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Tank5489
April 9th, 2008, 06:45 PM
I am a freshman in college and over the past school year i have exclusively used Ubuntu, from papers to presentations. Ubuntu has been the best thing to me next to sliced bread. The point to this thread is that I'm trying to get public schools specifically in my area (for now) to switch over to Ubuntu. It has everything a student could need and its free! Recently My old school district (Minnesota 279) had a levy to receive more funds. of course, not all of it passed. A big part of that levy was for new computers/ Technology based equipment. Now because of the levy not passing teachers are being canned and three schools are closing completely! I want to make a presentation to the board about how much money there wasting on Microsoft products and why they need to switch over to Ubuntu in efforts to be more resourceful. I need all the argumentative points you can give me supporting the switch. In a perfect world this would become a state wide switch. once people see the ball rolling i think more supporters will come out of the wood work and push it farther. As American tax payers we have a right to decide how our public schools spend our money. Thanks for whatever you can give me!

TeraDyne
April 9th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Oh, how I wish the schools in my area would switch. The education budget in my state (Arkansas) is hurting, and the money we would save from switching to Linux would stop a lot of the needless "school consolidations" in the stupid "plan" that they passed a few years ago.

Personally, I'd love to get a job taking care of the school computers in my area. I'd be pushing Edubuntu, of course, but it's so much better than watching all that money going down the drain just to get working computers for the schools.

I wonder if I could give some sort of presentation that would get them to consider a live test... Hmm...

aysiu
April 9th, 2008, 06:57 PM
I think a proposed switch to Ubuntu would appear too drastic to the school board. It may be something you mention as a long-term goal, but the most immediate and more practical switch would be to open source Windows software. If I've learned anything in my past eight years working in both public and private US schools, it's that schools are afraid of change - so as gradual a change as you can offer, the better, and the likelier it'll actually happen.

http://www.opensourcewindows.org has a great list of native Windows software that's open source, and you can start by saving them money on Microsoft Office licenses by having some test computers use OpenOffice instead (make sure to mention its export-as-PDF built-in capabilities). You can also propose they use Firefox and GIMP.

Be prepared to state what the implementation costs/timeline will be, what company they can rely on and pay for tech support (Sun for Ooo?), and what potential problems may arise. Don't forget to give actual figures about how much money will be saved.

And, if you can, put them in touch with the school boards of public schools that have already switched to Linux. I think there may be some in Portland, OR; and I recently read in Linux Format that the San Diego Unified School District has implemented SLED for its schools.

Edit: Found an article about SDUSD at DesktopLinux.com... San Diego schools pick SUSE Linux desktop (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5336100320.html)

mrgnash
April 9th, 2008, 06:59 PM
I applaud your efforts in trying to encourage schools to move away from their dependency on Microsoft.

The main incentive, as you have already identified, is a financial one. But perhaps you could also point out that, the money they pay to Microsoft for both the operating system, and applications such as those that comprise the MS Office suite, only permits them to 'lease', but not 'own' the software. More importantly, this also applies to the file formats produced by these applications. At any time, Microsoft could decide to revoke their license and they would no longer be permitted access to their own files! Granted, this is a fairly unlikely scenario, but there is also the issue of cross-version compatibility -- new iterations of the software may break backwards compatibility, and yet, users/institutions are forced to upgrade to the latest version so that they can work with the latest file formats.

argraff
April 9th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Send out a survey to the teachers (paper or SurveyMonkey) and ask them how they use computers, how the students use computers, etc. I would say something about attempting to stop the cycle of no funding = less teachers (that should do it).

Then, collect the data, set up a computer which should meet the needs of the majority, and invite a few teachers to test it out (maybe you could ask for volunteers on the survey).

If it all passes, ask them to come with you for a board presentation. Bring the computer, the data results and real life teachers and students to attest to its usefulness. Point it out repeatedly as a smart business decision, and provide them with live CDs. Make a list of support places to help with the transition and to provided tech support (that one will be tricky).

Good luck! Post back if it works - I'd love to see it more places as well! :)

aysiu
April 9th, 2008, 07:06 PM
I don't know what's going on in Minnesota, but in the Bay Area we have a non-profit organization (out of which ZaReason grew) that recycles electronics (http://www.accrc.org/). If they can reuse the electronics, they do. If not, they melt it down and recycle the metal. For the computers that are reusable, they install Suse or Ubuntu and donate those machines to non-profits, schools, and individuals who cannot otherwise afford a personal computer.

