Why Winblows?

[Freddy]

Greetings all fellow ubuntuners.

I have a question for those that often refers to Microsoft Windows with Windblows, *******, Micro$oft and so on. Why do you do it? I already know that you all have a dislike for that OS but you are all free from it now, at least if you have chosen to be so.

I's not my intent to be rude and I would prefer this thread not to be a flamewar (on me :)) but to me it just looks like a 14 year old hacker-wannabe that have used Linux for two weeks and want to look "1337" in front of the community have written that post when using words and names like those. I know that this is not always the case but I'm having difficulties taking those posts seriously.

Whats Your take on this?

/Freddy

Edit:/ I have seen some of the folks that disagreeing with me about this subject and that is of course all in their right, I wanted to hear you take on this, thats why I wrote this post. I just wanted to make it clear, that in no shape or form am I asking for some kind of censorship on these forums, I don't want to ban words, thoughts or ideas. But as you have your right to use these types of names, I have ofcourse my right to dislike them but it seems I cant say it enough 'I'm not asking or even want any kind of censorship on these forums!!!''. /Edit.

[NightwishFan]

I do not like Micro Soft. I do not like their operating system and its licenses and bloat. Its lack of ownership and control. However I really do not care much for the slang. In a civilized discussion I would refrain from using any form of slang. Even in a joke its pretty poor taste. My personal opinion of the company will limit me to not approving or purchasing their products, I will not lower myself to berate them though. At least not anymore.

[scragar]

I only use offensive terms towards microsoft when I find it funny(say it's on a topic and there's a work I can work into the name that makes it a pun of some kind or something), or it has particularily annoyed me in some way(example, it configures a network card, then demands the drivers be reinstalled, after reinstalling it the card no longer works, and when I finaly get it to work again XP demands I configure the card once more).

I don't see anything wrong the using M$ to indicate microsoft, but that may be because I'm used to using MS as an abreviation for Multiple Sclerosis.

[SomeGuyDude]

I avoid using those terms because I find, on the whole, that using such epithets undermines the legitimacy of your arguments.

Incidentally I'm also a political writer, so it's probably because I learned that lesson over there. The more polemic you get with your comments, the more you start preaching to the choir and the less the odds are of any progress happening.

[justin whitaker]

I avoid using those terms because I find, on the whole, that using such epithets undermines the legitimacy of your arguments.

Exactly. Anytime anyone uses those in a review, post, or any other form of communication, I immediately disregard what they are saying.

[Tristam Green]

I don't see anything wrong the using M$ to indicate microsoft, but that may be because I'm used to using MS as an abreviation for Multiple Sclerosis.

Well, context would take over in that event. If you're having discourse with someone who has MS (Multiple Sclerosis) about MS (Multiple Sclerosis), there should be no confusion as to what MS means.

If you're talking to techies about MS (Microsoft) again, there should be little confusion.

I can only see the confusion occurring when you speak to an MS (Multiple Sclerosis) patient about the bad business practices of MS (Microsoft).

[Lord Illidan]

I don't take the comments seriously, and I avoid them myself. Microsucks, Micro%oft, Winsucks, Winbloze, they're all rather childish insults. You'll find these comments more on digg.com and slashdot, but hopefully not too much on this forum.

[qazwsx]

Something little bit more creative then: µ$oft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-

[billgoldberg]

I never use those terms.

Without windows I'm pretty sure computers wouldn't be as common as they are now.

[Kevbert]

*******. It takes a while to boot-up, perform a virus check and defrag the hard disk (which have to be performed regularly). Bloatware, because there is so much code required to perform simple tasks.
And Yes, I've been using it since Win 2 was around (when it was similar to Gem and Apple II PCs were just out). It served me well, but now there are better OS about (Ubuntu).

[Freddy]

I do not like Micro Soft. I do not like their operating system and its licenses and bloat.
Well, who does really? Most of us Ubuntu (or any other types of Linux) users probably doesn't like Microsoft all that much (one of the reasons we are here). I would have to argue that Ubuntu comes with bloat as well. I don't have a need for a bluetoothanalyzer amongst other things, I won't figure out names for Ubuntu though :), just build my own Ubuntu with only the 'basesystem' installation and go from there.

I only use offensive terms towards microsoft when I find it funny
...but it's not funny and not even that original.

I avoid using those terms because I find, on the whole, that using such epithets undermines the legitimacy of your arguments.

Incidentally I'm also a political writer, so it's probably because I learned that lesson over there. The more polemic you get with your comments, the more you start preaching to the choir and the less the odds are of any progress happening.
Exactly my point.

I don't take the comments seriously, and I avoid them myself. Microsucks, Micro%oft, Winsucks, Winbloze, they're all rather childish insults. You'll find these comments more on digg.com and slashdot, but hopefully not too much on this forum.
Thats why I posted this thread, I have seen these type of comments more and more on this forum and I wanted it to stop, it starting to look ridiculous.

This of course only my 2 öre (Swedish cents :)), I have no power to force anyone to anything even if I wanted to :).

