The Redmond threath to ULCP's

[billgoldberg]

Disturbing news.

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=D04AB1F8-17A4-0F78-310F5F4479DEEE86

[barbedsaber]

/scream with rage](*,):cry:

[zmjjmz]

You know the WiBrain B1? They offer an XP version with a touch screen.
Guess what.
They won't have touch screens.
MS is killing themselves here, 2GB RAM will be perfectly feasible along with a 160GB HDD. But people will still want to include processors that are under 1GHz for battery life and such.

[teet]

Microsoft plans to charge PC makers US$26 for Windows XP Home Edition for ULPCs sold in emerging markets such as China and India, and $32 for those sold in developed markets, the documents show. PC makers who are eligible for its Market Development Agreement, however, can get a discount of as much as $10 off those prices, the documents say.

That's pretty darn cheap. If 2 versions of the same ULPC (one windows and one linux) only differ by $30, I think a lot of people will choose to "upgrade" to windows. Heck, I might even do it...just to have the windows license around in case I ever decided to dual boot or something.

-teet

[zmjjmz]

You know the WiBrain B1? They offer an XP version with a touch screen.
Guess what.
They won't have touch screens.
MS is killing themselves here, 2GB RAM will be perfectly feasible along with a 160GB HDD. But people will still want to include processors that are under 1GHz for battery life and such.

As it is though, the WiBrain's XP one costs 150$ more than the Linux one (650$).
Now it won't even have a touchscreen (unless they're buying it retail... but that can't last)

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Damn...

"Oh no, Linux is proving itself useful in a market we haven't supported!"
"No problem, we'll just bribe the manufacturers to use Windows."

"What about the users?"
"Who cares about them?!"

In essence, they are accepting that their product is terrible but still intent on shoving it at people. Doesn't Microsoft dominate enough markets already? Have they ever heard of "slow and steady wins the race"; eg: "Stop running in circles and improve your damn product so people want to use it"?

As for ease of use, I still think Linux has better localization ;)

[imT]

do i get it right ? M$ is feeling vulnerable to linux ? that is so cool :)

[Whiffle]

So they're going to sell a crappy computer with XP Home in order to compete with linux? Ha. I doubt it will work.

[kevin11951]

this will never happen.

however there is a good chance it could, but because of the hardware restrictions, they will never do it (or maybe some will, but not all). especially the touch screen no-no, people want to be able to interact directly with a desktop with such a small computer, thats why smart phones have touch screens, their just easier to use.

plus companies have already invested into linux, they are not going to just turn around and stop it, to use windows (in the process, they will have to change everything if one of their specs is "out of line")

[smoker]

ms must really feel threatened, but if so, why don't they produce a light version of windows (any average joe with nlite can do it, why can't they with all the resources and developers they have?)

anyway, the cost of hardware is on a continually downward spiral, there will always be one or two manufacturers bringing out cheaper and cheaper low cost computers capable of doing the basics. the $200 dollar laptop, will be $150 next year, $100 the year after... etc.

[Half-Left]

Microsoft are trying to stop any rot of their market dominance and monopoly to Linux in any way necessary. It means that if people get to like Linux on their cheap low spec laptop, that will mean they will lightly next buy a Linux computer for upgrading.

Selling XP is the only way and means bad deals to the customer and no innovation for them, if you can't complete stop them first. This really shows that Linux is getting a foot hold in the market and they see Linux of way more of a threat than Apple ever will be.

[cardinals_fan]

I don't care if Microsoft tries to muscle Linux out of the ultraportable market - it's called competition. But having a software company try to dictate my hardware selection is outrageous.

[ShodanjoDM]

If the unstripped - original - versions of the XP easily got infected by viruses / malwares, I wonder how it'll be with the UMPC's XP?

Even more interesting when considering some of those small and low powered machines might not have enough processing power to deal with anti virus / anti malware softwares as effectively as "common" PC's/Laptops.

[vexorian]

Microsoft asks cheap laptops to remain uncompetitive so they can still sell Vista.


http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/145719/microsoft_to_limit_capabilities_of_cheap_laptops.h tml

So, most likely, it would be technologically possible to get a very good laptop for a low price, but nobody will make it since Microsoft wants you to please buy the expensive Vista laptop instead...