You may want to contact them to see if they have a sister organization near MN.

Crafty Kisses
April 9th, 2008, 07:39 PM
I think a proposed switch to Ubuntu would appear too drastic to the school board. It may be something you mention as a long-term goal, but the most immediate and more practical switch would be to open source Windows software. If I've learned anything in my past eight years working in both public and private US schools, it's that schools are afraid of change - so as gradual a change as you can offer, the better, and the likelier it'll actually happen.

http://www.opensourcewindows.org has a great list of native Windows software that's open source, and you can start by saving them money on Microsoft Office licenses by having some test computers use OpenOffice instead (make sure to mention its export-as-PDF built-in capabilities). You can also propose they use Firefox and GIMP.

Be prepared to state what the implementation costs/timeline will be, what company they can rely on and pay for tech support (Sun for Ooo?), and what potential problems may arise. Don't forget to give actual figures about how much money will be saved.

And, if you can, put them in touch with the school boards of public schools that have already switched to Linux. I think there may be some in Portland, OR; and I recently read in Linux Format that the San Diego Unified School District has implemented SLED for its schools.

Edit: Found an article about SDUSD at DesktopLinux.com... San Diego schools pick SUSE Linux desktop (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5336100320.html)

Yeah, and also say if the Teacher knows nothing about Linux, that's a whole different story, but I think it's good that some schools are switching to Linux, I think it's a great learning oppurtunity, and I'm in full support of any school who chooses to do this!

Midwest-Linux
April 9th, 2008, 10:03 PM
Maybe if you bring up the fact thas 23,000 school computers in the Philippines and the 9000 school computers in Switzerland all going to Ubuntu and Linux. It might help with the switch to Linux here in the United States school systems.

aysiu
April 9th, 2008, 10:10 PM
Maybe if you bring up the fact thas 23,000 school computers in the Philippines and the 9000 school computers in Switzerland all going to Ubuntu and Linux. It might help with the switch to Linux here in the United States school systems.
Maybe. Or maybe they'll think "Those crazy foreigners..."

I think using US schools that have switched to Linux might be more convincing.

Midwest-Linux
April 9th, 2008, 10:19 PM
This might help

Athens Michigan Schools to Linux
http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050312/1002/NEWS01

Bexley City district all computers to Linux by 2010
http://www.thisweeknews.com/?sec=home&story=sites/thisweeknews/022207/Bexley/News/022207-News-310108.htm

San Diego Unified School District selects SUSE Linux Enterprise
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=36875

Calif. school district aims 5,000 desktops at Linux
http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS4958455863.html


San Fransisco Bay Area schools move to Linux
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9065899&intsrc=news_ts_head


1,000 (Maybe 15,000) school computers with Linux in Birmingham Alabama
http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/?i=53412;_hbguid=1dee89eb-3081-424d-a80b-49ac8311e7b7&d=top-news



Linux up 61 %
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9910263-16.html

frup
April 9th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Open source is perfect for governments and schools.

By having Microsoft in schools not only is tax being spent unnecessarily but Microsoft is essentially being paid to receive free advertising and tuition of it's products to students.

motoperpetuo
April 10th, 2008, 12:05 AM
Open source is perfect for governments and schools.

By having Microsoft in schools not only is tax being spent unnecessarily but Microsoft is essentially being paid to receive free advertising and tuition of it's products to students.

soooo...this might get me flamed and flamed good, but i was thinking that teaching kids linux in a world where microsoft dominates might not be the greatest thing for the kids. that is, when they go out looking for a job, employers want people who are literate in windows and microsoft office, the products their companies (unfortunately) actually use to get work done.

don't get me wrong, i'll always take linux over microsoft unless there's some very specific reason not to, but in the real world being windows illiterate hurts you when looking for a job.

yeah, i'm gonna get flamed good, aren't i?

heartburnkid
April 10th, 2008, 12:09 AM
soooo...this might get me flamed and flamed good, but i was thinking that teaching kids linux in a world where microsoft dominates might not be the greatest thing for the kids. that is, when they go out looking for a job, employers want people who are literate in windows and microsoft office, the products their companies (unfortunately) actually use to get work done.

don't get me wrong, i'll always take linux over microsoft unless there's some very specific reason not to, but in the real world being windows illiterate hurts you when looking for a job.

yeah, i'm gonna get flamed good, aren't i?

