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OrangeCrate
March 19th, 2008, 04:01 PM
How is commenting on the quality of the content in a thread considered an "insulting comment" ?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=728031&page=7

p_quarles
March 19th, 2008, 04:04 PM
For the admins:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=728896

jdong
March 19th, 2008, 05:57 PM
and if you do it, in my book, you're just another form of low-life.


Does this part of your statement explain why it is a direct insult on another member?

OrangeCrate
March 19th, 2008, 06:06 PM
Does this part of your statement explain why it is a direct insult on another member?

Not in context. The statement was generalized, and not aimed at any individual.


Stealing proprietary software where you live may not be technically illegal, but it sure in the hell is unethical, and if you do it, in my book, you're just another form of low-life.

The part that was snipped, and an infraction dealt out was:

"What a dumb assed thread."

jdong
March 19th, 2008, 06:11 PM
One should probably not use the second person pronouns when making a general observation. While you probably did not intend your statement to be a personal attack, your choice of warning simply begged that interpretation.

In the future, please be more careful with your wording.

OrangeCrate
March 19th, 2008, 09:30 PM
^,

O.K., then let it read:


If stealing proprietary software where a person lives is not technically illegal, it sure in the hell is unethical, and if they do it, in my book, they're just another form of low-life.

jdong
March 19th, 2008, 11:14 PM
Glad we reached a level of mutual understanding :)
You were given a one point infraction that expires in 10 days, which does not impose any restrictions on your account (unless you accumulate more during this period) and is not visible to anyone but the staff and yourself.

I still feel that it was issued in an appropriate matter and see no reason to revert it.

Does this sound reasonable to you?

OrangeCrate
March 19th, 2008, 11:17 PM
No.

jdong
March 19th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Could another Forum Council member weigh in? :)

OrangeCrate
March 19th, 2008, 11:39 PM
It would be pointless. Who's going to second guess you.

KiwiNZ
March 19th, 2008, 11:50 PM
Using the term "what a dumbassed thread" is insulting. Especially to the person who started it and to those who have participated in it. It could also be regarded as flame bait. This is against the code of conduct for the forums.

That said , the offending peice was moderatd out. We could look at a compromise here and change the infraction to a warning.

Thoughts?

matthew
March 19th, 2008, 11:52 PM
A one point infraction is reasonable and doesn't even amount to a slap on the wrist. It is the equivalent of a mild warning, one step up from a "excuse me, I don't think you realized that you may have offended" to "it seems as though you are unaware that your manner of expression is lacking, please adjust it."

It's a silly thing to fight over as it has absolutely no bearing on your forums access, posting ability, status, or reputation. It was a warning, and while it is intended to be taken seriously, it is not a major thing. Ignoring it could cause a major thing to happen, but this is a minor one.

jdong
March 19th, 2008, 11:52 PM
It would be pointless. Who's going to second guess you.

I merely stated my opinion. I'd like to hope all FC members (and it is the case) have their independent opinions on this and wanted more voices.

I am flexible to all options for this. I would support reducing it to a warning.

matthew
March 19th, 2008, 11:57 PM
KiwiNZ and I posted at the same time. I don't have any emotional attachment to the 1 point infraction vs an infraction warning. Either way is okay with me.

I still think this is making a mountain out of a molehill, though. (Or as a Moroccan might say, "Min houbba, kit'amaal koubba," which means, "From a pimple you are making a shrine.")

jdong
March 20th, 2008, 12:13 AM
It was a warning, and while it is intended to be taken seriously, it is not a major thing. Ignoring it could cause a major thing to happen, but this is a minor one.


That is my view on the use of infractions also. One point infractions should serve as just a heavier warning for when something barely crosses the line. That's why it takes 5 of them within 10 days to amount to any kind of account restriction.

But as I said before I am flexible over this, and if it would really make you happy to have the infraction changed to a warning, I have no objections.

OrangeCrate
March 21st, 2008, 01:33 PM
This is the post just prior to mine:


Quote:
Originally Posted by saulgoode
This substitution of the word "criminal" for "illegal" would provide a proper distinction between breaches of civil law (disagreements between citizens were no crime has been committed) and violations of criminal law. .
The amendment would need to mention the definition of criminal/illegal. Meaning, what country's definition of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyper_ch
Even if the servers are not in the US it doesn't matter much.

The US is still in control over .com/.net/.org domains and hence they also control ubuntuforums.org.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the domain name system is controlled (from what I remember) by ICANN, which is an international organization. The US, I believe, only controls .us, .gov (but not .gov.uk, .gov.ie, etc.), an .edu (but not .edu.*).

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=728031&page=6

As you can see, my post did not reference the one above it, nor did I quote any other post in the thread. Therefore, my comments were freestanding, and generalized.

I believe that your Mod pulled the trigger too quickly, based on his own opinion, and not what was actually said.

The snipped part read::

"What a dumb *** thread." (Sorry, I misquoted myself above.)

