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Kimm
October 17th, 2005, 06:30 PM
I've been using Ubuntu since Warty was just released and it has allways worked beautifully, but I was quite dissapointed by Breezy, it seems more buggy and my graphics card wount work nicely anymore.
So... I desided to perhaps try out another distro, openSuSE has come to mind, so has Fedora, but I dont know which one to try.

Can anyone suggest some good Linux distribution, if possible, completely free (in all ways) and up-to-date, and that comes with Gnome. A nice package manager like debians and Ubuntus, no matter if its rpm or deb.

But dont worry, I wount leave Ubuntu just yet, I will partion my drive and install the other alternative there to try it out.

Lovechild
October 17th, 2005, 06:33 PM
Fedora Core or Foresight maybe

Orunitia
October 17th, 2005, 06:33 PM
opensuse is pretty good. It has yast which is decent for installing stuff. But I can't leave debian systems, because I love apt too much.

Goober
October 17th, 2005, 06:47 PM
I heard MEPIS or OpenSUSE are good. I have plans to try MEPIS sometime after Midterms end.

Nomearod
October 17th, 2005, 07:14 PM
I use Suse 10.0 ( dual boot with Ubuntu 5.10 ), and it's a great distro, but I prefer the APT-get of Ubuntu because it was much more programs than Yast.

Kimm
October 17th, 2005, 07:45 PM
Thanks for all your suggestions

I desided to go with Fedora, but I cant find the DVD-image :confused:
Anyone know where it is?

Jussi Kukkonen
October 17th, 2005, 08:19 PM
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/

xequence
October 17th, 2005, 08:38 PM
Ive always been intrigued by Fedora Core.

I heard opensuse was good but that it wont last...

canadianwriterman
October 17th, 2005, 08:42 PM
I've been using Ubuntu since Warty was just released and it has allways worked beautifully, but I was quite dissapointed by Breezy, it seems more buggy and my graphics card wount work nicely anymore.
So... I desided to perhaps try out another distro, openSuSE has come to mind, so has Fedora, but I dont know which one to try.

Can anyone suggest some good Linux distribution, if possible, completely free (in all ways) and up-to-date, and that comes with Gnome. A nice package manager like debians and Ubuntus, no matter if its rpm or deb.

But dont worry, I wount leave Ubuntu just yet, I will partion my drive and install the other alternative there to try it out.

Be careful of OpenSUSE. I tried it, as well as Xandros and Linspire. Xandros and Linspire were both good, but OpenSUSE did not detect my printer, standard modem or my network. And, to set those up manually is a very technical process. I ended up giving up on OpenSUSE after struggling to get it to recognize everything. Ubuntu, Xandros and Linspire all recognized everything on install. Xandros has a free version if you want to try it, but you have to have a paid subscription for most things in its repository. Linspire is pay-for-everthing.

basketcase
October 17th, 2005, 08:48 PM
I started using fedora because my friend was doing some development for work and figured I'd load it up on the extra box in the corner. Pretty straight foward on the older hardware (PIII 766 256MB, 10gb HDD, 3com NIC). It currently hosts my website, and haven't had any problems with any of it. I have thought about switching to ubuntu, but I've got other things I want to do.

I'm interested in Mephis and Gentoo, but running out of computers.

Nomearod
October 17th, 2005, 08:48 PM
Be careful of OpenSUSE. I tried it, as well as Xandros and Linspire. Xandros and Linspire were both good, but OpenSUSE did not detect my printer, standard modem or my network. And, to set those up manually is a very technical process. I ended up giving up on OpenSUSE after struggling to get it to recognize everything. Ubuntu, Xandros and Linspire all recognized everything on install. Xandros has a free version if you want to try it, but you have to have a paid subscription for most things in its repository. Linspire is pay-for-everthing.


Suse detected all my hardware on the first boot. I was really suprised because it was the first distro to detect my printer on the boot. ;)

I used Fedora Core but i didn't liked it... I think that it need something like Synaptic, but the installer ( Anaconda, I think ) was probably one of the best that I ever used.

brentoboy
October 17th, 2005, 08:55 PM
OpenSuse is the only distro I have ever tried that detected everything perfectly right out of the box - 3d graphics, opengl, even had a checkbox to rotate my monitor wihtout having to hack around to get my display on profile - the way I like it.

amd64 3000+
4GB ram
Plexwriter DVR+- (etc)
all the goods.

