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chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 01:17 PM
i've been using tiling wm's for a couple of months now (mostly wmii), so i'm fully adjusted to them. last week sometime, i reinstalled fluxbox, but dumped it pretty soon as i just couldn't go back to it. if you're not familiar with tiling window managment, here's a little something on it - PathToGlory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager)
using one of these feels like real managment rather than the "did you get that thing i just tossed on your desk?" approach.

note: i realize this could boil over into a massive flame war (assuming it doesn't end up in an 'unanswered posts' search), so let's keep it civil.

atomkarinca
April 11th, 2008, 01:20 PM
The reason I'm not using one is that I've got compiz installed and scale plugin does it for me.

elmer_42
April 11th, 2008, 01:51 PM
I used to do that on windows with hard-resizes and the Tile group option. I haven't yet found a way to do it in Linux with GNOME/Compiz. I am looking at the scale plug-in and it does not resemble tiling at all.

aeiah
April 11th, 2008, 01:57 PM
U G L Y it aint got no alibi

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 01:58 PM
U G L Y it aint got no alibi

stepped in what?

TeraDyne
April 11th, 2008, 02:00 PM
U G L Y it aint got no alibi

Not only will I agree with you on that, but I don't think it looks efficient. Well, not for me, anyway.

LaRoza
April 11th, 2008, 02:02 PM
i've been using tiling wm's for a couple of months now (mostly wmii), so i'm fully adjusted to them. last week sometime, i reinstalled fluxbox, but dumped it pretty soon as i just couldn't go back to it. if you're not familiar with tiling window managment, here's a little something on it - PathToGlory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager)
using one of these feels like real managment rather than the "did you get that thing i just tossed on your desk?" approach.

note: i realize this could boil over into a massive flame war (assuming it doesn't end up in an 'unanswered posts' search), so let's keep it civil.

I'm game. What do you recommend?

Tomatz
April 11th, 2008, 02:05 PM
U G L Y it aint got no alibi

:lolflag:

You might as well install riscos.

Luffield
April 11th, 2008, 02:24 PM
It's possible to do it with Compiz 0.7.4. It's called Maximumize. Very handy.

LaRoza
April 11th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Just install wmii, I am hooked.

Thanks fuscia, I was looking for something like this, but didn't know it already existed.

stoodleysnow
April 11th, 2008, 02:29 PM
why doesn't everyone use a tiling window manager?
Because not all of us like them.:popcorn:

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 02:30 PM
I'm game. What do you recommend?

i think dwm is maybe the simplest. wmii is the parent of dwm, has more code, but is more configurable. awesome and xmonad aren't in the repos. shearn89 has a nice howto on awesome and i found a howto for xmonad, but it's a giant pain in the butt and i don't like it that much.

more tiling fun - http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/inspiration.html (it's actually more anti-mouse than pro-tiling)

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Just install wmii, I am hooked.

Thanks fuscia, I was looking for something like this, but didn't know it already existed.

i'm betting you'll never go back.

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 02:52 PM
It's possible to do it with Compiz 0.7.4. It's called Maximumize. Very handy.

well, any window manager can maximize an app. tiling is well beyond that. also, a lot of the tiling window managers can switch to 'float' mode in which they behave as the standard window managers do.

i'm not sure i get the 'ugly' comments. attached is a screenshot of awesome wm with the status bar hidden (it appearance is greatly configurable, but i'm new to awesome). as you can see, it's just a wallpaper (maybe you don't like yellow, though?). opened apps just look like opened apps. which tiling wm's have you guys used (ion3, i'm betting)?


edit: whoa! sorry for the triple post.

popch
April 11th, 2008, 02:53 PM
i realize this could boil over into a massive flame war (assuming it doesn't end up in an 'unanswered posts' search), so let's keep it civil.

WHAT - YOU INCREDIBLE ...

(just joking)

My screens at home (where I use Linux) are tiny (1024*768-ish), and my documents aren't. I would not even look at a tiling window manager. Most of the time, I just use all of the screen for the application I am working in. I am very grateful for the virtual desktops.

I did use some applications which tiled quite nicely, but that was back when I still wrote programs.

Good to know, though, that there are decent tiling windows managers. Thanks for the tip, Chucksia.

Tomatz
April 11th, 2008, 02:55 PM
well, any window manager can maximize an app. tiling is well beyond that. also, a lot of the tiling window managers can switch to 'float' mode in which they behave as the standard window managers do.

i'm not sure i get the 'ugly' comments. attached is a screenshot of awesome wm with the status bar hidden (it appearance is greatly configurable, but i'm new to awesome). as you can see, it's just a wallpaper (maybe you don't like yellow, though?). opened apps just look like opened apps. which tiling wm's have you guys used (ion3, i'm betting)?


edit: whoa! sorry for the triple post.

Each to their own. Its not for me though.

23meg
April 11th, 2008, 03:00 PM
well, any window manager can maximize an app. tiling is well beyond that. also, a lot of the tiling window managers can switch to 'float' mode in which they behave as the standard window managers do.

Maximumize != maximize. It actually does (primitive) tiling.

fwojciec
April 11th, 2008, 03:05 PM
I used to use tilers, but I got bored with them. Or maybe I realized that I never need multiple apps/windows open on one screen at the same time. I tend to fullscreen applications that I use instead and I find that openbox with its ToggleFullscreen, ToggleMaximizeFull and ToggleDecorations actions is the most convenient choice for me. Also, alt tabbing still seems the most natural way to switch between apps when I need to do that.

piousp
April 11th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Chucky,
what are the benefits of using a tiling wmanager over a desktop one?

I'm curious, i'm gonna try it tonigh :KS

LaRoza
April 11th, 2008, 03:14 PM
Chucky,
what are the benefits of using a tiling wmanager over a desktop one?


Effeciency it seems (only after a few minutes, I found wmii to be better than what I used before)

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 03:17 PM
Maximumize != maximize. It actually does (primitive) tiling.

wouldn't that make it a tiling manager, then?



Chucky,
what are the benefits of using a tiling wmanager over a desktop one?

I'm curious, i'm gonna try it tonigh :KS

in my experience, regular wm's either open apps one on top of another, or at least overlapping one another. tiling wm's will open one app usually maximized and then divide the screen with a second app with no overlapping. how it divides the screen varies with different wm's (wmii will do columns, grids, max stacked, float). there are also different workspaces and easy ways to move or stick an app on another space. most of the ones i've tried go pretty easy on resources, as well.

bonzodog
April 11th, 2008, 03:20 PM
I use openbox, but I would love to see a tiling patch/plugin for it. The devs seem to say that it could be easily implemented. Looking at dwm's code, I am beginning to think they might be right.

fwojciec
April 11th, 2008, 03:26 PM
I use openbox, but I would love to see a tiling patch/plugin for it. The devs seem to say that it could be easily implemented. Looking at dwm's code, I am beginning to think they might be right.
From Dana Jansesn's post to the Openbox mailing list:

> Also, as far as I know there is not an action to auto-arrange windows (split
> them among the screen like a tiling WM). Is this planned for the future?

I'm considering adding some tiling capabilities to Openbox, letting
you optionally change windows into/out of tiled mode.
I agree, this would be a cool feature -- and for my purposes better than having tiling as the default behavior.

piousp
April 11th, 2008, 03:27 PM
So, can I just change Kwin for wmii??? Or i just dont know what i'm talking about?

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 03:36 PM
So, can I just change Kwin for wmii??? Or i just dont know what i'm talking about?

i don't know about wmii, but xmonad has instructions for using it in kde - http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Using_xmonad_in_KDE

mali2297
April 11th, 2008, 04:02 PM
After been using awesome window manager (http://awesome.naquadah.org/) for a few months, I decided to try Fluxbox the other week. It was really snazzy looking and had neat features, but the window placement was horrible! I had to manually rearrange the windows to not overlap. I tried the ArrangeWindows action but found it primitive to say the least.

I guess it's true, once you have got accustomed to a tiling window manager there is no turning back.

hessiess
April 11th, 2008, 04:36 PM
looks like Blenders UI. while its good for a 3D app, I dont see how much use it would be if you were running 20-50 apps unless you had a 6' display

Tomatz
April 11th, 2008, 04:56 PM
After been using awesome window manager (http://awesome.naquadah.org/) for a few months, I decided to try Fluxbox the other week. It was really snazzy looking and had neat features, but the window placement was horrible! I had to manually rearrange the windows to not overlap. I tried the ArrangeWindows action but found it primitive to say the least.

I guess it's true, once you have got accustomed to a tiling window manager there is no turning back.

Over lapping windows or something akin to a ZX Spectrum. Hmmmm...


I think i'll choose overlapping windows ;)

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 05:01 PM
Over lapping windows or something akin to a ZX Spectrum. Hmmmm...


I think i'll choose overlapping windows ;)

which tiling window manager have you used? i'm confused by some of your comments.

Tomatz
April 11th, 2008, 05:04 PM
which tiling window manager have you used? i'm confused by some of your comments.


I personally wouldn't use one as my screen resolution is perfectly high enough for me to have plenty of desktop space.

I was commenting on this screenshot:


http://awesome.naquadah.org/screenshots/1.png

Tomatz
April 11th, 2008, 05:08 PM
Also i'm a bit of a sucker for bling ;)

23meg
April 11th, 2008, 05:26 PM
wouldn't that make it a tiling manager, then?

No, you hit a key combination to make a specific window use the maximum available space.

derekr44
April 11th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Not only will I agree with you on that, but I don't think it looks efficient. Well, not for me, anyway.

I agree too. I don't like the way it looks at all and is very distracting for me. Way too cluttered.

To each his own though.

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 06:20 PM
I personally wouldn't use one as my screen resolution is perfectly high enough for me to have plenty of desktop space.

I was commenting on this screenshot:

http://awesome.naquadah.org/screenshots/1.png

that screenshot is more the result of user error than the nature of the window manager. i wouldn't say my screenshot is ugly, but it might be a bit minimal for your tastes.

sujoy
April 11th, 2008, 07:09 PM
that screenshot is more the result of user error than the nature of the window manager. i wouldn't say my screenshot is ugly, but it might be a bit minimal for your tastes.

wow, great, can you link that wallpaper, (the one with the girl running ) :)

i am using awesome for a month now and really its going to stay forever. just eases the pain of arranging windows, and also i can just set a rule to always open a particular app like say (thunar) in floating mode or whatever.

here's a screenshot i took of my this months setup featuring awesome
http://binarycodes.deviantart.com/art/Awesome-Arch-82305866

Tomatz
April 11th, 2008, 07:09 PM
that screenshot is more the result of user error than the nature of the window manager. i wouldn't say my screenshot is ugly, but it might be a bit minimal for your tastes.

Original :)

But I like bling ;)

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Original :)

But I like bling ;)

looks like vegas on a rainy night.

swoll1980
April 11th, 2008, 07:12 PM
I can't even get my gf to use the sliders on the touch pad, or the wheel on the mouse. No matter how hard I try she grabs the tab on the side of the window. Some people just don't like easy.

SomeGuyDude
April 11th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Aesthetics, for me. That looks like a computer screen and I prefer "objects". It's why I use GNOME and not one of the *boxes.

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 07:15 PM
wow, great, can you link that wallpaper, (the one with the girl running ) :)


see attached (it's too big to post directly)

Tomatz
April 11th, 2008, 07:16 PM
looks like vegas on a rainy night.


More like Clackton pier!


:lolflag:

qamelian
April 11th, 2008, 07:21 PM
I can't even get my gf to use the sliders on the touch pad, or the wheel on the mouse. No matter how hard I try she grabs the tab on the side of the window. Some people just don't like easy.
It depends on your definition of easy. I find tiling window manager very distracting and annoying to use. I've tried several, for an extended period of time each time, to see if I can get used to the difference, but I always revert to the more typical style of window management. Personally, I would rather floss my tender bits with barbed wire than ever use a tiling window manager again.

