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OrangeCrate
March 27th, 2008, 09:52 PM
Personally, I don't know RAV TUX from Adam, but in checking his stats, he's been here since 2005, and has close to 7000 posts, as both a member and Moderator. Granted, some of his opinions may have been polarizing, but many, many more have been quite entertaining and helpful.

I for one, would have hoped that some kind of an understanding could have been reached between he and the Forum Council, and I'm sorry, and disappointed to see that his account was closed.

:(

LaRoza
March 27th, 2008, 09:55 PM
We are all sorry to see him go.

Indeed, he was an interesting person, with many interesting posts, and it was a very tough choice for the Forum Council.

They took into account the totality of the circumstances, and their decision was not easily made. I respect their decision.

mips
March 27th, 2008, 10:17 PM
I will mince no words but rarely agreed with Rav Tux, at the same time though I do not believe different opinions to be such a big issue. The bigger these forums get the more restrictive they seem to be though.

I'm sure it must be hard to keep control of such a big forum and as such things are becoming a lot tighter if that makes any sense. The forums as they are today are in no way the same they used to be years ago.

And that is where I will leave it, you form your own opinion.

FuturePilot
March 27th, 2008, 10:20 PM
:cry:
I'll miss you RAV.
It's sad it ended this way.

LaRoza
March 27th, 2008, 10:21 PM
For those that are interested, RAV TUX is a founder of a forum where he is often present and very active. So he isn't "gone", just not on UF.

(The name of this is cafelinux.org)

KiwiNZ
March 27th, 2008, 10:29 PM
This is a matter that is confidential between the Forum Council and Rav Tux.

We ask that you respect that and the dignity of a long time member.

hhhhhx
March 28th, 2008, 12:11 AM
wait?? RAV is gone, when did this happen??

jpeddicord
March 28th, 2008, 01:52 AM
wait?? RAV is gone, when did this happen??

The decision was made today, but as Kiwi stated, it is their business.

We'll miss you Rav, and wish you luck on your ventures.

ubuntu-freak
March 28th, 2008, 02:12 AM
The reason for closing his account was posted in the Resolution Center.

Nathan

hhhhhx
March 28th, 2008, 02:55 AM
The decision was made today....
:(, i never thought that i would see the burnt beens next to RAV's name...


maybe they will give him an alter-ego, like they did for fusica

ThinkBuntu
March 28th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Well, whatever RAV did to get himself banned, it better damn well have been worth it. In my time here, I never saw any behavior that indicated him to be anything but a great contributor and a valuable member of the forums. I knew that, eventually, this forum would cease to be a thriving community, but it's happening well ahead of any schedule I'd anticipated. I know that, often, my conduct here was far more aggravating/polarizing than anything RAV did, so I know that my kind (opiniated geek?) is no longer welcome here.

But good luck promoting Linux. And while this incident will definitely affect my choice of distros in the future once I cross the chasm that separates my current Photoshop-dependent self (web designer) from my hope of eventually doing more software (Python, PHP) development, I hope that some distro, even if it is Ubuntu, can help to bring software like the Adobe Suite to Linux.

ThinkBuntu
March 28th, 2008, 05:01 AM
Wow, I just read over the posts in the resolution center, and I'm floored by this. You guys (the people responsible for this decision, anyway) should really be ashamed of this bastardization of legalism. I have no regrets leaving this place behind.

justin whitaker
March 28th, 2008, 05:13 AM
This is extraordinary....I just can't see how you guys came up with this decision.

Frankly, you made a unilateral decision which goes against the precepts of the distribution: humanity to others.

Since the forum is the public face of Ubuntu, your actions are a black eye for this distribution.

There is a saying that you should choose your enemies well, because you will become like them. Contravening the principles of this project for political or personal reasons is clearly the first step in becoming the Microsoft of Linux.

Congratulations, if they are warranted.

kevdog
March 28th, 2008, 05:32 AM
From my reading in the resolution center its not exactly clear the entire story behind Rav-Tux's forceful exit.

Rav Tux was a great member of the Ubuntu community. I appreciated his often different views on life.

