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View Full Version : linux; 10 hardest things, things to avoic etc



aldyguy
March 12th, 2008, 11:17 AM
so if you we're to tell someone who was just getting into linux.
what would:
- you say is the 10 hardest things you'll have to encounter on it.
- certain things to avoid be
- and any tips and advice.

manishtech
March 12th, 2008, 11:25 AM
Certain Things to avoid?
I would tell him/her to use the root account as less as possible. Dont unlock root account. Use sudo instead.


you say is the 10 hardest things you'll have to encounter on it
One of the most problematic things which I have found are:
using wireless on ubuntu, didnt have problem with my wi-fi router, but with college wi-fi network

Secondly using Flash on 64-bit ubuntu

k33bz
March 12th, 2008, 11:32 AM
so if you we're to tell someone who was just getting into linux.
what would:
- you say is the 10 hardest things you'll have to encounter on it.
- certain things to avoid be
- and any tips and advice.
For someone completly new to Linux I would suggest to only install programs on your box through synaptic manager, update manager, or from the add and remove selection, other wise you may end up in a dependency hell if you just try to install programs you downloaded from other places.

k33bz
March 12th, 2008, 11:34 AM
I would tell him/her to use the root account as less as possible. Dont unlock root account. Use sudo instead.


One of the most problematic things which I have found are:
using wireless on ubuntu, didnt have problem with my wi-fi router, but with college wi-fi network

Secondly using Flash on 64-bit ubuntu

Only problem I had with wireless was the my Wireless laptop (embedded wireless card) wasnt 100% compatable.

Being said, first thing you should do is run your LIVE CD just to make sure all your hardware is compatable.

manishtech
March 12th, 2008, 11:40 AM
Only problem I had with wireless was the my Wireless laptop (embedded wireless card) wasnt 100% compatable.

Being said, first thing you should do is run your LIVE CD just to make sure all your hardware is compatable.

I understand, but i had checked it on my personal wi-fi router and it worked right out of LiveCD \\:D/

The problem lies with the wifi network of college, we have to do hundreds of tweaking to get it working, its gets disconnected many times. Still we are helpless where does the problem lie? Distro? Driver? Hardware? or the Wifi Network?
Thanks to LUG in my college, they have sorted out many of the issues. One of them was that connection got disconnected after a few secs using madwifi driver. The solution was again here on ubuntu forums.org itself
http://www.lugmanipal.org/2008/02/26/preventing-atheros-card-from-being-disconnected-often/

dcstar
March 12th, 2008, 11:41 AM
so if you we're to tell someone who was just getting into linux.
what would:
- you say is the 10 hardest things you'll have to encounter on it.
- certain things to avoid be
- and any tips and advice.

Don't expect the latest-greatest hardware to be supported - it seems to take ~12 months for the Linux kernels to catch up and that can be an issue for a lot of people (remember that all the development work is done for free by volunteers).

Get hardware/motherboards that have been around for a little while, and make sure that the video hardware is well supported - like Nvidia etc. - check the Linux hardware websites for lists of supported/tested hardware.

Use a distro that has been released for at least a month, "bleeding edge" releases can aggravate those that just want something to work.

If you have been conditioned (brainwashed?) by using other certain OSs, focus on the outcomes of what you want done - not how it may have been done in the OS you have previously used. Be prepared to have to think differently and leave the "comfort zone".

jan quark
March 12th, 2008, 11:53 AM
10 things you should not forget:

1. the hardest thing is to forget the old habits of the old operating system
and to accept the change and say : OK here I am, I know nothing lets have some fun.

2. ask before you act

3. make a backup

4. if you experiment with your system you have to bear the consequences

5. learn and contribute to the community

6. read the guides ( you really have to read them )

7. have fun

8. you have to know ubuntu is addicting so

9. find a hobby where you can train your physical body also :)

10. it is only a operating system, get out and have some fresh air, the life is happening outside of your ubuntu box

manishtech
March 12th, 2008, 12:14 PM
if you experiment with your system you have to bear the consequences

But this should not detter you from experimenting on the system. Unless I experiment I cant learn. Only precaution I take is that I dont login as root otherwise I wont come to know where I messed up.

TpyKv
March 12th, 2008, 12:31 PM
- you say is the 10 hardest things you'll have to encounter on it.

