What's better than whining on the forums? Making a difference.

[aysiu]

I think it rather makes sense that new forum members assume that the Ubuntu Forums (they are the official forums, after all) would be a channel for talking to the people responsible for Ubuntu. This is not the case, though, at all--the forums are separate from Canonical, and they're run entirely by volunteers (other Ubuntu users).

So if you have the least bit inkling to complain that Ubuntu doesn't work or should do this or should do that, please keep in mind that all you're doing is blowing off steam--ranting, as it were... which is a perfectly fine thing, if that's all you want to do. We all get frustrated from time to time (a co-worker of mine, just today, said she wanted to throw her Windows computer out the window because Excel kept crashing on her), but we should recognize ranting for what it is--ranting. Ranting doesn't change things. Ranting just helps us let out a little stress, express ourselves.

If you really want to make a difference (for yourself and/or others), when you encounter a problem, do one of the following:

1. File a bug report: You can file a bug report (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs) to let the actual developers (not just random forum members like myself) know what's going wrong with Ubuntu. If you truly believe something in Ubuntu is malfunctioning (not just a bad installation, not just your own incompetence at setting things up), this is the best channel for such problems.

2. Figure out the problem: most likely, especially if you're new to Linux in general and Ubuntu specifically, the "problem" is really just you screwing things up. I'd say (as a six-month newbie myself) that 99% of the problems I've had in Linux have been my fault--I just had no clue what I was doing, and I screwed something up.

Luckily, there's help. Ask around on the forums. Search Google. I've found searches like site:ubuntuforums.org howto nameoftheproblem are good ones to do in Google. And if you're experiencing a problem, likely someone else has too. Searching for errors can be a good way to find the solution to fixing those errors.

3. Find another distro: I happen to think Ubuntu is the kitten's meow, but that could be just me. Ubuntu is not for everyone, believe it or not (for more on this idea, please read Is Ubuntu for You? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63315) and What does "for human beings" mean? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=379699&highlight=human+beings#post379699)), and maybe it's not for you. That doesn't mean Linux isn't for you. In fact, one of Linux's strong points is its variety. If you're pretty certain Ubuntu's not for you, but you'd like to try other Linux distros, The Linux Distro Chooser Quiz (http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/) may be a good place to start. One of the common complaints about Ubuntu is that it lacks (nonfree) multimedia codecs, for example, and several Linux distributions actually include these codecs by default (Ubuntu by definition--being free--cannot include these codecs (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy), but you can install them yourself (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/nonfree)).

Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, and Sabayon are all Linux distros that include popular proprietary codecs by default.

And if you want new versions of software as they appear and not every six months, PCLinuxOS and Arch Linux are both "rolling release" distros.

4. Stick with Windows: just as Ubuntu isn't for everyone, Linux is also not for everyone. It's entirely possible that someone may have coaxed you into Linux, telling you lies about how it's panacea for the world's computing problems and works on every piece of hardware with little to no effort. Sorry if that happened. However, just because you don't like Windows doesn't mean you'll necessarily like Linux. Windows may be the best option for you.

5. Post an idea to Brainstorm: Ubuntu's developers have created an easy way for you to make suggestions to them: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com

Just be sure to be specific and post one idea at a time. Don't post anything with the word better or easier in it. A well-formulated idea would be Include a point-and-click utility for configuring the /etc/fstab file. A badly-formulated idea would be Make Ubuntu's interface better. The former, as you can see, offers a specific suggestion that can be implemented. The latter is a vague "suggestion" that is highly subjective and not very practical.

If you're truly interested in development, in addition to filing bug reports, you can donate money or contribute code or write up some documentation for new users.

Those are the only helpful suggestions I can give. Anyone else?

[TravisNewman]

You haven't failed to be enlighening yet in any of these posts like this. I love it.

[Kapre]

Amen to that bro. Not all newcomers will be reading this post, but I would like to suggest that whenever someone who wants to join the forum (be it one time poster, or a curious user who just want to jump in) read something like this on the registration window (in big bold letters) : THIS FORUM IS THE HELP COMMUNITY OF THE UBUNTU DISTRO (something to that effect) and all the info you've listed above is on it so they'll know that the forum is being run free of charge by volunteers and they should not whine nor weep.

