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ankursethi
April 3rd, 2008, 01:01 PM
I've been using Python for small time stuff for about an year. Small stuff means really, really small, supertrivial tasks (getting a webpage and all images and stuff like that). On March 31, my exams ended. I'm now officially out of school :guitar: That means I can spend all my energy on Python.

All my knowledge of Python comes from Guido's tutorial, and a bit of it comes from just poking around in the interpreter. Now I want to master this language. I need a couple of pointers.

1. What is the book to read if I want to learn the complete Python programming language? I've seen good content in Learning Python, but that book is too big. Something concise like the classis the C Programming Language (or the newer the Ruby Programming Language written on the same lines).

2. I'll also need a general book on algorithms and/or data structures. Or an online collection of articles/tutorials. Python specific info would be good, but I have no problem if the book uses C.

Anybody?

pedro_orange
April 3rd, 2008, 01:03 PM
See the FAQs. There was a post on this not long ago.

ghostdog74
April 3rd, 2008, 01:08 PM
I've been using Python for small time stuff for about an year. Small stuff means really, really small, supertrivial tasks (getting a webpage and all images and stuff like that). On March 31, my exams ended. I'm now officially out of school :guitar: That means I can spend all my energy on Python.

learn how to make money instead.



All my knowledge of Python comes from Guido's tutorial, and a bit of it comes from just poking around in the interpreter. Now I want to master this language. I need a couple of pointers.

1. What is the book to read if I want to learn the complete Python programming language? I've seen good content in Learning Python, but that book is too big. Something concise like the classis the C Programming Language (or the newer the Ruby Programming Language written on the same lines).

read the library reference (http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html), and the language reference (http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html). You don't need a book. Save your money for a rainy day.
In fact, if you read the whole web page, yes even during your weekends!..you will be proficient in Python in no time.

CptPicard
April 3rd, 2008, 01:18 PM
References seconded. As to an algorithms/data structures book... Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest, Stein: Introduction to Algorithms. It's so common it should be easy to pick up somewhere used. It's not language specific either, but those sorts of books should not be, either. It gives you all the basic tools you need, and then some.

pmasiar
April 3rd, 2008, 01:31 PM
OP: you need to decide in which area you want to use Python: commandline only, desktop GUI, or web app? Very different way to program interaction with user. Also, you probably should learn SQL databases. And C.

ankursethi
April 3rd, 2008, 03:00 PM
learn how to make money instead
Erm, I'm from India. Things work a bit differently back here. Educations is dirt cheap. You can complete your CS degree for under $5000 (this is the maximum fee, most of the time is even less than $ 3000). In my case, I get free education (since my mom is a government employee). I don't need to learn to make money yet, although I'll start looking for a way to make cash once I actually get into college 3 months later. But here in India, most of the time your parents pay for all your education. Not a bad deal for them, considering the fact that they'll be the ones having fun once I get a job (we have joint families here).


OP: you need to decide in which area you want to use Python: commandline only, desktop GUI, or web app? Very different way to program interaction with user. Also, you probably should learn SQL databases. And C.
None of that right now. I want to learn how to program first. Once I get over the initial hurdle of getting to know the complete language, I'll pick my direction. It's difficult to generalize anything right now (network would be fun, but web looks cooler, and desktop GUI's will be essential for almost any other task than web programming).

I'll look at the pages you mentioned, ghostdog74. I've gone through them before, but I've only read some small parts.

I'll get that book, too CptPicard, if I can find it. Sometimes I wish I lived in Bangalore. You can get anything IT related in Bangalore. Not so in New Delhi. I'll have to dig. Deep.

CptPicard
April 3rd, 2008, 03:10 PM
Trust me, your job will be outsourced to Africa before you can graduate. ;)

Reminds me of a haiku...



My name is Sanjay
IT pro from Bangalore
I have your job now


;)

pmasiar
April 3rd, 2008, 04:40 PM
If you don't know what, just start solving problems. Wiki in my sig has links. PyhonChallenge is good and fun. Join some project - se me sig again :-)

ankursethi
April 4th, 2008, 06:05 AM
Trust me, your job will be outsourced to Africa before you can graduate.
Food for thought, that.


If you don't know what, just start solving problems. Wiki in my sig has links. PyhonChallenge is good and fun. Join some project - se me sig again
I was thinking of solving some archived problems from this website : http://ipsc.ksp.sk/
They've got complex problems, and many of them might require me to use the standard library as well. Or I could just solve these (http://www.spoj.pl/), since they are simpler.

Anyway, thanks :)

LaRoza
April 4th, 2008, 06:44 AM
Erm, I'm from India. Things work a bit differently back here. Educations is dirt cheap. You can complete your CS degree for under $5000 (this is the maximum fee, most of the time is even less than $ 3000). In my case, I get free education (since my mom is a government employee). I don't need to learn to make money yet, although I'll start looking for a way to make cash once I actually get into college 3 months later. But here in India, most of the time your parents pay for all your education. Not a bad deal for them, considering the fact that they'll be the ones having fun once I get a job (we have joint families here).