[CJ56]

I know that *******/Windblows etc are puerile in their way, but one very real (to me) reason I came to Ubuntu was because of Microsoft's naked abuse of their monopolistic position when it came to pricing and launching Vista (especially here in cash cow UK). Nothing new in that, I know, it's just capitalism in action, but this time it was so offensive, so contemptuous of the market which MS (or M$, there you go) serves that I still get angry thinking about it. And up to then I'd been pretty agnostic on the whole Windows thing.

In other words, there's no reason why people shouldn't let off steam against an ugly business like Micro$oft (there, did it again), even if the language they use is childish at times...

[Freddy]

*******. It takes a while to boot-up, perform a virus check and defrag the hard disk (which have to be performed regularly). Bloatware, because there is so much code required to perform simple tasks.
And Yes, I've been using it since Win 2 was around (when it was similar to Gem and Apple II PCs were just out). It served me well, but now there are better OS about (Ubuntu).
Well, yeah we all like Ubuntu, that's not really what this thread is about. I just wondered why people like you have a need to use names like those. I get it, you have a dislike for Windows, you stopped using it and installed Ubuntu, good for you but why the hate?

[BigSilly]

It's just a bit of fun. Lighten up! :)

[Freddy]

It's just a bit of fun. Lighten up! :)
I am lightened :).

I just don't think it looks funny, maybe the first 200 times I saw it I thought it was kind of smart, not that much nowadays though.

[BigSilly]

I am lightened :).

I just don't think it looks funny, maybe the first 200 times I saw it I thought it was kind of smart, not that much nowadays though.

I don't do it all the time myself, but I have been partial to popping in an anti-MS phrase or two. I don't do it to be clever or smart (because it isn't and I'm not), but just because sometimes it amuses me to do so.

I certainly don't mean to drag other decent Ubuntu users down to my obviously low grade level. :lol:

[Freddy]

but just because sometimes it amuses me to do so.
At least I reason I can call good :).

[TransitMan]

Exactly my point.

Thats why I posted this thread, I have seen these type of comments more and more on this forum and I wanted it to stop, it starting to look ridiculous.

This of course only my 2 öre (Swedish cents :)), I have no power to force anyone to anything even if I wanted to :).

Freddy, you need to get a real life man.
People come here or go to other forums and post as they see fit, whether the next person takes offence or not. It is not a popularity contest, nor is it a rightous and holier than though forum.
There are a lot of folks who have issues with MicroSoft and their operating systems, be it bloat or cost thereof. And if they have finally moved away from M$ to a Linux distro and want to vent their opinions, and you don't like it, then by god move on to something else that doesn't offend you or to something more serious and take time away from the computer to what the real world offers.


IMHO, using anything to describe Windows (*******, WinBlows, M$, MicroShaft, The Borg Micro$oft) is just an attempt at some levity and humor.

[aysiu]

They're puns that used to be clever, and some people find them still clever even now. That's why they do it.

[cardinals_fan]

It's great to see so many others taking the high road. Microsoft may create awful products and have unethical business practices, but that does not justify this sort of slander.

[Tomatz]

You are evil how dare you!

:lolflag:

But seriously maby we are all a bit envious that such a crud os can do so well :)

[drascus]

I am not really sure. I think people have anger toward an OS that maybe they were either harmed by or that they feel they wasted money on. That could be part of it anyway. I don't like Windows myself. Its not because of their programming skill or because they want money for their software. That's fine with me. I don't like them because they produce non-free software and that's the extent of it. So that means I equally don't like Mac and Real player and so on. I think some people attack that brand particularly hard because it's the most used and recognized proprietary platform. I think that is a little misguided hatred but people are entitled to their opinions.

[aysiu]

It's great to see so many others taking the high road. Microsoft may create awful products and have unethical business practices, but that does not justify this sort of slander.
I wouldn't call it slander so much as a display of immaturity and the reinforcement of a stereotype about Linux users.

[rickyjones]

I avoid using those terms because I find, on the whole, that using such epithets undermines the legitimacy of your arguments.


I agree wholeheartedly with your comment. If you can't make an argument without resorting to name calling and using childish abbreviations then you have no base of an argument. All these childish abbreviations just show how small and weak minded some members of this community can be. I believe that those that participate in those antics are more damaging than good.

-Richard

[Lord Illidan]

From now on, anyone who denigrates the name of Microsoft shall be issued 15 infraction points and will be permanently banned from this forum. You've been warned.
Dang, it's not April 1st yet?

[aysiu]

I agree wholeheartedly with your comment. If you can't make an argument without resorting to name calling and using childish abbreviations then you have no base of an argument. All these childish abbreviations just show how small and weak minded some members of this community can be. I believe that those that participate in those antics are more damaging than good.

-Richard
In all fairness, though, the name-calling and childish abbreviations don't usually occur during arguments. I see them most often in support threads from new users trying to fit in:
Hi, I'm a new Ubuntu user just trying to get away from Windblows and Microshaft, but I'm having this problem with my sound card... That sort of thing.