Ubuntu Hoarty was second best with detection, and ubuntu breezy - not so good, wasnt up to snuff with hoarty's automatic hardware detection, but gnome is greatly improved. It cuts both ways I guess.

I hope that Dapper ends up keeping the focus on hardware, because that is the single most significant reason to choose one distro over another - everything else you can apt-get or emerge, or tar ....

basketcase
October 17th, 2005, 09:28 PM
Yum. On Fedoraforums, I hear them talk about it. I think it's similar to apt-get. Never persued it. For what I needed, I didn't see the point in trying to install it.

majikstreet
October 17th, 2005, 10:03 PM
I've used many distrobutions, and I really enjoyed Slackware (has KDE).

My first one was Debian- but that was before I was "ready" for linux.
Red Hat 9 was nice, the installer ROCKED!

As many have said, Fedora has always seemed nice. I tried it back at Core 1. It was iffy- but Anaconda ROCKED my FEET (I don't wear socks!).

Let us know how Fedora is.

The Fedora site isn't very informative though. Fedoraforums.org seem nice-- but have you heard the _age old_ story of BitchX on FF.org? (I don't remember it but it had to do with BitchX and censoring)

-m

Lovechild
October 17th, 2005, 10:21 PM
Yum. On Fedoraforums, I hear them talk about it. I think it's similar to apt-get. Never persued it. For what I needed, I didn't see the point in trying to install it.

the cli yum tool is very nicely done, but the existing gui frontends are somewhat lacking - the best being yumex if you want a synaptics look alike - however pup will be featured in FC5 as a replacement for up2date and rhn-applet so there is hope for a nice gui frontend.

somuchfortheafter
October 18th, 2005, 12:35 AM
i would personally recommend debian, what can i say I love it.

Kimm
October 18th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Well, thanks for your suggestions everyone but I think Fedora Core is the way to go at the moment. I just started the download of the DVD iso... and it should be done in about 40 minutes ^^^but who knows... maby I'll try one of the others later.

Pablo_Escobar
October 20th, 2005, 11:22 AM
It's a shame for me to say it but I betrayed Ubuntu for FC4 yesterday.
The reasons for my switch are several :
1. Hoary was solid, Breezy - that's a different story, Nautilus crashed, locales changed by themselves, I had to spend whole day to get my ATI working.
2. Fedora was always good for me, except i really thing apt is much better then yum. But having in mind that now I know something about Linux, and I know how to move around CLI, it's also pretty good.
3. After installing Fedora -> yum update kernel * -> yum install kernel-fglrx-module -> yum install kernel-ntfs-module and everything is perfec tly working, no hicups, no crashes, pure stability.
4. Another thing that crossed my mind - people tend to say that Fedoras packages are outdated in comparison to Ubuntus. I see it the other way around. Newest ATI drivers, 2.6.13 kernel, everything is brand new AND it works. I hate to say it but I believe that RPMs for Fedora are better prepared then DEBs for Ubuntu :( Ok, some people may say that FC doesn't have Gnome 2.12.1, only 2.10. But that's my point, maybe it was rushed for Ubuntu ? Other distros AFAIK still stick to 2.10.

I don't want to start a flame war around here - Ubuntu vs. Fedora. I've been a solid Ubuntu user for a couple of months, but I now see some downsides in Ubuntu. Breezy helped me to realise that.
I'm sure I'll try Dapper when it comes out, I really hope it'll be better then Breezy. I still believe that Ubuntus main power is a great community, like this forum here, but I want my system stable, without random crashes and glitches.

So long for now and I hope to see You around :)

tseliot
October 20th, 2005, 11:56 AM
I really love Ubuntu (I had to say it) even if it's not perfect (as any other OS)

PCLinux OS is my 2nd favourite distro. Everything works out of the box, you don't have to install codecs, etc. It's easier than OpenSuse: with 1 click you can install the nvidia drivers, the modules for your webcam (everything is compiled at the moment you decide to install them according to your current kernel). Moreover you can install it from the livecd.

The only thing which can be considered as a flaw (but I don't think so): the preview release (which is stable for me) has been released some months ago so you have to update the system from Synaptic (yes it uses synaptic) and it can take a while (for the latest KDE, etc.). Then you have to enable other repos (a matter of click) so as to be able to install many other packages (kbfx, etc.)