K

[aysiu]

That's not really my call, even though I'm on staff. I'll settle for linking people to this thread every time I run into a whining session.

[majikstreet]

I. Love. You.

I have to refer people to this bug:https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu/+bug/1

:KS

[Goober]

Ohh, cool, I just noticed the Bugzilla thing for the first time. I've always wondered what the heck it was.

Thanks for yet another enlightening post!

[dbott67]

aysui is like Confucius... (http://www.friesian.com/confuci.htm)... our wisened, old philosopher. :)

The only problem with aysiu's excellent posts are that the trolls and whiners generally don't know where the 'search' button is, or the 'HowTos', or why the Linux world doesn't revolve around their unique hardware/software configuration, so they are never going to read this.

It's too bad... it should be included in the ReadMe... or better yet, the new Boot Splash! :)

-Dave

[mstlyevil]

Sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky ( I just cannot say sticky enough.)

[benplaut]

Sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky ( I just cannot say sticky enough.)

sticky stick sticky sticky :P


every time i come to the forums, i anxiously check for a new one of your posts... ayisu, you are teh bomb :D

[UbuWu]

You should mention malone as well, for bugs in programs from universe and soon also for main.

[mfarquhar]

2. Figure out the problem: most likely, especially if you're new to Linux in general and Ubuntu specifically, the "problem" is really just you screwing things up. I'd say (as a six-month newbie myself) that 99% of the problems I've had in Linux have been my fault--I just had no clue what I was doing, and I screwed something up.

i agree completely, especially with having absolutely no clue what i was doing part;)
i almost totally killed my system by messing with the visudoers (i think that was what it was called) file. it turns out that since the last time i had used the command line editing program it had been majorly updated , changing the commands. meaning that since i when i went to save and exit, it wouldn't work for me#-o , luckily i knew someone who did know how to fix so i didn't have to do anything drastic to fix the problem.

my point. most of the problems you will encounter in linux, or any OS for that matter can be chalked up to user error, (or in my case sometimes just plain stupidity:oops: ) so hang in there youll get it eventually.

[htinn]

Yeah, but complaining takes less time and effort and who wants to do all that? ;)

[aysiu]

Just some random thoughts.

A lot of times in whining threads, I see a mix of types of complaints and "suggestions."

We could do that, but we choose not to
For example, getting rid of Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu, changing the default Ubuntu color from brown to blue, including build-essential by default, or creating a root password during installation.

I think those things are important to discuss, but it's also important to recognize that the developers and/or Mark Shuttleworth probably thought about those choices before making the decisions. You don't have to agree with those decisions, and they may not be the right decisions, but they are thought-out decisions nonetheless.

Try to understand before criticizing, and realize, too, that you may never change their minds, and you're free to fork Ubuntu, since it's open source. Mepis has.

We could do that, but it would cost a lot of money
This applies mainly to the inclusion of various proprietary codecs. Now, of course, Ubuntu won't include them anyway, since it's supposed to include only open source/free software, but even if it wanted to include popular multimedia playback, it would have to pay for a lot of licenses in order to distribute them. It's not going to happen for both philosophical and monetary reasons.

What you're asking for requires more resources than we have
Some people want GIMP and Inkscape and OpenOffice--already fully featured applications in their own rights--to have the exact functionality that Photoshop, Illustrator, and MS Office have. My understanding is that while Ubuntu itself has corporate funding from Shuttleworth/Canonical, individual applications are developed by others and only packaged to be included with Ubuntu. Ubuntu itself does not actually develop GIMP, for example (someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this).

The best way to improve functionality on a project is to donate money to the project. You were going to spend US$1000 on Adobe Creative Suite? Consider... consider... spending that $1000 donating to improve open source alternatives. Just demanding, "this needs to include X, Y, and Z" is spitting in the wind--doesn't get anything done except make your face wet.

What you're asking for is already happening
A lot of whining rants make it sound as if Ubuntu (or desktop Linux in general) is static, never-changing, as if the developers just sit around and twiddle their thumbs all day.

