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programgeek
October 17th, 2005, 03:19 AM
Why with linux does there have to be a million different different programs, all made from scratch, that just do the same thing in the end?

Is there any chance that KDE and GNOME can somehow find there differences, STFU, RTFM and get along? Why can't they just google it? Why??

erikpiper
October 17th, 2005, 03:36 AM
Choise is one of the reat things about linux. I love XFCE/Gnome, and dislike KDE. Others love KDE.

poofyhairguy
October 17th, 2005, 03:40 AM
Why with linux does there have to be a million different different programs, all made from scratch, that just do the same thing in the end?

Its because the license lets people. This isn't an organization like Microsoft with plenty of common goals. The GNU OS (linux) and its program base is a wonderful bunch of chaos snowballing its way into the future.

As a person that likes the DE made second more than the one made first (Gnome over KDE), I'm glad there is so much choice!



Is there any chance that KDE and GNOME can somehow find there differences, STFU, RTFM and get along? Why can't they just google it? Why??

Will they merge and the holy wars end? I bet my beloved iBook that such can never happen and it would be the safest bet of my life. Will it matter less in the future, or can one DE "win?" Who knows really.

I mean, somedays I really like using XFCE. Fun fragmentation is the name of the game.

aysiu
October 17th, 2005, 03:44 AM
Why is there deep dish and New York style? Why can't all pizzas just be the same? Geez.

Seriously. A little variety never hurt anyone... except Windows users.

If you read the history of Gnome and KDE, it's actually quite fascinating. If it weren't for KDE, Gnome wouldn't be around, and if it weren't for Gnome, KDE would still be under a nonfree license. Each desktop environment pushes the other.

Incidentally, I just went back to Gnome, and I love it! I'm really torn between KDE, Gnome, and XFCE. I can't decide! And best of all... I don't have to!

Goober
October 17th, 2005, 03:54 AM
I actually prefer that they be different. Its a little thing I like to call choice. Just like all the Linux distros will never join, and become one gigantic Linux OS, neither will the various Desktops. Lack of choice is one reason I am not so fond of Windows. Our world seems to be Windows, Windows, and nothing but Windows.

I like choice, and having different options. That is why I prefer that KDE, Gnome, XFCE, and all other Desktops stay nice and different.

programgeek
October 17th, 2005, 06:13 AM
Isn't it possible if we just had 1 Desktop Environment it could just make everyone happy?

Imagine if we had all the programmers and effort put into one that could satisfy everyone's needs.. Imagine how far ahead we could be if all f/oss did that. O_O

This is wierd, but what if I said to kde and gnome and etc, "If the major Desktop Environments come together and work as one, I will fund you with 2 million dollars". Or is funding kinda irrelevant?

aysiu
October 17th, 2005, 06:16 AM
Isn't it possible if we just had 1 Desktop Environment it could just make everyone happy?

Imagine if we had all the programmers and effort put into one that could satisfy everyone's needs.. Did you somehow manage to not read the last three posts? No one desktop environment can satisfy everyone's needs.

programgeek
October 17th, 2005, 06:23 AM
Did you somehow manage to not read the last three posts? No one desktop environment can satisfy everyone's needs.

Yes, but if I thought of it through that perspective, I wouldn't of posted in the first place really.

No one desktop environment satisfies everyones needs at the present.
But 100 different desktop environments couldn't either, apparently, theres new ones popping out every day.

I think it'd be possible to make to make a DE environment feature/customization-wise good enough for everyone.

aysiu
October 17th, 2005, 06:34 AM
No one desktop environment satisfies everyones needs at the present.
But 100 different desktop environments couldn't either, apparently, theres new ones popping out every day. I don't see 100. There are a bunch of window managers out there (maybe thirty or so), but for desktop environments, there are only two that are really popular (i.e., come as the default one for popular distros): KDE and Gnome. Occasionally, you'll have someone running XFCE, Fluxbox, or IceWM, but KDE and Gnome are still the big two.

It's only in computers that you get people advocating a lack of choice as being a good thing. Food. Cars. Jewelry. Comic books. Future spouse. In just about anything else in life, people realize choice is a good thing. Somehow, that doesn't translate to computers...

benplaut
October 17th, 2005, 07:32 AM
having a DE common core isn't a half bad idea, but it'll never happen...

stimpack
October 17th, 2005, 11:02 AM
Choice is always good however there is one aspect they do need to move closer, a KDE app should NOT look crap in Gnome and vice versa, that aspect does nobody any favors.

Teroedni
October 17th, 2005, 11:16 AM
Choice is good. People have different taste, so why shouldnt they be allowed to find their Desktop. Another good thing is that with more windows managers theres more competition;)
I dont think linux had come so long if only it was one wm.

To take it from another side
Why couldnt all cars be the same brand? Then all would be the same sequrity..bla..bla..bla
Choice is good and important.

Homewer with linux you dont need to stand with one wm
If you have enough ram,hardisk space and fast enough proc you can run more than one wm. On my Amdxp2600 I have Gnome,Kde and Xfce installed.
I can then switch using gdm(you can also use kdm;) between gnome and the others. I are actually planning to install Openbox and/or fluxbox to ,to check out what i can get out of that:)

If you havent you should also try out xnest really cool program;)

poofyhairguy
October 17th, 2005, 11:38 AM
Isn't it possible if we just had 1 Desktop Environment it could just make everyone happy?