It's an amazing distro.

EDIT: it's buggy though

Kimm
October 21st, 2005, 09:37 PM
Well, I got FC4 upp and running now, its realy great, rock solid and apps seem to start faster... I think the binaries are compiled for my architecture (i686) as opose to i386.

Also Hardware mixing works with FC... itnever did with Ubuntu for some reason.

And, I think you will love this news!
I found a way to use Synaptic in FC4, I'm not talkin about using like the debian repository or anything like that It acctualy uses a modified version of apt so that it uses rpms instead (and yes, this means that apt-get now works here to). Its realy great, I'm having some trubble with it, but its not in the software, one of the servers is just down.

Althouth the repository isnt as big as Ubuntus it still makes it feel more like home! ^^

majikstreet
October 21st, 2005, 10:09 PM
Well, I got FC4 upp and running now, its realy great, rock solid and apps seem to start faster... I think the binaries are compiled for my architecture (i686) as opose to i386.

Also Hardware mixing works with FC... itnever did with Ubuntu for some reason.

And, I think you will love this news!
I found a way to use Synaptic in FC4, I'm not talkin about using like the debian repository or anything like that It acctualy uses a modified version of apt so that it uses rpms instead (and yes, this means that apt-get now works here to). Its realy great, I'm having some trubble with it, but its not in the software, one of the servers is just down.

Althouth the repository isnt as big as Ubuntus it still makes it feel more like home! ^^
Great to hear! Good luck:)

Lovechild
October 21st, 2005, 10:22 PM
Well, I got FC4 upp and running now, its realy great, rock solid and apps seem to start faster... I think the binaries are compiled for my architecture (i686) as opose to i386.

Also Hardware mixing works with FC... itnever did with Ubuntu for some reason.

And, I think you will love this news!
I found a way to use Synaptic in FC4, I'm not talkin about using like the debian repository or anything like that It acctualy uses a modified version of apt so that it uses rpms instead (and yes, this means that apt-get now works here to). Its realy great, I'm having some trubble with it, but its not in the software, one of the servers is just down.

Althouth the repository isnt as big as Ubuntus it still makes it feel more like home! ^^

There is no time like the present to join Fedora Extras in the quest for world domination, the list is very friendly and gives excellent spec file peer review.

Emerzen
October 21st, 2005, 10:52 PM
I've used OpenSUSE 10, which was a nice "out of the box" experience. Everything it came w/ worked well and it comes w/ alot. However, YAST is another matter. I had major problems w/ it's repository system... I know some people swear by YAST, but I don't think they've tried Synaptic.

I've also tried Fedora Core 3 which is also nice "out of the box." I upgraded to FC4 from a CD, got the updates and promptly broke my system. I haven't heard good things about FC4 from other sources either. FC3 was nice though.

I also have Debian 3.1 installed on my system...I installed it to get my hands dirty and learn a thing or two, but everything installed and configured nicely so...

My Ranking:
1.) Ubuntu
2.) OpenSUSE
3.) Debian
4.) Fedora Core 4 (by a lot less)

All in all, it almost always comes down to the fact that apt outshines any other package managment system, by a long shot in my opinion.

asimon
October 23rd, 2005, 12:30 PM
I had major problems w/ it's repository system... I know some people swear by YAST, but I don't think they've tried Synaptic.

Yes, the YAST gui for package management is not very good. A developer already said on the mailing list that the YAST package management and update module will get quite some rewriting for SUSE 10.1. I hope they find a good solution.

With apt, yum, and now smart the command line tools are very good (I really like smart), but a usable gui is of course a must.



I've also tried Fedora Core 3 which is also nice "out of the box." I upgraded to FC4 from a CD, got the updates and promptly broke my system. I haven't heard good things about FC4 from other sources either. FC3 was nice though.


The last time I tried FC was also around the release of FC3. I had major issues with SELinux. My bugs I filed were eventually all fixed but what me turned off from Fedora was the rather small software repository and the rather bad KDE support then. But it seems Fedora Extras has made good progression since then. I suppose it's time to try FC again. But for all things Mono even Fedora Extras doesn't help... ah ... damn politics and patents.

tseliot
October 23rd, 2005, 01:44 PM
... but what me turned off from Fedora was the rather small software repository and the rather bad KDE support then. But it seems Fedora Extras has made good progression since then. I suppose it's time to try FC again...

