[Idea] Let's build a free web hosting portal for Ubuntu users

[Zdravko]

Update:
We have a forum running: http://www.spocore.com/ubuland/
Thanks to Saj, we have now a running blog for the project's development! It is located under:
http://saj0577.homelinux.com/blog.php?id=23

If interested in developing this system, just contact Saj and you will be given access to the "brainstorming" section! :KS

Hi there!
I wonder what happened to a project "Ubuntu users" or something like that. The project was about creating web space for Ubuntu users for free for establishing blogs etc. It was meant to be a user-driven and community-oriented portal dedicated to the Ubuntu user (not Ubuntu itself!). However, the project leader suddenly got ill. I still don't know the ongoing status. Anyway...

Has anyone the strength and power to relive this project from the ashes once again? In the past it seemed a great idea. Everyone should have earned say 5 or 10 MB of free web space. But it seems that building the portal is quite a difficult task. I remember proposing Python as the default programming language for the whole system. However, without any effect. Could it be that the project was abandoned just because of lack of programmers?
The project leader was once very dedicated and insisted on building every piece of the system using free and open source tools only. I also liked that idea.

Furthermore, I strongly believe that every human being does deserve not only an operating system for free (just like Ubuntu), but also a place of its own, a place where one could put its stuff and build its information warehouse for sharing with other people. Encouraged by the spirit of Ubuntu such a project may rise and bring open source software closer to a bright future. Also, people would get web hosting without paying taxes.

How could be decided whether a certain person is Ubuntu user and does have the right of a web page in a such portal? Well, the answer is: there is no way and hence no need to check this. Do we check if everyone here in this forum uses Ubuntu? No. Do we really need that? No. Simply because the common idea that binds us all together in this place is the Ubuntu philosophy. As software should be free for use, the same applies for the personal web page. Everyone deserves its own!

One possible reason for the "strange" failure of the previous project was the lack of sponsors. It seems that Ubuntu is alive because of its constant cash flow through sponsors. The online community portal I am talking about may also need these too.

As a conclusion, I would like to say that the need for open source and free to use web hosting will continuously rise. Ubuntu succeeded because of its humane principles - why would we ever pay money for an OS? Never again! The same story applies for storing data in a web server.

Let me hear your opinions now...

[pt_lam]

Sounds an interesting idea.

But what about the other members of the project?

Also, is there any wiki for the peoject?

[Zdravko]

There were about 10 of them or so. Dunno what happened later with them. I am pretty sure there was a launchpad site for the project. I remember even a web site with several graphics there as a home page. Where has all that gone?

[Zdravko]

I will bump this thread for another few weeks in order to get more opinions. So far, the poll shows that the majority of people here do want such a site to be developed.

[Saint Angeles]

its a great idea...


you should develop it!

[handy]

Financing the hardware & the bandwidth is not an insignificant problem.

I would be happy to pay a minimal amount per annum for such a service to exist. Even if I didn't use it. I think you will find very many people would be prepared to pay a minimal amount also.

What's minimal? $10 to $20 US per year. Their could be a 2 (or more) tiered price scale relating to the amount of storage space. The problem then becomes, without an initial sponsor, where does the money come from to start it up. That's always the hard part.

The whole thing really hinges on being a great service (reliable bandwidth) that is not for profit. It has the potential to become an absolute giant, as word gets around. .mac for the people, at bugger all cost is what it could become with the FOSS smarts developing extensions for it.

Wouldn't so many of us like a place to store & access our bookmarks from that wasn't run by some marketroid business that is tracking our every move & making money out of selling the info to corporate entities?

[loell]

reminds me of..

whatever happened to that project/hosting where he/she offers free blog space exclusively for ubuntu users?

[billgoldberg]

The idea sounds good.

But there are so much free web hosting portals out there, it's going to have to be very good to attract people.

Would the service refuse people using other OSs?

[Zdravko]

you should develop it!
I can contribute with a few ideas only. Despite the fact I am a software engineer I just don't have the spare time to tackle with web development.