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 07:32 PM
More like Clackton pier!


no, no. your's is definitely more high dollar than that.


Personally, I would rather floss my tender bits with barbed wire than ever use a tiling window manager again.

looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on that point.


i can certainly see others being interested in fancy things, though they're not for me. despite my taste for pretty things, i'm essentially utilitarian and minimalist. i probably should have addressed my original question more towards the box users. clearly, if you like all that fluffy compiz stuff, you definitely can't get that in dwm, etc.

my 'gut feeling' is that, if a window manager's prime purpose is the managment of windows, it seems reasonable to expect the windows to be laid out in an orderly fashion rather than just tossed down anywhere. though, if you looked at my real desk, you'd wonder why i cared.

LaRoza
April 11th, 2008, 07:37 PM
i can certainly see others being interested in fancy things, though they're not for me. despite my taste for pretty things, i'm essentially utilitarian and minimalist. i probably should have addressed my original question more towards the box users. clearly, if you like all that fluffy compiz stuff, you definitely can't get that in dwm, etc.

my 'gut feeling' is that, if a window manager's prime purpose is the managment of windows, it seems reasonable to expect the windows to be laid out in an orderly fashion rather than just tossed down anywhere. though, if you looked at my real desk, you'd wonder why i cared.

I have wished for something like this. I hate overlapping Windows, and having to use the mouse. Fluxbox was my favourite, but it was the worse at that.

I love wmii now. It is perfect. Thanks fuscia, I am indebted to you.

swoll1980
April 11th, 2008, 07:37 PM
It depends on your definition of easy. I find tiling window manager very distracting and annoying to use. I've tried several, for an extended period of time each time, to see if I can get used to the difference, but I always revert to the more typical style of window management. Personally, I would rather floss my tender bits with barbed wire than ever use a tiling window manager again.

I've never even used a tiling window manager before I was just venting some fustration :)

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 07:38 PM
I love wmii now. It is perfect. Thanks fuscia, I am indebted to you.

entirely my pleasure. enjoy!

Foster Grant
April 11th, 2008, 07:43 PM
my 'gut feeling' is that, if a window manager's prime purpose is the managment of windows, it seems reasonable to expect the windows to be laid out in an orderly fashion rather than just tossed down anywhere.

Shouldn't the primary function of a window manager be to manage windows in whatever way the individual user deems most useful?

finferflu
April 11th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Shouldn't the primary function of a window manager be to manage windows in whatever way the individual user deems most useful?
Unfortunately, the classic "grab, move and resize everything manually" is the de facto standard nowadays. So, I guess the majority of people don't even know or think about the possibility of an automatic window manager. However I reckon tiling WMs are spreading out lately, which is a good thing (especially for what I'm going to say).

After a long period of using wmii, Ratpoison, dwm, Ratpoison, Xmonad and Ratpoison I finally went back to Gnome, just because it seems that most (if not all) of the apps are designed to work with the "standard" manual WMs, so you get annoying problems of compatibility. So, in order to enjoy a better experience with the single apps, I decided to sacrifice automation, and I try to live with the limited tiling capabilities that Compiz offers me.

However, I think wmii is so far the most comfrtable one compatibility-wise, even though I *hate* resizing the frames with the pointer, I think it's bloody non-sensical.
I think I'm going to give wmii another go, anyway :P

LaRoza
April 11th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Unfortunately, the classic "grab, move and resize everything manually" is the de facto standard nowadays. So, I guess the majority of people don't even know or think about the possibility of an automatic window manager. However I reckon tiling WMs are spreading out lately, which is a good thing (especially for what I'm going to say).

After a long period of using wmii, Ratpoison, dwm, Ratpoison, Xmonad and Ratpoison I finally went back to Gnome, just because it seems that most (if not all) of the apps are designed to work with the "standard" manual WMs, so you get annoying problems of compatibility. So, in order to enjoy a better experience with the single apps, I decided to sacrifice automation, and I try to live with the limited tiling capabilities that Compiz offers me.


I use terminal apps mostly now.

wmii allows for the easy creation of xterms (what I use anyway) in a way that is very handy.

qamelian
April 11th, 2008, 08:12 PM
looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

I guess it depends on what feels comfortable depending on a users work habits. I can understand why some users might prefer and benefit from a tiling window manager, but I find them clumsy and restricting based on the work habits that tend to be most productive for me.

For me, it's not a "bling"issue. Tiling is just not a method of window management that I find intuitive or useful except for very specific tasks.

The most important thing, and one of the reasons I prefer Linux (and *nix in general), is to be able to create an environment that works for the individual end-user.

kerry_s
April 11th, 2008, 08:15 PM
i need click friendly, most of time i'm laid back and don't really want to get up to use the keyboard.

but, i'm pretty set on jwm, i'm still learning as i go the many things it can do. there's like zilch in the way of info for tweaking jwm, so it's all trial & error for me. i just love that it's so simple.

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 08:15 PM
Shouldn't the primary function of a window manager be to manage windows in whatever way the individual user deems most useful?

wmii, dwm, awesome and xmonad offer float mode as well as tiling, giving the user more choices for managment schemes. of course, if you know that all you're ever going to prefer is float mode, then there may be some other options traditional wm's offer (scrollable desktop, right-click menus, window decorations, etc.). i'm not really trying to beat the drum for tiling (i really just wanted to talk about my current obsession), but i do have a hard time getting how overlapping apps makes more sense than tiling. i'm not saying it doesn't, just that i don't get it.

popcorn, anyone?
:popcorn:

geoken
April 11th, 2008, 08:29 PM
my 'gut feeling' is that, if a window manager's prime purpose is the managment of windows, it seems reasonable to expect the windows to be laid out in an orderly fashion rather than just tossed down anywhere. though, if you looked at my real desk, you'd wonder why i cared.

I guess the opposing argument would be; if a window managers prime purpose is to manage windows in a fashion conducive to your workflow, it seems resonable to expect a window manager not to resize window's that you specifically scaled to an optimal size.

For example, if I'm using eclispe the optimal size is where the side panel is wide enough for my functions/classes to be fully displayed and the main coding window is wide enough that 95% of my code is readable without the neccesity of the vertical scroller. If my WM alters this to prevent windows from overlaping then my window manager is detracting from my workflow and the optimal usage of my apps.

Foster Grant
April 11th, 2008, 08:32 PM
I guess it depends on what feels comfortable depending on a users work habits. I can understand why some users might prefer and benefit from a tiling window manager, but I find them clumsy and restricting based on the work habits that tend to be most productive for me.

For me, it's not a "bling"issue. Tiling is just not a method of window management that I find intuitive or useful except for very specific tasks.

The most important thing, and one of the reasons I prefer Linux (and *nix in general), is to be able to create an environment that works for the individual end-user.

Exactly.

Terminal-based apps work well in tiled environments. I use OO.org, GIMP/Cinepaint, Inkscape and Scribus a lot, along with Firefox and Thunderbird. Terminal I use for sudo file management, man pages and running ddate, and that's about it. For me, GNOME's multiple-workspace environment makes more sense than one which forces everything into a side-by-side-by-side organization.

Tiling window managers work for certain people in certain situations. If that's what the majority of users wanted or needed, then TWMs would be standard equipment. Fortunately, one of the advantages of Linux is that each individual user can do it his (or her — saving me from maco's virtual wrath) way.

finferflu
April 11th, 2008, 08:35 PM
I use terminal apps mostly now.

wmii allows for the easy creation of xterms (what I use anyway) in a way that is very handy.
Well, this leads to another discussion (http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=42773)...

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 09:15 PM
I guess the opposing argument would be; if a window managers prime purpose is to manage windows in a fashion conducive to your workflow, it seems resonable to expect a window manager not to resize window's that you specifically scaled to an optimal size.



For me, GNOME's multiple-workspace environment makes more sense than one which forces everything into a side-by-side-by-side organization.

it doesn't force you. that's what float mode is for. perhaps you all aren't familiar with float mode. it's the same as traditional window managment. there are no window decs to drag stuff around though, so if all you ever use is float mode, you might get sick of alt+right-click.

mrgnash
April 11th, 2008, 10:18 PM
Because they are U to the G to the L to the Y. :mad:

chucky chuckaluck
April 11th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Because they are U to the G to the L to the Y. :mad:

how can a wallpaper with some open apps be ugly? i can see 'boring', maybe.

urukrama
April 11th, 2008, 10:54 PM
i can certainly see others being interested in fancy things, though they're not for me. despite my taste for pretty things, i'm essentially utilitarian and minimalist. i probably should have addressed my original question more towards the box users. clearly, if you like all that fluffy compiz stuff, you definitely can't get that in dwm, etc.

I consider myself a minimalist and utilitarian when it comes to window managers, but I've never found tiling window managers useful for me. I've given them a serious try (mainly wmii), but I always end up having everything in float mode, and don't see the point of using a tiling window manager then. Openbox and Pekwm still do the trick for me.

I have only a 1024x768 screen resolution, and work mainly with OpenOffice, Opera, StarDict and other similar programs. Tiling wms always make your window horizontally smaller, which is annoying with text processors like OO Writer, as you are forced to zoom out or continually scroll horizontally. I don't find unmaximized windows on such a screen size very efficient. I see the point of tiling wms if you use mainly terminals and command-line apps, but for text processing and editing (or image editing, I suppose) I don't find them useful.

I want my window manager to remain largely unnoticed, and tiling window managers make me more aware of the wm (as opposed to the application I am using, or rather the task I am using it for), than do Openbox or Pekwm.

geoken
April 12th, 2008, 01:51 AM
it doesn't force you. that's what float mode is for. perhaps you all aren't familiar with float mode. it's the same as traditional window managment. there are no window decs to drag stuff around though, so if all you ever use is float mode, you might get sick of alt+right-click.

I realize most, if not all, can have the tiling behaviour disabled on an app by app basis. My point was, if you find that you're using float mode more often than not, the tiling window manager probably isn't for you. (this would be the category I fit into)

LaRoza
April 12th, 2008, 01:59 AM
I realize most, if not all, can have the tiling behaviour disabled on an app by app basis. My point was, if you find that you're using float mode more often than not, the tiling window manager probably isn't for you. (this would be the category I fit into)

It doesn't work well with all apps. For me, it is exactly what I wanted. I loved fluxbox but for the overlapping Windows.

Now, I don't have to worry about that and don't have to constantly shuffle windows around.

For the apps I use, and the things I do, this is perfect. Even added it to my blog (third entry...)

chucky chuckaluck
April 12th, 2008, 04:31 AM
hey, you guys want bling? i got your bling, right here. xmonad, folks.

:guitar:

init1
April 12th, 2008, 04:47 AM
I used ion2 (ion3 has some improvements though) for a long time. It's great :D
dwm and wmii are fun too

elmer_42
April 14th, 2008, 03:03 AM
I would love to try out wmii, but I don't know how to kill GNOME or whatever window manager is default in Ubuntu. :/

LaRoza
April 14th, 2008, 03:27 AM
I would love to try out wmii, but I don't know how to kill GNOME or whatever window manager is default in Ubuntu. :/

Install wmii, log out, and select "wmii" under Sessions on the log in screen.

elmer_42
April 14th, 2008, 04:25 AM
Thanks! I am using it right now, but am not entirely certain what to think. For one, it does automatically what I usually do manually, but the keyboard shortcuts are hard to remember. Somebody needs to make a cheat sheet, akin to this: http://lesliefranke.com/2006/06/mozilla-firefox-cheat-sheet-update/. But anyway, here is what I am doing right now:
http://arch.kimag.es/thumbs/86737075.png (http://arch.kimag.es/share/86737075.png)

finferflu
April 14th, 2008, 07:57 AM
Thanks! I am using it right now, but am not entirely certain what to think. For one, it does automatically what I usually do manually, but the keyboard shortcuts are hard to remember. Somebody needs to make a cheat sheet, akin to this: http://lesliefranke.com/2006/06/mozilla-firefox-cheat-sheet-update/. But anyway, here is what I am doing right now:
http://arch.kimag.es/thumbs/86737075.png (http://arch.kimag.es/share/86737075.png)
wmii uses Vim-like keybindings. So you could as well learn Vim while learning wmii. And also, you could install Vimperator (http://vimperator.mozdev.org) for Firefox, so you won't have to reach the mouse every time while browsing.
I also suggest you to run "gnome-settings-daemon", it will load your default Gnome settings. At least that's what I do.

