DELL's post Ubuntu 8.04 LTS dilemas...... what to do?

[madjr]

What should DELL do with post LTS releases ?

We all know Hardy is the LTS release (less bleeding edge stuff, less bugs and higher stability... we hope)

so should DELL change to Ubuntu 8.10 (more bleeding edge, more buggy) once it's out?

or stick with 8.04 LTS and it's service packs (upgrading gnome, etc.)?

Don't take this decision slightly.

Many other mayor hardware vendors are not supporting Ubuntu at this time and prefer to use SUSE (Lenovo, HP, etc)


So, should the LTS be focused on OEMS?

is the 6 month release cycle affecting the OEMS?


Ubuntu focuses too much on the latest release instead of the LTS.....

Should we focus more on the LTS?


Once 8.10 is out, hardy will not be very attractive anymore...

what can we do to make the LTS not look "old" compared to the latest release?

release the LTS service packs at same time as 8.10?

These are BIG questions...

[Barrucadu]

I think, after 8.10 is released, Dell should offer customers a choice when buying a computer, and take care to explain that 8.04 is a Long-Term Support release - which means that they will get updates for longer, whereas 8.10 is just a regular release.

I would say that the 6-month release cycle is harming OEMs, as just as they are used to installing and configuring Ubuntu for the hardware they use, a new version with it's own hardware bugs comes out. Plus, everyone will want the latest version, so any older ubuntu systems the OEM has will either need to be upgraded to the newest version or just scrapped.

I can't say about focusing on the LTS, as I always upgrade immediately, sometimes before when the beta comes out. However, I think the LTS should recieve just as much support throughout it's lifetime as it did in the beginning - the level of support should be constant.

The LTS will not 'look old' compared to the newer versions, as it will have more updates, and so will still be pretty up to date.

[Erik Trybom]

They could offer both versions. 8.10 for the home users who want the latest and 8.04 for corporate customers who prefer stability over novelty.

But I think 8.10 will do just fine in most cases. Despite being new and perhaps a little buggy, it will be a final release and not a beta. No released Ubuntu version should have too many bugs to be used by a regular desktop user - if that turns out to be the case, then it should be considered a failure.

I don't believe in recommending your customers anything but the latest stable release. The LTS should be for customers with special needs, i.e. very high stability requirements.

[hellmet]

8.10 for the Inspiron, and 8.04 for the Vostro series?

[NilsHG]

they should stay up to date with the newest release.
dell offers new system configurations on a regular basis and thus it is no more a hassel to keep the software up to date than to apply old software to new hardware.

[rudlavibizon]

As far as I know Dell is currently targeting "enthusiasts", so they should go definitely with the latest version possible.

[Raven_Oscar]

I agree with Erik Trybom. Customers should decide which version is more suitable for them. So Dell should provide them with this option. Or they have to use 8.10 for SOHO and 8.4 for enterprise and server segments.

[PartisanEntity]

IMO, unless you work for Dell madjr, your questions are very specific yet completely beyond anyones control here. You ask "should Dell" and "should we". I don't understand the "should" part. How will our discussion here affect Dell?

[rudihawk]

I reckon that Dell should stick with the LTS version. Most users would just like a PC that works. If they would like the bleeding edge stuff, they should download 8.10 themselves :)

[LaRoza]

What should DELL do with post LTS releases ?

We all know Hardy is the LTS release (less bleeding edge stuff, less bugs and higher stability... we hope)


No, LTS is just long term support.

I installed the Beta on my laptop, and I can assure you, it is bleeding edge.

On my laptop:

* Feisty : DVD drive didn't work
* Gutsy : Everything worked, except Compiz (Intel blacklist)
* Hardy Beta : Everything works and and for the first time, I thought Ubuntu was pretty.

I am entirely impressed with Hardy. Ubuntu is just going up.

(I am not going to minimize the importance of getting the right hardware, or that Ubuntu doesn't need more RAM to do the cool stuff. Heron doesn't need to be heavy, one can do a base install and build up as one can always do)

For Dell, I don't think it matters. It would be trivial to upgrade or reinstall a higher version. This isn't Windows. I just recently installed 6.06 on my other notebook (G3 PowerPC).

[rickyjones]

I think that they should use the LTS release as the default option until the next LTS. However if a customer chooses to, they should be able to upgrade.

-Richard

[MattSMiddleton]

I think that they should use the LTS release as the default option until the next LTS. However if a customer chooses to, they should be able to upgrade.

