Is is illegal to lend an mp3 file to a friend?

[Sprogg2001]

Ok I have a question from one of my kids at a junior school that has me stumped.

"if I have a legal collection of mp3 files (no drm) can I copy this to my friends ipod, (delete it from my machine) and copy it back when done? deleting it from the ipod, would this be legal is it ok to share files without stealing or copying music?"

Its just like lending a cd to a friend which is legal right?

this is so confusing :confused:

Can anyone point me to any documentation advising me on this matter?

[SunnyRabbiera]

as far as the MPAA everything you described is illegal, even if you delete the master files from your computer you are still sharing files...
but me I ignore such factors, I personally don't give a crap anymore as the MPAA is mindbogglingly corrupt.
I say keep the master files, give the copies to your friend and wave your butt in the air at the MPAA...
I know I would

[NightwishFan]

I agree.

[ibuclaw]

The Music Industry is rather strange when it comes to this matter. But the general rule is:

If the music OR file is not owned by the one copying it (ie: You did not right the original material or buy the song copyrights, (something that Michael Jackson did to The Beatles. Now everytime someone buys a Beatles Album, Michael Jackson is just that little bit richer...) But that aside, the point is in the music world there is a difference between owning songs and owning songs.)
Songs you bought from a store are not owned to you, rather you are paying for the rights to listen to it. Whereas original recorded material is rightfully yours and can distribute however you wish with no law or boundary.
Else, then you have to notify the owner OR company with the copyrights to that mp3 and have granted permissions before distributing it across various platforms.

For example, I once recorded a band who wanted to do a cover of "Take a piece of my heart" by "Janis Joplin", but unfortunately we couldn't distribute it since we couldn't afford/weren't going to make the money to pay for licensing the cover of the song on CD.
And I suppose we could be forgiven as being rather thankful to the company. Cos if you aren't careful, you can get sued for just recording a cover of a song without notifying the owner!!! It's mayhem, I know.

Not that it will stop anyone from doing it though. At this point in time Record Companies are rather powerless to do anything with the digital platform of music.

So, on the upside. You can really do whatever you want with the files, because there's more chance of you winning the lottery than there is a company prosecuting you because you lent a song to some mates.

Regards
Iain

[Sprogg2001]

I ahem... would prefer I not encourage the little bar... I mean angels to a wayward path, although I appreciate what your saying .

Also If what your saying is true don't you break the law when you listen to music with friends who have not paid the licence holder for that particular song, your sharing are you not?.

[SunnyRabbiera]

these days it doesn't matter, the MPAA is so corrupt that they want it to be illegal if you have a party and you have that dance party music that you made playing and it is played at a certain decibel.

[TeraDyne]

Also If what your saying is true don't you break the law when you listen to music with friends who have not paid the licence holder for that particular song, your sharing are you not?.

Probably, though only if it's music that requires a license. Personally, I mostly listen to music that's under the CC, so I've given up on trying to figure out what I can and can't do with that other sort of music.

[SunnyRabbiera]

it still doesnt matter, the MPAA is full of criminals, far worse then any pirate out there.
and yet they monitor what music we listen to, go figure...

[LaRoza]

What you say in a circumstance like this is:



I am not a lawyer


If you are a lawyer, say:



I am not your lawyer.


If they persist, charge them for all they have and give a really vague and drawn out answer. Use as much Latin as you remember.

[ibuclaw]

I ahem... would prefer I not encourage the little bar... I mean angels to a wayward path, although I appreciate what your saying .

Also If what your saying is true don't you break the law when you listen to music with friends who have not paid the licence holder for that particular song, your sharing are you not?.

That depends on how much they can twist your words.

For example, when does a "sharing listen with your friends" become a "public broadcast"?

In the eyes of the law, sometimes both can mean the same thing.

[Sprogg2001]

nice common sense replys from all of you. Thank you.

Unfortunately nothing about digital rights makes any sense so I'm still up a creek without a paddle when it comes to explaining the facts to these kids.

What annoys me is that I can seem to find any information on what you explicitly can and cant do.

They threaten to send screaming hordes of lawyers to threaten and bully teenage kids if they step out of line but the MPAA, RIAA, BPI etc... make sure that line is invisible at worst and badly obfuscated at best.

Its a good thing kids don't give a toss else they might actually be confused by this.

[LaRoza]

nice common sense replys from all of you. Thank you.

Unfortunately nothing about digital rights makes any sense so I'm still up a creek without a paddle when it comes to explaining the facts to these kids.

What annoys me is that I can seem to find any information on what you explicitly can and cant do.

They threaten to send screaming hordes of lawyers to threaten andf bully teenage kids if the step out of line but the MPAA, RIAA, BPI etc... make sure that line is invisible at worst and badly obfuscated at best.

Its a good thing kids don't give a toss else they might actually be confused by this.

I think in the future (soon) the nations will see what is happening and do what is logical.

[Mazza558]

To be perfectly honest, the RIAA are way too ideological and not nearly enough practical. What you described, according to common sense, SHOULD be allowed, so go for it. If the overwhelming opinion of a law is that it's useless, you might as well go with the flow.

[ibuclaw]

nice common sense replys from all of you. Thank you.

Unfortunately nothing about digital rights makes any sense so I'm still up a creek without a paddle when it comes to explaining the facts to these kids.

What annoys me is that I can seem to find any information on what you explicitly can and cant do.

They threaten to send screaming hordes of lawyers to threaten and bully teenage kids if they step out of line but the MPAA, RIAA, BPI etc... make sure that line is invisible at worst and badly obfuscated at best.

Its a good thing kids don't give a toss else they might actually be confused by this.

But that is the direct response for not fully preparing for the digital age.