They actually are hard at work to create a new release every six months. Certainly, there are more improvements than this, but off the top of my head I can think of gaining a bootsplash and menu editor (Hoary to Breezy); double-click installation of .deb files, Add/Remove programs in the menu, CD ejecting by pressing the button, and a graphical installer/partitioner for the live CD (Breezy to Dapper); and more polished artwork and faster loading times (Dapper to Edgy).

There are times and places to put in suggestions for the upcoming releases. Put those suggestions in, and the developers might actually implement your suggestions. Creating a thread that says "Ubuntu sucks and needs to do X, Y, and Z right now" isn't constructive, and I'm glad developers do not read such threads, which usually devolve into pointless bickering.

What you're asking isn't possible or requires way too much work
I got told this when I suggested visual feedback from the terminal when entering your password. That's the way the terminal works--it's a fundamental part of *nix that won't change, and you just have to suck it up.

Likewise for suggestions to totally revamp the file structure. It's one thing to hide the file structure from the GUI (a la Mac OS X), but if you actually ditched /boot, /etc, /usr, /lib, and all that for something else, almost all your Linux users would jump ship.

That's outside our control/unreasonable
It doesn't make sense to demand Ubuntu have drivers for every piece of hardware out there. Sometimes the drivers don't exist because the manufacturer doesn't make Linux drivers or won't release the driver code. Remember: Microsoft doesn't make most of the drivers for Windows--Lexmark, Samsung, HP, etc. make those drivers.

Likewise, Microsoft doesn't make setup.exe files for non-Microsoft products. If you want a Ubuntu .deb for a piece of software, create it, or politely ask the software developer to create one.

Conclusions that "average users" wouldn't be able to install Ubuntu are completely irrelevant to discussions about improvement, since "average users" rarely if ever install Windows themselves, and it's not up to Ubuntu developers to make deals with Dell to preinstall Ubuntu, and even if it were... good luck trying!

What you're asking is reasonable, we haven't considered it, and we're interested in it
Here's the rest, and even these should go through the proper channels, not through a whining thread. Remember, too, that tone of voice matters, too, when you're offering suggestions. You are not the donor of a large library to and alumna of a prestigious university. You are not entitled to anything. Ask nicely, be specific, use the proper channels, and hope for the best. Right now the "proper channels" may seem a bit intimidating. Some forum members are working now on a "forum ambassador" idea that may make it easier to convey ideas from "real" users to the developers in a way that's efficient and best for all parties involved.

[Brunellus]

Stickied.

[chaosgeisterchen]

Doing nothing makes you gain nothing. Short and true.

// edit

@Brunellus: Good one.

[aysiu]

Stickied.
Thanks.

I'm hoping as people come up with more practical suggestions (or if the ambassadors thing happens), people will continue to add to this thread concrete steps users can take to make Ubuntu better.

A filing bug reports for dummies would be great...

[MaximB]

aysiu - great posts as ever
one more thing you should include in "how can I help ?" is :
were/which/how do I get in touch with the ubuntu developers so I can contribute code that they need for ubuntu ? (I think you know all the links to this one ;)).

[aysiu]

Actually, I don't, as I've never contributed code (I'm not a programmer).

Can you post those links?

[MaximB]

here you go :
http://www.ubuntu.com/developers
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU

not only code but help developing ubuntu in every aspect (code, art, sound etc...)

[maniacmusician]

Thanks.

I'm hoping as people come up with more practical suggestions (or if the ambassadors thing happens), people will continue to add to this thread concrete steps users can take to make Ubuntu better.

A filing bug reports for dummies would be great...
I definitely agree with that last part, something like that would be great. But since that's based around launchpad now, it would be nice to include in that things like creating a spec, filing bug reports, and some other useful things launchpad does.

I would, though, advise you to re-edit your post. As far as I'm aware, ubuntu bugzilla doesn't exist anymore, and there's definitely not a link to it from the forums.

[John.Michael.Kane]

Here is my Small contribution Filing Bug Reports Using Launchpad. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=284595)

It's not on the level of an aysiu doc,however. It does the job.


Hope it helps.

[Hobbsee]

Aysiu! Sure you wouldnt want to be an ambassador?

You seem to have the mindset of what works and what doesnt :)

Rock on!