-Richard

Exactly what I was thinking.

[aaaantoine]

When you configure your laptop, you should be able to choose the LTS version and the latest version as options.

If the hardware is only supported on a later kernel revision than what's available in the LTS release, Dell probably should not waste resources on backporting the drivers to the LTS kernel (and in this case, offer the latest kernel as the only option).

[aysiu]

I think you're confused (and your poll results meaningless, since you didn't put in the first option that the LTS will probably be buggy).

LTSes are not any stabler than normal releases. Dapper was buggy as hell for the first month and a half of its release (just like most Ubuntu releases). For more information, read LTS doesn’t stand for “stabler than Feisty” (http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2007/09/06/lts-doesnt-stand-for-stabler-than-feisty/), which could easily be retitled LTS doesn’t stand for “stabler than Gutsy” and still be true.

Whether Dell should sell 8.10-preinstalled laptops when 8.10 comes out or not depends on whether or not Dell can get 8.10 to work well with its laptops at that time.

If there's any kind of general policy Dell should adopt with regard to releases, it should be to wait at least a month after any new release (including LTS ones) in order to wait for the major bugs to get worked out of them.

[hkgonra]

I think Dell should install the LTS version until the next LTS version comes out , but I also think they should make sure they have drivers ready on their website for each 6-month release as soon as the release is out of beta.

[LaRoza]

(I didn't vote in the poll, it is meaningless)

I would also like to point out that Ubuntu is free to get so in my opinion, Dell doesn't need to put anything on their systems. Just make sure it works with Ubuntu, and if needed, make a disk and repository that contains their specific drivers or software.

[madjr]

I think you're confused (and your poll results meaningless, since you didn't put in the first option that the LTS will probably be buggy).

LTSes are not any stabler than normal releases. Dapper was buggy as hell for the first month and a half of its release (just like most Ubuntu releases). For more information, read LTS doesn’t stand for “stabler than Feisty” (http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2007/09/06/lts-doesnt-stand-for-stabler-than-feisty/), which could easily be retitled LTS doesn’t stand for “stabler than Gutsy” and still be true.

Whether Dell should sell 8.10-preinstalled laptops when 8.10 comes out or not depends on whether or not Dell can get 8.10 to work well with its laptops at that time.

If there's any kind of general policy Dell should adopt with regard to releases, it should be to wait at least a month after any new release (including LTS ones) in order to wait for the major bugs to get worked out of them.

exactly i am confused, thats why i got this poll running. :confused:

I know dapper was buggy as hell, but we are all hoping it wont be the same story with Hardy...

a big amount of stuff was postponed to 8.10, so we hope they do a better job this time (polish it at least).

gutsy was rushed and even basic stuff was super broken/buggy/unpolished.

LTS should not be rushed, if they need an extra month to sort bugs they should take it.

Dell will do what their costumers want, so i want to know what you guys want after hardy.

On each new Ubuntu release Dell loses money. No one wants to buy their laptops with an older version of ubuntu. So if they don't upgrade to the latest release immediately their ubuntu laptops will barely sell.

I think we give too much attention to each "new" release rather than focus on the LTS.

once 8.10 is out (with all the hype and fuss), hardy will look outdated and not attract buyers anymore... what can we do to remedy that? release the LTS service packs at same time as 8.10?

[aysiu]

Confusion about Ubuntu releases has nothing to do with the ability to make a poll.

You have proposed that Hardy will, by nature of being LTS, be stabler than non-LTS releases, yet you admit that the only LTS release we have had to date was buggy as hell.

In other words, there is no basis for saying that Dell should stick with LTS releases.

[madjr]

Confusion about Ubuntu releases has nothing to do with the ability to make a poll.

You have proposed that Hardy will, by nature of being LTS, be stabler than non-LTS releases, yet you admit that the only LTS release we have had to date was buggy as hell.

In other words, there is no basis for saying that Dell should stick with LTS releases.

weren't LTS's destined to OEMs in the first place?

whats the porpuse of an LTS if not oems?...

i didn't "proposed" anything, am asking users what they want (they will be the costumers).

dapper was the first attempt at an LTS so yes, as you stated, it was "buggy as hell".

As far as i know the devs are trying not to repeat history and make hardy as less buggy as possible and get it polished.

[hkgonra]

Confusion about Ubuntu releases has nothing to do with the ability to make a poll.

You have proposed that Hardy will, by nature of being LTS, be stabler than non-LTS releases, yet you admit that the only LTS release we have had to date was buggy as hell.