Gigamo
April 14th, 2008, 08:37 AM
Tiling WM's for the win. I love the tiling mode and being able to do EVERYthing with my keyboard. I also don't need the bells and whistles a full DE/Compiz offers.

Here's a picture of my Awesome setup (my WM of choice)

http://users.telenet.be/gigamo/pics/currentt.png (http://users.telenet.be/gigamo/pics/current.png)

PartisanEntity
April 14th, 2008, 10:38 AM
In reference to OP, doesn't look good IMO, looks too cluttered.

Tomatz
April 14th, 2008, 12:10 PM
Tiling WM's for the win. I love the tiling mode and being able to do EVERYthing with my keyboard. I also don't need the bells and whistles a full DE/Compiz offers.

Here's a picture of my Awesome setup (my WM of choice)

http://users.telenet.be/gigamo/pics/currentt.png (http://users.telenet.be/gigamo/pics/current.png)


Would you use compiz if your processor was faster than 800mhz (i assume that is your processor depicted in the graph/monitor)?

Gigamo
April 14th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Would you use compiz if your processor was faster than 800mhz (i assume that is your processor depicted in the graph/monitor)?

My cpu is 2.4GHz, just running at 800MHz for power saving :)

I ran compiz when I started using linux, but as I said, I don't need/want all those bells and whistles/resource usage when I can do without :P

Tomatz
April 14th, 2008, 01:16 PM
My cpu is 2.4GHz, just running at 800MHz for power saving :)

I ran compiz when I started using linux, but as I said, I don't need/want all those bells and whistles/resource usage when I can do without :P

Resource usage i cant see you doing anything that would warrant running riscos to save resources ;P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riscos

Why do i run compiz?

Because i can ;)

:lolflag:

Onyros
April 14th, 2008, 01:21 PM
I've used Awesome for some time now, probably since version 2 was still in beta, and apart from when it's really needed I only tile terminals. The other apps I either use maximized or floating, and I still find Awesome to be really efficient at that, because one can change layouts on the fly, and it still doesn't overlap floating windows when their width or height is small enough.

Plus, Awesome is so flexible (the config files are... awesome) and lightweight that I've stopped using Fluxbox altogether, even though I don't strictly work with tiled windows.

I made a little video of a project I've been working on the past few months (and K. Mandla must still be thinking it's some form of vaporware, because I promised something several months ago and am still working on it).

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1326/screenshotqh6.th.png (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotqh6.png)

12MB AVI (http://www.skinveil.com/satori/satori.avi) Showing it off :)

That's the Awesome window manager, with 9 tags, which is its default, but as I use a mix of max, floating and tiled windows, I actually use them all and have everything configured to do so. And I really don't think that's ugly ;)

Gigamo
April 14th, 2008, 01:32 PM
Resource usage i cant see you doing anything that would warrant running riscos to save resources ;P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riscos

Why do i run compiz?

Because i can ;)

:lolflag:

Resource usage as in saving battery life.

Also, just because you can doesn't mean you should ;)

Tomatz
April 14th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Resource usage as in saving battery life.

Also, just because you can doesn't mean you should ;)


HeHe

Just joking!

Each to their own ;)

Gigamo
April 14th, 2008, 02:00 PM
No offense intended ;)

Each to his own indeed.

LaRoza
April 14th, 2008, 02:37 PM
I have two images of wmii on my blog if one wants to see my using them.

The first image is old, before I got used to tagging.

The second image is my using it now. Although you can't see it, I have three "desktops". I can switch to my browser, my programming environment, and another app I had open without clutter, overlapping windows, uselss movement, and with great efficiency.

(Note, I can see how some apps would be a pain to use in wmii, but I don't use them)

chucky chuckaluck
April 14th, 2008, 03:55 PM
In reference to OP, doesn't look good IMO, looks too cluttered.

too cluttered? i'm not sure what you mean (see attached screenshot). if i opened more apps on that 'workspace', they would tile with the one already opened, in a number of schemes, or if i were in float mode, they would probably get tossed on top of one another (in the same style regular wm users have grown accustomed to). or, i could just open one app per workspace. with the tiling wm's we've been talking about (wmii, dwm and awesome), one can still use the overlap method, but one can also tile. it's not a matter of giving up overlapping for tiling, it's having both (though tiling is usually the default).


aside from "because i can", the best use of compiz is to see what's underneath the top app in an overlapping scheme (think of it like superman's x-ray vision. it even goes up in flames if you stare at it for too long).

finferflu
April 14th, 2008, 09:38 PM
In reference to OP, doesn't look good IMO, looks too cluttered.
I think I know what you mean. The first time I used a tiling WM (it was exaclty wmii), I felt somewhat claustrophobic: there was no space between the windows!
Anyway, after all I found out that the space I was looking for was just a waste of screen estate, and I ended up tiling my windows manually when using plain old fashioned WMs.

y-lee
April 14th, 2008, 10:42 PM
I use dwm as well as gnome. dwm is much lighter on resources :)


http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/425005/sdwm0.jpeg
Original image (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/26/425005/Images/Ubuntu/dwm0.jpeg)

HermanAB
April 14th, 2008, 10:54 PM
Well, a tiling WM is so 20th century - I'm afraid that the next thing you'll want is punch cards and paper tape...
;)

y-lee
April 14th, 2008, 11:00 PM
Well, a tiling WM is so 20th century - I'm afraid that the next thing you'll want is punch cards and paper tape...
;)


:lolflag:

I learned how to program using punched cards and paper tape. I miss that pdp 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11) :(

beefcurry
April 14th, 2008, 11:05 PM
I am still amazed how people back then used those with LowRes Monitors..

y-lee
April 14th, 2008, 11:08 PM
I am still amazed how people back then used those with LowRes Monitors..

We didn't know any better :) Btw I was delighted when i finally bought a timex sinclair piece of junk and hooked to my Tv and a cassette tape recorder. :lolflag:

phrostbyte
April 14th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Compiz needs an advanced tiling plugin. I like the usability of tiled window managers but I love the flashy eyecandy of Compiz. What to do? What to do? :(

red_Marvin
April 14th, 2008, 11:47 PM
I tried awesome, maybe a month ago and never looked back except for two things.
- etqw seemed to freeze more often (i still log into gnome for that)
- I couldn't easily change keyboard layout (tc:e doesn't detect some international keys)
The latter has been solved since I found out about setxkbmap.


If my WM alters this to prevent windows from overlaping then my window manager is detracting from my workflow and the optimal usage of my apps.Well you can still set how big part of the screen each app gets, and if that doesn't solve it just move the other windows to another virtual desktop.


Tiling wms always make your window horizontally smaller , which is annoying with text processors like OO Writer, as you are forced to zoom out or continually scroll horizontally. I don't find unmaximized windows on such a screen size very efficient. I see the point of tiling wms if you use mainly terminals and command-line apps, but for text processing and editing (or image editing, I suppose) I don't find them useful.

I want my window manager to remain largely unnoticed, and tiling window managers make me more aware of the wm (as opposed to the application I am using, or rather the task I am using it for), than do Openbox or Pekwm.Could you please elaborate on the "horizontally smaller" part? I don't get what you mean, usually tiling window managers take up less space than non-tiling, from my experience at least. Do you mean when having multiple apps open? If so, that can be solved by using multiple workspaces.

And about the unmaximized part, yes of course, but when I need a big window I dedicate a whole virtual desktop for it, and I did with non-tiling wm's too.

Finally, I don't notice awesome now that I use it, and I didn't notice gnome's wm much before either, I think it depends very much on what one has grown accustomed to.

Oh well to each their own, I use dvorak too... ;)

Jareth
April 15th, 2008, 12:42 AM
Wow, just saw this post a few minutes ago and thought, WTF?
So I've installed wmii and am running it now, all I can say is, ooooooo!

I think I'll stick with this now on my ye olde machine

LaRoza
April 15th, 2008, 12:51 AM
Wow, just saw this post a few minutes ago and thought, WTF?
So I've installed wmii and am running it now, all I can say is, ooooooo!

I think I'll stick with this now on my ye olde machine

It is good isn't it?

The tagging is even better than multiple desktops.

chucky chuckaluck
April 15th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Could you please elaborate on the "horizontally smaller" part?

i think i understand that. it hadn't occurred to me before, but i wonder if i'd be as comfortable with tiling if i didn't have a widescreen laptop. if i weren't, the simple solution would be different workspaces for each app. there are plenty of wm options for workspaces (i've even tried messing with screen in the console recently).

a frustration i had with gnome was when i started to enjoy the pleasures of scrollable workspaces (anywhere on the desktop) and right-click menus. i found it puzzling that gnome (well, more metacity and nautilus) couldn't do either. i guess compiz has solved the problem of scrolling workspaces.

finferflu
April 15th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Talking about eyecandy: does anyone know a good font to use on wmii? Unfortunately Xft is not enabled (thus no anti-aliasing).

Gigamo
April 15th, 2008, 10:37 AM
Talking about eyecandy: does anyone know a good font to use on wmii? Unfortunately Xft is not enabled (thus no anti-aliasing).

Terminus, Profont and smoothansi are quite nice in statusbars :)

Sugz
April 15th, 2008, 12:15 PM
Erm i wouldnt use a tilling wm because
#1 They are ugly as hell
#2 The Desktop can become overwhelmed with information making the experience stressfull.

Gigamo
April 15th, 2008, 12:59 PM
Erm i wouldnt use a tilling wm because
#1 They are ugly as hell
#2 The Desktop can become overwhelmed with information making the experience stressfull.

Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. How can the desktop become overwhelmed though? You are in control of everything. Hell, for all I know awesome/dwm both have 9 tags to put windows on.

chucky chuckaluck
April 15th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Erm i wouldnt use a tilling wm because
#1 They are ugly as hell
#2 The Desktop can become overwhelmed with information making the experience stressfull.

both points have been addressed repeatedly, but anyway... like openbox and fluxbox, most of these tiling wm's are just a blank slate with either a status bar, or nothing at all. they're obviously configurable and so too is how information gets laid out. in wmii, dwm, awesome and xmonad, you have the standard float and one app per workspace choices and you have the option to tile too. (perhaps this wasn't made clear in previous posts?)

notwen
April 15th, 2008, 01:33 PM
tiles always get that grime in between them. *nod*

chucky chuckaluck
April 15th, 2008, 04:44 PM
tiles always get that grime in between them. *nod*

http://utenti.lycos.it/doh/indexfiles/homer_doh.gif

notwen
April 15th, 2008, 05:16 PM
http://utenti.lycos.it/doh/indexfiles/homer_doh.gif

http://www.seomoz.org/images/upload/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

herbster
April 15th, 2008, 07:06 PM
They're just too ******* ugly. I'm quite minimalistic with my desktop, but they just look straight jacked from a Commodore.

LaRoza
April 15th, 2008, 07:08 PM
They're just too ******* ugly. I'm quite minimalistic with my desktop, but they just look straight jacked from a Commodore.

Given that I never see my desktop, I wouldn't be able to say they are or are not ugly.