[BigSilly]

I certainly don't do it because I'm angry at Microsoft or feel cheated out of money or anything. I dunno, since moving to Ubuntu I feel like I've had the last laugh anyway....

I just have a really low-rent sense of humour. Sorry guys. I didn't mean to cause anyone offence. My feeling was that MS are big enough and ugly enough to be able to deal with it. :)

[rickyjones]

In all fairness, though, the name-calling and childish abbreviations don't usually occur during arguments. I see them most often in support threads from new users trying to fit in: That sort of thing.

Even so, I personally feel as though those kinds of words and antics are better left in your mind as opposed to written on a support forum. I'm very hesitant to respond to those threads because of their poor choice of words (in my opinion).

Alas, people will always have their opinion. I just try to condone a more respectful attitude towards others - even if you dislike the company - it just doesn't seem fair to me to commence name calling and then cry foul when a Microsoft fan responds in the same way.

Thanks,
Richard

[Tuxoid]

I am trying more and more to not insult Windows, regardless of my dislike for proprietary software and how its basically the selling of information that you aren't allowed learn. In the end though, it comes down to accountability towards those who look to the Linux Community in the interest of learning about Linux and Free Software as a whole. It's about looking intelligent towards people who are interested. If you are using Ubuntu and give people advice, you are a cog in the system. That 'system' being the processes towards the acceptance of the Linux Desktop as a major player on the Desktop. No matter how hard you try to avoid being part of the 'system', the Linux outsider will expect you share the views of the Ubuntu Philosophy. He/She doesn't see your separate views. They probably think you chose Ubuntu for its founding principles. Just remember, to a Linux outsider, you will always be seen as a cog in the system. Someone intelligent, respectable, and reasonable. I see too many people on the internet telling people to use Linux without considering why they should. Rather, these people advocating Linux consider why they themselves think others should adopt Linux. Some attractive reasons may be mentioned, but generally, it does not consider the end user watching the video.

Microsoft slanders generally get the people using those slanders, deemed unprofessional and unintelligent by, most importantly, the Linux outsider. It's blatantly biased, and in-your-face. It also suffers the previously stated problem; it is not geared towards the viewer(s). You are just mentioning your problems with Windows and Microsoft or in other cases Apple and Mac OSX. Yes, those problems could be important problems, but you have to engineer your message to be helpful and informative to attract new users. I have my own views what I don't like about Microsoft and Apple, but I now attempt to focus what the user I am talking to needs when I mention Linux to them as an alternative to Microsoft or Apple. An avid Ubuntu activist is a cog in the system, regardless of whether he/she wants to be.

[Freddy]

Freddy, you need to get a real life man.
Haha, you made me laugh, thanks.

As you can see I have been a member of this forum for quite some time and doesn't have that high of a post count, so that must mean I'm not here all the time and you know why? because I'm out there living my real life :).

On a more serious note, I knew that this sort of post would finally come and thats okay, cause as you rightfully said, this isn't a popularity contest. In my opinion though, I know that most of us really care about this OS and we use and love it but I think in the long run these types of comments and naming (not yours) will do more harm than good. I love Linux but it has it's faults. I sometimes use Windows and in some aspects it's good, mostly I'm just feeling 'itchy' when trying to do something with the actual OS itself though but that's not the point.

[Freddy]

From now on, anyone who denigrates the name of Microsoft shall be issued 15 infraction points and will be permanently banned from this forum. You've been warned.
Dang, it's not April 1st yet?
Haha, that might be a tad bit to harsh ;).

[steveneddy]

From now on, anyone who denigrates the name of Microsoft shall be issued 15 infraction points and will be permanently banned from this forum. You've been warned.
Dang, it's not April 1st yet?

So, if I type M$, Winblows, Microsucks or some other remark, I'm banned?

Seems a little frivolous. Don't you think?

This is the Community Cafe.

[vexorian]

Someone needs to move this to recurring discussions.

I prefer to call it Walls, as for M$ that blows, it implies for profit is a bad thing, but RHEL and Canonical both are for profit as well.

[Mr.Auer]

Because.
Ive used computers from the age of three. Thats when Commodore 64 was all the rage. Ive used most popular computers and OSes since: Atari, Amiga, 8088 PCs, Macs - DOS, OS/2, Win 3.1 to 95 to 98 to 2000 to XP. I always used a paid for OS. I bought XP as full price standalone box too...And it was XP that really started to get to me. Lets say OS/2 was superior to Windows in the beginning...

XP did things like activation - a hassle over the phone. XP did things like decide you need to reactivate when I was troubleshooting my PC, looking for the faulty device by disconnecting/connecting them - and all of a sudden XP tells me I need to reactivate, since evidently Ive broken the EULA and moved the OS to a new machine. Then the phone activation fails twice for some reason.

A little later XP corrupts several hundred files on NTFS C: drive, beyond its ability to fix them. This on a clean shutdown/reboot. This was the third time in all this happened. (the harddisk is still in use, 4 years later...Works just fine with ext3!)

