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View Full Version : [SOLVED] Suggestion : Threads like " Which C++ IDE " to be forbidden on forums



dempl_dempl
March 16th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Example of threads I'm talking about was posted 4 hours ago :
Which C++ IDE (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=725977)

Basically , it's is one of those threads like: which language is the best for beginner? , what IDE should I use , what is better : Java or C++
etc. etc.

Every day we get new thread of this kind . I believe those threads are only bloating the forum, and hardening the search for some real , useful, information since they always fill up 15 pages with answers which we've all seen 1000 times before.

These kind of threads can be easily found by forum search tools, in case any beginner really needs a info like that. There's even one useful sticky in this section.


What do you think of it?


Cheers!

Lord Illidan
March 16th, 2008, 06:28 PM
What do you think about a thread merge? Where's LaRoza when you need him?

LaRoza
March 16th, 2008, 06:56 PM
What do you think about a thread merge? Where's LaRoza when you need him?

LaRoza has come. For your information, I had to sleep.

I did ask about this once, but the discussion went a little side tracked.

Recurring Discussions was found to be acceptable for such threads.

If you see a non informative Recurring Discussion, report it and it will be deal with.

There will be similiar posts from time to time, but some are a waste of space.

pmasiar
March 16th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Do we want "Recurring discusions in Programming"? ans shuffle all those meaningless rehashings of stale arguments there?

I have more radical solution: Create FAQ named "What discussion can earn you point?" and mention all those (and links to previous discussions about them. Then, if someone creates such new thread about topic to be banned, s/he obviously did not read FAQ (which should be punishable by a point anyway) or ignored it: so, lets add one point for it. One point for new poster is nothing much, but it will send a message. I do not think someone will be as dumb as to do the same mistake 15 times - and if, it deserves to be banned. :-)

LaRoza
March 16th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Do we want "Recurring discusions in Programming"? ans shuffle all those meaningless rehashings of stale arguments there?

I have more radical solution: Create FAQ named "What discussion can earn you point?" and mention all those (and links to previous discussions about them. Then, if someone creates such new thread about topic to be banned, s/he obviously did not read FAQ (which should be punishable by a point anyway) or ignored it: so, lets add one point for it. One point for new poster is nothing much, but it will send a message. I do not think someone will be as dumb as to do the same mistake 15 times - and if, it deserves to be banned. :-)

Well, the problem with that is people are only required to read the CoC when they join and agree to that.

Also, some threads start outside of the PT (this forum is very large, and not really something I expect anyone to get a grasp on immediately. We had a request in the FF&H for a Programming subforum recently :)), and they are not expected to see the stickies.

Does everyone like the megathread idea?

(A megathread is a merging off all similar threads into a single thread, it will be in the recurring discussions of course.)

dempl_dempl
March 16th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Hey.. that pointing-system would most likely get me banned . I create infractions on daily basis :-)



I just believe those threads should be deleted and the creator should get notification.

No hard feelings , or nagging to the creator , nobody gets "negative points" , just a short explanation that forums should be protected from bloating . On the end of message , you put a link to the sticky , and that's all.

LaRoza
March 16th, 2008, 07:23 PM
No hard feelings , or nagging to the creator , nobody gets "negative points" , just a short explanation that forums should be protected from bloating . On the end of message , you put a link to the sticky , and that's all.

Deleting threads is not really a solution, execpt in certain circumstances.

(And I don't like doing it, because it is a soft delete and still visible to staff. Not really a solution.)

Remember to report such threads when you see them.

lnostdal
March 16th, 2008, 07:25 PM
yeah, i hit refresh on f=39 then go *cringe* .. so much "boring" repeating stuff .. i don't have the energy to reply _properly_ so 99% of the time i just ignore the questions that show up again and again and instead try to read the interesting stuff and sometimes participate there (if i can find back to it) .. so many good threads lost in noise; i guess i should start using the "subscribe thread"-feature more

sometimes i wonder if forums, in general, need an upgrade .. maybe they should be implemented as 50% forum and 50% chat .. there is no need for 500 threads that says:



sudo aptitude install build-essential


..and/or point to the same FAQ-thread and push all the interesting threads away .. so people that only needed quick pointers/hints would use the chat and not clutter up the forum

..or maybe 33.3% forum, 33.3% chat and 33.3% wiki.. with a common search interface (with option to search only the forum, only chat or only the wiki .. or combinations)

sometimes i miss threaded forums (USENET etc.) .. and, well, sometimes i still use those forums .. but the only web-interfaces i've found to them have been very lacking compared to the old application-type interfaces

..just ranting.. =)

LaRoza
March 16th, 2008, 07:33 PM
[QUOTE=lnostdal;4527597].../QUOTE]

Well, you will like the new feature in vBulletin that is coming up :)

mssever
March 16th, 2008, 09:03 PM
I vote for either a megathread or a recurring discussions subforum under programming talk (so people will see it). My preference is for recurring discussions.

bapoumba
March 16th, 2008, 09:14 PM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=561944
If you look at the last point in Matthew's post, you see there is already room for moving anything that is recurring in PT to the Recurring Discussion forum. The line can be improved ^^

Other than that, we decided to drop the megathreads idea in Recurring and just move the threads there. I have no particular opinion on megathreads. Recurring is just a mega place for these threads that usually die on their own. That's the idea.