I love being able to do things without having to hunt.

chucky chuckaluck
April 15th, 2008, 07:53 PM
what's up with all the 'ugly' comments? i'm using xmonad right now. all i can see are terminals (which i can make look however i want), opera or firefox, thunar (which will look like whichever gtk theme and icon set i choose). how is that any different from any other DE/wm? ok, there are no fussy little window decorations and no panels in xmonad. if you want to call it bland, fine. i can see that. but, to call it 'ugly' is like saying you think distilled water tastes disgusting. nodamine?

notwen
April 15th, 2008, 07:59 PM
I personally have nothing for or against tiling WM, I'm just too lazy/busy to try it out at the moment. Maybe somewhere in the near future I can have more time to tinker w/ new Distros/DEs/WMs etc. Rest assured all of your different ideas are being taken as notes. =]

LaRoza
April 15th, 2008, 08:03 PM
what's up with all the 'ugly' comments? i'm using xmonad right now. all i can see are terminals (which i can make look however i want), opera or firefox, thunar (which will look like whichever gtk theme and icon set i choose). how is that any different from any other DE/wm? ok, there are no fussy little window decorations and no panels in xmonad. if you want to call it bland, fine. i can see that. but, to call it 'ugly' is like saying you think distilled water tastes disgusting. nodamine?

Yes. I don't understand it either. Yes, there isn't much to look at, but a blank desktop is useless.

Yes, my setup is bland when blank, but when I am using my computer I don't sit there staring at the blank screen.

Erik Trybom
April 15th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Because I maximize all my windows. Being on a small (1024x768) laptop screen, that's the least annoying setup.

I also have a big taskbar on autohide to the left, where all the open windows are stacked. Thus switching windows never require more than one click, and I don't have to waste precious screen area on a bottom-taskbar.

herbster
April 15th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Bland perhaps is more accurate. I dunno, of the dozens of screenshots I've seen, they all look like Broderick's ready to start hacking in War Games. Of course the apps are the same, but most SS's I see it's like 37 terminals, it just looks terrible.

phrostbyte
April 15th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Bland perhaps is more accurate. I dunno, of the dozens of screenshots I've seen, they all look like Broderick's ready to start hacking in War Games. Of course the apps are the same, but most SS's I see it's like 37 terminals, it just looks terrible.

That's what I mean when there should be a advanced tile plugin for Compiz or something. I can not argue with the usability of tiled window managers though especially on a big monitor. It just makes some tasks like programming so much easier. But it's hard for me to get rid of the crazy eyecandy of Compiz :)

Gigamo
April 15th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Bland perhaps is more accurate. I dunno, of the dozens of screenshots I've seen, they all look like Broderick's ready to start hacking in War Games. Of course the apps are the same, but most SS's I see it's like 37 terminals, it just looks terrible.

Why use GUI apps when CLI does it better :)

This better then?

LaRoza
April 15th, 2008, 09:21 PM
Bland perhaps is more accurate. I dunno, of the dozens of screenshots I've seen, they all look like Broderick's ready to start hacking in War Games. Of course the apps are the same, but most SS's I see it's like 37 terminals, it just looks terrible.

That is misleading those screenshots. Yes, my blog has a screenshot with three terminals on it. That is just to demonstrate how it works (and I use the setup you see for programming, not something everyone does)

The best thing about wmii I think is the tagging, next to the tiling. Instead of having multiple desktops, you have tags (which really work the same way if you want them to)

My screenshot doesn't show it, but I have Opera and another app open elsewhere, easily navigated to with my keyboard.

Having more than four windows open on a single tag (desktop) is too much I think. With my 22" monitor, three is the limit I would use for actual productivity.

finferflu
April 15th, 2008, 11:17 PM
As I said above, I think the only thing that it's really missing is support for anti-aliased fonts. Those fonts are incredibly ugly. I can understand the reasons why the devs didn't include such support, but I hope somebody comes up with something.

By the way, Gigamo, thanks for your suggestion. Terminus seems quite elegant, but I still have to try out the other two.

y-lee
April 15th, 2008, 11:34 PM
As I said above, I think the only thing that it's really missing is support for anti-aliased fonts. Those fonts are incredibly ugly. I can understand the reasons why the devs didn't include such support, but I hope somebody comes up with something.

By the way, Gigamo, thanks for your suggestion. Terminus seems quite elegant, but I still have to try out the other two.


Doesn't X windows support anti-aliased fonts (http://www.rockhopper.dk/linux/software/configuring-fonts-in-x.html)? If X supports them then so would dwm. I haven't tried because I think they look fuzzy and I can't see well anyway :lolflag:

finferflu
April 15th, 2008, 11:53 PM
No. Antialiasing is only for Xft fonts, which aren't the X core fonts. If you read carefully the link you have provided, you can see what I'm saying:


# Old font subsystems: This is the original (15-20 year old) subsystem. This is normally referred to as the "core X font subsystem", and the fonts are handled by the X server, which means no anti aliasing (i.e. no nice pretty and smooth fonts).

# New font subsystem: This new system is known as "fontconfig", and allows applications to render anti aliasing fonts on screen with the help of the "Xft" library.

wmii supports the old font subsystem only.

y-lee
April 16th, 2008, 12:29 AM
If you read carefully the link you have provided


Ah i did read it carefully. Anyway I use dwm and I haven't tried doing anything fancy with the fonts. Took me a while to figure out how to change my mouse cursor and the screen resolution. I choose dwm because it is only about 2000 lines of C code and I eventually want to understand the X windows system better. But i still think that if X windows supports something like anti aliasing fonts then I can make dwm also support it. I might have to modify the code of dwm to use Xft lib or I might not. That is the fun of dwm is getting to play with the code :) And I could be wrong I dunno. Ask me a year from now after I understand the inner details of X better. :lolflag:

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 03:01 AM
Bland perhaps is more accurate. I dunno, of the dozens of screenshots I've seen, they all look like Broderick's ready to start hacking in War Games. Of course the apps are the same, but most SS's I see it's like 37 terminals, it just looks terrible.

the screenshots of tiling managers tend to be more intent on showing the tiling capability (something not all that common) rather than the potential for eye candy (i really doubt loke would have switched to awesome unless there were a potential to make it look slick).

LaRoza
April 16th, 2008, 03:09 AM
the screenshots of tiling managers tend to be more intent on showing the tiling capability (something not all that common) rather than the potential for eye candy (i really doubt loke would have switched to awesome unless there were a potential to make it look slick).

Yes. Most Compiz screenshots show it in some sort of cube zoomed out, although one doesn't use it that way. (The cube turning is only used for moving, and is a rather rare event)

Compiz is aimed a effects, and its screenshots show this. wmii has a different aim, and its screenshots show this although it isn't the limit of it.

herbster
April 16th, 2008, 03:11 AM
Of course, that's the point of it. You asked why everyone isn't using one, I'm answering for me. After trying them (not just going into one session; I gave awesome almost two week of consistent usage) I just couldn't jive. And I don't really prefer tiling, as with flux I use tabs and have the same few windows always open at set places, set workspaces, etc. I suppose my current setup is so perfect for me that at this point awesome just isn't of any benefit.

Now that I think of it, I'm feeling since I love the Compiz scale plugin, for me it's great to have that available for all windows as a switcher for example, but I would not like to have my windows actually tiled in a similar manner with regular usage.

It's definitely awesome (haha! get it?? do ya? huh?) that people have the option available, though, I just love that there's all these crazy ways one can enjoy their system :D

LaRoza
April 16th, 2008, 03:19 AM
Of course, that's the point of it. You asked why everyone isn't using one, I'm answering for me. After trying them (not just going into one session; I gave awesome almost two week of consistent usage) I just couldn't jive. And I don't really prefer tiling, as with flux I use tabs and have the same few windows always open at set places, set workspaces, etc. I suppose my current setup is so perfect for me that at this point awesome just isn't of any benefit.

Now that I think of it, I'm feeling since I love the Compiz scale plugin, for me it's great to have that available for all windows as a switcher for example, but I would not like to have my windows actually tiled in a similar manner with regular usage.

It's definitely awesome (haha! get it?? do ya? huh?) that people have the option available, though, I just love that there's all these crazy ways one can enjoy their system :D

I love how many choices there are.

Mateo
April 16th, 2008, 03:23 AM
as a lover of tiling i think i can see both sides of them. First, I disagree that tiling windows managers are ugly. in fact, some of my favorite screenshots are from wmii is full action. there is beauty in its simplicity. sort of the way some people might see a painting, llke malevich's famous black square, and see the beauty in that.

with that being said, there are downsides to tiling WMs, which is why i don't use them all the time. certain types of applications don't work well in tiling mode, mplayer being one of them. and sometimes it becomes a hassle to go through the steps necessary to get an application loaded in a full window (super+enter to create a new terminal, then give it it's own tag. click on that tag. type in the application that you want (using & if a gui app), then type exit in the terminal.)

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 03:25 AM
And I don't really prefer tiling, as with flux I use tabs and have the same few windows always open at set places, set workspaces, etc. I suppose my current setup is so perfect for me that at this point awesome just isn't of any benefit.

oh, i forgot about flux-tabs. i thought they were too ugly the few times i did (oh, the irony). but, they get the spirit of tiling. it's actually managing the windows rather than just tossing them down anywhere (the last thing i want is for my laptop to look like my car).

finferflu
April 16th, 2008, 10:12 AM
Ok, I found my old dwm setup, dating back to August 2007. Now let's see what's so ugly :P

http://xs118.xs.to/xs118/07352/Desk.png.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs118&d=07352&f=Desk.png)

Source: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3269117&postcount=754

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 12:22 PM
ugly, indeed!

(awesome on the left, fluxbox on the right)

Gigamo
April 16th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Awesome support antialiased fonts.

finferflu
April 16th, 2008, 01:27 PM
ugly, indeed!

(awesome on the left, fluxbox on the right)
How dare you!!! :P
Anyway, the fluxbox desktop is somewhat psychedelic.


Awesome support antialiased fonts.
Too bad I like wmii more (apart from the mouse-only resizing of windows). I think dwm/awesome/Xmonad are too automated, I prefer the less automated and more intuitive way wmii handles the windows. Also, the highlighted windows are easily recognisable, whereas on the other ones I always struggled, no matter how big the border: I need a window title.

popch
April 16th, 2008, 01:30 PM
ugly, indeed!

(awesome on the left, fluxbox on the right)

Ah, I see that you are training to join the BackYa... - eh - Pink Ponies forum soon.

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Ah, I see that you are training to join the BackYa... - eh - Pink Ponies forum soon.

you meant pink peonies, i assume? i don't really know what that is. it looks like a dyed daisy. how about that? a backyard full of dyed daisies? hey, how about a veganbuntu, with releases like 'petulant petunia'and bristling broccolini?

Gigamo
April 16th, 2008, 02:10 PM
no matter how big the border: I need a window title.

Awesome has a window title. :)

finferflu
April 16th, 2008, 02:57 PM
It doesn't look like it from the screenshots, though... I never tried it myself, assuming it was just an "easier" dwm.

Gigamo
April 16th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Hehe. Awesome has way more features than DWM. Let's see if I have a pic with titlebars enabled somewhere :P

Ah here we go,

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 03:24 PM
It doesn't look like it from the screenshots, though... I never tried it myself, assuming it was just an "easier" dwm.

i found it to be a real pain in the asterisks to install, until i happened on shearn89's howto.

finferflu
April 16th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Hehe. Awesome has way more features than DWM. Let's see if I have a pic with titlebars enabled somewhere :P

Ah here we go,

That looks interesting, I might give it a try when I get some free time. Thanks for sharing :)


i found it to be a real pain in the asterisks to install, until i happened on shearn89's howto.
A pain in the asterisk because you use Ubuntu, I assume :P
Here on the dark side life is easier ;)

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 04:22 PM
A pain in the asterisk because you use Ubuntu, I assume :P
Here on the dark side life is easier ;)

oh, you smug arch user... i saw a post by mips saying that if you could understand the installation guide, you'd have no trouble. with renewed hope, i gave it a shot. i lasted about fifteen minutes before i had to realize i had no clue wtf they were talking about.

finferflu
April 16th, 2008, 04:30 PM
Did you follow the Beginners Guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide)?

herbster
April 16th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Damn chuck, you could be a smash at Fox News or some left-wing blog with that misleading flux screen :D

And with the defense to my comment of your window manager, I shudder to think what y'all would do if anyone said a thing about your keyboard or bedsheets :eek:

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 04:36 PM
Did you follow the Beginners Guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide)?

oh! i didn't even see that. i just read the installation guide to see if i would even understand it. i didn't really. thanks for the link.