Sorry dude, but if the choice is between teachers and Windows, I'll support any district that chooses teachers. Besides, general computer literacy matters more than competency in any one OS for most (non-tech) jobs.

Besides, this is what we call a "bottom-up" shift. It's how most things actually change.

TeraDyne
April 10th, 2008, 12:10 AM
soooo...this might get me flamed and flamed good, but i was thinking that teaching kids linux in a world where microsoft dominates might not be the greatest thing for the kids. that is, when they go out looking for a job, employers want people who are literate in windows and microsoft office, the products their companies (unfortunately) actually use to get work done.

don't get me wrong, i'll always take linux over microsoft unless there's some very specific reason not to, but in the real world being windows illiterate hurts you when looking for a job.

yeah, i'm gonna get flamed good, aren't i?

If you do, the flamers will probably be dead wrong in some aspect.

I see your point, but at the same time, a new employee who's efficient in in Linux has a chance to get an employer to try using it in their work environment. Besides, there's not a whole lot of differences between Windows and Linux when it comes down to the basics, so that's not really a problem as far as I can tell.

aysiu
April 10th, 2008, 12:21 AM
soooo...this might get me flamed and flamed good, but i was thinking that teaching kids linux in a world where microsoft dominates might not be the greatest thing for the kids. that is, when they go out looking for a job, employers want people who are literate in windows and microsoft office, the products their companies (unfortunately) actually use to get work done.

don't get me wrong, i'll always take linux over microsoft unless there's some very specific reason not to, but in the real world being windows illiterate hurts you when looking for a job.

yeah, i'm gonna get flamed good, aren't i? If you consider people disagreeing with you "flaming," then, yes, you will be flamed. If you're expecting personal insults, name-calling, and belligerence, then you won't get it (if you did, we'd probably give that user an infraction).

I will disagree with you here, though.

I'm a working person. I use Microsoft Office, Filemaker, and a whole host of Windows programs for work. Did I use those programs when I was in high school or elementary school? No, because they didn't exist then. Or, if they did, they weren't popular then. For all my high school and middle school papers, I used a program called T3 for word processing. All the menus were accessed through F keys and the mouse was pretty much useless. The files were saved in a T3-specific format that wasn't a .doc extension. I had no database experience. In elementary school, we used Apple IIEs to make little programs where the turtle would zip around the screen drawing different colors. In high school, we had VAX terminals where we would write programs in Pascal. Did any of that directly translate to my use of MS Office or Filemaker? Nope.

The whole point of education is teaching children critical thinking and equipping them with the skills to get on in life. The technology aspect of that shouldn't be to teach them how to use a particular program but how to adapt to a new program when one is introduced to it. Students should learn principles about how programs work, not memorize steps in how to use a particular program to achieve a particular outcome.

If you're under 20, you may think that Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office were always the standard, but they weren't. Things change quickly in technology. The internet wasn't really in common use until even ten years ago.

And, honestly, the extent to which people use Microsoft Office, most tasks that can be accomplished there can also be done in OpenOffice. The way I've seen MS Office used in the workplace, people just want a place to type, make bold, italics, or bullet points. Most of my co-workers aren't writing macros are creating complex pivot tables.

frup
April 10th, 2008, 12:55 AM
I would think that the difference between using open office and word isn't that much.

I would even think that using Ubuntu and Windows isn't that different.

The trouble is that people get taught to use Windows or MS Office, then they think they only know how to use that and are already inclined to go out and buy it. Often they don't even know of the alternative.

From my experience at University, a lecturer will always recommend more than one text book, sure one may be preferred. That text book can always be found at the library as well, even if in limited quantity.

If you were studying architecture and were taught to use only AutoCAD (there are also programs such as ArchiCAD etc) would you have been taught the principles of CAD or how to use AutoCAD? Bet you it's the latter.

Chelidon
April 10th, 2008, 01:21 AM
The majority of the publics schools I attended had deals with Apple wherein they received Apple computers at a discount. After using Apples on and off for years (I had a PC at home), I can still be rather baffled trying to navigate Apple's file system. I think that if kids learn basic computer literacy (and not the idiotic sort* I got in middle school) it doesn't matter what OS it was learned with. What really matters is exposure. You learn to use a computer through fearless button-mashing. My first computer had Windows 3.1 Tab-file edition. I messed around with that thing so much I found the custom-color manager and made our file page nearly illegible.