And your thoughts are very good :)

[AlphaMack]

Aysiu for President! :D

[aysiu]

Aysiu! Sure you wouldnt want to be an ambassador?

You seem to have the mindset of what works and what doesnt :)

Rock on!

And your thoughts are very good :)
Your saying that means a lot, actually, since you're a developer.

Still, I don't know if I'm ready to make that commitment yet.


I would, though, advise you to re-edit your post. As far as I'm aware, ubuntu bugzilla doesn't exist anymore, and there's definitely not a link to it from the forums. Thanks for the heads-up. I've edited the original post.

[meng]

Aysiu for President! :D
That's got to be an insult! Politicians are most successful when they're least tactful.

[John.Michael.Kane]

My contribution was so small it was over looked.. lol

[aysiu]

My contribution was so small it was over looked.. lol
SD-Plissken for president!

Oh, wait... apparently that's an insult.

Well, I appreciate the work you did. I'm a two-left-foot dancer when it comes to filing bug reports.

[John.Michael.Kane]

aysiu I was only joking. Anything I do around here I do for the community not for self.


I appreciate the work you do as well.


I think all those here who help how they can help make the forums better.

[codejunkie]

Your saying that means a lot, actually, since you're a developer.

Still, I don't know if I'm ready to make that commitment yet.

commitment, aysiu dear friend your actions on this board, your post count, and the number of people you have helped on this board shows your dedication to making Ubuntu and these forums the best they can be, i think you would make a great spokesperson/ambassador for us.

OH! i don't think I'd vote for you for president though, because you'd be to busy to spend anytime here;)

[factotum218]

I didn't even read the post, all I needed to see was the subject line. Completely agree. Now if only people would adopt that in day to day life.

[Charles Hand]

That's not really my call, even though I'm on staff. I'll settle for linking people to this thread every time I run into a whining session.

You don't seem to run into the whining sessions *about* noobs that I see all the time, though more often on IRC than on forums.

When I get a minute I'll write a similar admonition to those whiners.

[Charles Hand]

I didn't even read the post, all I needed to see was the subject line. Completely agree. Now if only people would adopt that in day to day life.

Precisely. When I saw the subject line, I thought it was about whining about noobs. Then I read the post and it *was* whining about noobs.

[djsroknrol]

Right on the mark as usual aysiu....I tip my hat to you...

[Danny Boy]

Bravo, aysiu. Excellent post!

[huntermix]

I've posted a bug in the tracker like a week ago and I haven't got any reply. Do I need to do anything else or eventually someone will look at it and confirm it (or not)?
This is the link:
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/69426

I thought the bug reporting thing would be more interactive:)

[kornelix]

Yes, sometimes it is whining, letting off steam, or screwing things up because of ignorance, inexperience or lack of caution.

But let's not forget the real limitations of Linux and "free software" that are at the root of much of the whining. And let's not forget that the macho geeks who create user-hostile or buggy software sometimes care more about their creative freedom and demonstrating technical prowess than for customer satisfaction. There are no customers for free software, and no market pressure for excellence - only that pressure which comes from a personal feeling of responsibility. If that alone were enough, then socialism would be a good economic model.

I love Linux and Ubuntu (the best flavor IMO), but there are some real problems in the free software business model that we should not gloss over.

If you have not already stopped reading this, here are some specifics to ponder. How many of these have you run into lately?
- incomprehensible, well hidden, or non-existant error messages
- installation hurdles: 22-step procedures (with variations per distro)
- user or technical documentation that does not exist, cannot easily be found, or is totally inadequate (tried programming in Cairo?)
- ACPI suspend is the same as a crash and reboot (ongoing kernel project since many years) (non-cooperating drivers)
- software that works on one distro does not work on another (so many flavors of Linux, so many competing development groups, so many overlapping projects, so little overall coordination)
- messages in support forums that get no response

[zgornel]

Yes, sometimes it is whining, letting off steam, or screwing things up because of ignorance, inexperience or lack of caution.

But let's not forget the real limitations of Linux and "free software" that are at the root of much of the whining. And let's not forget that the macho geeks who create user-hostile or buggy software sometimes care more about their creative freedom and demonstrating technical prowess than for customer satisfaction. There are no customers for free software, and no market pressure for excellence - only that pressure which comes from a personal feeling of responsibility. If that alone were enough, then socialism would be a good economic model.