This was when I got mad. It was a new install, few weeks old. I had work to do and no time to reinstall XP again. I took a big knife and hacked the CD to pieces. Then I installed Ubuntu, and have loved it ever since. And the problems Ive had have been problems I can fix, since Linux lets me fix them, unlike Windows. Thats why its called WinBlows. For bad support, bad code, bad decisions, suckerpunching longtime paying customers like were pirates. No thanks.

[Freddy]

So, if I type M$, Winblows, Microsucks or some other remark, I'm banned?

Seems a little frivolous. Don't you think?

This is the Community Cafe.
That obviously was a joke ;-).

[steveneddy]

That obviously was a joke ;-).

... :-? I don't get it .....

[prshah]

I have a question for those that often refers to Microsoft Windows with Windblows, *******, Micro$oft and so on. Why do you do it?

I often worry that MS will bring an irrational and not entirely justified legal action against me if I use their trademarked names/identities/anything, especially if I am critical of them.

They may not do it now, but maybe if I become rich and famous...

I don't like leaving THAT door open to THEM.

Considering the more UNRESTRICTIVE license that GPL gives, I NEVER say:

Linsux, uBUMtu, UaBumToo, etc etc, I'm happy with Ubuntu Linux.

EDIT: Dam*, just said what I said I won't say...

[cajunbulldog]

My reasons are very simple.I am dog tired of working on my computer to keep it stable and junk free. Windows helps me feed my kids,but I have no desire for it to run on my personal pc anymore.:)

[miggols99]

I don't use words like that because it's so immature. Please don't pick on us 14 year olds :)

[herbster]

I never use those terms.

Without windows I'm pretty sure computers wouldn't be as common as they are now.

Absolutely, and these moronic terms are used out of an anti-Microsoft mentality that usually stems from serious ignorance of computer history, let alone MS.

But then, it's always cool to hate what's popular/successful.

[anantshri]

well i use the form windoz to exactly give the users what the want and at the same time avoiding using a copyrighted word.

that's my opinion,

[Tristam Green]

well i use the form windoz to exactly give the users what the want and at the same time avoiding using a copyrighted word.

that's my opinion,

Windows is not a copyrighted word, it's merely a registered trademark of the Microsoft Corporation.

http://www.microsoft.com/library/toolbar/3.0/trademarks/en-us.mspx#E6

[ODF]

I never use those terms.

Without windows I'm pretty sure computers wouldn't be as common as they are now.

Well said, windows isn't bad ... Linux is more than great but not ready for the other 95% of the market share like windows do greatly.

[aysiu]

Without Windows, I'm pretty sure computers would be as common as they are now, but another company would have won out a monopoly instead of Microsoft.

[NightwishFan]

I believe if Linux quickly elevates in market share it will become way better supported and thus will become very ready for 95% of it.

[Calash]

It was funny 5 years ago, now it's just annoying. I do not outright ignore posts with the slang in them, but I do give them less credit than others.

[igknighted]

I wouldn't call it slander so much as a display of immaturity and the reinforcement of a stereotype about Linux users.

This is the heart of the issue. I could care less what any user here thinks of microsoft or if they will ever use their products again... but this is not your personal blog or something private like that. This is a support channel official recognized by Ubuntu for support. When you post here, you are representing Ubuntu and its users. I think that gives you a resposibility to carefully consider how you present yourself, as a representative of that community.

That's great that you hate microsoft, they aren't exactly a particularly moral company in many ways. But that view isn't shared by all users, and its a common negative stereotype of linux users. I (and many others) came to linux because of its promise and the challenge, and were hardly "driven away" from windows. So lets be open, lets act like adults, and lets keep the "M$" crap to cafe/backyard threads where we are discussing subjectively microsoft's practices, and not support threads where we come off as juvenille punks to new users.

[NightwishFan]

True. Derogatory slang is out of place just about anywhere, and especially here.

[vexorian]

Absolutely, and these moronic terms are used out of an anti-Microsoft mentality that usually stems from serious ignorance of computer history, let alone MS.

But then, it's always cool to hate what's popular/successful.
Yeah, the computer world surely needed Bill Gates to buy DOS so he can resell it with a higher cost and then remake all of apple's features from scratch, implementing them as slowly as heck taking 2 year periods to reimplement a single one.

Without MS there wouldn't be innovation!

[herbster]

Yeah, the computer world surely needed Bill Gates to buy DOS so he can resell it with a higher cost and then remake all of apple's features from scratch, implementing them as slowly as heck taking 2 year periods to reimplement a single one.

Oy vey, talk about missing the point.


Without MS there wouldn't be innovation!

That's exactly what I was trying to say!

[IsawSp4rks]

Innovation existed well before MS took over the computing world. People who say this don't know the history of computing and especially that of the homebrew scene of 70s. The same scene where Bill Gates essentially stole BASIC from.

MS mostly do not innovate, they purchase technologies and companies who innovate.

[PartisanEntity]

I do not use such terms, but I don't mind at all when they are used here.

This is a community forum and not a university or the senate. Most of us, when we press 'Submit Reply' are not writing official memorandums of understanding or legal edicts. We're making 'posts'.

