With open source drivers is worth buying ATI instead of Nvidia?

[Ebuntor]

I don't want to start another ATI vs Nvidia (vs Intel) thread otherwise this end up in the recurring discussions forum.

I'm buying a new laptop and since ATI have made their drivers open is it worth buying ATI instead of Intel or Nvidia?
I understand most people praise Nvidia for it's great drivers and support in Linux. I read Intel's drivers give only 50% of what the card is capable of. I currently have an ATI card myself and I have to say I don't have any complaints, simply install AIGLX and Compiz works without any problems.

So would this somehow improve or would the performance improve the coming months? Will the ATI drivers surpass their Intel and Nvidia counterparts and will I hate myself for buying a Intel or Nvidia card?

[K.Mandla]

I've had a mixed experience, but I live with an XPress 200M, which is a particularly gruesome card. I've heard that other cards are performing much better, and technically that's the case for this one too (it's better than it was in '06, anyway).

If I were buying one, I would not hesitate to pick up an ATI card. I don't know that I would deliberately select an ATI machine over an Nvidia one, but if I could get an ATI-based box for cheaper, I'd buy it.

Kind of vague answer, wasn't it?

[Ebuntor]

I've had a mixed experience, but I live with an XPress 200M, which is a particularly gruesome card. I've heard that other cards are performing much better, and technically that's the case for this one too (it's better than it was in '06, anyway).

The 200M gruesome? Wow that sure is a surprise, that's actually the card I use right now. What's so terrible about in your opinion? For me it runs Compiz, games etc just fine or am I missing something? :)



If I were buying one, I would not hesitate to pick up an ATI card. I don't know that I would deliberately select an ATI machine over an Nvidia one, but if I could get an ATI-based box for cheaper, I'd buy it.

Kind of vague answer, wasn't it?I see. Thing is I'm having a hard time actually finding laptops with Nvidia cards. It's either AMD & ATI, Intel & ATI or Intel & Intel (I heard the Intel drivers give terrible performance). Seems like only Dell sells them with Nvidia.

[eldragon]

id say not yet.

i would wait a bit till drivers mature...maybe the next laptop after this one?

i personally would buy something intel (like i did), but if you have gaming in mind, then thats a no.

ive got on my desktop a x600 ati card, runs ok with newer drivers, yet compiz isnt as snappy as it is with an intel graphics notebook.

[Ebuntor]

id say not yet.

i would wait a bit till drivers mature...maybe the next laptop after this one?

i personally would buy something intel (like i did), but if you have gaming in mind, then thats a no.

ive got on my desktop a x600 ati card, runs ok with newer drivers, yet compiz isnt as snappy as it is with an intel graphics notebook.

Intel? But I've read in numerous threads that the Intel drivers are a nightmare. Only about 50% of the performance the card should give. Also the new X3000/X3100 have been blacklisted for several projects (Compiz for example). But hey I don't do all that much gaming (maybe a little if it can handle that) if Intel is best (even better than Nvidia?) than I'll buy that one. Intel laptops with Intel graphics cards are way cheaper.

[herbster]

No.

[Ebuntor]

No.

Errr, ok. That's that not very helpful actually. :) Could you elaborate?

[herbster]

Besides the fact that Nvidia makes better cards, the drivers work perfectly in linux and are constantly updated and the configuration/tweaking of your visual settings is as easy as it gets. Nvidia has a track record, and ATI is leagues behind, thus they need to build a tremendous amount of credbility with their support before they warrant your business as a linux user, IMO.

It's similar to Creative Labs' deal with linux.

[hessiess]

stick with nvidia, thay still have the best drivers. although in a year or so ATI's drivers may be much better.

[Ebuntor]

stick with nvidia, thay still have the best drivers. although in a year or so ATI's drivers may be much better.

Yeah that's the problem. Will they be better then? My current ATI card doesn't give any problems so the question is: is it best to buy ATI and wait a year assuming their drivers get so much better or isn't that worth it?

