What do you think about Evolution and Novell?

[freebios]

I wanted to get feedback from the Ubuntu community about how some of you felt about gnome desktop including Novell's evolution mail which shares patents with Microsoft. I read articles online claiming this had to be done because Novell would not able to access Microsoft's exchange server, or if these patents were not sold to Microsoft evolution would not be able to be compatible with other proprietary Microsoft technologies. I read articles that we should support Mozilla's Thunderbird 2 and uninstall Novell's evolution because they undermine the free software movement and have had discussions with Microsoft on how to bar the Linux community from utilizing services critical to imap email. what do you all think about this situation what would be the ethical thing to do please provide feedback.

(note poll is biased sorry I cant change it now)

[Sam Lars]

I would use Evolution if I hadn't had bugs with it. I don't really want to trust something for my mail if the calendar crashes just pasting an appointment.
But the calendar integrates with the clock and all... and I haven't found anything better. Plus, I like the backup/restore plugin. I wish I had that for Thunderbird. I tried Sunbird but I had problems saving/restoring my appointments from Evolution.

And Thunderbird will never be Gnome's default. They have Balsa going... haven't checked that out, but it's another option. It may replace Evolution.

So I will use Evolution for calendar, and Thunderbird for my email... and I don't have much of a problem adding Thunderbird after install, because I do a lot of adding and removing anyway.

[freebios]

hey thanks for posting that info. I'll have to look into balsa I am not very familar with the project.

[wiscados]

Evolution is GPL'd. Don't worry about it. Novel doesn't own it, the community does.

[freebios]

check out these articles please give me some feedback and tell me what you think.


http://technocrat.net/d/2006/11/2/9945
http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/03/06/mix-novells-de-icaza-criticizes-microsoft-patent-deal
http://techp.org/p/1

[danbuter]

I picked Thunderbird, but mainly because I don't like Evolution. I could care less about the Novell/Microsoft deal.

[bruce89]

I don't care about the patent thing, especially since Evolution is not affected by this. Evolution is the GNOME groupware, and should remain so.

[moore.bryan]

i hate evolution, but no other program plays natively well with my work's exchange-server.

[smartboyathome]

Just to let you know, the pole is biased because the option for keeping Evolution is put in a negative light. I think that is a little unfair.

[jken146]

Just to let you know, the pole is biased because the option for keeping Evolution is put in a negative light. I think that is a little unfair.

Indeed. I need to use Evolution because of its MS Exchange support. I also like the fact that, unlike Thunderbird, it is GTK. So what if Novell develops Evolution? Let the program be judged on its merits, not on the actions of Novell with regard to another firm.

[bruce89]

Just to let you know, the pole is biased because the option for keeping Evolution is put in a negative light. I think that is a little unfair.

Indeed, I don't "support novell's shared patents with microsoft", but I do support Evolution.

For instance, if there was a poll asking "Do you want Scottish Independence", more people would say "yes" than if the question was "Do you want the UK to be broken up".

I see no connection to the patent minefield that is Mono, and Evolution. To those of you who say "Evolution will be rewritten in MONO (in capitals)", you have no grasp of the software development process.

[Foster Grant]

I would use Evolution if I hadn't had bugs with it. I don't really want to trust something for my mail if the calendar crashes just pasting an appointment.
But the calendar integrates with the clock and all... and I haven't found anything better. Plus, I like the backup/restore plugin. I wish I had that for Thunderbird. I tried Sunbird but I had problems saving/restoring my appointments from Evolution.

And Thunderbird will never be Gnome's default. They have Balsa going... haven't checked that out, but it's another option. It may replace Evolution.

So I will use Evolution for calendar, and Thunderbird for my email... and I don't have much of a problem adding Thunderbird after install, because I do a lot of adding and removing anyway.

Two words: "Lightning extension." Great job implementing the Sunbird calendar inside Thunderbird.

I haven't looked at the source, but Evolution just feels like poor code to me. Certainly it's not as well put-together as Thunderbird is.

[Foster Grant]

I also like the fact that, unlike Thunderbird, it (Evolution) is GTK.

This is not correct. Thunderbird has always been GTK.

This site lists GTK+ 2.10.13 as one of current T-bird's dependencies.