Lster
March 16th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Do we want "Recurring discusions in Programming"? ans shuffle all those meaningless rehashings of stale arguments there?

I have more radical solution: Create FAQ named "What discussion can earn you point?" and mention all those (and links to previous discussions about them. Then, if someone creates such new thread about topic to be banned, s/he obviously did not read FAQ (which should be punishable by a point anyway) or ignored it: so, lets add one point for it. One point for new poster is nothing much, but it will send a message. I do not think someone will be as dumb as to do the same mistake 15 times - and if, it deserves to be banned.

That's a little harsh. New users come to Ubuntu forums for help and guidance - I know that when I was new, I could never find what I wanted by searching and must of posted loads of seemingly repetitive threads.

Further, from the Ubuntu Forums CoC:


There are no stupid questions. You're not a stupid person simply because you do not know how to do something, or do not have the answer to a question. Everyone was a green user at one point in time. :)

dempl_dempl
March 16th, 2008, 09:52 PM
Deleting threads is not really a solution, execpt in certain circumstances.

(And I don't like doing it, because it is a soft delete and still visible to staff. Not really a solution.)

Remember to report such threads when you see them.

Well, ubuntu forums have a high Google Page Rank, and Recurring Discussions folder bloats Google's index :-) . But , since every search engine has a bloated index, it's not a big deal . Internet is bloated place :-D . He he, I have no idea what I wanted to say :-D . I'm going to get some sleep .

Can+~
March 16th, 2008, 10:47 PM
I've been moderator of forums before, and I can tell that humans are lazy. I can assure that having a long thread, or a link thread isn't as effective as having an explicit answer on the title of a pinned topic, sometimes, it's even worth the trouble of posting the question rather than diving into a single pinned thread.

This happens since people read pages in a F pattern, read a line, scroll, read a line, scroll. If you get the first segment of the reading to target the direct answer, then you have successfully driven their attention, specially if using visual cues like BOLD.

The ideal setting, is having 5 topics (maximum) pinned, each one with the most straight, direct answer. Examples:

"List of IDEs for programming"
"Beginners: Where to start? What's the best language?"

I think that "Programming Talk FAQ's" it's too shallow, I get the feeling that people never reads faqs, as FAQ is rarely the word that you look for (unless you got experience doing this, NOT the case of newcomers).

LaRoza
March 16th, 2008, 10:51 PM
The ideal setting, is having 5 topics (maximum) pinned, each one with the most straight, direct answer. Examples:

"List of IDEs for programming"
"Beginners: Where to start? What's the best language?"

I think that "Programming Talk FAQ's" it's too shallow, I get the feeling that people never reads faqs, as FAQ is rarely the word that you look for (unless you got experience doing this, NOT the case of newcomers).

We had that before, and was found to be inferior to an index type of thread.

See the current FAQ, it has the IDE and beginner issue first, in purple and away from the list. There is no excuse for missing them.

dwblas
March 17th, 2008, 01:36 AM
See the current FAQ, it has the IDE and beginner issue first, in purple and away from the list. There is no excuse for missing them.I think everyone is making the mistake of thinking that this will prevent someone from starting a continuously recurring post. It won't. They just want to talk or are too lazy to look anything up themselves, or will do it for a number of other reasons. The posts will come no matter what is done. So the question is, "What is the best thing to do with them"? Whatever is done has to remove the incentive to start yet another. Remember, these are people who are asking questions with no answer-and probably for a reason-i.e "What is the best beginner programming language/IDE/way to get some"? Maybe someone who doesn't have the flu will start a poll about what to do. Then we can at least say we are following the wishes of users and maybe point offenders to the poll so they can see how many people find this annoying.

pmasiar
March 17th, 2008, 03:12 AM
So the question is, "What is the best thing to do with them"? Whatever is done has to remove the incentive to start yet another. .

In this case, moving thread to "recurring discussions", and mentioning sticky FAQ is the best solution.

SyCo123
March 17th, 2008, 05:01 PM
"This has been answered already loads of times, don't you know how to use search."

"err ... I did try but didn't find anything"

"what a noob, you thread is banished to the dumb noob section, to await a reply that will never come!!. Go search again... timewasting lazy noob"

{thread moved}

"but I just ... hello? can anyone hear me"

Yea, nice attitude fellas.

Banishing threads to a different section is not very welcoming.

Reminding someone about searching first is a good idea. Even post a link to the search results to make your point. To say 'we've heard that before so go away'. That's just rude, you'd never do it in real life.

If answering repeated questions is beneath you can I suggest you just move on. Someone else will be happy to get the chance to answer an easy question.

jken146
March 17th, 2008, 05:16 PM
Reminding someone about searching first is a good idea. Even post a link to the search results to make your point. To say 'we've heard that before so go away'. That's just rude, you'd never do it in real life.

If answering repeated questions is beneath you can I suggest you just move on. Someone else will be happy to get the chance to answer an easy question.

You're right -- UF is not a knowledge bank, it's some forums. But Recurring Discussions is for recurring discussions, not recurring questions.

dempl_dempl
March 17th, 2008, 06:31 PM
He he, this thread is getting bloated . It first purpose was to aid in dealing with bloatness :-) . It seems that , when every system grows to some point, it turns against it's original purpose :-D .