Of, course it was so much easier back when Vinyl and Tape were the thing of the day.

You'd go out and buy the record, and if you continually wanted good quality music, you'd go out and buy the re-issue once every, say 10 years. So the Record Companies have that constant stream of cash coming from the same album years after it was originally released.

Nowadays, since digital means audio can be "preserved" with no loss of quality and stored over the internet for free with unlimited access to download and share with any community. People are starting to stop buying music and start downloading it from sites for free. The cash-pool where the Companies once swam in is slowly becoming drought.

I suppose much of it would come from the thinking "I've paid for it before, why must I pay again?".
Which, in the eyes of the customer seems rightfully justified and true.

I, on the otherhand see a two way relationship. I download albums to demo them before buying. Because I'm an Audiophile and prefer the pure lossless sound of a Vinyl than a horrible compressed mp3.

Even CD's are lossy when compared to Vinyls!:lolflag:

[TeraDyne]

I think in the future (soon) the nations will see what is happening and do what is logical.

HEY! The jails are overly crowded over here as it is. Don't think that way.

Or... Did you mean that they would force the music industry to make the line clear and within reason. If you meant that, well, fat chance of that happening. They'll fight it until it becomes a memory.

[Steveway]

RIAA MPAA etc besides, this depends on the country you live in.
The case you mentioned here is for example still legal in germany, you are allowed to give music and videos you have to your friends and relatives.

[skymera]

You can copy CD's to your PC legally.

And who will or want to know about a few songs?

Nike:
Just do it

[ibuclaw]

RIAA MPAA etc besides, this depends on the country you live in.
The case you mentioned here is for example still legal in germany, you are allowed to give music and videos you have to your friends and relatives.

True, just as P2P and Torrents are legal in Sweden. (Home of PirateBay.org?)

But that's best left for another topic.

[skymera]

Russia have no copyright laws.

and i think The Pirate Bay was/are trying to buy an island thing for $100,000,000 to host their site.

[ibuclaw]

Russia have no copyright laws.

and i think The Pirate Bay was/are trying to buy an island thing for $100,000,000 to host their site.

:lolflag:
That is both strange and funny!

If I were in their position, I would rather buy an eyot from Bjork in Iceland, or an atoll... Whichever one appears first!

Else, I'd use that money to buy a section of the Moon.


But back at hand, despite Laws and Record Companies trying to make an importunate effect on the issue. This won't stop anyone from morally overlooking it.

[corney91]

Russia have no copyright laws.

and i think The Pirate Bay was/are trying to buy an island thing for $100,000,000 to host their site.
IIRC they were going to but couldn't. I can't remember the exact reason though...

To the OP: I think you already have your answer - logically/morally it is OK, legally not. I'd do it:)

[PartisanEntity]

In Germany/Austria it is not illegal to lend/exchange media you own to/with friends and relatives. It should be within your private sphere.

[mozetti]

True, just as P2P and Torrents are legal in Sweden. (Home of PirateBay.org?)

But that's best left for another topic.

Torrents & P2P are legal in the USA, too. Copyright infringement is not legal.

You're making the same mistake the MPAA/RIAA/U.S. Congress and average computer users making: you're confusing the tools used (P2P) and the illegal act.

That's equivalent to saying: CD Burners/DVRs/Cassette Recorders/VCRs are illegal.

[Kernel Sanders]

Easy Answer?

No, it's not illegal.

When you buy an MP3 you are buying a non-transferable licence to use it. Therefore to copy it and use it on more than one device, even if this device is owned by yourself, is a violation of the licence. Equally, to give it to a friend is a violation of the licence.

Now violating the licence is NOT illegal. It just means they can come after you and sue you under the licence if they want, and if your file has made it's way onto hundreds of peoples computers, they can sue you for lost revenue.

This is why FOSS and the GPL are so amazing. None of the headaches and all of the freedom :guitar:

[billgoldberg]

as far as the MPAA everything you described is illegal, even if you delete the master files from your computer you are still sharing files...
but me I ignore such factors, I personally don't give a crap anymore as the MPAA is mindbogglingly corrupt.
I say keep the master files, give the copies to your friend and wave your butt in the air at the MPAA...
I know I would

+1

Sharing stuff is what makes the world goes around.

But on the topic.

You are not saying where you live. I know that here, it's not illegal to share music with friends.

[drascus]

I am not a lawyer but because you don't have control over the MP3's while you are loaning them there is nothing to stop your friend from obtaining a copy. Also because this would technically be considered distribution beyond enjoyment for your own use you would also run into problems. So i believe that from my understanding this would technically be illegal to do. The moral dilemma that you face is, is this a just law ethically. If you decide its not then by all means share your MP3 library. If you decide its a just law then don't share your library and suggest that your friend obtains their own copies of the music. Laws should conform to ethics not the other way around.

[frup]

Copyright is insane.
It is not the artist who looses when you copy music (in fact you could argue that they gain) but the slave driver recording companies who are pretty much obsolete.

Do you hear Authors complaining about libraries or lending a book to a friend (considering a book has less repeat value than a song)?

Do you hear architects complaining about taking photo's of their buildings, other people publishing their work in books, brochures or having facets of their designs copied by other architects? No, they'd be proud of the impact they have made. Most would call it a successful design!

As far as I am aware no other area of art except film and music has been so corrupted by companies. Imagine if picasso had tried to sue anyone who tried to imitate his work or if all the people doing fan art of various anime characters were hunted down by the creators.

The media industries will fail. Most movies and albums published by the major studios are incredibly bad anyway... there is little skill or creativity in what they are attempting to retain a stranglehold of.

[Andrewie]

Even CD's are lossy when compared to Vinyls!:lolflag:

you can't touch Vinyl, I would buy more Vinyl if I could find it