I would be happy to pay a minimal amount per annum for such a service to exist. Even if I didn't use it. I think you will find very many people would be prepared to pay a minimal amount also.

What's minimal? $10 to $20 US per year. Their could be a 2 (or more) tiered price scale relating to the amount of storage space.

Sounds reasonable. However, do you pay any tax to use Ubuntu? There is a tax for a professional support though. Let's sum it up:
Basic membership (5 MB of free space) - free
Paid membership - you name it!


Wouldn't so many of us like a place to store & access our bookmarks from that wasn't run by some marketroid business that is tracking our every move & making money out of selling the info to corporate entities?
That's exactly what I am talking about! :KS


But there are so much free web hosting portals out there, it's going to have to be very good to attract people.


The "free" web hosting portals include ads, sometimes they break or they lack essential features like the creation of a subdomain(?).


Would the service refuse people using other OSs?

No! Absolutely no! Assume you have to use Windows from time to time. When you try to boot into Ubuntu do you ever get the error message "You are not an Ubuntu user - ergo you don't deserve to use it!"??? I suggest you read the Ubuntu philosophy pages once more...

[Zdravko]

Bump!

I came up with some hints about the future service. It seems that there will be a root domain xxx. Then each registered user with the name yyy will get a subdomain labeled: xxx/~yyy.
Each user must receive at least 2 databases and approximately 5 to 10 MB of space. This way a blog and a forum could be easily constructed :)
The registration should validate the user's email, so that multiple attempts from the same person are avoided.
This is a nice start, isn't it?

It is important to get the whole thing started, since a lot of people are in desperate need of such a place. We could start small and simple and slowly keep adding new and fancy features to the hosting. But first it is important to find sponsors and servers!

[pt_lam]

Right, guys. Maybe let's start seriously.

So shall we have a mailing list and/or a wiki with some TODOs and announcements so that we can communicate and work more efficiently?

[Zdravko]

A simple forum would do the job. Or something similar to the brainstorm system. A mailing list would be nice too.

[bobbocanfly]

Nice idea and i cant see why it wont work. 10-25mb of space would probably be better than 5mb so that people can put up .debs etc. and not feel too restricted. Maybe 20mb webspace and 5mb database or something. That means with 1000 users (which is a lot) only about 3gb of space is taken up on the hard disk (which is dead cheap anyway) and bandwidth for that amount of data wouldnt cost too much.

Stick a wiki up and i'll try to help out.

[Zdravko]

I think that this project lacks its leader. Anyone? ;)

[Zdravko]

Stick a wiki up and i'll try to help out.

I just set up a wiki page!
Here it is: http://wikihost.org/wikis/ubuland (http://wikihost.org/wikis/ubuland/wiki/start)

Let's move the concrete ideas there, okay? I will update the first post of this thread to direct to the wiki!

Update: Thanks to Saj, we have now a running blog for the project's development! It is located under:
http://saj0577.homelinux.com/blog.php?id=23

If interested in developing this system, just contact Saj and you will be given access to the "brainstorming" section! :KS

[Zdravko]

Bump!

[bobbocanfly]

Wrote up a page for some basic ideas about software to use on the server (if it is being hosted by the Ubuland team, obviosuly not if we are using shared hosting etc.)

[pt_lam]

Hey, but why don't we have the wiki under ubuntu,
say wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuland?

[Zdravko]

Wrote up a page for some basic ideas about software to use on the server (if it is being hosted by the Ubuland team, obviosuly not if we are using shared hosting etc.)
Okay. I am not sure whether Python would be included though. I would love to have Python support for my web site, but this seems a larger and tougher goal.


Hey, but why don't we have the wiki under ubuntu,
say wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuland?

Dunno why. Because no one ever said it is possible to do so. Why don't you set it up? ;)

[saj0577]

At the minute i dont feel i could help with the portal (if in python) as i would be more a hindence then a help lol. But i am more then willing to help out with the website side of it (php/html/mysql/etc.)

Saj

[saj0577]

As for comunicating about it what about an open blog where all the people who are part of the project get password access to and all update it with a pool of ideas, and any progress they made(once a plan has been set with whos doing what.)