I love Linux and Ubuntu (the best flavor IMO), but there are some real problems in the free software business model that we should not gloss over.

If you have not already stopped reading this, here are some specifics to ponder. How many of these have you run into lately?
- incomprehensible, well hidden, or non-existant error messages
- installation hurdles: 22-step procedures (with variations per distro)
- user or technical documentation that does not exist, cannot easily be found, or is totally inadequate (tried programming in Cairo?)
- ACPI suspend is the same as a crash and reboot (ongoing kernel project since many years) (non-cooperating drivers)
- software that works on one distro does not work on another (so many flavors of Linux, so many competing development groups, so many overlapping projects, so little overall coordination)
- messages in support forums that get no response

Totally agree. So, let's summarize what you said into advices forfuture or present linux users:
1. If you want comodity in installing (2 steps max) software and do not want to have to do with creepy error messages, use Windows and pay or use crackz.
2. Try selecting a distro and using that for years. Changing distros any 6 months won't help.
3. Nobody on the forums in obliged in any way to respond to posts so don't take it f***in personal. Plus, the volume of post (at least here) is huge. If nobody responds to your post, search for a solution yourself.

[aysiu]

Nobody is saying free software/Linux/Ubuntu/fill in the blank is perfect or has no limitations or no room for improvement.

The whole point of this thread is do something to make it better. Don't just complain.

[kornelix]

The whole point of this thread is do something to make it better. Don't just complain.

Agreed. But sometimes the macho geeks need to be told what kind of damage they do. But it is also unlikely they read the messages, so we whiners just get to whine to each-other (and fix it ourselves in the few cases where this is practical).

It could be so much better. Does all the whining help? make the gurus more aware, responsible? I doubt it.

[aysiu]

Agreed. But sometimes the macho geeks need to be told what kind of damage they do. But it is also unlikely they read the messages, so we whiners just get to whine to each-other (and fix it ourselves in the few cases where this is practical).

It could be so much better. Does all the whining help? make the gurus more aware, responsible? I doubt it. I agree the whining doesn't help, but I do think that the developers (I'm not sure if the Ubuntu developers are the ones you think of as "macho geeks") are making improvements with every release.

The direction Ubuntu has headed from Warty to Hoary to Breezy to Dapper to Edgy has always focused on more point-and-click options and more eye candy. They have, in fact, gone out of their way to take away the more roll-up-your-sleeves options by, for example, removing gconf-editor from the default Gnome menu.

A graphical installer from the live CD, double-click installation of .deb files, a menu editor, pretty tango icons, and a boot splash were all dreams when Hoary came out. Now, those are things we take for granted.

Of course, it's a wonder it's taken Ubuntu this long to get such basic things when distros like SuSE and Mepis have had them for over two years. In fact, Ubuntu still hasn't caught up to Mepis (which, ironically, is now based on Ubuntu and using Ubuntu repositories) when it comes to Grub reinstallation or mounting of partitions with proper permissions. That's another story, I guess.

But the developers are not stubborn die-hard elitists. They are actually trying to make Ubuntu more user-friendly to the point-and-click crowd.

[kornelix]

Aysiu,

I wound up on Ubuntu after trying Suse and Fedora. Why? Ubuntu seems to be the least "elitist" (as you put it) or "macho geek" (as I put it, and I think your term is more precise). Ubuntu has the best documentation and the most open and supportive user community, IMO. You are an examaple of this.

Ubuntu may be trying to make Linux more robust and friendly, but this is THEIR Linux, which is the problem. I want to make software that runs easily on most distributions, and I see chaos and Balkanization of Linux getting in the way. There are standards projects to counteract this, but I doubt if the macho geeks want to compromise their creative freedom and submit to anyone else's standards.

Only the kernel is standardized. The rest seems to be a free-for-all.