[eldragon]

Yeah that's the problem. Will they be better then? My current ATI card doesn't give any problems so the question is: is it best to buy ATI and wait a year assuming their drivers get so much better or isn't that worth it?

thats quite relative, drivers work ok, but compiz isnt near as usable as a card from the competition at the same performance range.

thats just one example. i picked intel since their drivers usually just work (from my experience), there are some video playback issues under compiz but besides that, everything works. out of the box may i add. i didnt plan to have compiz, i chose these because of the price. but compiz works even better than metacity alone. dont expect to run any power hungry plugin tho.

ati's binary blobs got better exponentially since their anouncement to give linux some place in their webpage ;) but still, they driver rewrite needs lots lines of code ;)

i hope i cleared some stuff up

if i had the money, and didnt care about open/closed source drivers, id get an nvidia which works much better and faster than anything else under linux.

[hessiess]

just do your research before buying anything, no matter who makes it and you should be OK. for example, if nvidia relices new card it usaly takes a few months for there popiatery drivers to support it.

[coskierken]

Just going to throw my 2 cents worth in. I have the Radeon Mobility X1700 and it works fine. With the 8.3 and newer drivers, you don't load AIXGL at all. It is built in with the latest revision. ATI has made good strides in the last year when it comes to drivers. There are a few problems here and there, but for the most part, they work well now. One thing they have not quite worked out is the video playback when you have special effects on (Compiz-Fusion). I have all the eye candy working, but when I play movies, I just turn it off via a little program call Compiz-Switch. A little help in getting the ATI drivers optimized is a program call Envy. You can load it from Synaptic. It simplifies the installation and upgrade of the drivers. I hope this adds a little light to the subject. I don't dislike Nvidia, and I may actually get one of their cards for a home gaming/entertainment build.

[GSF1200S]

In one year the card you choose today is likely to be a total dinosaur, unless its a really good card to begin with. I run an Intel- Nvidia laptop, and everything works perfect. Google for Ibuypower- they cost in the mid 1200-1600 range, but they are high end gaming laptops. If you spend all your time waiting for something that may never come, you may be dissapointed. At least with a known quantity such as Nvidia is with Linux, youll be happy while you wait. Im not some Nvidia fanboy- the moment Ati is even in the ballpark with Nvidia, Ill be building a desktop with one; im just trying to be realistic...

[argie]

I have a GMA950 and while compiz works fine (it worked even better when I got compiled svn instead of Ubuntu version when in Feisty), I suspect the drivers aren't complete. Games which work on both Windows and Linux report that certain features aren't available in the Linux version.

TA:Spring, for example, won't have the terrain coloured in Linux but in Windows it will.

[K.Mandla]

The 200M gruesome? Wow that sure is a surprise, that's actually the card I use right now. What's so terrible about in your opinion? For me it runs Compiz, games etc just fine or am I missing something? :)
I just feel it underperforms for the technology, and by that I mean the card, not the driver really. I find it can handle most games and acceleration acceptably, but I also see where it is more or less reaching its limit.

Perhaps I can explain by saying that I use it on a HP Pavilion zv6000 (http://kmandla.wordpress.com/hardware#Pavilion), which is a decent laptop. But I get better, smoother acceleration (in Linux) from an old Geforce4 440 Go (http://kmandla.wordpress.com/Hardware#Inspiron) with half the memory running at a far greater resolution.

I'm not really complaining about the card or the driver, only replying to your question as to which is better at the present time. I'd buy an ATI card if it met my financial and workload requirements, particularly if I could expect it to perform with the drivers that are out now. Two years ago when I first tinkered with ATI cards I wouldn't buy one to save my life. But for me, things are definitely improving, and it's an option for me now, and will be in the future.

Is that a better answer? ;)

[Ebuntor]

Is that a better answer? ;)

Sure is, thanks.

Still a lot things to consider. I think I'll go with Nvidia for now because of the (current) better support. Perhaps in a year when ATI has improved their drivers I'll buy one of their cards for my future desktop.

Thanks for the advice everyone :)

[gn2]

After a simply hideous week of evenings a long time ago when I tried to get a very expensive Radeon 8500 All-In-Wonder card working, (in Xp) I will never buy another ATI graphics adapter.