1) Setting up wifi madwifi drivers. I've managed to install games, but not this yet. But it would help if I was able to boot into Ubuntu at the moment....

2) learning how to use commands correctly, it's easy to figure out but it helps to have a printed list in front of you.

that's about it so far.. still learning so its a list I will be adding to as time goes on!

- certain things to avoid

don't avoid anything, try to learn it :)

- and any tips and advice.

Try not to do anything without an internet connection.
what would take an hour to figure out yourself, could be found in 1 minute by looking here, on google or how to geek...

Regards,

Kev

hyper_ch
March 12th, 2008, 12:45 PM
there's only one thing:

incompatible hardware - if you avoid that installation and usage is a breeze...

Bölvağur
March 12th, 2008, 01:19 PM
From 1 being the easiest to 10 being the hardest

1. Install new programs via synaptic
2. Compile software, drivers... etc with help or a guide. (copy paste)
3. Fixing things with help of the ubuntuforums and others.
4. Learn to be able to search for solutions your self instead of calling your friends or family to the rescue.
5. Accept it that you cannot install other OS's programs by double clicking.
6. Install java and flash.
7. Finding out what is wrong when something doesn't seem to work (goto 3. or 1.)
8. Fixing WINE to be able to run your other OS's programs
9. To be able to know when you have to compile software.
10. Stop expecting your current OS to act and work the same as the old one.

perixx
March 12th, 2008, 01:50 PM
1. Install new programs via synaptic I'd say, installing programs via Synaptic is one of the most comfortable and easiest things to do in Ubuntu. Much easier and faster, than to search dozens of 'software & tool' sites. That one of the very advantages of Ubuntu for beginners... :¬)

perixx

Sef
March 12th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Moved to Community Cafe.

Metar
March 12th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Being a newcomer myself, I've found a few newbie-difficulties from my two stints with Linux:

1) The obvious - brace yourself, it's not what you're used to. root-rights will be a bit confusing at first, the filesystem, the menus, and, especially, working with the console. A week into Linux, I still try to avoid the full console as much as I can, sticking to the gnome terminals.

2) Even more obvious - make sure the hardware works. My previous stint with Linux failed because of my modem. It had user-made linux-drivers - but connecting to the net still didn't work because of reasons I still haven't found, but don't matter anymore as I'm using a router now. Same currently happens with my graphics, which are a tad weird at the moment, though I'm looking (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=721348) for solutions.

3) Watch the clock - set a limit for today's work. I could sit for days trying to make this or the other feature work...

4) Find someone knowledgeable in your vicinity - preferably real one, in case your system gets borked - and consult him if needed.

handydan918
March 12th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Number one rule: Have a test box! Find an old computer, and install linux - any distro - and do your experimenting there. If you execute the resume` command, nothing is lost except your installation time. It's really a great way to learn.

Bölvağur
March 12th, 2008, 02:57 PM
I'd say, installing programs via Synaptic is one of the most comfortable and easiest things to do in Ubuntu. Much easier and faster, than to search dozens of 'software & tool' sites. That one of the very advantages of Ubuntu for beginners... :¬)

perixx

oh yeah, it's from 1. being the easiest and 10 being the hardest.
like it said on my list, I actually think it's harder for a newbie to know what is wrong than fixing the problem or compiling.

Jeff Rage
March 12th, 2008, 03:13 PM
I would first explain that they should expect to use a forum (like this one!) to find out how to do things and to resolve issues.

Next, I mention hardware compatibility.

Then, I would discuss how to install programs. I know a few people that gave up on Linux because they couldn't figure out how to install anything.

NightwishFan
March 12th, 2008, 03:23 PM
Personally I agree that if Ubuntu works well out of the box with hardware it is far easier to use than any Windows based PC. Assuming that it is harder when they actually mean different. I like it because it does not hold my hand, but is always there guiding me. Those that need their hand help will not make it in Windows either.

I remember the time when my mom was trying to use a Vista based PC, and attempted to not allow me access to the computer for a laughable reason. She tried to install a program and she got the UAC. She called me up at a friends house screaming at me to remove the blockers, and why have I passworded her out. I told her welcome to the world of Vista. The password I had left for her in a note. No matter how friendly the computer system there are always those that cannot understand.

ODF
March 12th, 2008, 04:45 PM
1 : Playing games ... wich is a succes with a lot of deceptions.

