I said "OR do it out of neccesity". You are right about the fact that there aren't many voters, but the poll has only been open for 2 hours now, and 10 votes in w hours is a lot. And with 85 % vs 15 % I figure it's pretty save to say that a majority uses closed-source stuff.

And actually, I used firefox, but atleast for me, the beta is unstable and uses tons of memory. The latest opera beta, looks better, runs faster, uses a lot less memory, has these handy shortcuts you can set on startup called portals, and so on and so on. Why not use it? Definitely not because I can't see the stupid 0's and 1's :lolflag:

And I am grateful to the GNU project for making 90 % of what linux is, however I don't like, for example, their legal campaign against binaruy-only drivers, because if they win, the nvidia drivers cease to exist, and I won't be able to play games anymore. The moment it becomes impossible to play any 3d games on linux with nvidia cards, all of the linux gamers (such as me, although i do play in wine I always buy linux games) are going to run not walk back to windows. Exit linux :lolflag:

[Eisenwinter]

[GRAMMAR POLICE]

If I wanted to be taken seriously among my own peers, simple grammatical and punctuation errors in posts that one is adamant about should be avoided. Firefox is free and has a spell check function enabled by default so one could avoid the spelling errors.

[/GRAMMAR POLICE]
<GRAMMAR POLICE v2.0>

It's just seems...
</GRAMMAR POLICE v2.0>

[vexorian]

And I am grateful to the GNU project for making 90 % of what linux is, however I don't like, for example, their legal campaign against binaruy-only drivers, because if they win, the nvidia drivers cease to exist, and I won't be able to play games anymore. The moment it becomes impossible to play any 3d games on linux with nvidia cards, all of the linux gamers (such as me, although i do play in wine I always buy linux games) are going to run not walk back to windows. Exit linuxStrawman. They don't want to stop you from using 3d games, they want you to stop needing proprietary garbage to do so. The reason we don't have good OSS nvidia drivers is because of binary blobs.


:lolflag: :lolflag: :lolflag:

Are you a troll? Cause I don't think so. But that's the impression you are giving me by massing that stuff, I recommend you to stop it.

Also, I use proprietary software when needed, I still agree with most of what the FSF says and avoid that silly proprietary stuff when it is not needed. I think it is understandable to use proprietary software when it is necessary, but that's not a reason for complacency or fooling ourselves into thinking it is all right to do so. Also, if it really is not needed, why use it at all? What I really don't like is when people use proprietary stuff just for a couple of useless features, ignoring their wide list of anti-features.

I am not going to blame you or anybody for using proprietary stuff when it really is necessary, after all it is not our fault, it is the non-sense going on the IT world's fault. But I still think that such things should be avoided when possible, also research and work must be done periodically to ensure that those necessary proprietary stuff get FOSS alternatives.

Well, that's how I think anyways. I guess you are free to take your ubuntu install and ruin all the freedom other people worked so hard to give to you by installing Opera, it is a free world...

[songshu]

<GRAMMAR POLICE v2.0>

</GRAMMAR POLICE v2.0>

don't be to harsh on the guy, he already finds it confusing and difficult to say gnu and linux in one sentence.

you expect him to know the differnce between spelling and grammar?

[Ozor Mox]

And I am grateful to the GNU project for making 90 % of what linux is, however I don't like, for example, their legal campaign against binaruy-only drivers, because if they win, the nvidia drivers cease to exist, and I won't be able to play games anymore. The moment it becomes impossible to play any 3d games on linux with nvidia cards, all of the linux gamers (such as me, although i do play in wine I always buy linux games) are going to run not walk back to windows. Exit linux

They aren't trying to stop Nvidia/ATI supporting Linux by banning their closed source drivers, they are trying to encourage them to open source their drivers. Big difference.

I use closed source drivers and codecs in order to make my hardware work properly and be able to watch DVDs, listen to music etc. I do not have any other closed source software installed at the moment. If I needed it I would, but I always choose open source over closed source where possible.

Also, I call it Ubuntu and, more generally, Linux. I don't usually use GNU/Linux because of its awkwardness, but then I don't think it's as important as perhaps RMS thinks for people to learn about GNU and software freedom. I had no idea about all that before I started using Ubuntu, but it didn't take long to pick up it.

Anyone who thinks that caring about free software is stupid, remember that you are essentially taking and using the hard work of Stallman and co. who stood up for software freedom in the 80s, so to then insult their cause is a little...selfish?

[eragon100]

Yes, of course they are trying to do that. And ATI has released 800 or so pages of documentation. Bot with linux having 0.65 % marketshare, I think nvidia will rather abandon the linux market than give up their business secrets. End result? Exactly: I won't be able to play 3d games on linux with my nvidia card.

Also, why only use it if it's absolutely necessary?

I like to play savage 1 because it's a fun game to play. I am not going to have less fun because of some ideology. I don't need it's source code. And don't tell me the security of society is damaged because I play some close-sourced game. If security is harmed at all, it would be my security, and it's my choose wether or not I think it is worth the risk.
I don't have any sensitive data on my computer, so in my opinion, it is. The fun I have in playing it is bigger than the possible safety risk or the loss of freedom. That's a choice everyone has to make for him/herself. And that is what a license agreement is for, and that's is why it shouldn't be illegal to make closed-source software. We indeed life in a free world.