Saj


Ive seen the wiki type page but i think it maybe needs to be split up into areas of work, frontend, back end, etc.

Saj

[saj0577]

Felt bit chekky editing the page. lol
What about it only being avaiable for people on the forums and use the same username for both? Hows the sign up on it going to work?

Saj

[Zdravko]

saj0577 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=268494), the wiki I created is horrible, I know. I am trying to find someone who can come up with a better solution for organizing the project. If you know how to set up a blog - just help us do it :)
Why would you want to limit the users to this forum only? The others who don't know of ubuntu forums are not humans? Is that what you are saying?
I did say it clear - it must be free of charge! The details are in progress. Follow the wiki.

[bobbocanfly]

saj0577 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=268494), the wiki I created is horrible, I know. I am trying to find someone who can come up with a better solution for organizing the project. If you know how to set up a blog - just help us do it :)
Why would you want to limit the users to this forum only? The others who don't know of ubuntu forums are not humans? Is that what you are saying?
I did say it clear - it must be free of charge! The details are in progress. Follow the wiki.

Ok, i'll sort out some space on the Ubuntu wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntuland probably) as soon as it starts working again (im getting errors trying to edit pages) so we can collect ideas there.

I wont be able to put too much time into this but will try and help out where i can.

[pt_lam]

Ok, i'll sort out some space on the Ubuntu wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntuland probably) as soon as it starts working again (im getting errors trying to edit pages) so we can collect ideas there.

I wont be able to put too much time into this but will try and help out where i can.

I just got "A problem occurred in a Python script." when I clicked "Create new empty page".

[Zdravko]

I did get: "You are not allowed to edit this page.". It seems that the Ubuntu wiki is even worse than that wikihost I have chosen :(

[pt_lam]

I did get: "You are not allowed to edit this page.". It seems that the Ubuntu wiki is even worse than that wikihost I have chosen :(

Maybe you should login to launchpad first.

[Zdravko]

Maybe you should login to
launchpad first.
I also get "A problem occurred in a Python script.". Let's continue using that damn wikihost, okay? You see, I even added a rules section :)

[saj0577]

saj0577 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=268494), the wiki I created is horrible, I know. I am trying to find someone who can come up with a better solution for organizing the project. If you know how to set up a blog - just help us do it :)
Why would you want to limit the users to this forum only? The others who don't know of ubuntu forums are not humans? Is that what you are saying?
I did say it clear - it must be free of charge! The details are in progress. Follow the wiki.

Yeha at least you tried though mate. Okay yeah i get your point about the forums only, we just need to try and think of a way to keep it to ubuntu people only so we dont get it being abused.

How about we generate a list of people who are willing to help and what they can help with (their strengths). Because we may have enough people to get this underway now just not know it.

I'm more then willing to give a big helping hand in this and try to keep it rolling, so unless anyone got any objections or wish to do the job im more then happy to step up and "take control" as such untill someone more suitable is found?

As for the leader of the group deciding the name of the project etc, i think this should be a decision between all the people who helped out(in anyway) and do it democratically, as its a community project.

Constructive Feedback influenced.

Saj

[saj0577]

I also get "A problem occurred in a Python script.". Let's continue using that damn wikihost, okay? You see, I even added a rules section :)

I got some webhosting space i could put it on and add wordpress or whatever people want to use do to this? I even think you can get the proper wiki files for your own host, but dont quote me on that.


Saj

[Zdravko]

Yeha at least you tried though mate. Okay yeah i get your point about the forums only, we just need to try and think of a way to keep it to ubuntu people only so we dont get it being abused.

What could be abused? The wiki? Yes, you are right. It seems unreliable. A blog with some form of registration would lower the risk.


How about we generate a list of people who are willing to help and what they can help with (their strengths). Because we may have enough people to get this underway now just not know it.

So far, these people are you and me.


I'm more then willing to give a big helping hand in this and try to keep it rolling, so unless anyone got any objections or wish to do the job im more then happy to step up and "take control" as such untill someone more suitable is found?