Nothing would make me buy ATI again.

[bigbrovar]

the Nvidia 8 series cards are rubbish and a waste... i would gladly jump on an ati bandwangon if i had the chance..i went for the nvidia is the best card on linux **** .. and i got screwed .. even though newer drivers has been released i still have noticeable performance problem on my lappy .. and when i see an intel card running compiz i grow green with envy

[Twitch6000]

Well I have never tried a ati but,I have tried both intel and nvida.
I have right now on my ubuntu laptop a intel.IT works great no bugs,graphic issues,or any other bullcrap people bring up about it(funny eh?).The nvida I tried well basically the same results execpt it gave better graphics and a bit more higher priced.So I would say if you want cheap but, still good graphics and such intel.IF you want better for about 50-200 more nvida.

[Ebuntor]

Well I have never tried a ati but,I have tried both intel and nvida.
I have right now on my ubuntu laptop a intel.IT works great no bugs,graphic issues,or any other bullcrap people bring up about it(funny eh?).The nvida I tried well basically the same results execpt it gave better graphics and a bit more higher priced.So I would say if you want cheap but, still good graphics and such intel.IF you want better for about 50-200 more nvida.

Thank you, that was my reasoning as well. I ordered my new laptop, with a GeForce 7000M, this afternoon.
I still am an occasional gamer so the extra graphics power is nice.

[Twitch6000]

Thank you, that was my reasoning as well. I ordered my new laptop, with a GeForce 7000M TC, this afternoon.
I still am an occasional gamer so the extra graphics power is nice.

Happy to help that is what I enjoy doing :).

[Ebuntor]

the Nvidia 8 series cards are rubbish and a waste... i would gladly jump on an ati bandwangon if i had the chance..i went for the nvidia is the best card on linux **** .. and i got screwed .. even though newer drivers has been released i still have noticeable performance problem on my lappy .. and when i see an intel card running compiz i grow green with envy


I see, seems like on the subject of graphic cards people's opinions are very divided.

[herbster]

the Nvidia 8 series cards are rubbish and a waste... i would gladly jump on an ati bandwangon if i had the chance..i went for the nvidia is the best card on linux **** .. and i got screwed .. even though newer drivers has been released i still have noticeable performance problem on my lappy .. and when i see an intel card running compiz i grow green with envy

Your experience is one thing, but the claim of Nvidia's 8 series cards being "rubbish and a waste" is unbelievably inaccurate and harmful to someone looking for a reasoned perspective on which to go with.

[emshains]

Well what are you going to do? Take an psychic (the lady with a crystal ball) and ask her, will there be better drivers for ATI or not?

I would stick to nvidia, with linux, the only way to go smooth and otb is to buy stuff that is tested, supported and popular in your community. So what if ATI will have better drivers in a year or so, I mean its now a year then a two, or a ten, you dont know WHEN they will get better than others, but you already know that Nvidia works almost otb, and its proven itself, as a reliable video card.
I have a 9600 radeon on a 3ghz hyper-threader and it cant even do a half of what a sempron 2400+ can do with a 7300gt.

Its a risky choice to buy and hope, rather than buy and go.

P.S. I am not good at english,so proper english learned people could laugh or get angry about psychic.

[forrestcupp]

All I know is that I had an ATI HD 2600 and I ditched it in favor of a Geforce 8600. I'm glad I did it, and I'll never look back.

In one year, ATI may have great drivers, but nvidia has great drivers now.

The current ATI problems with video/game flickering is not limited to gaming. Even if you're not a gamer, you will experience these problems with anything that uses opengl, even your screen saver. I really got tired of having to switch Compiz off and on every time I wanted to use an opengl app, and you can't really turn it off right before your screen saver comes on. Also having to switch Compiz off for these things means that it is impossible to get rid of your panels in favor of AWN.

When I switched to nvidia, it was like heaven, not having to ever think about it again.

I know ATI released their specs and data for open source devs, but last I heard, they didn't release the data for the HD series, which is what everyone is buying now. I'm not holding my breath.