Now, a decade and a half later I'm learning to be a fearless masher of keys in the command line, or a fearless masher-together of programs.


*we had to memorize what BOD rate meant *shudders*

motoperpetuo
April 10th, 2008, 01:25 AM
i definitely hope you guys are right, and that the fact that some school districts have adopted linux as a standard OS might signal some sort of change (or beginning thereof). as far as the kids being able to transition easily from linux to windows...i don't know. i guess it depends on the kid, and on the employer's patience with the kid's learning the little differences between, for example OOo and MS office. most of us are "computer guys" and tend to forget how difficult that kind of thing can be for the population at large.

actually, i wonder why more small-to-medium-sized businesses don't try using more open source software or even try going to linux as a desktop OS. it doesn't seem like it would be any harder to do the basic things that most admin assistants, accountants, and salespeople do with windows and MS office on linux and OOo. having seen what MS charges businesses for software licenses, i have to think they would save a bundle (and not have to worry about getting audited).

maybe finding people who can do linux support would be one of the main difficulties?

frup
April 10th, 2008, 01:36 AM
i definitely hope you guys are right, and that the fact that some school districts have adopted linux as a standard OS might signal some sort of change (or beginning thereof). as far as the kids being able to transition easily from linux to windows...i don't know. i guess it depends on the kid, and on the employer's patience with the kid's learning the little differences between, for example OOo and MS office. most of us are "computer guys" and tend to forget how difficult that kind of thing can be for the population at large.

actually, i wonder why more small-to-medium-sized businesses don't try using more open source software or even try going to linux as a desktop OS. it doesn't seem like it would be any harder to do the basic things that most admin assistants, accountants, and salespeople do with windows and MS office on linux and OOo. having seen what MS charges businesses for software licenses, i have to think they would save a bundle (and not have to worry about getting audited).

maybe finding people who can do linux support would be one of the main difficulties?


What you are worried about shows exactly how using Microsoft products in Education equates to a form of vendor lock-in; Even businesses must use it because otherwise they have to retrain their staff too.

init1
April 10th, 2008, 01:57 AM
The problem with this idea is that some people simply can't use unfamiliar interfaces. You wouldn't believe how ignorant some people can be about technology. This applies to teachers and students. I've known people who didn't know about the Windows sound recorder or couldn't copy files from one Windows explorer window to another. I wonder if these people will ever be able to use Linux if they struggle so much with Windows.

Chame_Wizard
April 10th, 2008, 04:11 AM
Once people are hooked,they never want to go back.

Pieboy337
April 10th, 2008, 04:26 AM
In a school I used to attend they had mostly windows computers. But in the computer repair class I was in, we all got together and put together computers from some old parts we all had and managed to get the school to order other parts we needed. We then managed to make a dozen pcs with linux. Most with ubuntu and a couple with red hat. We had them all in a small room that wasn't used in hopes people would use them in labs. Unfortunately everyone was too stubborn to even give it a try. It seems a lot of people out there are "anti-everything except windows."

kidux
April 10th, 2008, 05:07 AM
I work for the federal government, and am a soldier, and it's my dream to see them go to a Linux distribution of some sort. The amount of waste I see everyday spent, not only in money but also in time repairing windows, is astronomical. And for the most part, the IT guys answer is to re-image the machine! They don't even try to find the fix to the problem! I've had to fix my own machines numerous times because they got kicked off the network for some security violation, a false positive on a virus scan most of the time, and the answer I got was to take it to the local help desk to be re-imaged.

Taking into account the amount it costs for licenses for not only windows but every piece of MS software, and the fact that government employees get copies of programs such as office paid for by the government for home use, you could easily save millions if not billions, to be spent on things that are really needed, such as personal protective gear and equipment for us. I've brought the point up, and the more technically adept of us agree, but the idiots controlling the money think we're smoking crack, and I can only attribute it to the MS costs money, so it must be the best mentality. If only they knew what kind of power MS really had over our computer systems, it really scares me some times.

motoperpetuo
April 10th, 2008, 06:25 AM
I can only attribute it to the MS costs money, so it must be the best mentality. If only they knew what kind of power MS really had over our computer systems, it really scares me some times.

i think it's mainly a combination of that and the unwillingness to try something new. again, most of us here are really into computers and knowledgeable about them (at least compared to the general public), and we tend to forget how terrified most people are of trying something even a little bit different on their computers.

actually, the last part is a bit understandable when you consider the sky-high prices that places like circuit city and best buy (big american electronic retailers, for those outside of the US) charge to even look at a computer that's having problems.

kidux
April 10th, 2008, 06:31 AM
i think it's mainly a combination of that and the unwillingness to try something new. again, most of us here are really into computers and knowledgeable about them (at least compared to the general public), and we tend to forget how terrified most people are of trying something even a little bit different on their computers.

actually, the last part is a bit understandable when you consider the sky-high prices that places like circuit city and best buy (big american electronic retailers, for those outside of the US) charge to even look at a computer that's having problems.