Not really. We need at least two- one for old machines and one for new ones. Now KDE and Gnome are the latter, so XFCE is needed. Really only three DE isn't that bad. Its not quite like the singel xorg, but its better than the 30 or whatever media players!

Pablo_Escobar
October 17th, 2005, 11:45 AM
I personally love the choice I have.
I've been a KDE user, now I can't live without Gnome. Maybe someday I'll try Fluxbox, because it looks promising.
One user will want to set up everything with GUI or having a strong PC (KDE), other will want to set up by hand or having an old PC (Fluxbox).
This is the core of what we, Linux users have - a choice !!
What do Window$ users have - Window$ or ................. Window$ :D

ygarl
October 17th, 2005, 11:59 AM
Unless of course you prefer Windowmaker.
Or Enlightenment.
Or Blackbox.
Or Fluxbox.
Or Metacity.
(I use Fluxbox, Windowmaker, XFCE AND Gnome!)

mike998
October 17th, 2005, 01:21 PM
Unless of course you prefer Windowmaker.
Or Enlightenment.
Or Blackbox.
Or Fluxbox.
Or Metacity.
(I use Fluxbox, Windowmaker, XFCE AND Gnome!)

Different strokes for different folks!

It's all about choice!

Deanodriver
October 18th, 2005, 05:53 AM
The thing is, there may be thirty different DE's/WM's, but each of those is ideal for at least some people.

You cannot make one desktop to please everyone.

Linux is all about customisation and choice, if you don't like something, you're not forced to have it on your system.

brentoboy
October 18th, 2005, 03:07 PM
Competition is good. It encourages forward movement.

If KDE and Gnome "merged" into one big crazy environment, then some other window manager would jump into second place, and start pulling more followers. It is like political parties. Becuase everyone has different needs/interests, one WM doesnt please everyone. In linux, the lack of alternatives creates a vacuum that must be filled - with a new alternative.

That said, WM's would benefit from choosing thier focus and making sure to hit the mark and keep a steady course - and stop trying to mimic eachother. The value beind the different WMs is in their differences not thier similarities.

---
Lucky for use, k3b and kwifimanager work on gnome, and synaptic works in kde.
:)

Stormy Eyes
October 18th, 2005, 03:33 PM
Isn't it possible if we just had 1 Desktop Environment it could just make everyone happy?

Sure, it's possible. I think it is incredibly unlikely. Chances are that pigs will fly long before somebody comes up with a DE that makes everybody happy. FYI, I use neither GNOME nor KDE. I use Openbox, instead.

lotusleaf
October 19th, 2005, 04:36 AM
Why with linux does there have to be a million different different programs, all made from scratch, that just do the same thing in the end?

Because variety is the spice of life

idn
October 19th, 2005, 04:38 AM
Its best to have diversity, linux is designed to be on a million different platforms, you cant have a one sie fits all.

Brunellus
October 19th, 2005, 04:53 AM
We like choice and diversity in GNU/linux...to a fault.

it may be bewildering for new users, but really, that's what distribution defaults are for. I myself revel in the choice--I'm running Gnome 2.12 but using openbox instead of windowmaker as my default windowmanager.

asimon
October 19th, 2005, 10:23 AM
If it weren't for KDE, Gnome wouldn't be around, and if it weren't for Gnome, KDE would still be under a nonfree license. Each desktop environment pushes the other.
Actually when KDE started 1998 all it's libraries were LGPL and all it's applications GPL, thus it was always under a free lisence. You mean probably Qt, which was not under a free lisence from the beginning.

But I think the Harmony Project had more to do with Toll Tech's desicion to license Qt under GPL than Gnome did. The Harmony Project started to reimplement Qt under a free Lisence, a goal which became pointless after Toll Tech released Qt 2.0 under GPL.

RastaMahata
October 19th, 2005, 11:19 AM
Actually when KDE started 1998 all it's libraries were LGPL and all it's applications GPL, thus it was always under a free lisence. You mean probably Qt, which was not under a free lisence from the beginning.

But I think the Harmony Project had more to do with Toll Tech's desicion to license Qt under GPL than Gnome did. The Harmony Project started to reimplement Qt under a free Lisence, a goal which became pointless after Toll Tech released Qt 2.0 under GPL.
besides google, where have you learned so much about kde and gnome history? :)

asimon
October 19th, 2005, 11:29 AM
besides google, where have you learned so much about kde and gnome history? :)
I use KDE since a long long time and watch it's development (sometimes I have Gnome or Enlightenment phases too) ... ;-)

asimon
October 19th, 2005, 11:32 AM
Oops. Sorry douple post.

GeneralZod
October 19th, 2005, 11:36 AM
besides google, where have you learned so much about kde and gnome history? :)

The answer to all of life's mysteries are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kde

;)

asimon
October 19th, 2005, 11:41 AM
The answer to all of life's mysteries are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kde

Ha, I was wrong with the year. A good link, thanks.

Malphas
October 19th, 2005, 12:03 PM
I don't think merging the two is a particularly good idea, variety and some competition is a good thing.

However, I still think that more effort should be made to improve interoperability between the different environments. If developers didn't have to worry about desktop environments, different toolkits, different package formats, etc. then we'd have a lot more choice as far as applications were concerned. What ever happened to freedesktop.org?