Its a sad day...seems like a personal Ubuntu forums family member has died today. Rav Tux will be missed for sure.:(

molom
March 28th, 2008, 08:38 AM
Has anyone never ever done three wrong things in a forum in 7000 posts. I don't think so. I advise you guys for whatever reason for kicking him out to invite him back in, he has done nothing but good.

hhhhhx
March 28th, 2008, 08:47 AM
Has anyone never ever done three wrong things in a forum in 7000 posts. I don't think so. I advise you guys for whatever reason for kicking him out to invite him back in, he has done nothing but good.we dont know that, only the staff and RAV know :(

sloggerkhan
March 28th, 2008, 08:56 AM
Everything I know about the conflict between certain staff members and RAV does not show Ubuntuforums in a positive light. I really don't know what to say. I'm kinda afraid that if I express my full views on this issue I'll get warned/infracted/banned or something.

wieman01
March 28th, 2008, 09:02 AM
Everything I know about the conflict between certain staff members and RAV does not show Ubuntuforums in a positive light. I really don't know what to say. I'm kinda afraid that if I express my full views on this issue I'll get warned/infracted/banned or something.
Of course you won't be banned or anything. You are free to express your views on the issue. RAV TUX's account wasn't closed because we had an issue with his views or anything like that. This is not a "virtual online" dictatorship. The forum council has its reasons and I personally stand behind it. Given my own posting history and intentions to help the community for instance, don't assume I take this lightly... I also speak for the others. This is an open community and this won't change in future.

Tux Aubrey
March 28th, 2008, 09:14 AM
we dont know that, only the staff and RAV know

True,but still an incomprehensible. One person doesn't make a community but it can certainly be destroyed individual by individual. It is so very disappointing to see these bans (both fuscia and RAV TUX) coming so quickly. And yes, I've been here long enough to know a little of their history.

It's irrelevant, I know, but these two, now former, members breathed a lot of life into these forums and made thousands of thoughtful, intelligent and amusing posts. Clearly they both (for entirely different reasons) ruffled a few feathers. Having worked with RAV TUX on a few projects outside these forums, I can only assume there was a cultural issue or a complete misunderstanding of his intentions and motivations.

I sincerely hope that both fuscia and RAV TUX stay involved with the broader Linux community and continue to make their individual contributions, regardless of how acerbic or naively enthusiastic, idealistic or just plain annoying others may find them.

I love Ubuntu and would never leave these forums by choice but this episode has certainly shaken my faith in those who administer it. So sad!

KiwiNZ
March 28th, 2008, 09:18 AM
People are free to express their feelings. We ask that all respect the feelings of others.

This was not a decision that was taken lightly or in haste. It was carefully considered by all. It was discussed fully and yes agonized over.

Speaking for my self I have huge admiration for Rav Tux and the work he is doing, and for me to part of this decision was hard and saddening indeed. But it was a decision that had to be made. And after very careful consideration and listening to all that the rest of the team had to say I supported the decision.

I hope you all understand that we wished it did not come to this, however we were left in a position that we had to act to remain consistent with decisions made in circumstances similar to this.

molom
March 28th, 2008, 09:25 AM
I really can't see why he would be kicked out. cafelinux for me.

sloggerkhan
March 28th, 2008, 09:27 AM
Well, my perspective is the the the more Arabic/Islamic friendly mods/staff don't care for his more unabashid views on religion and the middle east region, so they constantly harass him, even just for posting fun random threads. I'll bet he's the only person on the forums who gets warned by mods for posting interesting links in the backyard and discussion sections.

Essentially, I view the way RAV gets treated as proof that these forums aren't a place where

You are free to express your views on the issue[s].

Also,


RAV TUX's account wasn't closed because we had an issue with his views or anything like that.
To me, that's actually EXACTLY how this comes across....
I have yet to see it pointed out anywhere that RAV has actually done anything seriously wrong outside of posting in the non-support sections a lot.

And in fact, the way you bring up that it's NOT his views only heightens my belief that it IS somehow something to do with his views.


I hadn't heard about fuscia getting banned.

KiwiNZ
March 28th, 2008, 09:33 AM
This had nothing to do with religious belief.

Also fuscia is not banned he uses a new member alias
"chucky chuckaluck "

wieman01
March 28th, 2008, 09:36 AM
And in fact, the way you bring up that it's NOT his views only heightens my belief that it IS somehow something to do with his views.
Saddens my heart. But if that's what you want to believe, so be it. I cannot prove you the opposite, just give you my word.

Let's move on.

sloggerkhan
March 28th, 2008, 09:39 AM
*Shrugs*
If the staff don't come out and explain straight up what happened and why he's gone, nobody will be able to believe your choice is justified and we'll read into it inappropriate motive. Otherwise you don't come across as representing openness and humanity, but some sort of CIA-esque information control.

I mean, I looked at the resolution center thread, and there's really nothing there.

hhhhhx
March 28th, 2008, 09:40 AM
*Shrugs*
If the staff don't come out and explain straight up what happened and why he's gone, nobody will be able to believe your choice is justified and we'll read into it inappropriate motive. Otherwise you don't come across as representing openness and humanity, but some sort of CIA-esque information control.