Good point, but conversely, since the ME days my wife refuses to have windows in the house, and she is soooo NOT a computer person. I think if people weren't sheeple, there would be a lot more outrage at MS' practices. That and if people really read their EULA, too. I can't get over how I can spend hundreds on the OS, only to spend a bunch more if I need to call the tech support line to fix something inherently wrong with the OS.

SrEstroncio
April 10th, 2008, 07:25 AM
On the topic:
I live in Tijuana, Mexico and if thereīs one place in the world thatīs completely dependant on Microsoft that is my country(when Richard Stallman came to my neighbour city Ensenada he complained about the mexican government relying too much on Microsoft, and I think all of the official government servers use windows server).
I have been using ubuntu for nearly a year and I have a classmate who works giving maintenance to Linux servers, as part of the community service we are obliged to do in my school me and a group of friends organized a conference in my schoolīs theather about Linux and open source. In that conference we explained the benefits of using open source software vs proprietary and expensive software, the history of open source and itīs uses (my fellow mexicanīs donīt even know thereīs something other than windows and office and several of them think they are the same thing). We also showed off a laptop running compiz-fusion and we invited a guy from a local Linux community to speak (Linux Baja).
To finish everything off we gave out about 150 ubuntu live CDs (from which canonical kindly sent about 50 to us, we burned the other ones) and 150 CDLibre Cds (CDlibre is kind of like Open CD) containing only open source applications and offered an Ubuntu Installation session in our schoolīs computer room, where we used the open source virtual machine Virtual Box to show other students how to install and use ubuntu.
I want to say thank you canonical and thank you ubuntu community for making this possible and helping me use ubuntu for the past year.
just my grain of salt.

Saint Angeles
April 10th, 2008, 07:28 AM
I am a freshman in college and over the past school year i have exclusively used Ubuntu, from papers to presentations. Ubuntu has been the best thing to me next to sliced bread..

Ubuntu is MUCH better than sliced bread.

what if you don't want your bread sliced?

mrgnash
April 10th, 2008, 10:33 AM
On the topic:
I live in Tijuana, Mexico and if thereīs one place in the world thatīs completely dependant on Microsoft that is my country(when Richard Stallman came to my neighbour city Ensenada he complained about the mexican government relying too much on Microsoft, and I think all of the official government servers use windows server).
I have been using ubuntu for nearly a year and I have a classmate who works giving maintenance to Linux servers, as part of the community service we are obliged to do in my school me and a group of friends organized a conference in my schoolīs theather about Linux and open source. In that conference we explained the benefits of using open source software vs proprietary and expensive software, the history of open source and itīs uses (my fellow mexicanīs donīt even know thereīs something other than windows and office and several of them think they are the same thing). We also showed off a laptop running compiz-fusion and we invited a guy from a local Linux community to speak (Linux Baja).
To finish everything off we gave out about 150 ubuntu live CDs (from which canonical kindly sent about 50 to us, we burned the other ones) and 150 CDLibre Cds (CDlibre is kind of like Open CD) containing only open source applications and offered an Ubuntu Installation session in our schoolīs computer room, where we used the open source virtual machine Virtual Box to show other students how to install and use ubuntu.
I want to say thank you canonical and thank you ubuntu community for making this possible and helping me use ubuntu for the past year.
just my grain of salt.

That's a great story, well done. I think that helping to spread Linux is not just about software, it's about consciousness-raising.

caravel
April 10th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Unfortunately everyone was too stubborn to even give it a try. It seems a lot of people out there are "anti-everything except windows."
Unfortunately Linux still bears the "geek OS" label and that will be hard to shift. Also there is a mindset of "you get what you pay for". Most people cannot come to terms with a free Anti-virus, free firewall or free web browser, so a free Operating System is asking a bit too much.