Tomatz
April 16th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Damn chuck, you could be a smash at Fox News or some left-wing blog with that misleading flux screen :D

And with the defense to my comment of your window manager, I shudder to think what y'all would do if anyone said a thing about your keyboard or bedsheets :eek:

Fox left wing?


:confused::confused::confused:

herbster
April 16th, 2008, 04:40 PM
Fox left wing?


:confused::confused::confused:

Hehe, read it again, you misread.

finferflu
April 16th, 2008, 04:41 PM
oh! i didn't even see that. i just read the installation guide to see if i would even understand it. i didn't really. thanks for the link.
I don't think anyone uses the "official" manual to install Arch. Even the devs are considering to include the beginners guide in the core ISO.

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Damn chuck, you could be a smash at Fox News or some left-wing blog with that misleading flux screen

neither shot is misleading. both are very possible (in fact, that's the default hideous window decoration of fluxbox. blame xterm for the rest). the comments about tiling wm's being ugly are absurd as there is practically nothing visual about them other than a status/toolbar that can be toggled hidden. in addition to the same window management most other wm's offer, they offer the additional option of tiling (though, they tile by default).as we've seen in so many of the screenshot threads, almost all of the DE/wm's can be made to look very different in each user's hand. so, i really don't accept appearance as a reason to not use a tiling manager. missing options is a far better reason not to use one.

fwojciec
April 16th, 2008, 06:01 PM
the comments about tiling wm's being ugly are absurd as there is practically nothing visual about them other than a status/toolbar that can be toggled hidden.

That is, I imagine, what is described as "ugly" -- the unbearable, unforgivable *lack* of pretty embellishments... And the fact that pretty wallpapers barely show (or not at all) from underneath all the text.

LaRoza
April 16th, 2008, 06:10 PM
That is, I imagine, what is described as "ugly" -- the unbearable, unforgivable *lack* of pretty embellishments... And the fact that pretty wallpapers barely show (or not at all) from underneath all the text.

I'd rather see what I am doing rather than something I am not using.

herbster
April 16th, 2008, 06:18 PM
Can't say anything that hasn't been said, have clarified myself already. And your SS is misleading, come on chuckster. Four nasty-lookin' terms vs a pretty wall? Hehe. I get the point you're trying to make with it, though.

Hey I might give the doggone thing another go with this vehement defense here.

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 06:52 PM
That is, I imagine, what is described as "ugly" -- the unbearable, unforgivable *lack* of pretty embellishments... And the fact that pretty wallpapers barely show (or not at all) from underneath all the text.

waiter: here's your steak, sir.

fwojciec: what? no parsley???

i'd dispute your 'lack of embellishments' argument as unreasonable, but i'm not immune to being unreasonable myself (i see it as a good quality, in some ways). i do argue the 'not seeing the wallpaper' point, though. not only do you have the option to see pretty wallpapers, you also have the option to see newly opened applications.


Hey I might give the doggone thing another go with this vehement defense here.

there's a good fella! you can always dump it again, but i have a feeling you're gonna get hooked this time.

:guitar:

fwojciec
April 16th, 2008, 07:10 PM
i'd dispute your 'lack of embellishments' argument as unreasonable

Just to clarify -- I don't actually think tillers are ugly myself... It was just my attempt to see things from a Compiz-junkie (i.e. "wobbly > tilley") perspective...

billgoldberg
April 16th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Why I don't use a tiling windows manager?

They look ugly.

I love compiz fusion and use it all the time.

chucky chuckaluck
April 16th, 2008, 07:24 PM
Just to clarify -- I don't actually think tillers are ugly myself... It was just my attempt to see things from a Compiz-junkie (i.e. "wobbly > tilley") perspective...

^ i see what you mean.

finferflu
April 16th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Damn you, Compiz! errr.. sorry I got carried away :P

popch
April 16th, 2008, 08:27 PM
you meant pink peonies, i assume? i don't really know what that is. it looks like a dyed daisy. how about that? a backyard full of dyed daisies? hey, how about a veganbuntu, with releases like 'petulant petunia'and bristling broccolini?

(coming up for air) - thank you, you've just made my day.

Actually, I was referring to the other screenshot with the - er - color contrasts.

BTW, some of the daisies in my garden are partly pink or at least reddish. And it's the white leaves surrounding the small flowers which are pinkish or reddish at the base, not the small flowers on the inside.

Balazs_noob
April 18th, 2008, 09:25 PM
using wmii right now and i like it :)
i just need to find a way to adjust column width without the mouse
:popcorn:

LaRoza
April 18th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Just went into a GNOME system for a couple of seconds. I was lost! I couldn't open or close anything and everything was thrown on the screen like a bucket of mud.

finferflu
April 18th, 2008, 09:41 PM
That was exactly my feeling when I tried to go back to old fashioned WMs, after a long time spent on tiling WMs. It took quite some time for me to get the hang of them again.
Anyway, I'm back to the tiling world again, full time, thanks to this thread :D

finferflu
April 18th, 2008, 09:43 PM
using wmii right now and i like it :)
i just need to find a way to adjust column width without the mouse
:popcorn:
Sorry for double-posting, but it's just more practical at this stage for me :P

Anyway, there's no way to do that, and that's what kept me away from wmii for a loooong time. Then I realised I'm not spending that much time in resizing my windows anyway. So the loss is smaller than the gain. I still believe that feature should (and MUST) be implemented, though.

mali2297
April 18th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Sorry for double-posting, but it's just more practical at this stage for me :P

Anyway, there's no way to do that, and that's what kept me away from wmii for a loooong time. Then I realised I'm not spending that much time in resizing my windows anyway. So the loss is smaller than the gain. I still believe that feature should (and MUST) be implemented, though.

As Gigamo would say:

Awesome has this feature.

finferflu
April 18th, 2008, 10:03 PM
As Gigamo would say:

Awesome has this feature.
And I would say: wmii is not Awesome (wNA).
I have my reasons to choose wmii over Awesome, so far. The fact I haven't tried it yet, is the major reason why I'm not definitive on it :D
But knowing is a dwm fork I can understand how it feels like.

Jokes apart, the reason why I use wmii now is that it has good defaults for my purposes, however I don't like the dwm-like defaults, but I don't have time to fiddle with config files right now.

chucky chuckaluck
April 18th, 2008, 10:14 PM
Just went into a GNOME system for a couple of seconds. I was lost! I couldn't open or close anything and everything was thrown on the screen like a bucket of mud.

i realize this is probably an obnoxious thing to say, but starting every app in the middle of the screen, or where it left off last time, or some mystery plan, isn't anything i'd call 'management'. perhaps 'window host' would be a better term. (of course, window management is just one aspectof it all.)

LaRoza
April 18th, 2008, 10:21 PM
i realize this is probably an obnoxious thing to say, but starting every app in the middle of the screen, or where it left off last time, or some mystery plan, isn't anything i'd call 'management'. perhaps 'window host' would be a better term. (of course, window management is just one aspectof it all.)

Now that I use wmii, I find any other form of "window management" to be sub par.

corney91
April 18th, 2008, 11:07 PM
I'm wmii-loving atm - moved from AwesomeWM. I prefer wmii's default setup (keybindings etc.) but I'm finding it harder to personalise. I haven't got into it alot, but AwesomeWM's rc file seemed simpler.
Has anyone found (or could write ;-)) a good guide for the config.

EDIT: I got this (http://chicken.wiki.br/wmiirc) but it's kinda confusing...

DjBones
April 18th, 2008, 11:23 PM
eh, in my opinion tilers just aren't quite as efficient as using a framebuffer console,
or with a bit of practice a binary abacus for that matter :wink:

finferflu
April 19th, 2008, 06:36 PM
eh, in my opinion tilers just aren't quite as efficient as using a framebuffer console,
or with a bit of practice a binary abacus for that matter :wink:
Nah, your irony doesn't fit here. So if something is not flashy, wobbly and you can't draw with fire on top of the screen, then it must be old? Eyecandy will eventually hit the tiling WM world (Awesome seems the one heading towards that direction), but so far people are just discovering and exploring this *new* approach. It's something new, alright?
If there's something old it's the WIMP interface, which has been there for some 20 years, if not more.

mali2297
April 19th, 2008, 08:09 PM
eh, in my opinion tilers just aren't quite as efficient as using a framebuffer console,
or with a bit of practice a binary abacus for that matter :wink:

You can run a tiling window manager in a framebuffer console as well, check out dvtm (http://www.brain-dump.org/projects/dvtm/).

Gigamo
April 19th, 2008, 09:11 PM
I wouldn't consider awesome a "fork" of DWM. Not anymore at least. It has by far surpassed dwm in features. DWM is too simplistic, imo :)

I have yet to give wmii a serious try though, the initial impressions were nice, but I don't like WM's that take alot to configure.

red_Marvin
April 19th, 2008, 10:46 PM
The first awesome version I've tried had text to show which layout the current tag had ("[]=" "><>" etc.) but the one I use now uses images.
Is there an option for the awesomerc to make it use text? I haven't found any.

Onyros
April 20th, 2008, 01:11 AM
Unfortunately, nope, Marvin. It's quite a statement they've (Julien, the developer, mostly) made. If you can't use GIMP to change those, "you're not worthy". Just kidding. (or am I?)

I use Awesome, but I'm not too happy as a user with the way they're heading to, so I suppose I MAY be reverting to wmii or dwm sooner than later. Most of the things that have been implemented lately I don't care much for, really, so I do understand finferflu's position regarding this.

In my view, Awesome's what you make of it. Its biggest advantage is a great dot file, very practical in terms of configuration and a few features it has. So, unless its code does change radically, I'll keep on using it. I acknowledge dwm (as a comparison) has been almost impenetrable in terms of new ideas, but Awesome has been trying to incorporate too many, too fast. I'd rather have good, solid code, instead of new features in each release.

fwojciec
April 20th, 2008, 01:31 AM
Unfortunately, nope, Marvin. It's quite a statement they've (Julien, the developer, mostly) made. If you can't use GIMP to change those, "you're not worthy". Just kidding. (or am I?)

I use Awesome, but I'm not too happy as a user with the way they're heading to, so I suppose I MAY be reverting to wmii or dwm sooner than later. Most of the things that have been implemented lately I don't care much for, really, so I do understand finferflu's position regarding this.

In my view, Awesome's what you make of it. Its biggest advantage is a great dot file, very practical in terms of configuration and a few features it has. So, unless its code does change radically, I'll keep on using it. I acknowledge dwm (as a comparison) has been almost impenetrable in terms of new ideas, but Awesome has been trying to incorporate too many, too fast. I'd rather have good, solid code, instead of new features in each release.

The moment Awesome started to force these silly icons down my throat I stopped using it. I liked it when it was minimal and functional, I think I even remember having a conversation about it with you a while back -- but at some stage Awesome started getting a bit too, hmm, baroque for my tastes. I'm currently back to Openbox and I like it, so I'll probably stay a while, but if I were to use a tilling WM in the future (when I, for example, get a higher resolution screen) I'd probably go for dwm.

red_Marvin
April 20th, 2008, 01:42 AM
Well I did change the icons with gimp (and inkscape) so I guess I'm worthy then heh, but it's a little annoying, I had to take great care to use the right image size so the images would not be scaled and blurred.