In other words, there is no basis for saying that Dell should stick with LTS releases.

I would say the basis is that an LTS should be a much more stable relase.

[aysiu]

The purpose of the LTS is the allowance of organizations that have no need for cutting edge software to continue using one version for a long period of time and still get security updates. I have not read anything on the Ubuntu website or in Mark Shuttleworth's interviews indicating that OEMs were intended to use LTSes only and shy away from regular releases.

[Cows]

No, LTS is just long term support.

I installed the Beta on my laptop, and I can assure you, it is bleeding edge.

On my laptop:

* Feisty : DVD drive didn't work
* Gutsy : Everything worked, except Compiz (Intel blacklist)
* Hardy Beta : Everything works and and for the first time, I thought Ubuntu was pretty.

I am entirely impressed with Hardy. Ubuntu is just going up.

(I am not going to minimize the importance of getting the right hardware, or that Ubuntu doesn't need more RAM to do the cool stuff. Heron doesn't need to be heavy, one can do a base install and build up as one can always do)

For Dell, I don't think it matters. It would be trivial to upgrade or reinstall a higher version. This isn't Windows. I just recently installed 6.06 on my other notebook (G3 PowerPC).

Yea same here. Feisty and Gutsy had a lot of bugs with my iBook. Hardy on the other hand works out of the box. I even get WPA support out of the box and it's impressive since this is the Original Airport card. The cons are that gnome is pretty slow on Heron compared to a clean installation of debian's gnome. Hopefully everything will be ironed out in the final release.

To this topic : I think OEM's should stick with the LTS since it will be supported longer. The users can upgrade on there own if they wish.

[LaRoza]

Yea same here. Feisty and Gutsy had a lot of bugs with my iBook. Hardy on the other hand works out of the box. I even get WPA support out of the box and it's impressive since this is the Original Airport card. The cons are that gnome is pretty slow on Heron compared to a clean installation of debian's gnome. Hopefully everything will be ironed out in the final release.

To this topic : I think OEM's should stick with the LTS since it will be supported longer. The users can upgrade on there own if they wish.

That laptop above was a new ThinkPad (R61i), my iBook, with a G3 has 6.06 on it.

I don't think Ubuntu is an OEM suitable distro. It has a rapid release cycle, very easy to upgrade and install, and works on many computers. If Dell just makes a system built to be compatible, it doesn't matter if they leave the hard disk blank, and just throw a couple of Ubuntu CD's in the box.

[madjr]

Yea same here. Feisty and Gutsy had a lot of bugs with my iBook. Hardy on the other hand works out of the box. I even get WPA support out of the box and it's impressive since this is the Original Airport card. The cons are that gnome is pretty slow on Heron compared to a clean installation of debian's gnome. Hopefully everything will be ironed out in the final release.

To this topic : I think OEM's should stick with the LTS since it will be supported longer. The users can upgrade on there own if they wish.

your sign says you have alpha 6

did you try the beta?

[Cows]

There's no beta for PPC. There shouldn't be much difference between Alpha 6 and Beta 1 besides the state.

@LaRoza

How fast is 6.06 on PPC and do you get WPA support out of the box ( assuming you have Original Airport card w/ Orinoco chipset ) ? You probably don't have WPA ootb if it's 6.06.

[toupeiro]

Ubuntu has a 6 month release cycle, but an 18 month lifecycle on non-LTS releases. Whats wrong with giving the user the option? I think they should always offer 2 six month releases, and an LTS option. 3 different versions of ubuntu is better than several flavors of the same version of vista...

Its not like upgrading is expensive with ubuntu, afterall. (or difficult. In fact, I'd say its ten fold easier to jump in place from 7.10 to 8.04 than it would be to jump from WinXP to Windows Vista.)

[Ripfox]

They could offer both versions. 8.10 for the home users who want the latest and 8.04 for corporate customers who prefer stability over novelty.

But I think 8.10 will do just fine in most cases. Despite being new and perhaps a little buggy, it will be a final release and not a beta. No released Ubuntu version should have too many bugs to be used by a regular desktop user - if that turns out to be the case, then it should be considered a failure.

I don't believe in recommending your customers anything but the latest stable release. The LTS should be for customers with special needs, i.e. very high stability requirements.

:lolflag: 7.10 anyone?

[Circus-Killer]

i think dell should just stick to the LTS releases. if the customer wants to upgrade to the next release, they can easily do so. its not like upgrading ubuntu is a painful process.