What I am saying is, some people take this too seriously and are blowing it out of proportion. I would agree if we were discussing the use of such terms in official communiques. But again, we are on a community forum.

Lighten up and buy some humour :)

[vexorian]

Oy vey, talk about missing the point.

Some people were implying we owe the current computer world to MS, but from my perspective, MS' only effect into the computer world was:
- Delaying innovation.
- Enhancing technology costs.

[Freddy]

<snip>Lighten up and buy some humour :)
I guess this was directed at me and I have to respond (yet again) to this.

I am "lighten" and I have already bought myself some humor years ago but if you still think names like Micro$oft, Winblows and such is good humor perhaps you should try to "buy" some for yourself ;). I never wanted or asked for the mods of UF to forbid these types of names, I merely asked why people still feel the need to use them as I don't see that types of comments smart or funny anymore.

I'm certainly no advocate for Windows or Microsoft, I dislike that company and their methods just as much as the next one but when I see people using them I'm just having a hard time taking them seriously.

Btw the greatest OS of all time is AmigaOS they were the real innovators. Amiga Inc please stop trying to revive AmigaOS that won't work just release your code under GPL so we can start to build the perfect OS :).

[aysiu]

These nicknames for Windows and Microsoft were probably funny the first 450 times they were used. I'm way past considering them humorous at this point. I'm glad you're able to still get a kick out of them, PartisanEntity.

[kamaboko]

Some people were implying we owe the current computer world to MS, but from my perspective, MS' only effect into the computer world was:
- Delaying innovation.
- Enhancing technology costs.


Pulleeezzz. If you had a business in the mid 80's you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement. Innovation is measured in many ways, and the innovation that was brought to our family business by the PC running MS products was incredible.

MS has "reduced" technology costs.

[phrostbyte]

I don't use them myself but I have no problems with other people using them. I prefer calling Microsoft by their stock ticker, MSFT.

[NightwishFan]

I spell it like this: Micro Soft. It is not intended to be disrespectful it just is how I say it in my head, with two words.

[ntowakbh]

Most of the time, if I read a name like that for Microsoft or Windows, I disregard the post as having little to no importance. I don't like Windows, but I'm not going to degrade it by saying "Winblows."

By the way, I, in a way, took offense to part of the first post, while it wasn't meant as such, I'm fourteen, or I was until a couple weeks ago, but still, you shouldn't stereotype by age...

[zetetic]

Greetings all fellow ubuntuners.

I have a question for those that often refers to Microsoft Windows with Windblows, *******, Micro$oft and so on. Why do you do it? I already know that you all have a dislike for that OS but you are all free from it now, at least if you have chosen to be so.

I's not my intent to be rude and I would prefer this thread not to be a flamewar (on me :)) but to me it just looks like a 14 year old hacker-wannabe that have used Linux for two weeks and want to look "1337" in front of the community have written that post when using words and names like those. I know that this is not always the case but I'm having difficulties taking those posts seriously.

Whats Your take on this?

/Freddy

Read a Microsoft EULA and then ask again.

Read contracts Microsoft has made with computer distributors and then ask again.

and the list could go on and on...

[Tuxoid]

I think these words should be banned from the board. New users of Ubuntu will always look up to established users as ambassadors of a philosophy. I am scared that users will be turned off from Ubuntu and opt for Windows. For many people in the western, buying software that is proprietary is considered the norm, while software that is free of charge, and respect your freedoms, is not considered the norm. Linux has bloomed very nicely in the third-world, in embedded devices, in super-computers, and in server environments. The technology for the desktop is there, and very much ready, but we need to realize what we're getting ourselves into when we opt for the Ubuntu distro. While you may have decided to opt for it because of shipit, to escape the possibility of running Vista (that was my fear), or whatever it was, you are an ambassador. You may not see your situation as such, but you are going to be seen as such to new users that you help. To ignore your ambassador stance.

If you cannot find the good in Windows, and the bad in Linux, many will feel you are any non-credible source of information. I do not agree with proprietary software, but besides morals, XP was a great OS. Although I believe in the democracy given to the user under GPL software, with the user-base of Linux still being highly technical and shifting very, very slowly to a less technical user-base, ease-of-use is in some cases is lacking due to these technical users lacking the need for a non-technical OS (in this case, majority rules).

Yes, Windows and Microsoft are immoral, but if you cannot control what you say to potential patron-style users, they won't even bother using Ubuntu in the long-term. That also means they may never understand the moral purpose of free software. I could see a great advantage in users being able work the free software system in means of democracy and understanding one day why we dislike proprietary software.

Spouting out M$ or Winblows to show new users that Microsoft is wrong is much like trying to teach a young child the implications of murder. They are not ready to understand such ideas at a deep level. It effectively scares the child. You have learned why you feel you should hate Windows and feel strongly about your opinions (and there's nothing wrong with that).

These new users may already feel far away from home being in Linux. I sure as heck did and so did my dad who I might add is not technical at all. An Ubuntu user is not just another Linux user. He/She is an ambassador.