Saint Angeles
April 20th, 2008, 01:44 AM
...because i discovered the gtk theme "SlickNess Black" and i can never change it now.

finferflu
April 20th, 2008, 08:06 AM
The moment Awesome started to force these silly icons down my throat I stopped using it. I liked it when it was minimal and functional, I think I even remember having a conversation about it with you a while back -- but at some stage Awesome started getting a bit too, hmm, baroque for my tastes. I'm currently back to Openbox and I like it, so I'll probably stay a while, but if I were to use a tilling WM in the future (when I, for example, get a higher resolution screen) I'd probably go for dwm.
In my opinion, Awesome is a good thing. I mean, it's just a step in a direction other WMs haven't considered yet. I like eyecandy, because I think it can improve usability. Look & feel matters. So, I think Awesome is a kind of revolution in the world of tiling and minimal WMs, since most of them seem to hate anything that has to do with the word "desktop". Ratpoison, for example, is called the anti-desktop. I believe it's good to take the good features from things we don't like. So, an easy config file is good. A good set of features to pick and choose, and some eyecandy (graphics card acceleration would be good, too), we have computers able to handle some more expensive processes, so I don't think we should be afraid of using our RAM and CPU.

Gigamo
April 20th, 2008, 12:24 PM
Some more awesome beauty...

Sometimes I wish I had a bigger monitor :)

fwojciec
April 20th, 2008, 01:40 PM
In my opinion, Awesome is a good thing. I mean, it's just a step in a direction other WMs haven't considered yet. I like eyecandy, because I think it can improve usability. Look & feel matters. So, I think Awesome is a kind of revolution in the world of tiling and minimal WMs, since most of them seem to hate anything that has to do with the word "desktop". Ratpoison, for example, is called the anti-desktop. I believe it's good to take the good features from things we don't like. So, an easy config file is good. A good set of features to pick and choose, and some eyecandy (graphics card acceleration would be good, too), we have computers able to handle some more expensive processes, so I don't think we should be afraid of using our RAM and CPU.

I'm sure you're right, and obviously there are people who love Awesome :) It's shaping up as a kind of KDE of the tilling world. It's just not for me, I suppose.

chucky chuckaluck
April 20th, 2008, 01:56 PM
...because i discovered the gtk theme "SlickNess Black" and i can never change it now.

gtk themes show up in tiling wm's, son, just as they show up in fluxbox and openbox and icewm and e17 and whatever else you want to use.

DahVid
April 20th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Because Java Swing/AWT applications don't work (well|at all) in them.

theDaveTheRave
April 20th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Heyall.

I'm not sure what the advantage is?

I did use (and still have access to) Compuz / Ruby, The cube setup is really cool and a great way of showing what a pc can do with Linux compared to XP or Vista.

I demonstrated running 2 films at the same time in XP / Vista and the sound and vision goes AWOL. Compared to the same stuff showing on Linux. Then add the clever cube stuff and people are really stunned. This is when I first got my new system and was running the "basic" setup with a Tiple boot into XP/Vista/Fiesty.

But please tell me, how is a tiling manager different from using any window manager?? I use Gnome with 4 virtual desktops and skip between with the keyboard.

I can understand how if you have a MASSIVE screen (which I don't) then getting stuff to tile automagicaly could be helpfull, but why not just have extra virtual desktops if that is an issue?

Also if I am going to try one, can I turn it on and off at (like I do with Compiz)?

I look forward to your comments.

Dave

red_Marvin
April 20th, 2008, 05:45 PM
@theDaveTheRave:
The point of using tiling wm's is to maximize screen usage, say that you launch your first app - it will be instantly maximized, launch another one and the screen space will be split between them according to some rule that you can change, but the screen will still be fully covered by the windows -automatically.

There seems to be some questions/views like "My screen is to small for tiling to be of any use", "That many apps on the same desktop will make the screen cluttered" and "What about apps that I want to have a specific size/move around?"

The answers to those are more or less that just because it is a tililng window manager it doesn't mean that you can't use multiple virtual desktops, and there is also often the possibility to make a window "floating", that is like a "normal" window. As an example, I have set up gimp, with it's many dialog windows, to use this mode by default.

On top of that, window managers like awesome (and dwm?) has a "maximized" layout option making the active window maximized and hiding the others, which you can bring forward with alt+tab or what have you, just like usual.

The point where tiling wm's might be lacking, is eye-candy, you won't have awesome+compiz-fusion, at least not yet (but xcompmgr works), but after all tiling is about the content of the windows more than anything else.

theDaveTheRave
April 20th, 2008, 06:42 PM
red_marvin.

Thanks for that extra info.

One last question, can I get the system to tile only only specified virtual desktops?

Thinking about it that may in fact be a silly question.... but as yet I'm not sure.... I'm still thinking about it! :confused:

Dave

LaRoza
April 20th, 2008, 06:47 PM
red_marvin.

Thanks for that extra info.

One last question, can I get the system to tile only only specified virtual desktops?

Thinking about it that may in fact be a silly question.... but as yet I'm not sure.... I'm still thinking about it! :confused:

Dave

There are no virtual desktops (at least, not in wmii). There are tags.

finferflu
April 20th, 2008, 07:00 PM
I'm sure you're right, and obviously there are people who love Awesome :) It's shaping up as a kind of KDE of the tilling world. It's just not for me, I suppose.

Yeah, I wasn't saying that the rest of tiling WMs are crap. Surely variety is all good :D

@ theDaveTheRave
As LaRoza pointed out, there are not workspaces, but tags. You can use the tags to work like workspace, but they can do a little more. For example you have a tag called "web" and another called "files". Now suppose you want to use Pidgin side by side with Firefox and also with your file manager, to drag & drop files in it, you could assign the tag "web" to Firefox, the tag "files" to your file manager, and the tags "web" and "files" to Pidgin, so you will have different "workspaces" where Pidgin appears. The benefit is obvious when you have more than 2 tags. In the classical WIMP interface, or at least in Gnome you can display a window either in all workspaces (sticky mode), or in none.

red_Marvin
April 20th, 2008, 07:44 PM
red_marvin.

Thanks for that extra info.

One last question, can I get the system to tile only only specified virtual desktops?

Thinking about it that may in fact be a silly question.... but as yet I'm not sure.... I'm still thinking about it! :confused:

Dave

In awesome (which is what I'm using) you can set any tag (virtual desktop-like) to use a special tiling layout (or float mode), both dynamically during use, and what to use as default when starting it.


There are no virtual desktops (at least, not in wmii). There are tags.
Well, in awesome they are also called tags, but I tend to use them as virtual desktops (and call them that), and I think that some confusion about the clutter issues described in my last post may come from that people don't know what tags are and how they can give the same functionality as virtual desktops (and then some, even if I don't use it for more).

Saint Angeles
April 20th, 2008, 07:48 PM
gtk themes show up in tiling wm's, son, just as they show up in fluxbox and openbox and icewm and e17 and whatever else you want to use.
sorry... cant change it...


LALALALALALA (fingers in ears)

theDaveTheRave
April 20th, 2008, 08:21 PM
guys.

So it sounds like and looks and feels like a virtual desktop (my favourite thing about the Linux GUI), but with additional "sticky but not sticky" type functionality :cool:

Sounds potentially confusing.... I'm not sure how it would tile 3 windows at a time - I'm sure it would agravate me and tile them in a fashion that I don't want, or need my input to change it every time I wanted something slightly different from a tag (but then I do that now with virtual desktops!).

Does it support things like partial transparency of windows etc (like I can do in Compiz), I assume I can scroll up and down one window without necessarily selecting it (like I often do now when making notes on another document.

I guess that it can support external monitors also?

Thinking along that line what would be cool is.... multiple monitors (or one VERY LARGE projected screen) with all your windows open and viewable (as by the tagging system). Then having the window that is "in focus" appear on its own on your personal "small" laptop screen. That may even make me acquire an external projector for my laptop!

Then again maybe I'll wait for the "funny glasses" with "eye tracking" and "head up display" type screen that can be as large as you want..... I'll definately be in the queue for one of those.

Dave

chucky chuckaluck
April 20th, 2008, 08:48 PM
Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.


edit: so much for getting the hang of a text browser. "what an ultra maroon!" - bugs bunny

popch
April 20th, 2008, 08:49 PM
Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.
If you say so. I don't have anything to reply, though.

chucky chuckaluck
April 20th, 2008, 08:55 PM
sorry... cant change it...


LALALALALALA (fingers in ears)

you don't have to change it. gtk themes are not glued to one DE/wm. you can use the same gtk in any number of window managers, including tiling window managers.

Onyros
April 21st, 2008, 02:46 PM
I tried a crazy mix of Awesome and LXPanel. Two lightweight worlds collided... but still managed to coexist.

LXPanel's plugin even detected the tags as "virtual desktops".

I kinda like LXPanel, but hate the fact that one can't easily change the menu. (or can we? I suppose it picks up .desktop files and then crowds the entries, but I may be wrong, I didn't delve too much into that)

That mix would actually be usable for some people, so I'd recommend it in very specific situations. I'll keep on using my good ol' gmrun and/or wbar when I'm lazy.

Chipter
April 21st, 2008, 04:22 PM
I tried Awesome once, too confusing.
don't think I set it up properly. I didn't know what I was doing with it.

I've gotten the hang of gnome, and I like it fine.

chucky chuckaluck
April 21st, 2008, 04:45 PM
I tried Awesome once, too confusing.
don't think I set it up properly. I didn't know what I was doing with it.

I've gotten the hang of gnome, and I like it fine.

if you ever want to try it again, shearn89's howto is mighty solid - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=675292


edit: whoa! awesome has scrollable workspaces? i mean tags? whatever? i had no idea.

chucky chuckaluck
April 25th, 2008, 05:02 AM
well, that was annoying. bye, kde. thanks for the visit. it was all because of some stupid little sign in my wallpaper reminding me of the kmenu icon in the 'breathless' icon set. back to xmonad.

wvmac
April 26th, 2008, 03:22 AM
Well I was using IceWM until a previous poster "LaRoza" and their blog convinced me to try wmii. I tried it (it is nice) and I also tried other tiling window managers. Awesome window manager stuck out the most to me, so I kept using it. After a week or so of use (I know that isn't very long to evaluate something) I find that it has changed the way I use my desktop. I really enjoy it. My wife is totally lost but that's ok since she has her own laptop.
I tried using Gnome afterwards and now it (gnome) just feels awkward to use.
I don't even use that many terminal apps:
rtorrent, sometimes elinks, switched to Finch, bitchx, htop, and now xterm.
but I am definitely a convert now.
thanks to everyone that recommended a tiling window manager.

I still intend to try xmonad.

Saint Angeles
May 2nd, 2008, 06:15 AM
ok so i just compiled the latest version of compiz using git and... holy crap! theres a new tile plugin that works beautifully. you can even use some transition effects when you tile the windows (or none at all if you dont like effects)...

heres my nerdy screenshot.

chucky chuckaluck
May 2nd, 2008, 08:51 AM
My wife is totally lost but that's ok since she has her own laptop.

our old pc finally threw a shoe and mrs. chuckaluck's laptop is about to join it (windows2000), so she's been using my laptop for her infrequent browsing. she has no clue about tiling wm's, so after she's been using it, my desktop looks like a five yr. old's been at it (usually with two or three xterms open, all saying firefox and half a firefox looking like it too is about to fall off the screen).



ok so i just compiled the latest version of compiz using git and... holy crap! theres a new tile plugin that works beautifully. you can even use some transition effects when you tile the windows (or none at all if you dont like effects)...

heres my nerdy screenshot.

yikes! it looks like a pornstar wearing horn-rimmed glasses in an attempt to appear more 'bookish'. but seriously, while i think including a tiling feature (doesn't have to be the default) is a must option, with all those window decorations and panels taking up so much room, it kind of defeats the point of tiling with regard to maximizing the screen's usage (see attached pic). is there a one step option to turn all that stuff off when going into a tiling scheme?