Why it is hard to produce and support generic Linux software:
- technical docs are all over the place (hard to find) and often missing or outdated or just poor
- desktops: Gnome KDE Fluxbox XFce Ice ...
- packaging: apt dpkg yum yast smart pkgtool portage tar ...
- package naming and contents differ among distributions, so one cannot say "install package xyz from your package manager"
- installed libraries and versions differ, and backwards-compatibility is sometimes not conserved, so libraries and apps must match
- directory structures differ (location of libraries, programs, config files)

[DoctorMO]

It's really very easy, you get an install layer technoledgy invented by someone like me, but less busy with other things. this enables you to install apps. as for directories. Linux has been built on the idea that the source is available so things like Makefile and configure are built and things like install_from_cd and apt-get Microsoft_Office arn't.

[houstonbofh]

You need a post of all of your helpful posts (like this one) and refer to that in your sig. This is quite good information, and I would never have seen it if I hadn't read one flame fest thread.

[aysiu]

You need a post of all of your helpful posts (like this one) and refer to that in your sig. This is quite good information, and I would never have seen it if I hadn't read one flame fest thread.
I try to keep my sig links as minimalist as possible.

If you want to find all the threads I've started, you can do an advanced search on my username.

[ButteBlues]

aysiu, as always, you never fail to find just the right words to accurately define common sense for the Ubuntu user and smack the general populous with it like a large club.

Thanks! :)

[aysiu]

Glad to be of help.

[ButteBlues]

Glad to be of help.
We're just glad to have you. :)

Your site is always the first I steer interested, potential new users to. It has been very helpful.

[Daveski]

Why it is hard to produce and support generic Linux software:
- technical docs are all over the place (hard to find) and often missing or outdated or just poor
- desktops: Gnome KDE Fluxbox XFce Ice ...
- packaging: apt dpkg yum yast smart pkgtool portage tar ...
- package naming and contents differ among distributions, so one cannot say "install package xyz from your package manager"
- installed libraries and versions differ, and backwards-compatibility is sometimes not conserved, so libraries and apps must match
- directory structures differ (location of libraries, programs, config files)

I understand what you are saying here, but I like to think that the 'chaotic' nature of some of the main distro's might be a great way to stabilise software. Think of the 'Linux' environment as something of an eco system. Code you write and test on Ubuntu may be fine in this environment, but does not work correctly in another major distro. If your software is good, you or others will fix the problem in this distro and your code has become 'immune' to this problem.

Let's say another big thing hits the Linux world - a 3D desktop for example - then again a problem manifests in your software. Again this will be fixed if the software is good, and again your software has evolved. All this, and you may not have lifted a finger to code during this period.

This chaotic environment is bubbling with constant improvements. This may indeed put off some users, but I like to see this as a huge advantage in the medium to long term, as opposed to 'I want this to work properly in every situation - now.'.

Any thoughts?

[CaptainTux]

I see this same conversation on every distro when they make a new release. Comments from people to the effect of...

My wireless does not work anymore..guess it is Windows for me.

My audio is a little buggy...windows for me.

upgrade options froze...windows for me.

I don't like the new wallpaper, guess Vista really does win.

First of all...anyone who does not think these things happen in windows really needs to do some fact checking. Buggy releases, driver issues, etc are common in Redmond.

What do we have the Windows does not? A community and a responsive one...as long as you put it to the right people in the right way.

What wireless card do you have? What sound card do you have?

I want this to be better. I do not want to switch from project to project to project and take my ball and go home as soon as one thing does not work right.

I am willing to do my part, the developers are doing their part, the documentation team is doing their part. Wanna roll up your sleeves and help?

It is not hard I assure you. All you gotta do is report a bug and be specific as opposed to complaining in vague terms.

Cheers

[kamaboko]

reporting a bug w/o internet access would be difficult.

[aysiu]

reporting a bug w/o internet access would be difficult.
Then how do these people manage to post threads on the Ubuntu Forums without internet access?

By the way, I posted a similar thread a while back:
What's better than whining on the forums? Making a difference. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=78741)

[John.Michael.Kane]

Then how do these people manage to post threads on the Ubuntu Forums without internet access?

By the way, I posted a similar thread a while back:
What's better than whining on the forums? Making a difference. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=78741)

Adding to aysiu post theres the threads below. Which outline how users can get involved.
***** Announcement Please Read First Criticism FAQ & Ways To Help ***** (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=408434)

*****Please Read First Gutsy Gibbon Ways To Make A Difference***** (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409580)

The thread regarding Gutsy can easily be updated to reflect the next version that being (Hardy Heron)

[saulgoode]

I would add that the development team and beta testers of a release do not have access to every piece of hardware out there.