The program is outlined in confidential documents that Microsoft sent to PC makers last month, and which were obtained by IDG News Service. The goal apparently is to limit the hardware capabilities of ULPCs so that they don't eat into the market for mainstream PCs running Windows Vista, something both Microsoft and the PC vendors would want to avoid.

[swoll1980]

Isn't this illegal?

[myusername]

probably but seeing as how microsoft is God ugh...wait i meant the biggest pc company

[inportb]

Now that is very interesting... so they want to keep people from running Linux on cheap laptops?

[ugm6hr]

I think you have misrepresented the agreement.

It does not ask them to be uncompetitive, but just that XP will not be available for them unless the have very low end hardware.

Essentially, having decided to offer XP Home to ULPCs, they don't want it to be offered on "regular" modern laptops (which will have to be sold with Vista).

This is reasonable, since the rationale for offering XP Home is to undermine the inroads that Linux has made in this market, without jeopardising their Vista market (which is presumably more lucrative).


Now that is very interesting... so they want to keep people from running Linux on cheap laptops?

Obviously they don't want Linux to take any of the PC market away from them. Hardly surprising.

[LaRoza]

Now that is very interesting... so they want to keep people from running Linux on cheap laptops?

Of course.

[SuperSon!c]

MERGE ALERT

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=789149&page=2

[z0mbie]

Microsoft is launching a program to promote the use of its Windows OS in ultra low-cost PCs, one effect of which will be to limit the hardware capabilities of this type of device, IDG News Service has learned.

Microsoft plans to offer PC makers steep discounts on Windows XP Home Edition to encourage them to use that OS instead of Linux on ultra low-cost PCs (ULPCs). To be eligible, however, the PC vendors that make ULPCs must limit screen sizes to 10.2 inches and hard drives to 80G bytes, and they cannot offer touch-screen PCs.

pcworld.com (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/145719/microsoft_to_limit_capabilities_of_cheap_laptops.h tml)

[SuperSon!c]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=789149

[fatality_uk]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=789149Why???

This is uncompetitive and frankly it needs to be addressed. The problem is that every time Micro-soft do have a fine imposed, they can spin out the legals for years and then often get anti-trust case thrown out on appeal.

A clear message should be sent that with a market monopoly comes responsibilities. If a fine is imposed, these agencies need to enforce it within 12 months

[SuperSon!c]

Why???



?? i don't know why, i didn't impose it. i think it's ridiculous of MS to even consider something like it.

[gn2]

Shows that MS don't want "entry-level" hardware to be educating PC/Laptop users that they don't need Windows.

Earlier in the week Ebuyer UK received a stock of 20 Linux Eee900 laptops and a stock of 20 of the Xp version.

Guess which ones sold out?

The fact that Asus have chosen to offer a Windows version of the Eee900 has put me off the Eee "brand"

I'm going to wait to see what else will come along this summer, there are a few very interesting alternatives in the pipeline.

[madjr]

Earlier in the week Ebuyer UK received a stock of 20 Linux Eee900 laptops and a stock of 20 of the Xp version.

Guess which ones sold out?



what was the price difference between the two?

if the XP version was more expensive then the buyers must be morons.

how many did the linux version sold?

anyway a stock of 20 hardly means much in terms of global figures

[DarkOx]

This is uncompetitive and frankly it needs to be addressed.

I disagree. How is this uncompetitive? If anything, it sounds like a business opportunity. If one company promotes a cheap laptop running a 5-year-old version of an OS that's -- in all likelyhood -- only supported enough to keep from handing Linux the market on a silver platter, versus another company that's selling a much better laptop for the same price, with an OS fully supported by the entire FOSS community, I'd hope the Linux laptop would do better on its own.

[el mariachi]

the eeepc seems to be the best option if you look at the price (not counting with the cute OLPC), but Windows must run real slow in that... A friend of mine has a Vaio ULPC with WindowsXp and it's torture to use it...from bootup to shutdown I just wanted to install Linux on that thing!

People are dumb (the general public at least) and I believe that, when faced with the option of a cheaper pc with more features like touch screen and another, more expensive and bareboned, but with Windows, they'll go with the Linux one.

[madjr]

the eeepc seems to be the best option if you look at the price (not counting with the cute OLPC), but Windows must run real slow in that... A friend of mine has a Vaio ULPC with WindowsXp and it's torture to use it...from bootup to shutdown I just wanted to install Linux on that thing!