[The Titan]

This post actually aggravates me a little bit, I do agree that this is immature and stupid... but who cares... Are you losing sleep at night because someone used the spelling "*******"... they do it because they want to and that reason enough, This in no way should affect your life at all and if you don't like it... tough.


I have seen these type of comments more and more on this forum and I wanted it to stop, it starting to look ridiculous.
too friggin bad man, it wont... If you really hate it this much go to a Microsoft forum... and i bet it's scattered around there too..


Freddy, you need to get a real life man.
Much agreed.......
I mean no offence to you freddy, honestly i don't.

Edit: tuxoid, You make some VERY good and respectable points in your post, but where does anyone earn the right to say "You can't say this because we don't like it. It's not offensive, we just don't like it". It does not make sense.

Sincerely,
Dan

[EdThaSlayer]

I guess we make these little nicknames because there are some people who make fun of Linux using absurd nicknames. It also creates a "community spirit of anti-MS". These nicknames don't bother me at all though. :D
If those words bother you, why don't you make some fancy greasemonkey script(if you use Firefox) and make sure those words appear as Microsoft and Windows instead of Micro$oft and Windblows?

[warbread]

Greetings all fellow ubuntuners.

I have a question for those that often refers to Microsoft Windows with Windblows, *******, Micro$oft and so on. Why do you do it? I already know that you all have a dislike for that OS but you are all free from it now, at least if you have chosen to be so.

I's not my intent to be rude and I would prefer this thread not to be a flamewar (on me :)) but to me it just looks like a 14 year old hacker-wannabe that have used Linux for two weeks and want to look "1337" in front of the community have written that post when using words and names like those. I know that this is not always the case but I'm having difficulties taking those posts seriously.

Whats Your take on this?

/Freddy

If you take a survey of why people around here use Linux, you'd see on oft recurring answer: frustration with the mainstream OSes. This frustration will bubble up and manifest as Winblowz, M$ or another derogatory name. Is that bad? To some, it seems so.

Of course, there is no single answer. There are some who just want to fit in. There are some who are childish. There are some who find it funny. There are some who are angry. Most prominently, in my opinion, is the feeling of solidarity it fosters between people who hate Microsoft and/or Windows for whatever reason. It creates an IN crowd by creating an OUT crowd.

It's interesting (to me, at least) to note that this isn't new to operating systems or people on the Internet. This idea goes back thousands of years and is deeply ingrained in languages and cultures throughout the world. The Russian word for 'a German person', for instance, translates to something like 'a mute person' simply because during some years of interaction between the two countries, Russians were frustrated that the incoming German population didn't speak Russian. That's no justification, but it's important to understand that there is more to the psychology of this "name calling" than just immaturity, or whatever else folks in here want to write it off as.

Maybe it's a bad thing and maybe it doesn't matter. I don't know, and I don't particularly care.

[The Titan]

If you take a survey of why people around here use Linux, you'd see on oft recurring answer: frustration with the mainstream OSes. This frustration will bubble up and manifest as Winblowz, M$ or another derogatory name. Is that bad? To some, it seems so.

Of course, there is no single answer. There are some who just want to fit in. There are some who are childish. There are some who find it funny. There are some who are angry. Most prominently, in my opinion, is the feeling of solidarity it fosters between people who hate Microsoft and/or Windows for whatever reason. It creates an IN crowd by creating an OUT crowd.

It's interesting (to me, at least) to note that this isn't new to operating systems or people on the Internet. This idea goes back thousands of years and is deeply ingrained in languages and cultures throughout the world. The Russian word for 'a German person', for instance, translates to something like 'a mute person' simply because during some years of interaction between the two countries, Russians were frustrated that the incoming German population didn't speak Russian. That's no justification, but it's important to understand that there is more to the psychology of this "name calling" than just immaturity, or whatever else folks in here want to write it off as.

Maybe it's a bad thing and maybe it doesn't matter. I don't know, and I don't particularly care.
Amen

[Tuxoid]

This post actually aggravates me a little bit, I do agree that this is immature and stupid... but who cares... Are you losing sleep at night because someone used the spelling "*******"... they do it because they want to and that reason enough, This in no way should affect your life at all and if you don't like it... tough.
too friggin bad man, it wont... If you really hate it this much go to a Microsoft forum... and i bet it's scattered around there too..
Much agreed.......
I mean no offence to you freddy, honestly i don't.

Edit: tuxoid, You make some VERY good and respectable points in your post, but where does anyone earn the right to say "You can't say this because we don't like it. It's not offensive, we just don't like it". It does not make sense.

Sincerely,
Dan

People don't like a biased opinion. I have earned no such right to dictate what people say. I am simply concerned about how new, non-technical users will view these statements. If people see a word like "Winblows", it will look like a one-sided view. We've gotten used to this stuff, but users that are so to say... "fresh off the disc" will not see this as simply immature, it will raise a red flag with their confidence in their new system. They could question the integrity of the users. They may start to believe that these people are simply die-hard loyalists without any real purpose to be so loyal to their OS. they will be blinded. This possibility can only be avoided with banning or at least censorship of such words on the forums.