Saint Angeles
May 2nd, 2008, 09:39 AM
our old pc finally threw a shoe and mrs. chuckaluck's laptop is about to join it (windows2000), so she's been using my laptop for her infrequent browsing. she has no clue about tiling wm's, so after she's been using it, my desktop looks like a five yr. old's been at it (usually with two or three xterms open, all saying firefox and half a firefox looking like it too is about to fall off the screen).




yikes! it looks like a pornstar wearing horn-rimmed glasses in an attempt to appear more 'bookish'. but seriously, while i think including a tiling feature (doesn't have to be the default) is a must option, with all those window decorations and panels taking up so much room, it kind of defeats the point of tiling with regard to maximizing the screen's usage (see attached pic). is there a one step option to turn all that stuff off when going into a tiling scheme?
i dont see that kind of option... not yet anyways... but i dont see the point in making it as ugly as possible. cant you have tile AND make it look nice?

chucky chuckaluck
May 2nd, 2008, 02:36 PM
i dont see that kind of option... not yet anyways... but i dont see the point in making it as ugly as possible. cant you have tile AND make it look nice?

i know that one can use xmonad (the tiling wm i use) in gnome, kde and xfce, but as xmonad is a wm, that would exclude the usage of compiz most likely. if compiz can do tiling now, it might be more streamlined in future development.

brunovecchi
May 12th, 2008, 01:35 AM
ok so i just compiled the latest version of compiz using git and... holy crap! theres a new tile plugin that works beautifully. you can even use some transition effects when you tile the windows (or none at all if you dont like effects)...


I suppose that the main difference is that with tilling wms the tiling is automatic, while with the compiz plugin (correct me if I'm wrong please) you have to explicitly tell the manager to tile your windows at that particular instance. If you, for example, open a new application in that desktop, you have to manually re-tile, which is less than optimal.

I'm giving awesome a go now, and I think that unless I find a serious compatibility issue with some must-have application, I might have switched forever. A few screenshots don't do it justice, you have to try it yourself and take in consideration that it will take some time to get used to it and get productive with it.

freduardo
May 20th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Bump.

Being mostly a Gnome or Openbox user (with a preference for the latter lately), I just installed wmii for the first time.
It takes a little time to get used to, obviously, but I'm starting to like it.

I'm not promising anything, but from what I've seen so far, I think I'll give this "tiling stuff" an extended run.

emmerp
May 27th, 2008, 10:57 PM
I like tiling window managers a lot, am using dwm (4.8 and further) for a couple of months now. The only problem I have is with Java/AWT/Swing programs. For example, with running Eclipse, the 'Open Resource' dialog window (Ctrl-Shift-R) gets maximized, while I just want it to be floating, as the Eclipse Find dialog is. I just tried ion, awesome, wmii, different versions of dwm, but they all have the same problem. It does not matter which layout mode I'm in (tiled, monocle, etc..)
I know java programs are a known issue, but has anyone a solution for this?

cardinals_fan
May 27th, 2008, 11:08 PM
I like tiling window managers a lot, am using dwm (4.8 and further) for a couple of months now. The only problem I have is with Java/AWT/Swing programs. For example, with running Eclipse, the 'Open Resource' dialog window (Ctrl-Shift-R) gets maximized, while I just want it to be floating, as the Eclipse Find dialog is. I just tried ion, awesome, wmii, different versions of dwm, but they all have the same problem. It does not matter which layout mode I'm in (tiled, monocle, etc..)
I know java programs are a known issue, but has anyone a solution for this?
You could set the programs that you know have this issue to float by default. Not a perfect solution, but it'll do in a pinch.

emmerp
May 28th, 2008, 06:04 AM
I forgot to say, putting them to float does not help...Oh wait, at least in dwm 4.8 it does seem to help.
By the way, I don't get the fact that I start it floating, but when I open another window, it gets tiled anyway, but this seems to work for me :)

emmerp
May 28th, 2008, 07:26 AM
It even gets weirder... on another laptop with dwm 4.8, the problem isn't solved...still this huge maximized dialog window...

chucky chuckaluck
May 28th, 2008, 08:20 AM
if you can find out how the dialog window is called, you could probably set that to float, specifically, in the config file. in xmonad, it might be something like

myManageHook = composeAll
[ className =? "pathtostupidlittledialogwindow" --> doFloat


if you haven't tried xmonad, yet, you might want to. like awesome, it's a dwm offshoot. it takes a little while to get used to editing the haskell config files, but i like it a lot (changes are implemented simply by doing mod+q, without the need to restart x.


---------------------------------------------


i recently went on an 'install everything in sight' binge. while using kdemod, i found it necessary to start opening a bunch of apps (i was working on a theme that required gcolor2, the wallpaper i was matching the theme to, kwrite, konq, etc.) and it just got to be such a huge pile, i just purged all the junk and am back with xmonad and dwm. once you get used to and like tiling, it's so hard to go back.

emmerp
May 28th, 2008, 08:38 AM
Yeah tried that too, but or it just doesn't work, or I don't get the syntax of dwm tagging right :).

chucky chuckaluck
May 28th, 2008, 09:03 AM
i was just looking at how xmonad treats the preferences window of firefox. even in float mode, it appears maximized, so same problem there. if i recall correctly, though, in awesome wm's float mode, once you switch to float mode, even open windows become demaximized (down to about 80x40 to 100x45 is my guess). if you've not tried awesome, it's another wm based on dwm.

emmerp
May 28th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Shame on me....:S Turns out the window I thougth dwm was maximizing was just that big because I resized it once... found this out when in gnome it was the same size ](*,)

emmerp
May 28th, 2008, 10:35 PM
Here I am again... still some problem with those dialog windows, once they were just floating and small (like you would expect from a dialog window) but after that big again...can't find out what's happening yet...
Besides that, during fiddling with different tiling window managers, I noticed that my default gnome is much faster/more responsive than dwm or awesome. For example, starting nautilus --no-desktop takes 5 seconds in dwm, and 1 in gnome. I know maybe dwm has to load gnome libs first, but this slowness also happens the subsequent times I start apps. Anyone an idea what's going on?

For now I will revert to gnome, and try compiz' tiling features I just read about...

Cowloon
November 1st, 2008, 04:22 AM
I'm experimenting with wmii. I like how when I search for wmii on ask.com the sponsored ad is for rat poison.

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 11:59 AM
Here I am again... still some problem with those dialog windows, once they were just floating and small (like you would expect from a dialog window) but after that big again...can't find out what's happening yet...
Besides that, during fiddling with different tiling window managers, I noticed that my default gnome is much faster/more responsive than dwm or awesome. For example, starting nautilus --no-desktop takes 5 seconds in dwm, and 1 in gnome. I know maybe dwm has to load gnome libs first, but this slowness also happens the subsequent times I start apps. Anyone an idea what's going on?

For now I will revert to gnome, and try compiz' tiling features I just read about...

nautilus runs your desktop in gnome, so it's already open when you think you're opening it. it's kind of like explorer in that regard.



I'm experimenting with wmii. I like how when I search for wmii on ask.com the sponsored ad is for rat poison.

searching for dwm often includes windows' desktop window manager in the results, so i have to narrow it down with something like "dwm +linux". even worse is trying to do a search for "awesome window manager". it seems to turn up more results along the lines of "dude, fluxbox is an awesome window manager" rather than stuff about the window manager actually named 'awesome'.

billgoldberg
November 1st, 2008, 12:05 PM
i've been using tiling wm's for a couple of months now (mostly wmii), so i'm fully adjusted to them. last week sometime, i reinstalled fluxbox, but dumped it pretty soon as i just couldn't go back to it. if you're not familiar with tiling window managment, here's a little something on it - PathToGlory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager)
using one of these feels like real managment rather than the "did you get that thing i just tossed on your desk?" approach.

note: i realize this could boil over into a massive flame war (assuming it doesn't end up in an 'unanswered posts' search), so let's keep it civil.

Because I'm perfectly happy using the "normal" way of using the desktop space.

I have no need to use a tiling manager.

The scale plugin gives me an overview if needed and I use mutliple desktops so I don't feel the need to use one.

I will give it a shot in a while, when I feel up to it just to see what I'm missing out on.

Who knows, I might surprise myself and like it more.

billgoldberg
November 1st, 2008, 12:06 PM
nautilus runs your desktop in gnome, so it's already open when you think you're opening it. it's kind of like explorer in that regard.


It does by default, but unlike explorer (I think) you can easily disable that in gconf editor.

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 12:13 PM
It does by default, but unlike explorer (I think) you can easily disable that in gconf editor.

right, once you find it in gconf editor. i don't think there's anyway to shut explorer off.

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 12:16 PM
I will give it a shot in a while, when I feel up to it just to see what I'm missing out on.

Who knows, I might surprise myself and like it more.

it might take several shots (it did me). they can be annoying as asterisks when you first try them. but, like most things that seem incredibly odd when you first try them, that difference indicates the potential it has for changing the way you do things, for the better.

graabein
November 1st, 2008, 01:29 PM
I've seen my friend use Ion and the idea is growing on me. Tried one or two the other day but didn't bother reading up on the config files and shortcuts, but I did map out some applications on different workspaces in Gnome. Maybe devilspie will be the first step?

techmarks
November 1st, 2008, 01:32 PM
ok I just downloaded wmii I'm gonna give it a try

LaRoza
November 1st, 2008, 01:39 PM
Because I'm perfectly happy using the "normal" way of using the desktop space.


The normal way of using the desktop is with a tiling window manager. You must have different norms.

brunovecchi
November 1st, 2008, 01:48 PM
The normal way of using the desktop is with a tiling window manager. You must have different norms.

No, it's not and you know it.

sertse
November 1st, 2008, 02:10 PM
Tiling means I have to trade off screen space between apps.

I don't mind overlapping. I set desired apps to always on top and tinker with my opacities for when its focused/unfocused so its no problem for me. A bit of effort to get it just right, but then you're set.

This means I have the complete screen space to use for apps where its desirable to do so, *and* can have other apps on screen at the same time.

Of course this is dependent on the apps you use, but the ones I use mainly, this is a is a better solution than tiling for me

billgoldberg
November 1st, 2008, 03:45 PM
The normal way of using the desktop is with a tiling window manager. You must have different norms.

lol

I guess I have, but not many people have such high standards as you.

nick09
November 1st, 2008, 05:40 PM
Well for me its "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd rather have windows overlap so I can work on the terminal while browsing the web because I have a 14" screen at a 1024x768 resolution. Which is quite small and I'd rather not have horizontal scroll bars while surfing the net.

cardinals_fan
November 1st, 2008, 05:55 PM
I have no need to use a tiling manager.

The scale plugin gives me an overview if needed and I use mutliple desktops so I don't feel the need to use one.

This is actually why I do use a tiling WM. If I open an app on a given workspace, I expect to see it on that workspace. I don't worry about crushing my windows with tiling because I never have more than two windows on one workspace.

The normal way of using the desktop is with a tiling window manager. You must have different norms.

No, it's not and you know it.
Any reason people can't have different norms?

RiceMonster
November 1st, 2008, 06:05 PM
Well for me its "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd rather have windows overlap so I can work on the terminal while browsing the web because I have a 14" screen at a 1024x768 resolution. Which is quite small and I'd rather not have horizontal scroll bars while surfing the net.

Yep me too. Sometimes I like tiling, such as when I want to edit two files at once (I can do that in vim) or maybe I want to read a man page while I'm doing something else in the CLI (dvtm takes care of that), other than that, I don't want anything else to tile. It drives me nuts when I open a new window and it resizes the one I have open.