Wow. I am already $7000 in debt (paying off, good for credit) for my associates degree, and my bachelor's will cost over $20 000. I just got a grant for about $5000 total, and that was good.

I think I will move to India.

/me starts learning Marathi

pmasiar
April 4th, 2008, 01:14 PM
LaRoza, with your education, you won't be working for 5K/year.

CptPicard
April 4th, 2008, 01:32 PM
LaRoza, you'd rather come to Finland... free tuition even for foreigners (! -- might change, we're educating the Chinese atm) and our department would be happy to have you :p (yes you need to get into computing..)

LaRoza
April 4th, 2008, 01:49 PM
LaRoza, you'd rather come to Finland... free tuition even for foreigners (! -- might change, we're educating the Chinese atm) and our department would be happy to have you :p (yes you need to get into computing..)

I am not a foreigner! Foreigners are people who are not USA citizens :-)

Computing? Never heard of it. Just a side hobby.

After getting my Bachelors in Security Management, I will think about law school (I would have to trade in my ethics, but for that much money...why not?) or computer forensics.

Zugzwang
April 4th, 2008, 02:07 PM
LaRoza, you'd rather come to Finland... free tuition even for foreigners (! -- might change, we're educating the Chinese atm) and our department would be happy to have you :p (yes you need to get into computing..)
But isn't it true that on the other hand, wages in Finland are quite low?

Btw, this reminds my of the university I've been to which recently introduced tuition fees, but *not* for non-EU foreigners (which formally had to prove that they didn't had the money to pay but the threshold of monthly income allowed was high enough such that most natives would also have been below it).

Tuna-Fish
April 4th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Instead of doing random problems, just figure something of your own you want to build, and start building it. You'll learn faster, and have more fun that way.

CptPicard
April 4th, 2008, 03:44 PM
But isn't it true that on the other hand, wages in Finland are quite low?

Not really. We're comparable to the rest of the Nordic countries except Norway which in turn is pretty much the most expensive country in the world. :) Google tells me average monthly wage in 2005 was € 2500 before taxes (I remember it was in the news that these days it's about 3000), € 1700 after.

I have a hunch that our uni is going to introduce tuition fees to people from abroad, as the system isn't quite working as I think the idea was... to increase the international student body and to lure people over here. Now we do get a lot of Chinese students, but they just study and move somewhere else to work, which is not exactly the goal... *oops* ;)

themusicwave
April 4th, 2008, 08:42 PM
I never knew education was so cheap in India and parts of the wolrd other than the USA.

I finished my B.S. in Software Engineering last year and now owe about $20,000(US). That's not bad debt considering that each year was about $20,000.

As for the original question I was going to recommend Programming Python it's written by the same guy who wrote Learning Python, but is about 3 times as thick. If you think Learning Python is too long you are going to have fun in college. Many of my text books were about 1,000 pages.

Anyways, if you don't like reading books I suggest just going for it. Think of a program you'd like to build. It doesn't matter if someone else already built it better or whatever, just do it to learn.

Personally I learn by doing. I can read the book cover to cover, but the real learnign doesn't start till my hands hit the keyboard. Perhaps it's the same for you.

I do still read the books though because usually those people know more about the language than I do. They can also teach me not only how to program, but how to do it right.

CptPicard
April 4th, 2008, 08:53 PM
I never knew education was so cheap in India and parts of the wolrd other than the USA.

Well, pretty much everywhere in Europe the cost of education is on the taxpayer, or at least very nearly so. If you do the math on the paycheck numbers I gave in the above post, you'll figure out that absolute cheapness is not so easy to evaluate -- certainly though when you're a 20-year-old, if you've got the ability, your financial situation is not an issue. Of course the underlying assumption is that once you grow up, you'll pay for the education of the generation that comes after you :p

pmasiar
April 5th, 2008, 02:53 AM
Even in USA, there are state universities, where education is much cheaper, especially for in-state students, and community colleges (where you can get credits for first 2 years of college even cheaper, then transfer to state university). In our state, tuition is about 8K/y (paid in part by state's taxpayers), compared with Yale 45K/y it is real bargain :-) Of course you get what you paid for - if you want to pay premium for excellence, compared to just OK.

Also, if you are really smart, you should consider PhD, and PhDs are most often financed by grants (you are paid to study) - and them it is not much important where your undergrad degree comes from, but if you are smart and promising :-)

danbuter
April 5th, 2008, 01:12 PM
Look up Problem Solving with Algorithyms and Data Structures using Python. It was free on python.org, but that website is currently down. Look later and it will probably be there. You will learn a LOT from this. Also, try out Python in a Nutshell.