I take this as a candidature for project leader. However, in oder to get elected you need more votes. Maybe some kind of a discussion between other people must be done. Let's just set up a blog somewhere, okay?


As for the leader of the group deciding the name of the project etc, i think this should be a decision between all the people who helped out(in anyway) and do it democratically, as its a community project.

It depends on the project leader. Some people are open minded and democratic. I prefer such people. Thank you for your enthusiasm!

[Zdravko]

I got some webhosting space i could put it on and add wordpress or whatever people want to use do to this? I even think you can get the proper wiki files for your own host, but dont quote me on that.


Saj
Excellent job! Set up a communicating system of your choice. Be it a wiki or a blog - just let it be simple to communicate. I can then just copy-paste my ideas from the wikihost.

[saj0577]

I shall do that know on my home system so you can view it and see what you think of my blog system. :)

If you have msn and dont mind could you possibly send me a PM with it so we can talk on there about setting the blog up.

Saj

[Zdravko]

Thanks to Saj, we have now a running blog for the project's development! It is located under:
http://saj0577.homelinux.com/blog.php?id=23

If interested in developing this system, just contact Saj and you will be given access to the "brainstorming" section! :KS

[saj0577]

Its not fully active at the minute but shall be in the next few minutes. :)

Saj


UPDATE ( 11-April-2008 ) :Calling it a night guys my head is spinning will work on it some more tomorrow so its fully functioning.

[Zdravko]

Don't worry about that - you have contributed to this project a lot :)

[saj0577]

Back at 9PM (GMT+1) and i shall continue my work on it through out the night.

Suggestion (il add it to the blog when wok on it later)
Use skype as the comunication, as its easy to set up and easy to have a meeting on it.

Saj

[zorocke]

I can provide a phpbb3 forum for the project discussion, if you all are interested?

[Rhapsody]

Well, the idea sounds pretty nice and I do have a web site (http://pointlessness.freehostia.com/), but the problem is that I already have a perfectly good host and don't see how you could beat Freehostia (http://www.freehostia.com/). I've got plenty of features, 250MB of space, 5GB of bandwidth a month, no banners, no pop-ups (or at least none that Firefox can't block), a server running on free software (Linux, Apache, OpenSSL), 99.9% guaranteed uptime, a choice of HTTP or FTP uploading, and I don't even have to pay anything!

So, getting down to business, what would a service like this actually offer me that I don't already have?

[bobbocanfly]

Well, the idea sounds pretty nice and I do have a web site (http://pointlessness.freehostia.com/), but the problem is that I already have a perfectly good host and don't see how you could beat Freehostia (http://www.freehostia.com/). I've got plenty of features, 250MB of space, 5GB of bandwidth a month, no banners, no pop-ups (or at least none that Firefox can't block), a server running on free software (Linux, Apache, OpenSSL), 99.9% guaranteed uptime, a choice of HTTP or FTP uploading, and I don't even have to pay anything!

So, getting down to business, what would a service like this actually offer me that I don't already have?

Well this far in the planning stage nothing is particularly clear. It all depends on how the project is structured really.

I think we are aiming to get this running on entirely free software, and preferably Ubuntu server edition, though this depends on how we actually get the hosting set up.

If we manage to get someone with a good home connection and a spare box in the attic then basically we are free to do what we want, ie. allow users shell access and run whatever (free as in speech) software we want really. If we are using shared hosting on a hosting provider we really have very little say on this though.

The only main advantage over Freehostia this has (from the planning so far, we only started talking about this 2 days ago so, obviously, we havent got very far yet) is that we plan to give more MySQL databases out, but as i say, we dont know enough about how the project is going to be structured to really compare this to another free hosting service.

In other news, i'd recommend an IRC meeting sometime soon where we can work out how this project will work. I'd prefer to use IRC over Skype as firstly it is free software and secondly it is easier to read back over the decisions made etc., though obviously im not the main player in this and it is really up to Saj and Zdravko.