I mean, I looked at the resolution center thread, and there's really nothing there.
the problem is that it could be private, and it would not be right to go and post it on the net

KiwiNZ
March 28th, 2008, 09:44 AM
out of respect for Rav Tux I would not make a public statement with out his consent.
If anyone is talking to him he is most welcome to email me
mikee_44@hotmail.com

loell
March 28th, 2008, 10:07 AM
he is still welcome to make another account, right? if he ever goes back?

molom
March 28th, 2008, 11:18 AM
@loell
That doesn't matter. They have taken the account from him. Who will like their 7000 posts taken away from them and not be able to make the same account name. It purely sucks and I'm against this banning. The act of banning people doesn't represent the word 'ubuntu' in anyway its quite distant from the meaning. Some freedom (Sigh)

PmDematagoda
March 28th, 2008, 11:31 AM
@loell
That doesn't matter. They have taken the account from him. Who will like their 7000 posts taken away from them and not be able to make the same account name. It purely sucks and I'm against this banning. The act of banning people doesn't represent the word 'ubuntu' in anyway its quite distant from the meaning. Some freedom (Sigh)

Actually if you consider everything, Ubuntu Forums is the most liberal forum I have ever seen since no other Linux support forum I have seen so far has sections such as the Backyard or Community Cafe that are completely dedicated for discussions(even heated ones) or just to simply have fun and in the cases of many doubts concerning the application of the Ubuntu Forums CoC we have given the benefit of the doubt in favour of the thread rather than against it.

Of course, you may not be persuaded by my reasoning but this is what I've seen.

And Rav Tux, I wish you well in all your future endeavours, good luck.

loell
March 28th, 2008, 11:43 AM
. Who will like their 7000 posts taken away from them and not be able to make the same account name.

honestly? i won't mind taking my post number away from me, you make it sound like post number is very important for you. at the end of the day quality is way more important than quantity, let me ask you, would you knit pick on an account name named RAV TUX as oppose to rav_tux , ravtux, or >ravtux< , if he identifies himself as the same person?

molom
March 28th, 2008, 12:05 PM
@loell
I know what you mean. But post numbers make you feel good about yourself, knowing that you have contributed and helped the community ALOT. And who will like to start a new after being banned for something that was most probably wasn't a big deal. Someone obviously got annoyed at him for some reason and then tried to find any excuse to kick him out. I wouldn't want to rejoin a community after that type of treatment. And why can't the forum staff forgive him and give his account back. Being non-forgiving is not the ubuntu way.

loell
March 28th, 2008, 12:48 PM
@loell
I know what you mean. But post numbers make you feel good about yourself, knowing that you have contributed and helped the community ALOT. .

post numbers make you feel good? ;) , if that is how you perceive post numbers, then okay. but that is actually subjective.




And who will like to start a new after being banned for something that was most probably wasn't a big deal.

lets not anticipate rav tux's next move, who knows if he will register another account or not. just a few days ago, someone made a big deal that a popular somebody left the forum because of an infraction, iirc, but that popular somebody came back with another handle. IMO that someone making a big deal out of somebody popular leaving the forum was making a fool of himself, because he hastily concluded that the popular somebody left the forum for good, but actually came back. are you still following me? ;)

I guess what i'm saying is don't be that someone who quickly concluded something that actually turned out wrong.

rune0077
March 28th, 2008, 01:05 PM
post numbers make you feel good? ;) , if that is how you perceive post numbers, then okay. but that is actually subjective.

lets not anticipate rav tux's next move, who knows if he will register another account or not. just a few days ago, someone made a big deal that a popular somebody left the forum because of an infraction, iirc, but that popular somebody came back with another handle. IMO that someone making a big deal out of somebody popular leaving the forum was making a fool of himself, because he hastily concluded that the popular somebody left the forum for good, but actually came back. are you still following me? ;)

I guess what i'm saying is don't be that someone who quickly concluded something that actually turned out wrong.

To be fair, I don't think you can register a new account once you're banned (correct me if I'm wrong), at least not from the same IP-address. The someone you mentioned was probably not banned, but left of his/hers own free will, which would explain why a new account were possible.

Lord Illidan
March 28th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Fuscia was never banned. He made a large drama that he was going to leave, and then he came back under a new name and a new avatar.

Once a member is banned, then they can't make a new account.