I've tried FC4 and its KDE (3.4.2) seems much more stable than the one (3.4.3) in Ubuntu Breezy. For example, (in Ubuntu) KDE has some problems when you go to "storage media" (I can see only my floppy disk even when the CD-reader and the other harddisks are already mounted) and when I insert a new CD/DVD the autoplay opens Konqueror automatically and it says there's an error (it can't be mounted) (but if I try to access it by a link to the device which I put on the desktop it works). I have these problems after 2-3 times I reboot (after the installation of Kubuntu desktop) (everything works properly the first 2 times I use KDE after the installation).

On the other hand KDE works great in FC4 but I don't like yum very much. It's my 2nd distro now.

xequence
October 23rd, 2005, 04:31 PM
Well, its great you got fedora up and running :) I am downloading debian right now.

tseliot
October 23rd, 2005, 04:41 PM
Well, its great you got fedora up and running :) I am downloading debian right now.
Did Fedora give you problems with your hardware?

Quest-Master
October 23rd, 2005, 04:58 PM
I'd use Fedora if it wasn't for the 3 CDs required. :\

xequence
October 23rd, 2005, 05:04 PM
Did Fedora give you problems with your hardware?

I havnt tried it yet ;)

I do plan to though, sometime.


I'd use Fedora if it wasn't for the 3 CDs required. :\

Isnt it 4 cds? Heh, even better if I try it, since I only have 3 blank CD-RWs to burn, for distro testing putposes ;)

mrtaber
October 23rd, 2005, 06:17 PM
Actually, Fedora is 4 CDs plus a rescue CD if you want it. Fedora 3 was really solid for me. Breezy is reminding me of FC4...fine for a lot of people, but with small flakinesses that make it seem less stable on my machine (for example, nearly 4 months out of the gate, FC4 still hasn't fixed the update notifier).

Still, I like Fedora, even Core 4. Glad it's working out for you.

Mark :)

izmaelis
October 23rd, 2005, 07:39 PM
I have installed Frugalware (http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=frugalware) v0.3 on my spare partition, but don't play with it a lot. I like the idea that it is i686 optimized and I think that same things work somehow faster comparing with Ubuntu.

Kimm
October 23rd, 2005, 09:22 PM
Well... I'm back with Ubuntu Breezy :-P

Fedora Core was nice and all, but I managed to break the system in about two days... I supose it didnt like me trying to make it more Debian like... or that I recompiled almost everything and upgraded that way :-P

Anyways Breezy works better now, I made a clean Hoary install and then, without making any changes, dist-upgraded to Breezy, now it works... almost like a charm, still have some trubble with Graphics in Wine, but the rest of the system seems more stable then before.

I'm working on the Graphics... need to get it as good as possible since I have a LAN-party comming up new monday.

denisesballs
October 24th, 2005, 05:13 AM
Well, I got FC4 upp and running now, its realy great, rock solid and apps seem to start faster... I think the binaries are compiled for my architecture (i686) as opose to i386.

And, I think you will love this news!
I found a way to use Synaptic in FC4, I'm not talkin about using like the debian repository or anything like that It acctualy uses a modified version of apt so that it uses rpms instead (and yes, this means that apt-get now works here to). Its realy great, I'm having some trubble with it, but its not in the software, one of the servers is just down.

Althouth the repository isnt as big as Ubuntus it still makes it feel more like home! ^^

Just to let you know, I came to Ubuntu for the exact same reasons. I list them here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=80167 .

Apt-get works okay in FC4. I really started liking YUM before I switched, except for the fact it requeries every repo every time you use it, making it slow. Ubuntu is so much better in every way after 2 years with FC. Welcome back!

BTW you can install the 686 kernel in Breezy, and it's a HUGE increase. At least for me.

asimon
October 24th, 2005, 09:50 AM
it requeries every repo every time you use it, making it slow.
I use yum rather infrequently but I remember that it has an option to use it's cache only. It's not unreasonable to default it to off.


Ubuntu is so much better in every way after 2 years with FC. Welcome back!