[zorocke]

I would also like to throw in the idea of the ability to host private source code with SVN would be a very nice addition. This may go against the whole open source idea, but even free software developers do not want to release their source to the public early on. But at the same time we like to have source hosting for private use, such as sharing source between our laptop and our desktop.

But this is just my little request.

[Zdravko]

Well this far in the planning stage nothing is particularly clear. It all depends on how the project is structured really.

I think we are aiming to get this running on entirely free software, and preferably Ubuntu server edition, though this depends on how we actually get the hosting set up.

If we manage to get someone with a good home connection and a spare box in the attic then basically we are free to do what we want, ie. allow users shell access and run whatever (free as in speech) software we want really. If we are using shared hosting on a hosting provider we really have very little say on this though.

The only main advantage over Freehostia this has (from the planning so far, we only started talking about this 2 days ago so, obviously, we havent got very far yet) is that we plan to give more MySQL databases out, but as i say, we dont know enough about how the project is going to be structured to really compare this to another free hosting service.

In other news, i'd recommend an IRC meeting sometime soon where we can work out how this project will work. I'd prefer to use IRC over Skype as firstly it is free software and secondly it is easier to read back over the decisions made etc., though obviously im not the main player in this and it is really up to Saj and Zdravko.
Well said. The problem is that I still can't find a good way to gather the potential development and start discussing everything! The blog is still under construction by Saj. In the mean time I was given an already setup forum! What should I do now? Saj might improve the dynamics of its blog and turn it into the discussion room. Or should I rely on that forum software to handle all the project development stuff?

[BanskuZ]

I have no clue about the current status of this project, but I would love to help, since I'm kind of bored at the moment. I can code PHP, MySQL, XHTML, CSS and Python (not very experienced yet thought, but I'm learning Python lighting fast!).

[Zdravko]

I have no clue about the current status of this project, but I would love to help, since I'm kind of bored at the moment. I can code PHP, MySQL, XHTML, CSS and Python (not very experienced yet thought).

Cool! We become 3: Saj, you and I :KS

[Zdravko]

We have a forum running: http://www.spocore.com/ubuland/

[bobbocanfly]

Saj's site seems to be a good place to brainstorm ideas and get into the depths of how the hosting is run and a forum a way for people to get back to the devlopers and also talk about suggestions, which are then discussed in depth on the Wiki (saj's site).

I can help out with PHP, XHTML and Python if its needed, though i dont have much experience with talking to MySQL. I'll gladly help out if its needed.

[Zdravko]

Saj's site seems to be a good place to brainstorm ideas and get into the depths of how the hosting is run and a forum a way for people to get back to the devlopers and also talk about suggestions, which are then discussed in depth on the Wiki (saj's site).

I can help out with PHP, XHTML and Python if its needed, though i dont have much experience with talking to MySQL. I'll gladly help out if its needed.
Thanks for the feedback! I will soon open a few threads in the forum about suggestions etc.

[bobbocanfly]

Right, anyone that is interested in chatting in real time about ideas etc. can jump into #ubuland on irc.freenode.net. Hopefully all the developers / anyone else that is interested can have a meeting sometime soon to really get the project going.

[Lostincyberspace]

This is a really great Idea I have experience with server maintenance and set up of cms systems and have experimented with many different of the prominent.

[Zdravko]

This is a really great Idea I have experience with server maintenance and set up of cms systems and have experimented with many different of the prominent.
Just join the #ubuland channel! It is becoming really hot there! Also, follow the forum ;)

[Six_Digits]

This project sounds like a great idea. I could help with any graphics or code for the web portion of things, but not the portal itself.

[Zdravko]

This project sounds like a great idea. I could help with any graphics or code for the web portion of things, but not the portal itself.

I will just repeat what I said a few minutes ago:


Just join the #ubuland channel! It is becoming really hot there! Also, follow the forum ;)

Btw, we were discussing the layout mockups and design of the login pages :)

[Lostincyberspace]

I have no Idea how to use Irc no one I know personally uses it so I cant get.