I am always recommending free security software to windows users and am constantly met with sheer disbelief and distrust. I once even put Firefox, AVG and Spybot S&D on a disc for one person and he has never installed them simply because it's "FREE" and therefore surely can't be any good. He is afraid to take Norton AV off because he assumes that it's supposed to be there and he has a license for it. He's also worried that Firefox will somehow break his IE.

This culture of adversity to free software on windows needs to be challenged first before anything else.

kidux
April 10th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Unfortunately Linux still bears the "geek OS" label and that will be hard to shift. Also there is a mindset of "you get what you pay for". Most people cannot come to terms with a free Anti-virus, free firewall or free web browser, so a free Operating System is asking a bit too much.

I am always recommending free security software to windows users and am constantly met with sheer disbelief and distrust. I once even put Firefox, AVG and Spybot S&D on a disc for one person and he has never installed them simply because it's "FREE" and therefore surely can't be any good. He is afraid to take Norton AV off because he assumes that it's supposed to be there and he has a license for it. He's also worried that Firefox will somehow break his IE.

This culture of adversity to free software on windows needs to be challenged first before anything else.

I have a guy like that at work. He got the virusheat adware, which pops up with messages telling you that you need protection against malware, and it looks all windowsy enough. The guy was going to the link it provided him, but because of a crapload of other malware, the page wouldn't resolve. He went out and bought Norton security suite, installed it and all his internet apps stop working.

So I took Norton off, got rid of the virusheat malware, and then told him to get AVG, Spybot S&D, and Lavasoft's AdAware. I also gave him a live cd of Kubuntu 7.10 and Ubuntu 7.10, just so he could check out Linux and see what it has to offer. He's reluctant to try any of it because it's all free, but is willing to let me put Kubuntu on his home PC that is hosed anyway, so it's a start.

Anyway, back on topic, I tried to explain it to the money holders that FOSS was the way to go. I laid it out, showing them that they spend ~$2k per machine for the hardware and software they use, whereas if they went with FOSS then they could cut their costs down to ~$500-$700 per machine, basically just the cost of the hardware. Their first question, which is valid, was about support, and I told them many distributors on Linux have commercial products available in which you aren't paying for the OS, but the support of the OS, unlike MS where you are paying for the privilege of using the OS, and then pay extra for support. And I told them it would be a bit of an upfront investment to train the IT folks how to administer Linux, but the ones they trained could then train the rest, and you end up saving money in the long term. Course they didn't listen to me, but hey, I'll keep trying.

Tank5489
April 11th, 2008, 12:44 AM
Wow, this Thread is getting a lot more attention than i originally though! thanks so much for all the help! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who wants a change. also your strategy ideas are priceless. Keep posting if you have anything new, i want to hit them with everything i can.

TeraDyne
April 11th, 2008, 12:54 AM
Anyway, back on topic, I tried to explain it to the money holders that FOSS was the way to go. I laid it out, showing them that they spend ~$2k per machine for the hardware and software they use, whereas if they went with FOSS then they could cut their costs down to ~$500-$700 per machine, basically just the cost of the hardware. Their first question, which is valid, was about support, and I told them many distributors on Linux have commercial products available in which you aren't paying for the OS, but the support of the OS, unlike MS where you are paying for the privilege of using the OS, and then pay extra for support. And I told them it would be a bit of an upfront investment to train the IT folks how to administer Linux, but the ones they trained could then train the rest, and you end up saving money in the long term. Course they didn't listen to me, but hey, I'll keep trying.

You're lucky. I didn't even get the chance to meet with the head of the school district, despite being an old friend. He said that the weren't interested, though he did hint that I could try again at the end of the year. That's some progress, I guess.

BTW, I know it's off topic, but is that a Poochama\Piplup in your avatar? It looks like one.

zmjjmz
April 11th, 2008, 03:53 AM
I'm not sure how well the school computers would fare with Linux, mostly due to the proprietary software we depend on. I do know a target set of computers that are used entirely for attendance -- with an Oracle Java-based webapp. (that sits on our Windows server...) I have also been unable to find any special applications on these computers. Even better: These computers seem to be slow as Vista on a 486, and by running Linux through LiveCD I found that this speed is entirely due to Windows.

kidux
April 11th, 2008, 05:46 AM
You're lucky. I didn't even get the chance to meet with the head of the school district, despite being an old friend. He said that the weren't interested, though he did hint that I could try again at the end of the year. That's some progress, I guess.

BTW, I know it's off topic, but is that a Poochama\Piplup in your avatar? It looks like one.