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 06:05 PM
Well for me its "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd rather have windows overlap so I can work on the terminal while browsing the web because I have a 14" screen at a 1024x768 resolution. Which is quite small and I'd rather not have horizontal scroll bars while surfing the net.

http://d.imagehost.org/t/0750/LOL.jpg (http://d.imagehost.org/view/0750/LOL.jpg)

in dwm, xmonad, awesome and wmii, at least, there is always the option to 'float' the apps rather than tiling them. there's also the option to max out one of the apps and alt+j through all the apps open in that workspace. the advantage of tiling is to avoid overlapping, which i guess is only an advantage to people not using real transparency to read one app through another, granted, a shrinking minority for sure.

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 06:15 PM
i just posted this comment in the screenshots thread about pekwm...

"especially for its ability to expand a window horizontally or vertically as an alternative option to maximizing. it might be a happy medium between traditional window managment and tiling window managment."

of course, one can also maximize a window in pekwm. this might be a good solution for those of you who might want some of the advantages of tiling without succumbing to tiling's perceived tyranny.

cardinals_fan
November 1st, 2008, 06:16 PM
the advantage of tiling is to avoid overlapping, which i guess is only an advantage to people not using real transparency to read one app through another, granted, a shrinking minority for sure.
In my opinion, the real advantage of tiling is the total keyboard control and the lack of titlebars. Fullscreen apps for the win!

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 06:20 PM
In my opinion, the real advantage of tiling is the total keyboard control and the lack of titlebars. Fullscreen apps for the win!

that's just because you can type.

lukjad
November 1st, 2008, 06:20 PM
i've been using tiling wm's for a couple of months now (mostly wmii), so i'm fully adjusted to them. last week sometime, i reinstalled fluxbox, but dumped it pretty soon as i just couldn't go back to it. if you're not familiar with tiling window managment, here's a little something on it - PathToGlory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager)
using one of these feels like real managment rather than the "did you get that thing i just tossed on your desk?" approach.

note: i realize this could boil over into a massive flame war (assuming it doesn't end up in an 'unanswered posts' search), so let's keep it civil.
Because my PC is old, and, like me, doesn't multitask well. ;)

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 06:24 PM
Because my PC is old, and, like me, doesn't multitask well. ;)

it might were you to use dwm (super light) and terminal apps. i think tiling is best when using terminal apps.

cardinals_fan
November 1st, 2008, 06:25 PM
it might were you to use dwm (super light) and terminal apps. i think tiling is best when using terminal apps.
Ratpoison is the best WM for terminal apps, in my opinion.

Pekwm is very good.

brunovecchi
November 1st, 2008, 06:32 PM
Any reason people can't have different norms?

No, not at all. I addressed her apparent misunderstanding of what he meant by "normal", as in "what's most common". You can have different norms, but you can't define what's most common. And he meant the latter.

lukjad
November 1st, 2008, 06:33 PM
You guys are tempting me. I'll have to try it one of these days.

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 06:34 PM
Ratpoison is the best WM for terminal apps, in my opinion.

Pekwm is very good.

i never liked ratpoison. i guess i never could keep track of all the stuff i had open.

cardinals_fan
November 1st, 2008, 06:47 PM
i never liked ratpoison. i guess i never could keep track of all the stuff i had open.
...which is why it's clumsy with graphical apps.

Ripfox
November 1st, 2008, 06:48 PM
i never liked ratpoison. i guess i never could keep track of all the stuff i had open.

chucky, you fuscia?

mentallaxative
November 1st, 2008, 06:50 PM
i never liked ratpoison. i guess i never could keep track of all the stuff i had open.

C-t w gives you a window list. I used that a lot, though I had Caps Lock as my special escape key instead. The echo function is nicely abusable for displaying all sorts of snippets of info--I used to have keybindings to report my Folding@Home status and display a list of todo's through echo. I eventually abandoned Ratpoison when I got tired of its handling of non-fullscreen windows. Sadly, when I think about it now, switching to dwm only seems to be trading in one set of annoyances for another (vanilla dwm can't cycle to next/previous tag; must explicitly press Modkey+number of tag to get it).

cardinals_fan
November 1st, 2008, 06:54 PM
chucky, you fuscia?
Fuscia went to rehab and emerged as chucky chuckaluck.

chucky chuckaluck
November 1st, 2008, 07:03 PM
chucky, you fuscia?

(uh-oh...)

fedex1993
November 1st, 2008, 07:29 PM
Working on getting my servers to use htem well not servers just xtra desktops getting awesome up and running

Ripfox
November 1st, 2008, 11:01 PM
(uh-oh...)

heheh topic squashed ;)

urukrama
November 1st, 2008, 11:55 PM
In my opinion, the real advantage of tiling is the total keyboard control and the lack of titlebars. Fullscreen apps for the win!

You could do that in Openbox, as I do. I disabled the window decorations for all the applications I normally run maximized (why do I need a titlebar for Opera?), and I can control every aspect of the window manager with keybindings.

The real advantage of tiling window managers for me is the tagging feature, particularly the ability to assign different layouts to different tags. Tags are so much more than workspaces. I can move certain applications to a different tag/workspace, and by doing so fit them into a particular layout (floating, tiled, bottom tiled, maximized,...).

chucky chuckaluck
November 2nd, 2008, 12:03 AM
the times i find tiling most useful are when i go on a purge and have yaourt -Q in one terminal and yaourt -Rs in another. also, editing gtk themes is a lot easier with all the various components tiled instead of all piled around each other. then, just having a few things going like htop, cplay and streamripper is a lot easier tiled.

LaRoza
November 2nd, 2008, 12:24 AM
No, it's not and you know it.

Oh. The average person in the world is very poor. The average person doesn't have a computer.


No, not at all. I addressed her apparent misunderstanding of what he meant by "normal", as in "what's most common". You can have different norms, but you can't define what's most common. And he meant the latter.

Normal doesn't mean most common, at least, not like that. Tiling is my everyday computing environment. Why are you saying "normal" means "most common", yet "different norms" doesn't change the meaning of normal?

Linguistically, you make so sense at all. Logically, it is futile to even consider what doesn't make sense.

RiceMonster
November 2nd, 2008, 12:30 AM
also, editing gtk themes is a lot easier with all the various components tiled instead of all piled around each other.

Indeed. I just tile them in vim

:sp /path/to/file
:vsp /path/to/file

chucky chuckaluck
November 2nd, 2008, 12:32 AM
Indeed. I just tile them in vim

:sp /path/to/file
:vsp /path/to/file

i still haven't made it to "hello world" in vim yet.

schauerlich
November 2nd, 2008, 12:35 AM
i still haven't made it to "hello world" in vim yet.



$ vim ~/hello
i
hello, world!
<esc> :wq
$ cat ~/hello

cardinals_fan
November 2nd, 2008, 12:45 AM
You could do that in Openbox, as I do. I disabled the window decorations for all the applications I normally run maximized (why do I need a titlebar for Opera?), and I can control every aspect of the window manager with keybindings.

Sure, I could, but it would take more work than having it out of the box in dwm. And I actually like that dwm bar thingy on the top (what dmenu covers).

i still haven't made it to "hello world" in vim yet.
For shame :P


Clearly, EDavidBurg has 1337 vim skills.

jimi_hendrix
November 2nd, 2008, 01:08 AM
Clearly, EDavidBurg has 1337 vim skills.

i need 5 vim skills...

1. saving a file

2. :syn on

3. /find this string

4. y or yy

5. p

i like tilling WMs for when i need to compile programs from command line...no swapping windoes

sertse
November 2nd, 2008, 01:17 AM
Normal is in context of the discussion. Computer users or Linux Computer Users, or Computer users where tiling is an option. Either way, assertion would be correct.


I still find setting always on top when needed, and setting appropriate opacity settings for focused/unfocused (Or refining it more, tailoring it to each app) to be more useful than tiling. Advantage of using the full screen and having multiple apps on screen. Both of all worlds.

jerrylamos
November 2nd, 2008, 01:18 AM
I run full screen Firefox. As much data as I can get on the screen.

Flip to a different full screen Office. As much data as I can get on the screen.

Flip to a different window, work on digital pictures as big as I can see in a full screen.

Why would I want to look at little bitty pictures of part of what I'm working on?

Jerry

cardinals_fan
November 2nd, 2008, 01:19 AM
I run full screen Firefox. As much data as I can get on the screen.

Flip to a different full screen Office. As much data as I can get on the screen.

Flip to a different window, work on digital pictures as big as I can see in a full screen.

Why would I want to look at little bitty pictures of part of what I'm working on?

Jerry
This thread is for why you don't use a tiling WM.

chucky chuckaluck
November 2nd, 2008, 01:26 AM
$ vim ~/hello
i
hello, world!
<esc> :wq
$ cat ~/hello





For shame :P


"vim is great...FOR ME TO ASTERISK ON!!!!"
http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/triumph.bmp

brunovecchi
November 2nd, 2008, 02:40 AM
Oh. The average person in the world is very poor. The average person doesn't have a computer.



Normal doesn't mean most common, at least, not like that. Tiling is my everyday computing environment. Why are you saying "normal" means "most common", yet "different norms" doesn't change the meaning of normal?

Linguistically, you make so sense at all. Logically, it is futile to even consider what doesn't make sense.

According to you then, I wouldn't even have to answer you because, as you made a spelling mistake, you don't make any sense at all.
But I will, because I try to understand what other people are trying to say according to the context.
And, according to the context, by normal he meant "what's most common". And just because I am so intuitive like that, I assume that you knew that too, but went for the technical definition to make yourself sound smart.

Tell me that I'm wrong now. I know I'm not.

LaRoza
November 2nd, 2008, 02:45 AM
And, according to the context, by normal he meant "what's most common". And just because I am so intuitive like that, I assume that you knew that too, but went for the technical definition to make yourself sound smart.

And according to the word used, "normal" was meant. žis is a technical forum. I am a technical person. I value the meaning of words.

Don't make assumptions about me. You are assuming a very infantile motive. I have no need to make myself sound anyžing.



Tell me that I'm wrong now. I know I'm not.
So your change of meaning of anožer's statement is right, whereas my understanding of že words is wrong?

brunovecchi
November 2nd, 2008, 03:00 AM
So your change of meaning of anožer's statement is right, whereas my understanding of že words is wrong?

You could ask billgoldberg what he actually meant. I believe I grasped his idea better, hence this discussion. I'm inclined to think that your literal interpretation of terms, apart from any paralinguistic clues, is hindering your communication skills.

We could have a discussion over PM if you want, I know that none of us want to OT this thread any more. I liked where it was going. This discussion is also interesting, I've held it before with a friend of mine (highly technical, just as you are). But I think this is not the place for it.

LaRoza
November 2nd, 2008, 03:01 AM
You could ask billgoldberg what he actually meant. I believe I grasped his idea better, hence this discussion. I'm inclined to think that your literal interpretation of terms, apart from any paralinguistic clues, is hindering your communication skills.


I didn't need to. It makes no sense to use že "it is more common" argument, as Windows is more common and žat is certainly not a valid argument from a Linux user.

People have assumptions about že way žings are, sometimes žey get in že way of moving forward.

camofish
December 23rd, 2008, 04:24 PM
I have been using xmonad with xmobar, trayer, and dmenu for a bit over a month now (no, I do not know Haskell.. but yes, I did edit my own configs for all of the above). It took me about a day to get in installed, config'd (mostly), learn how to use it and another day or two to get everything working (mostly) with gdm.

I will never go back to a non-tiling wm.

That being said, I will most likely dump gdm and gnome, since they are pretty bloated, cause problems with xdmx, and it takes a bit of hackery to get some gnome/gdm things running without actually using gnome/metacity..

Hakunka-Matata
May 31st, 2009, 04:08 AM
I use one, often. They are an efficiency aid. imho

Hakunka-Matata
May 31st, 2009, 04:14 AM
http://ftp.unixdev.net/pub/debian-udev/pool/main/t/tile/

that's the small windows tiler I use.