[Zdravko]

It's ok. Stick to the forums at spocore.com/ubuland :)

[bobbocanfly]

We got a lot done in #ubuland on freenode tonight and got quite a few ideas :D

Planning a meeting for tomorrow night, around 21:00 GMT+1 though others will be idling all day:

13.04.2008
Proposed Agenda:

* Vote on Zend framework, if enough devs are present
* Vote on Hosting, quite a few people have paid for and home based hosting
* Discussion about webspace, database size limits (and bandwidth)
* Whatever else people want to talk about the project

[saj0577]

Big thanks to everyone who turned up. :)
Special notice goes to bobbo, been a great help. Cheers

Saj

[Zdravko]

We got a lot done in #ubuland on freenode tonight and got quite a few ideas :D

Planning a meeting for tomorrow night, around 21:00 GMT+1 though others will be idling all day:

13.04.2008
Proposed Agenda:

* Vote on Zend framework, if enough devs are present
* Vote on Hosting, quite a few people have paid for and home based hosting
* Discussion about webspace, database size limits (and bandwidth)
* Whatever else people want to talk about the project
This project accelerates very fast! I am happy to see such an enthusiasm! :KS

[Zdravko]

Bump!

[Zdravko]

Bump!

[samb0057]

reminds me of..

whatever happened to that project/hosting where he/she offers free blog space exclusively for ubuntu users?

Me? I'm still offering it if you're interested.

[samb0057]

I'd be willing to help with this if someone in charge can let me know some clearer details of exactly what this thing will do.

I can definitely contribute I am an expert at PHP/MySQL and server setup. I designed www.ubuntuhcl.org from scratch and I operate it on an Ubuntu-based dedicated server.

[Zdravko]

I'd be willing to help with this if someone in charge can let me know some clearer details of exactly what this thing will do.

I can definitely contribute I am an expert at PHP/MySQL and server setup. I designed www.ubuntuhcl.org (http://www.ubuntuhcl.org) from scratch and I operate it on an Ubuntu-based dedicated server.
Outstanding! We are in desperate need of people like you! We are in the discussion stage. So far, we made several important decisions about the service. Most importantly, it will be made with foss, it will be free to use etc. Why don't you visit the forum:
http://www.spocore.com/ubuland/
Or, even better - join our hot discussion in the IRC:
#ubuland on irc.freenode.net

[pbhj]

I think I know what you mean - create some space for users to put their stuff with the hope of engendering a spirit of sharing, etc..

Well if this is it, there are lots of places for doing this already and they don't limit themselves to Ubuntu users.

There are great places for photos (like flickr), video (like YouTube/GoogleVids), vector artwork (openclipart.org), raster artwork (deviantart), bookmarks, etc.. Even places for obscure things like colour paletters (colourlovers), ... Or if you want to stay opensource then http://www.opendesktop.org/ pretty much has all your little scripts, wallpapers, extensions, templates and the like covered.

The spread of these services is a little annoying but the programming going into fitting the exact niche for things like flickr makes them far better than using a general repository. They also gather from the entire 'net community. Most are built on opensource to a lesser extent (usually apache servers, usually offer access to an API).

Perhaps I missed the point?

[Zdravko]

I think I know what you mean - create some space for users to put their stuff with the hope of engendering a spirit of sharing, etc..

Yes, you are thinking right.


Well if this is it, there are lots of places for doing this already and they don't limit themselves to Ubuntu users.

At the very beginning of this idea (and thread also), I thought to limit usage to Ubuntu users only. But soon I realized that this is not humane. I changed my mind! Ubuntu means humanity toward all the people! Not just the one who happen to use Ubuntu. That is what makes my project unique and breath-taking - it is free and it is specifically designed (or better said - it will be) to serve humans and not some damn "serious" company.


There are great places for photos, video, vector artwork, raster artwork, bookmarks, etc..

But not a single one for human beings. Ubuntu succeeded because it was universal. It could be used for different purposes equally well without any penalty loss. The same applies here.



Perhaps I missed the point?
Yepp, but it's ok - humans tend to misunderstand simple things. Dunno why :)