The infraction, whether it be 1 point, a warning, or whatever, is unjustified, and I would request that you remove it.

OrangeCrate
March 21st, 2008, 04:01 PM
I just discovered that you can't edit these posts...

@jdong

Having written an MBA online, with a post count in excess of 50K, I assure you, that I'm quite familiar with grammatical rules.

When making a general statement, writing in the second person, unlinked, is just as appropriate as writing in the third person.

I posted the alternative, just to show you that I know how.

:)

OrangeCrate
May 8th, 2008, 03:25 AM
I'm blowing the dust off of this thread, as another example of p_quarles shaping the forums in his image, with arbitrary infractions based on his opinion of what should be, rather than what was actually said, or intended by the OP.

I would suggest a review of his posts by Administration, and a determination made as to whether he should continue as a Moderator.

matthew
May 8th, 2008, 08:57 AM
Links, examples and specifics, please.

Saying we should "review his posts" for possible problems is like saying a person needs to perform a self-audit of his finances because someone else thinks they may be doing their tax reports incorrectly. It's like finding a needle in a haystack, a drop (or a bucket) in the ocean, etc.

Sorry if I just sprinkled the dust back on the thread you cleaned off...

OrangeCrate
May 8th, 2008, 12:32 PM
Sorry if I just sprinkled the dust back on the thread you cleaned off...

Well, actually you didn't. My intent was to put the concern on the table, and frankly, the tone and content of your response was fully expected.

Personally, I've scanned many of his posts, and others can certainly do so, by simply going to:

Search > Advanced Search > Search by User Name > p_quarles

Unfortunately, posts alone can't tell me or others what we're looking for, because as members, we can't see a record of issued infractions. Without that, it would be difficult to impossible to check threads and posts for the appropriateness of his actions.

Only you and the other administrators can check for a pattern of abuse of where and when infractions were issued, and whether they were appropriate, or whether they were nitpicking, or in the context of a larger picture, symptoms of a passive aggressive personality.

So, my comment still stands. I have a strong hunch that he's overstepping his authority, but only you Matthew, and the other administrators can say for sure.

matthew
May 8th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Unless there is something specific that you are referring to, I can't help you here. Let me try another analogy...what you are asking sounds a lot like someone saying to me, back in my teaching days, "I don't like the tone of voice that student_x used with me. Will you go back through all his files and see if he has done his homework properly?"

Vague insinuations of misbehavior are not going to be investigated. If you feel like you have been abused, mistreated, or if you have found a specific instance of something amiss that you would like us to look at, give us a link and we will do so with pleasure.

As much as is possible, we keep an eye on staff, infractions issued, and patterns. There have been no warning signs or problems with p_quarles that any of us have noticed (nor with any other current staff member).

OrangeCrate
May 8th, 2008, 03:25 PM
Unless there is something specific that you are referring to, I can't help you here. Let me try another analogy...what you are asking sounds a lot like someone saying to me, back in my teaching days, "I don't like the tone of voice that student_x used with me. Will you go back through all his files and see if he has done his homework properly?"

Vague insinuations of misbehavior are not going to be investigated. If you feel like you have been abused, mistreated, or if you have found a specific instance of something amiss that you would like us to look at, give us a link and we will do so with pleasure.

As much as is possible, we keep an eye on staff, infractions issued, and patterns. There have been no warning signs or problems with p_quarles that any of us have noticed (nor with any other current staff member).


That's good. Now that I and others in this forum have brought the matter of p_quarles's moderating behavior to your attention, you and the other Admins will keep him on your active radar.

matthew
May 8th, 2008, 03:55 PM
That's good. Now that I and others in this forum have brought the matter of p_quarles's moderating behavior to your attention, you and the other Admins will keep him on your active radar.I'm not sure what the deal is here. I just got done telling you that we will change nothing about how we deal with any of our staff members based on unsupported comments and innuendo. He won't be any more or less "on our radar" than usual.

If you have a specific matter or incident to discuss, with links, we are prepared to do so.

We will not discuss any member of the staff otherwise. At the moment, this is looking more like a witch hunt than a complaint. I guess I'm saying that it is time to present evidence, or be quiet and stop wasting my time and demeaning any staff member.

ubuntu-geek
May 8th, 2008, 04:08 PM
I'm not sure what the deal is here. I just got done telling you that we will change nothing about how we deal with any of our staff members based on unsupported comments and innuendo. He won't be any more or less "on our radar" than usual.

If you have a specific matter or incident to discuss, with links, we are prepared to do so.

We will not discuss any member of the staff otherwise. At the moment, this is looking more like a witch hunt than a complaint. I guess I'm saying that it is time to present evidence, or be quiet and stop wasting my time and demeaning any staff member.
+1 I am going with Matthew's opinion on this.

KiwiNZ
May 8th, 2008, 10:55 PM
I agree with the other Forum Council Members.

Making unsubstantiated accusations is rude and very unhelpful. It is also unfair to those concerned.