I have a feeling that someone may bring up the statement "free as in freedom" which sounds to me like "I can do whatever I want on the forums!", when put in the context of the forums. But if you are going to say stuff along the lines of "Winblows", you are denying new users the ability to see the freedoms they can be given, just because, nine times out of ten, those users will dimish you down to die-hard loyalists, and may end up going back to Windows in time.

[vexorian]

Blah, ubuntu is not perfect and all, I would never call windows winblows. But XP is not a great OS. Windows, does blow, in many ways. Let's forget about it being proprietary, that was not the reason I ran away from it, I stopped using windows, because the thing is a treacharious software of doom that loves to backstab you when you least expect to. I was personally tired of all the times I had to fix silly things in windows, during a day in which I had to do my homework in the PC, and I have grown a serious resentment towards windows' "recovery console", it was horrible...

So, in ubuntu I had to use the terminal during installation, but I only had to install it once! I don't get why windows eventually feels like requiring you to reinstall it entirely, I was also tired by the fact it would just run software automatically everytime someone put a virused flash disk on it. So, I left it for good.

This said, I just cannot go around and tell people that windows XP is a decent OS, just to appear unbiased, this is mostly for the reason I would feel like lying, so call me unworthy of my ambassador status, I do not think windows is a good OS. I would not go to windows tech forums to post my negative opinion about windows, and I would not do it unless I am asked about it. This said, if some new user asked me about an opinion, I would prefer him to think I am lying or being a zealot than actually lie to him and tell him I think windows is a reliable piece of software.


Pulleeezzz. If you had a business in the mid 80's you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement. Innovation is measured in many ways, and the innovation that was brought to our family business by the PC running MS products was incredible.

MS has "reduced" technology costs.
So, I wasn't around in the 80s, but I was in the 90s, I am yet to see software that is 100% or even 20% MS' invention and was actually useful, all of the things I acknowledge as MS success, including windows, DOS, office and ,net are copies or things they bought from someone else and sold higher. Not to mention they do make PCs more expensive.

[LaRoza]

You should see what Ballmer calls Linux...

[The Titan]

People don't like a biased opinion. I have earned no such right to dictate what people say. I am simply concerned about how new, non-technical users will view these statements. If people see a word like "Winblows", it will look like a one-sided view. We've gotten used to this stuff, but users that are so to say... "fresh off the disc" will not see this as simply immature, it will raise a red flag with their confidence in their new system. They could question the integrity of the users. They may start to believe that these people are simply die-hard loyalists without any real purpose to be so loyal to their OS. they will be blinded. This possibility can only be avoided with banning or at least censorship of such words on the forums.

I have a feeling that someone may bring up the statement "free as in freedom" which sounds to me like "I can do whatever I want on the forums!", when put in the context of the forums. But if you are going to say stuff along the lines of "Winblows", you are denying new users the ability to see the freedoms they can be given, just because, nine times out of ten, those users will dimish you down to die-hard loyalists, and may end up going back to Windows in time.
I wasnt trying to be mean or anything but really, ban or censor these words... We should censor "cake" and "doughnut" because we wouldn't want new users to get fat or anything.

[Tuxoid]

I wasnt trying to be mean or anything but really, ban or censor these words... We should censor "cake" and "doughnut" because we wouldn't want new users to get fat or anything.

The Ubuntu philosophy is about the adoption of Linux (not weight loss). With such an argument against mine, it makes me believe you didn't really think about my argument, even though, I have been tolerant and did my best to respect the possibility that the counter opinion may be valid.

I don't see much effort on your part to contribute to this debate. I'm just feeling a sense of blind anger at my views while I am as clear as I can and expressing a detailed viewpoint. I am debating on the side of widespread Linux adoption and simply expressing my views on what needs to be done to ensure that. I am not calling names or mocking anyone.

[cardinals_fan]

You should see what Ballmer calls Linux...
A cancer, right?

[Nethippy]

I have a Windows XP partition so I can run some old games I still play now and then, language learning software, and for various utilities that don't have a Linux equivalent.

[The Titan]

The Ubuntu philosophy is about the adoption of Linux (not weight loss). With such an argument against mine, it makes me believe you didn't really think about my argument, even though, I have been tolerant and did my best to respect the possibility that the counter opinion may be valid.

I don't see much effort on your part to contribute to this debate. I'm just feeling a sense of blind anger at my views while I am as clear as I can and expressing a detailed viewpoint. I am debating on the side of widespread Linux adoption and simply expressing my views on what needs to be done to ensure that. I am not calling names or mocking anyone.
I read your argument just fine, the only part of your opinion that i disagreed with was the fact that these words should be censored or banned and i made an analogy to demonstrate why i felt that this was so ridiculous. God forbid i have an opinion...

Oh, and "blind" anger, that's ridiculous too. anger yes, blind anger no. I made it very clear what i was angry about and why i was angry about it.