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/xsoft/thunderbird.html

[Polygon]

technically thunderbird is written using XULrunner

[freebios]

I do understand where you all are coming from. I know some people have to use evolution because it suits their needs. I honestly feel that we a society have a higher responsibility to allow everyone to be able to be benefit from free software regardless of income or location, or age, but that is just my opinion. Novell's cross patents seem to undermine the free software movement from the links I have read. I am not trying to change anyones mind I am just reading all of your posts and trying to see how everyone feels. It's probably me who needs to change. keep it coming! thanks again.

[drascus]

I have a hard time even responding to this poll. There is problem with thunderbird too as they have certain licenses that cover thunderbird that arn't Free Software Licenses. Notice that in the Free OS Gnewsense that had to remove artwork and also rename things in Firefox in order to make it a Free Software Package. I would suspect that if we were going to use Thunderbird by default and call it Free Software we would have to do something similar. Evolution mail sharing patents with Microsoft might not be a huge deal. The Linux kernal is probably infringing on hundreds of Patents in Fact just about every Free Software package is infriging on hundreds of Patents. My suggestion is to support The End Software patents project: http://endsoftpatents.org/ If we can get rid of software patents we won't have to worry about these issues at all and no one could threaten anyone anymore

[Foster Grant]

technically thunderbird is written using XULrunner

Which doesn't change the fact that it uses the GTK+ toolkit.

Now if they really wanted to impress me, they'd have written the whole thing in Perl.

[chewearn]

I do understand where you all are coming from. I know some people have to use evolution because it suits their needs. I honestly feel that we a society have a higher responsibility to allow everyone to be able to be benefit from free software regardless of income or location, or age, but that is just my opinion. Novell's cross patents seem to undermine the free software movement from the links I have read. I am not trying to change anyones mind I am just reading all of your posts and trying to see how everyone feels. It's probably me who needs to change. keep it coming! thanks again.

hi freebios
In the three links you provided, I did not find a direct or specific connection between Novell-Microsoft deal, and the program called Evolution.

Can you quote a specific paragraph, or another link, where there is an explanation of Evolution equals Novell+Microsoft.

[Teber]

my reasons for choosing to use thunderbird are in no way related to the novell/microsoft arrangement.

i use thunderbird for mail only. and my mail addies are on a server running under debian. unless i'm very much mistaken, i see no need to use evolution. hence i'm very happy with this free choice of mail proggies.

gurus please correct me if i'm wrong.

[freebios]

thank you drascus for the post, you put out good info for everyone.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

In terms of user interface, I must say I for one (as a non-business user) despise the Evolution shell. Pimlico (Tasks, Contacts and Dates) is a nice little suite that uses the Evolution data server and acts as a really good, easy front end. It would be nice to see such a front-end for the desktop, aimed more at home users and less at business ones, for mail. (And maybe a desktop-ised Pimlico suite, too). The businessey, Outlook-esque Evolution is very out of place here as busy business software, since the rest of Ubuntu (and GNOME, for that matter) is about being for "human beings". I understand the presence of that monolithic Evolution shell as an option, but the defaults should be considerably simpler and easier.

EDS itself is really nice, quiet and tidy, and nicely used in the GNOME desktop.

No, Thunderbird does not fit the bill because:
-It is not desktop integrated.
-Being aimed at Windows, it will never look right in the GNOME desktop, even if it does magically start using GTK. Its user interface is miles away from our HIG.
-As a result of the above two, developers outside of Ubuntu will not likely be writing software that talks with Thunderbird's database. That means less chance of a nice synchronization tool (the Pimlico project is building such a thing), less chance of a nice backup tool, and no more fancy clock without a bunch of patches from Ubuntu.

[PartisanEntity]

I won't vote due to the obvious bias, but I like Evolution and it has the features I need/want. It integrates nicely into Gnome, which is one of the main reasons I use it. When and if any other mail client reaches the level of Evolution and starts to integrate into my DE, then I could consider switching.

Until then it is simply not an option for me because it would not be a user-friendly migration.

[Dr. C]

GPL3 should fix this.

Isn't Evolution as apart of the GNOME project GPL2 or later? If so a simple solution to the Microsoft Patent issue is to distribute Evolution as GPL3 or later.

As for the poll it becomes pointless if distribution under GPL3 is an option since distribution under GPL 3 woulld solve the problem. I will not vote in the poll since the option I would support is distribute Evolution under GPL3 or later.