Well, this is with the state military department, and having a boss who's been in the system for nigh 30 years helps to get into the door.

Not sure what my avi is, I found it in the Breathless icon set downloaded from gnome or KDE-look.

Riffer
April 11th, 2008, 06:34 AM
I'm not sure how well the school computers would fare with Linux, mostly due to the proprietary software we depend on. I do know a target set of computers that are used entirely for attendance -- with an Oracle Java-based webapp. (that sits on our Windows server...) I have also been unable to find any special applications on these computers. Even better: These computers seem to be slow as Vista on a 486, and by running Linux through LiveCD I found that this speed is entirely due to Windows.

You must be in BC as I have to use that so called attendance app. The worst piece of software I've ever seen.

It actually does run on Ubuntu with the proper java enabled, as well as FirstClass an email system that we use in our district.

Tank5489
April 11th, 2008, 07:14 AM
Quick add onto my original question. The district used a program that monitored the computer use by a single "teachers" computer. The program had features like real time screen viewing, the ability to "lock up" the computers if the teacher needed the class to listen and the ability to completely take over the entire computer. The Teachers loved this tool, I know first hand (one too many gaming sites) Although I hate to do this to the new kids but is there a Linux equivalent? also What about a grade book system?

Bou
April 11th, 2008, 09:00 AM
The program had features like real time screen viewing, the ability to "lock up" the computers if the teacher needed the class to listen and the ability to completely take over the entire computer. The Teachers loved this tool, I know first hand (one too many gaming sites) Although I hate to do this to the new kids but is there a Linux equivalent?

Sounds like thin client manager (http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-tcm.html) to me. Comes installed with Edubuntu, but you can install it on Ubuntu if you want.

zmjjmz
April 11th, 2008, 07:25 PM
You must be in BC as I have to use that so called attendance app. The worst piece of software I've ever seen.

It actually does run on Ubuntu with the proper java enabled, as well as FirstClass an email system that we use in our district.
Does BC = High School?
Also, I can confirm it's cross browser (not just an IE thing) as my Global Studies teacher uses it with Safari on the Macs in our classroom.

GOROSSI
April 11th, 2008, 08:25 PM
We have the same issues in UK about monetary issues the Secondary (High) school I attended couldn't afford to replace old Pentium 133mhz machines which where 9 years old when I was in My last year there doing My A levels.

the reason was the cost of the Microsoft licenses for the machine and the lease costs as the local council at the time insisted schools signed crippling lease agreements rather than buying the machines outright.

Twitch6000
April 11th, 2008, 10:16 PM
If you can any way get them to switch from Microsoft I am here to help.(if im not to late :().

1.There are many distros of Linux that can meet any need.Them being anything from music to education.

2.Almost any Microsoft program out there that people waste money on has a great open source alternative.Which if you are a programming student can learn from :).

3.Linux is not only free but,open source so again you have free will.You are not restricted to anything at all.Unless ofcourse you have web blockers and such.It is also gaining more support so the more support it gets the more programs and hardware help the Linux community will receive.

Lastly it has I believe 2 great distributions that are perfect for education so why even waste a good 500-1000 dollars on Microsoft oses and programs when you pay 0$ for exactly what you need not anything extra.

Hope that helped :).

wandalalakers
April 11th, 2008, 11:30 PM
I have one family member willing to try linux since I told him that it will speed up his verrrry old pc. Another family member I installed edubuntu on her pc and she said, "Does it come with Internet Explorer?". She also didn't like the solitaire that came with damn small linux. I ended up putting windows 98 back on her pc. Her other win98 pc solitaire stopped working. The executable stopped working. I started to tell her that if she had linux this probably wouldn't happen. On another note, I got an admin at a school to try open office on her hp desktop. She was excited when I told her about open office and that it was free. I wish we could stop the big computer companies from putting windows on laptops and desktops. Imagine all of the money users and schools could save? Especially if they were going to put linux on it.

zmjjmz
April 11th, 2008, 11:32 PM
There was something in the EU about selling the OS separately from the computer...

Riffer
April 11th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Does BC = High School?
Also, I can confirm it's cross browser (not just an IE thing) as my Global Studies teacher uses it with Safari on the Macs in our classroom.

Yeah I teach shop in a BC high school. And the software is called BCESIS, talk about wasting money. Almost 200 million dollars spent in upgrades etc and what we have is less then what it replaced.