[Methuselah]

I found the open source reverse engineered drivers for ATI cards that currently exist to be more than suitable for what I need. With the releasing of specs, I expect they'll only improve and the newer chipsets will be supported eventually. Therefore, I bought a cheap radeon that I knew was supported by the current xorg drivers. In the future, I can upgrade.

IMO, closed binary blobs maintained only by hardware manufacturer (NVIDIA) = bad in an open source operating system. Sure, it works now and you'll be happy thinking all this 'open source' stuff is philosophical irrelevance.

But you'll feel differently when you can't upgrade to the next version of ubuntu/xorg without throwing away your perfectly capable graphics card.

[Washer]

In one year, ATI may have great drivers, but nvidia has great drivers now.
QFT

Your experience is one thing, but the claim of Nvidia's 8 series cards being "rubbish and a waste" is unbelievably inaccurate and harmful to someone looking for a reasoned perspective on which to go with.Completely agreed. I have an 8600 GT & it works perfectly. Given ATI's record, I'm gonna wait at least a year after they have good drivers before I even consider it.

[IsawSp4rks]

I've used all three vendors, Intel, ATI and Nvidia.

Intel's xserver-xgl is really nice and has matured a lot since late January - I used it on a self built i945/GMA950- based machine and really enjoyed Compiz Fusion's performance, video was pretty good too, though slow and unreliable with certain High Def formats. Game performance was absolutely woeful, but this is also true in Windows. I have since parted ways with this machine, but was dissapointed to see the Intel GMA 950 go when compared to early revisions of the ATI catalyst linux driver.

ATI's catalyst 8.3 was a nice upgrade from 8.2 and 8.1. I use an x1600 Mobility based laptop and have found Compiz and Games to be fine, whereas video is only accelerated with Compiz disabled or by means of a patched mplayer that uses Compiz render to texture features for accelerated and smoothed video playback.

My HH test machine is an 8600GTS Core2Duo box and in that I've used the latest Nvidia drivers and have found them to perform better than Intel's or ATI's overall. Compiz Fusion and Games are EXTREMELY fast/smooth and accelerated video works perfectly within Compiz too. The Nvidia driver seems the most mature out of all three vendor's products and the same is true within Windows from my experience, though ATI did have a better driver initially for Vista. This has changed in the last 6 months or so, with the Nvidia driver being stable and performing well.

Good luck with your Geforce 7 based lap top. It will probably perform very well with ubuntu and Compiz.

[herbster]

But you'll feel differently when you can't upgrade to the next version of ubuntu/xorg without throwing away your perfectly capable graphics card.

What do you mean by this?

[IsawSp4rks]

I see, seems like on the subject of graphic cards people's opinions are very divided.

Somewhat, also you can't count on everyone to be informed or technical. Many people make wild assertions that they can't back up purely because they don't know what they're talking about.

[ScarySquirrel]

For most people, the difference between these graphics cards does not matter.

However, we gamers have to deal with a diverse and rapid-fire succession of persnickety graphics applications, many of which have arcane graphics requirements not entirely solved by OpenGL or DirectX.

I have two computers, one with a nVidia graphics card, and another with an ATI graphics card.
The computer with the inexpensive nVidia card has, over the course of several years, given me more reliable graphics performance, especially given its relative lack of memory and processing power, and has never had a compatibility issue; only, occasionally, performance issues.

On the other hand, many of the gaming problems with my other computer were directly attributable to its ATI graphics card, which, despite its greater computing power, performed on par with the nVidia card.

Most of the time, this is not even ATI's fault. Many game developers just compile their games for whatever most popular configuration they believe their gamers will have, and screw anyone who buys from someone with less market share.

[Polygon]

my old ati radeon 9800 gave me nothing but problems. ati's shoddy drivers didnt work on windows half the time, and on both linux and windows, i got artifacts and random pixels on opengl applications like blender. sending support requests on their website did nothing (they never responded)

in my new computer i got a nvidia 9800 gtx. it worked perfectly once the drivers were installed. Can't say that for my old ati card.