By the way GPL3 has already done wonders for SAMBA in their negotiations with Microsoft and the EU around patents.

[Polygon]

it means later version of gplv2 or later, it doesnt mean gplv3

[Dr. C]

it means later version of gplv2 or later, it doesnt mean gplv3

If software is distributed under GPL2 or later, then you have every right to turn around and redistribute the same software as GPL3 or later.

[ice60]

I wanted to get feedback from the Ubuntu community about how some of you felt about gnome desktop including Novell's evolution mail which shares patents with Microsoft.

maybe i'm wrong, but doesn't this just boil down to whether someone is a Free/Gnu person, or open source, or doesn't really care? i'm probably wrong lol

however, i don't agree with Gnu's way of thinking and i don't mind gnome including evolution, i even use suse :-$

BTW, does Mint use Thunderbird instead of Evolution?

[freebios]

this will be my last post on this site I have up set many people with my thread and posts including forum staff. I have been sternly notified via personal messages. I wish you all the best of luck thanks again.

[drascus]

that is unfortunate to hear freebios. I haven't seen these other posts that upset people but it looks as though you have good ideas otherwise. Good luck to you where ever you go.

[ice60]

this will be my last post on this site I have up set many people with my thread and posts including forum staff. I have been sternly notified via personal messages. I wish you all the best of luck thanks again.
i don't know what you're talking about, but don't leave because you believe in Gnu and get critised for it. i expect to be flamed for my last post, but it's something i know is right, just like i'm sure you know Gnu is right :)

i think this is a good thread topic, but i'm probably wrong about your wanting to leave because you support Gnu. new people need to understand what it all means so they can make up their own minds, if all the Gnu people gave up that would be pretty sad, eventhough i don't agree with it!

[coderand]

I used Thunderbird when I was a Windows user. I made the switch a few years ago to Ubuntu, so I continued using Thunderbird because it was easy to migrate my e-mail.

I also started using Sunbird when I switched to Ubuntu.

I am now thinking of switching to Evolution because it is integrated into Gnome and the default Ubuntu installation. I'm strongly leaning to doing that, if I can easily move my e-mail and settings from Thunderbird to Evolution.

I'm currently working on doing that. This website was helpful: http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-import-thunderbird-emails-to-evolution

I'm going to give Evolution a try and see if I like it. If I do I'm going to switch to it.

[Swagman]

How deep did you have to dig to trawl this topic up ?

[julio prada]

Evolution is not reliable, if you put an appointment and you don't open the program this day, it will not advice you. With Outlook you can be completely sure about your reminders. For example, if I put to pay my credit card on day 20, if I don't open evolution on the 20th I will miss my payment, even if my payment is due on the 27th. That makes evolution unreliable and useless.
Reminders, why can there be a reminder window that, if you are in a meeting just push "snooze all". Outlook, as everything from M$, lacks the vision and common sense of companies like Apple and Nokia, but Evolution is even worse, you have to do a lot of actions and thinking (like not touching the reminders that you have to dismiss until the end, when you will close the window and all will be dismissed). That is incredible! I know it is a free application, if I don't like it I just don't use it.
What is the best option for a contact, calendar and task manager on Linux?
I think other alternatives are good but really lack development.
I do not like the idea of having the same application for mail, contacts, tasks, calendars, etc.
I would like to have a single operating system wide contact manager, used by any application that requires contacts.
Another thing I dont like about Evolution is the contact editor, on the main screen I have a lot of fields that I dont use, the notes field is dis-proportionally small, a lot of wasted space, but too little for notes field.
I will finally say goodbye to Evolution and use Gmail, I dont like to rely on them so much but I am really tired of Evolution's lack of common sense.

[coderand]

I have since gone back to using Thunderbird as my default email client. With Thunderbird I am able to move between Ubuntu and Windows (when needed) being able to access and keep the same profile and all my email and settings.

[sydbat]

I have since gone back to using Thunderbird as my default email client. With Thunderbird I am able to move between Ubuntu and Windows keeping the same profile and all my email and settings.Umm...2 year old thread dude.

[doas777]

my only concern via evolution, is that when it dies, there will be no migration tool to help me move my message spool over to a new client, since i periodically remove messages from the server for security's sake,

[cariboo]

Things have changed quite a bit since this thread was created, I would suggest you create a new thread, as this one is closed.