In every way? Like in SELinux support? Proavtive security? Native Eclipse? (Ubuntu has that too, but I hear that Fedora's has fewer bugs), Xen? ;-)

Pablo_Escobar
October 24th, 2005, 09:58 AM
As I see it FC and yum is terrible compared to apt-get.
1. Slow
2. Mixing repos leads to system crash (a lot of new FC users don't know about repo mixing)

As I see it, FC has newer packages, but a lesser choice of them. Yep, it's stable, but also as my Ubuntu box is solid as a rock with little tweaking and configuring.
Fedora also comes with 4 CDs. For ones it's a plus side, for me - unnecessary burning. I like Ubuntus 1CD style.
Fedora - also the thing that drives me mad - their directory setup, some stuff is in other directories, I like the Debian way, clean, simple, Fedora with its choice is a bit ackward for me.
I had my doubts about Breezy, switched to FC4, but using it for 3 days, something was just wrong, I didn't feel comfortable using FC4 so I reinstalled to Breezy and did some major configuring and now I'm happy as he.ll :)

denisesballs
October 24th, 2005, 02:47 PM
I use yum rather infrequently but I remember that it has an option to use it's cache only. It's not unreasonable to default it to off.

That only works if you have the packages downloaded.


In every way? Like in SELinux support? Proavtive security? Native Eclipse? (Ubuntu has that too, but I hear that Fedora's has fewer bugs), Xen? ;-)

SELinux is a mess, and a causes more problems than it helps with IMO.

xequence
October 24th, 2005, 08:05 PM
Well, I am going to try a whole bunch of distros and I have theree CDs to use. (Of course ill try one, if I dont like it just erase the CD).

Debain didnt really work well...

asimon
October 24th, 2005, 09:17 PM
That only works if you have the packages downloaded.

It works good for searching, that's were I use it (if I have to use yum).



SELinux is a mess, and a causes more problems than it helps with IMO.
IMO SELinux is the future of access control in Linux. The old discretionary access control doesn't protect us against broken software or malware. And I think Ubuntu will have to add it if it wants to enter the enterprise market (and enterprise-ready seems to be a goal of dapper drake with it's 5 year support on servers).

Last time I tried Fedora Core 4 I had only two issues with SELinux: one with dovecot and one with apache. Both were fixed in a couple of days. I had no other SELinux problems on that machine. So in that case it wasn't a mess, not at all. Of course writing policies is not easy, that's why the distro should provide good default ones. My opinion is that we should get all the security we can.

denisesballs
October 24th, 2005, 09:20 PM
IMO SELinux is the future of access control in Linux. The old discretionary access control doesn't protect us against broken software or malware. And I think Ubuntu will have to add it if it wants to enter the enterprise market (and enterprise-ready seems to be a goal of dapper drake with it's 5 year support on servers).

Last time I tried Fedora Core 4 I had only two issues with SELinux: one with dovecot and one with apache. Both were fixed in a couple of days. I had no other SELinux problems on that machine. So in that case it wasn't a mess, not at all. Of course writing policies is not easy, that's why the distro should provide good default ones. My opinion is that we should get all the security we can.

SELinux is definitely a good idea for the server/enterprise, but on desktops it just causes problems and unneccesary restrictions in my experience.

BWF89
October 24th, 2005, 09:36 PM
I've heard good things about SuSE.

asimon
October 24th, 2005, 11:10 PM
SELinux is definitely a good idea for the server/enterprise, but on desktops it just causes problems and unneccesary restrictions in my experience.
Therefore there is a targetted mode, where it controls server processes only (or what ever you tell it to monitor).

denisesballs
October 25th, 2005, 12:55 AM
Therefore there is a targetted mode, where it controls server processes only (or what ever you tell it to monitor).

It still intereferes and is buggy. I've been using it for 6 months now. I don't think it's meant for desktops. Especially, newbies.

Emerzen
October 25th, 2005, 01:09 AM
Anyone try any BSD based distro's?

poofyhairguy
October 25th, 2005, 02:18 AM
Anyone try any BSD based distro's?

The BSDs aren't really distros. They are different kinds of BSD.

Emerzen
October 25th, 2005, 04:09 AM
Yeah, I've read something about that in a history of BSD...there are several BSD kernel projects. I've seen the PCBSD distribution? mentioned at distrowatch...I'm just curious as Apple is supposed to have BSD as its kernel. Have you ever tried it?