Rav Tux violated the Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) several times, and the FC, (after a long period of deliberation, I might add), decided to deal with him just as they would deal with any other forum member.

molom
March 28th, 2008, 01:19 PM
Whatever. I'm leaving.

loell
March 28th, 2008, 01:20 PM
I see, so this is already set in stone. my bad. :(

loell
March 28th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Whatever. I'm leaving.

bye.. good luck, I for one wish you well.

rune0077
March 28th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Rav Tux violated the Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) several times, and the FC, (after a long period of deliberation, I might add), decided to deal with him just as they would deal with any other forum member.

God knows I've had my own issues with how these forums are being regulated, but this particular statement seems very reasonable to me. Fairness means everyone is treated equal, and that you don't differentiate between one contributor and another. If something would ban a user with 100 bean counts, that same something should also ban a user with 7000 bean counts. Just because you're the mayor of the city, doesn't mean you get to drive under the influence while everyone else gets busted for that offense.

ubuntu-geek
March 28th, 2008, 01:43 PM
You can read my statement on why rav tux account was closed on these forums here.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4598159&postcount=5

There is a judicial procedure that takes place within the forum hierarchy and a general consensus was made by the forum council based on over a year of warnings, discussions, PM's that his account will be closed on these forums. We do not expect everyone to be pleased with our decision however, rav tux is more then welcome to add his account closure to the FC agenda and we can discuss in open why his account was removed and also discuss the many warnings he has had on these forums including why we asked him to step down from from being a moderator last year.

We have made our statement in the resolution center via the link above and now this thread.

I am going close this thread, any new thread will be closed. There are avenues like I mentioned that rav tux can use to appeal his account closure and those processes should be followed. Threads such as these do nothing but incite long threads.

Onyros
March 28th, 2008, 08:02 PM
Yeah, and I will miss fuscia, too.

I don't care that he has a new nickname, the old fuscia is dead.

This only led me to the same conclusion fuscia ('s persona) came to: maybe the UF are not for me, afterall.

sanderella
March 28th, 2008, 08:04 PM
I am sorry Rav Tux has gone, he was one of my favourites. It just shows you have to be really careful what you post. Even one of my threads ended up in the jail, it's easily done.

I hope this gets sorted out, sooner or later, and he is readmitted into the forums. It won't be the same without him.:(

AND Fuscia, too.:(

Dragonbite
March 28th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Yes, recently.

The details of the incident are between the Forum Council and the parties involved.Yes, I gathered that from the related posts I've quickly gone through, and know I do not have enough information on both sides to make any sort of judgement.

Or as I like to say about any conflict (not sure where I've gotten it from, but it works)
In any conflict there are 3 sides:
his
hers
the Truth
And never shall any be identical.:)

fatality_uk
March 28th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Hmm!! Don't know the background, don't really want to know, but I find it odd and sad that Rav has been kicked. I found most of his threads had to be either indulged or ignored (not in a harsh way but in a way that meant just glide over it if you don't have time, they could be addictive). And that was the best way to take them. He had a view on life similar to my own, somewhat at 23 degrees to head on.

I was going to rant, but I guess i'll leave that for another day!

ezphilosophy
March 28th, 2008, 08:11 PM
I've followed the links above and still can't find where he has broke the rules of conduct. I'm sure the UF council has good reason, but I wish the reasons could be cited.

awakatanka
March 28th, 2008, 08:27 PM
What is worst is that you can't talk about it because admins closing the thread. What kind of freedom is there if a community cant talk about this kind of things.

I liked some of his threads and some i din't like but you have a choose if you want to read them our not.

Mods close good threads because someone did some spam threads in the past, and after some complains it was reopend. I think its getting to strickt and to trigger happy on a personal feeling of a mod/admin ( not from tux but someone else)

Scarath
March 28th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Slippery slope towards the MAC forums eh? Hope not

LaRoza
March 28th, 2008, 08:34 PM
What is worst is that you can't talk about it because admins closing the thread. What kind of freedom is there if a community cant talk about this kind of things.

I liked some of his threads and some i din't like but you have a choose if you want to read them our not.

Mods close good threads because someone did some spam threads in the past, and after some complains it was reopend. I think its getting to strickt and to trigger happy on a personal feeling of a mod/admin ( not from tux but someone else)

The Forum Council spent a lot of time making their decision, and it wasn't a light decision. If the parties involved wish to contest that decision, the course of action I believe is to add it to the agenda and bring it before the Forum Council. It was not an action of a single person or mod.

This thread is not supposed to be about such things. If you have a problem, post it in the Resolution Centre. Keep the thread on topic.