If you have a piece of hardware that doesn't work on a new release, the fix is often quite simple (especially if the hardware has worked in the past or works with another distro); however, your help is necessary in order for the developers to make the fix and for testing it (one can hardly expect a developer purchase a device just for testing purposes).

My experience has been that developers very much want to make your hardware work and will go to great lengths trying to make it work. You just have to give them the chance and, as Captain Tux suggested, provide them with the necessary information and be willing to test the result.

EDIT: Wrong Tux. :)

[theacoustician]

1. Right on
2. Live CDs and Virtual Machines are your friend. Try before you buy.
3. More emphasis needs to be placed on how to find solutions. Many people coming from Windows are used to zero support. They don't know where to look, how to ask a question, or submit a bug report. I know this sounds dumb considering the resources out there, but think about it. People who read about Ubuntu from the Wired or WSJ aren't being told about the support structure, just about how "sunshine and roses" Ubuntu is. To compound the issue, you've got tons on so called how to's out there that basically amount to "copy and paste these command lines". They never describe the hows and whys as to what's going on. Once you get to a comfortable user level, its hard to exactly figure out how to start pitching in and giving back. I know I still haven't figured that out.

[CaptainTux]

Then how do these people manage to post threads on the Ubuntu Forums without internet access?

By the way, I posted a similar thread a while back:
What's better than whining on the forums? Making a difference. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=78741)

Good thread...had I seen that one I would have bunped it as opposed ot being repetitive.

For newbies I give a pass and educate...but when you have like 200 posts and yer whining.....get in the game and help us make it better.

[kamaboko]

Then how do these people manage to post threads on the Ubuntu Forums without internet access?


Obviously not on the computer they're having inet conneciton issues with. And if that's their only computer....
Not everyone downloads this OS. They get the free CD. Also, I tossed this on a laptop with Vista and as it turned out Gutsy hozed the MBR for Vista. So...I couldn't access the interent on my working Vista install and Ubuntu refused to work with the restricted WiFi firmware. I had to use someone elses computer for inet access.

[aysiu]

Obviously not on the computer they're having inet conneciton issues with. Then they can post a bug report off the computer that does have a working internet connection. If they have a connection to post a complaining thread, they have a connection to post a bug report.

[23meg]

Obviously not on the computer they're having inet conneciton issues with. And if that's their only computer....

Interesting fact: about 35% of forum visitors use Windows to visit the forum (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=380980).

[aysiu]

Good thread...had I seen that one I would have bunped it as opposed ot being repetitive. No worries. I've merged the two threads.

[Kangarooo]

4. Stick with Windows: just as Ubuntu isn't for everyone, Linux is also not for everyone. It's entirely possible that someone may have coaxed you into Linux, telling you lies about how it's panacea for the world's computing problems and works on every piece of hardware with little to no effort. Sorry if that happened. However, just because you don't like Windows doesn't mean you'll necessarily like Linux. Windows may be the best option for you.

So is it true that video drivers regressing so older cards wont work? So with time from beeing Linux user im just left with unusable system? It was working but starting to not work. Actually for everyone something doesnt work so everybody should now consider one of options to use Windows? Some will have solutions but actually i have 7 video cards witch now the last working also isnt working but as manual says it should be and shouldnt only with next version driver. One of cards have even never had solution.
I think better delete this option 4 so other option would work and make all drivers work so every human beeing could use Ubuntu and not only latest hardware could use Ubuntu couse Ubuntu is for human beeings and not for latest hardware (as i remember)

[cariboo]

No it isn't true that older video cards won't work, you may have to use the vesa drivers, so you won't be able to use desktop effects, and you may not be able to use the highest possible resolution your monitor is capable of, but the system will work quite adequately for many years to come.

I have an old circa 1998 Compaq with a 450Mhz Celeron, 512MB Ram on board ATI Rage Pro, it runs several distributions quite well with 1024X768 resolution, and is quite usable. It will probably run Ubuntu, I just haven't got a round to trying it yet.