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Niek82
October 16th, 2005, 02:34 PM
Hi all!

I'm new here on this Ubuntu forum. I'm 23 years old, and live in Holland. I'm not new with Linux, but since a short time i'm active user of Ubuntu Linux (5.10).

I have already a question.

Many times i heard about operating systems on demand. That means that the whole OS runs from the Internet. Is it true that this is the future? I don't hope so, because the freedom from Linux is in that way very limited. Does anyone have more information about that?

So this was my first thread in this forum.

aysiu
October 16th, 2005, 04:21 PM
I hear talk of it, too, that Google will do something like that in the near future. I haven't seen any concrete evidence of its existence yet.

I don't think Linux is limited in that respect at all, though. After all, you have open source apps ported to Windows (GIMP, OpenOffice, etc.). You can run Linux embedded inside of Windows (Damn Small Linux). You have Linux live CDs (Ubuntu, Knoppix, Mepis, PCLinuxOS, etc.). There are plenty of non-commital ways to experience Linux without installing it on your hard drive.

Teroedni
October 16th, 2005, 04:36 PM
well what comes in the future depends on what you chosse to use.
I dont think os on demands will take over the world;)
But i may become popular:)

Lord Illidan
October 16th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Rumours have been released about a Google OS, but until the internet gets a little faster, it won't be much of a looker or a success.
I already know of online office applications using AJAX, but I can't say the same for an entire Operating System..
But then again, who knows what can happen 50 years from now? 50 years before, no one would have dared to predict the existence of this forum!

mstlyevil
October 16th, 2005, 05:21 PM
You are always going to need some kind of installed OS on your computer. I think what Google is looking into is offering applications that will run on the net making it unnecesary to have a bloated OS like windows to enjoy the benefits a large operating system. That does not make it an operating system but a net based applications platform. Without a OS on your computer you could not even access the net to enjoy the aplications that google will offer.

aysiu
October 16th, 2005, 05:27 PM
mstlyevil, technically what you're saying is true. From a practical standpoint, especially for "regular" computer users, an online applications platform makes the operating system choice moot, though, as long as you have a web browser and an internet connection. After all, most people just care about the applications (not me, of course, since all the applications I run are on Mac, Linux, and Windows, but most folks).

UbuWu
October 16th, 2005, 05:30 PM
You are always going to need some kind of installed OS on your computer. Without a OS on your computer you could not even access the net to enjoy the aplications that google will offer.

It is already possible to boot ubuntu over the network, you don't even need a harddrive (or any other storage device) in your pc. I expect that booting over the internet will be possible in the near future...

Niek82
October 16th, 2005, 07:27 PM
It is already possible to boot ubuntu over the network, you don't even need a harddrive (or any other storage device) in your pc. I expect that booting over the internet will be possible in the near future...

But when Linux runs by internet, is Linux so much free as now? Ithink it cost a lot of bandwitch when everyone use it by internet.

mstlyevil
October 16th, 2005, 07:32 PM
It is already possible to boot ubuntu over the network, you don't even need a harddrive (or any other storage device) in your pc. I expect that booting over the internet will be possible in the near future...

You still need DOS or some other basic OS for that to happen. Your ethernet card needs basic instructions to work properly.

PatrickMay16
October 16th, 2005, 08:57 PM
I'm not keen on the idea of an OS run from the internet. What if you have a whole load of computers which for some reason don't need to be connected to the internet at all?

UbuWu
October 16th, 2005, 09:00 PM
You still need DOS or some other basic OS for that to happen. Your ethernet card needs basic instructions to work properly.

No you don't. You only needs a bios that supports pxe (booting over network). See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto

mstlyevil
October 16th, 2005, 09:05 PM
No you don't. You only needs a bios that supports pxe (booting over network). See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
And the bios is a what? That would not be a very basic OS would it be? I don't know about your motherboard but my bios is dos based. You have not proven me wrong yet.

poptones
October 16th, 2005, 09:41 PM
The whole notion of a single operating system will change before too much longer. processors are fast enough and the machines complex enough that new CPUs will support virtualization of all functions down to the motherboard and system level calls. The "operating system" then is really little more than a scheduler that can allow multiple operating systems time sliced access to the same hardware.

This will, for example, allow not only running windows and linux on the same piece of hardware, but having them both display windows on the screen at the same time. They can even interact, via secure network sockets, in real time. This will allow "applications" to further become segregated into virtual "boxes of functionality" much like you go to the store now to buy a DVD player, a video recorder, or a refrigerator. How the devices interact will be more up to the designers and marketers who create and offer them.

It sounds scary, but it would allow (for example) anyone to CHOOSE only free software, or to choose not. It would allow you to run linux AND to get sound from windows media that doesn't suck (any more than windows media does itself). You can distribute a "free desktop" that embraces freedom, but will also operate with the non free world in nearly seamless fashion.

That's a threat to idealogues, but if you're truly about choice and freedom I would think you'd see this as a good thing.

UbuWu
October 16th, 2005, 11:56 PM
And the bios is a what? That would not be a very basic OS would it be? I don't know about your motherboard but my bios is dos based. You have not proven me wrong yet.

Not trying to prove you wrong. If you consider the bios an OS, you are right. I only think it is just a matter of time untill you can point your bios to google.com to boot google OS or something similair (Ubuntu?).

Btw. curious about your motherboard: what model is it and are you sure it is dos based? Never heard that before...

Gnobody
October 17th, 2005, 12:32 AM
Your bios is not "dos"-based, a black screen with white text is not always dos, it is the standard vga output for PCs.

mstlyevil
October 17th, 2005, 12:37 AM
Not trying to prove you wrong. If you consider the bios an OS, you are right. I only think it is just a matter of time untill you can point your bios to google.com to boot google OS or something similair (Ubuntu?).

Btw. curious about your motherboard: what model is it and are you sure it is dos based? Never heard that before...

I looked it up and almost all major motherboard manufactuers still use dos to program the bios.

UbuWu
October 17th, 2005, 12:57 AM
I looked it up and almost all major motherboard manufactuers still use dos to program the bios.

Don't know about the proprietary bioses, but the openbios (http://www.openbios.org/) is mainly programmed in C, a programming language, which can be done using any operating system. It just seems highly unlikely that they will be using dos to do that. Can you tell us where you looked it up?

poofyhairguy
October 17th, 2005, 03:57 AM
I would like an online system for my mom. Then Dell or Google or whoever is in charge of fixing her machine- not me!

mstlyevil
October 17th, 2005, 05:14 AM
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/B/BIOS.html

Here is the link to the web site I was using as a basis for my argument. I will repeat that I originally said that you need DOS or some other basic OS. But it is my understanding that dos is still used in bios even though NT technology has made it almost obsolete. So even if dos is not the exact code used to program bios, it is still a basic operating system.

poptones
October 17th, 2005, 02:03 PM
You have it backwards. BIOS means "basic i/o system" and DOS used the BIOS as its i/o handler. When you typed a character in DOS, it read the keybuf from the BIOS. When you wrote a file to the disk, it just called the board's disc handlign interfaces.

The new operating systems generally have their own routines to handle these functions and directly interface with the hardware themselves. The BIOS is now mostly just a bootstrap - a program that boots another program.