[aysiu]

I read your argument just fine, the only part of your opinion that i disagreed with was the fact that these words should be censored or banned and i made an analogy to demonstrate why i felt that this was so ridiculous. God forbid i have an opinion... They're not going to be censored or banned. They're just disapproved of and counterproductive.

[The Titan]

They're not going to be censored or banned. They're just disapproved of and counterproductive.
I completely agree, but it would be really lame (for lack of a better term) to censor things that aren't offensive and that is what tuxor is proposing, that ubuntuforums censors those words.... I'm American, and i know there is a lot of people on these forums that aren't. But Americans get "Free Speech" beaten into there heads from the moment that they can comprehend it until they die and it has worked because it's good policy. I under no terms believe in most of the "Amercan Way" but i do believe in free speech and i'm passionate about it.

[saulgoode]

I have a feeling that someone may bring up the statement "free as in freedom" which sounds to me like "I can do whatever I want on the forums!", when put in the context of the forums. But if you are going to say stuff along the lines of "Winblows", you are denying new users the ability to see the freedoms they can be given, just because, nine times out of ten, those users will dimish you down to die-hard loyalists, and may end up going back to Windows in time.

I have a feeling that they may have encountered such phrases before (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&as_qdr=all&q=winblows+OR+*******+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.msfn .org%2F&btnG=Search).

[Tuxoid]

I read your argument just fine, the only part of your opinion that i disagreed with was the fact that these words should be censored or banned and i made an analogy to demonstrate why i felt that this was so ridiculous. God forbid i have an opinion...

Oh, and "blind" anger, that's ridiculous too. anger yes, blind anger no. I made it very clear what i was angry about and why i was angry about it.


I completely agree, but it would be really lame (for lack of a better term) to censor things that aren't offensive and that is what tuxor is proposing, that ubuntuforums censors those words.... I'm American, and i know there is a lot of people on these forums that aren't. But Americans get "Free Speech" beaten into there heads from the moment that they can comprehend it until they die and it has worked because it's good policy. I under no terms believe in most of the "Amercan Way" but i do believe in free speech and i'm passionate about it.

Yes, my calling your arguments out as blind anger is going to far, I agree with free speech to a high extent. Free speech is an extensively broad right, though. This is why restraint of free speech in certain situations is productive.

For instance, we are not allowed to tell users here on the ubuntuforums to 'rtfm' or 'jfgi'. It is counter-active to the goals of the Ubuntu Project if you are just told to 'rtfm'.

To give analogy, it would be counter-progressive for Disney to make a very violent horror movie, as this would ruin their name as a familiy-friendly movie studio, but they have the free speech to do so. It is about creating the right amount of restrain. To little restraint will hurt progression to an end goal, To much will make those people that are part of that progression feel dominated by authority.

Titan, I am in no way interested in personally attacking you. I am trying to keep inside the grounds of the debate. You, in fact may be right. I am just very concerned about the adoption of Linux on the desktop. I don't want efforts towards widespread Linux adoption to be discouraged by the chance of users running back to Windows.

[The Titan]

I never meant to attack you either tuxor, matter of fact i said that. I feel your an intellectual that is just very passionate and i was just trying to debate also... I hope there is no hard feelings after this.

[Freddy]

You should see what Ballmer calls Linux...
but Ballmer is a nutcase though. I honestly believe he has lost his mind a long time ago, everything he says is just wind blowing straight through, from hear to hear :).

[articpenguin]

ballmer lost his mind here =)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xJ3y_QopcuQ

[vexorian]

but Ballmer is a nutcase though. I honestly believe he has lost his mind a long time ago, everything he says is just wind blowing straight through, from hear to hear :).
In all seriousness, I think if there is someone who can kill Microsoft, it is Ballmer.

[IsawSp4rks]

Pulleeezzz. If you had a business in the mid 80's you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement. Innovation is measured in many ways, and the innovation that was brought to our family business by the PC running MS products was incredible.

MS has "reduced" technology costs.

I think you're just making that up. I was around in the 80s and was also a pretty heavy computer user.

MS had one main product in the early 80s and that was MS DOS. While IBM's PC DOS (and derivatives sold under other names by other hardware vendors) was almost always the same price, MS DOS increased in price with every version update. So, for example, MS DOS 3.0 was available originally for around $60, but MS DOS 5.0 (admittedly released in 1991) was $99 for the 'upgrade' and $149 for the standalone. However, in between there were three other DOS releases, 3.3, 4.0 and 4.01 and there was a steady price increase along the way to match.

Later on, aside from DOS MS also had LanManager and Windows NT for corporate networking but LanManager always fell to Novell Netware both in terms of performance and price.

What MS had done successfully is to engender the idea that people have to pay progressively more for each version 'upgrade' and so the long view is that they've made other vendors (who don't follow that regime) seem cheaper over time.

[caravel]

I use "M$" sometimes but not the others as I find them immature. I'm beginning to think M$ is immature sounding now as well. Linux is often seen by certain groups as something that was started as a rebellion against M$, oops I mean MS. I think it's important that the Linux community as a whole get's beyond slandering windows, because it's not as if they need to as it's obvious which OS is the superior one.