People are dumb (the general public at least) and I believe that, when faced with the option of a cheaper pc with more features like touch screen and another, more expensive and bareboned, but with Windows, they'll go with the Linux one.

everyone wants cheaper, they don't care too much about the pre-installed OS as long as it works.

same with smart phones. No one really cares whats under the hood as long as it works and is cool.

[el mariachi]

yeah... iphones....

[gn2]

what was the price difference between the two?

if the XP version was more expensive then the buyers must be morons.

how many did the linux version sold?

anyway a stock of 20 hardly means much in terms of global figures

The linux one was about £0.80 (US$1.60-ish) more expensive.
When I made my last post there were ten Linux ones left.

[mkrahmeh]

Disturbing news.

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=D04AB1F8-17A4-0F78-310F5F4479DEEE86

MS has astonishing marketing strategies..i bet that MS can launch a crapy OS (dilebrately) and make it to the market..

this is just another attempt to compete with linux..
just like
http://www.microsoft.com/opensource

[smoker]

MS has astonishing marketing strategies..i bet that MS can launch a crapy OS (dilebrately) and make it to the market..


they did, and called it Vista :lolflag:

[BigSilly]

They can do what they like, but they simply can't win this one in the long term. It's not just about the cost of the OS; it's the flexibility. With Linux, a small device maker can tailor the OS to look exactly how it wants, and do the things they desire it to do on demand. With Windows you get....Windows.

It might be superficially attractive to companies at first to stick XP into devices, but they'll see how limiting it can be in the long run.

[fatality_uk]

The strides OpenOffice has made in compatibility between native Microsoft Office documents and it's own make the need for an XP {Lite} rather redundant. Let's face it, you wont want to run Quake 4 on an eeePc!

Microsoft WONT want to spend time and effort dragging XP kicking and screaming to a point of stability and speed required for long term use. I honestly think Microsoft have come to the party late yet again.

I am sure the facts, when they come out once again, will show that Microsoft rather than offering Asus et al a significant alternative, have wielded a large LEGAL stick with threats over patents and a small carrot in the shape of discounts for a inappropriate operating system.

[smoker]

the fact of the matter is that low cost hardware is here, and is only going to get cheaper. most people that buy a low cost laptop/notebook want it for portability, internet, email, chat. all this can be done quicker, safer, and for longer (battery charge time) using linux. once it begins to dawn on users that xp, with all the additional security crap, and probably the bloat-trial ware, that most oems add (as a service to the customer!), plus having to pay and install, eg, office, or whatever, slow the machine down to an unusable crawl, sale of xp machines will decline.

ms want to stop people using linux, but they have also noticed a money-spinner selling xp again, but when you are beginning to see the advent of sub £100 laptops hitting the market, even ms must realise they are fighting a losing battle.

[el mariachi]

it's impossible to have a sub-200€ notebook with WindowsXp installed... it's 35€ vs. 0€
and the comment on flexibility for the manufacturer is soooo true! You need way too much crap to make WindowsXP work under an EEE as with Linux it's a feather.

[gn2]

once it begins to dawn on users that xp, with all the additional security crap, and probably the bloat-trial ware, that most oems add (as a service to the customer!), plus having to pay and install, eg, office, or whatever, slow the machine down to an unusable crawl,

I had a bit of a heated debate with one of the MicroMart staff writers on just this topic recently on the MM forums.
I proposed that Linux might be better suited to the Eee than Xp due to Xp's requirement for virus definition update checking at boot and he went off on one.

I used to think that MicroMart was fairly OS agnostic publication and unbiased in it's stance, but that doesn't seem to be the case with some of the staff.

[songshu]

competition on the market is good. Ms is willing to cut the prices considerately, eventough its with the old written off XP, also Vista is dramatically decreasing in price fast..

lets see how far they can drop the prices in order to compete with Linux and exactly how long they can keep up without any of the ridiculous margins they are used to.

i'm curious who the first manufacturer is who's not sticking to the limiting agreement. i want one.


keep the pressure comming

[el mariachi]

even if Microsoft drops their prices a lot, Linux will still be 0€$£§ nothing, nada, niente. :D
it's tough to compete with that (and all that flexibility and openness)

[imT]

i don't think M$ should drastically drop their prices, i think they should concentrate in making a more reliable os that is immune to viruses and has no fragmentation problems(kind of unix/linux ones) and can also be compatible with the older windows games.

[el mariachi]

that's never going to happen... compatibility is not in their dictionary