2 : Trying to quit my windows habits.

3 : Trying to explain what is linux to my co-workers ... they don't know anything about computers.

Metar
March 12th, 2008, 05:50 PM
3 : Trying to explain what is linux to my co-workers ... they don't know anything about computers.

You should add: "Explaining that Linux isn't just for servers and nerds". That's the no.1 reply I usually get :p

Erik Trybom
March 12th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Don't try to install stuff with Wine the first thing you do. Try to find native programs instead that do the same things.

Iceni
March 12th, 2008, 07:21 PM
The hardest things I've done on linux is:

- First install. Did it 4 times. Had major trouble because default graphics driver was flawed so I saw nothing. I somehow got myself into xorg.conf and changed the driver, but I have no idea how :P
- Syncing my iCal-compatible phone.

Everything else has been easy :) Even switching from the familiar windows was as easy as breathing.

aldyguy
March 12th, 2008, 10:51 PM
ive heard the term compile been used alot, especially when referring to gentoo
what exactly is that process, and how is it done?
so basically just look out for hardware issues? my system is 4 years old, i just use a standard ethernet, everything works fine on the livecd
and i have a good idea of the commands, sudo, root etc
only gonna use wine as a last resort
and dont worry, i do have a life, i love teaching myself new stuff involving computers late at night when im home
thanks guys in advance, i didnt expect as many replies as i got

corney91
March 12th, 2008, 11:58 PM
ive heard the term compile been used alot, especially when referring to gentoo
what exactly is that process, and how is it done?

You won't have to worry about it - it's when you download a tarball and then run a few commands (possibly chase down dependencies) and it installs it for you. But you really won't need to compile things - the repositories work much better, and easier:)


so basically just look out for hardware issues? my system is 4 years old, i just use a standard ethernet, everything works fine on the livecd
and i have a good idea of the commands, sudo, root etc
only gonna use wine as a last resort
and dont worry, i do have a life, i love teaching myself new stuff involving computers late at night when im home
thanks guys in advance, i didnt expect as many replies as i got
If your hardware works, and you're not afraid of the terminal, sounds like Ubuntu's for you:)

aldyguy
March 13th, 2008, 12:06 AM
not to compare to windows
but terminal reminds me of dos for windows
originally, thats what interested me about linux was the terminal

and i will have to learn compiling sooner or later, ill be getting into gentoo after ubuntu
ive heard the install is the hardest cause you have to compile the kernel

InfinityCircuit
March 13th, 2008, 12:30 AM
Fixing broken packages. It takes time and effort to learn how to download the source for a package, manipulate it, check for errors with lintian, rebuild with dpkg-buildpackage, etc.

Backporting kernel patches is also pretty difficult.

But both of these are relatively complex :)

qazwsx
March 13th, 2008, 12:36 AM
Bleeding edge mentality for beginners.

jrusso2
March 13th, 2008, 12:43 AM
so if you we're to tell someone who was just getting into linux.
what would:
- you say is the 10 hardest things you'll have to encounter on it.
- certain things to avoid be
- and any tips and advice.

Wireless, Suspend, Video Drivers, getting all the plugins to work, java, flash, media, dvd etc.

I can't even think of 10

manishtech
March 13th, 2008, 08:10 AM
10 hardest things?
I have already made one reply, but this time an focusing on another aspect, not usability but how to convince people as a FOSS flagholder

* People find it difficult to understand root concepts and permissions
* convincing them that linux is not tough to use ](*,)
* They think Linux is for server administrations or geeks #-o
* Getting them believe that most of their hardware will be supported (One of my friend who has 6 servers and owns a hosting company asked me whether his pinnacle TV tuner card will be supported?)
* Making them believe that working with lesser privileges is more safe as most of the users are from windows background.

Arkenzor
March 13th, 2008, 08:30 AM
and i will have to learn compiling sooner or later, ill be getting into gentoo after ubuntu
ive heard the install is the hardest cause you have to compile the kernel

Compiling isn't anything that special. It mainly means using the source code for a program in order to create the executable files yourself. It's useful sometimes because most open-source projects distribute their software as source code only, but most distributions - Ubuntu included - offer a huge amount of precompiled packages that can be automatically downloaded and installed with a graphical tool (e.g. Synaptic in Ubuntu).

This said, Linux has tools for compiling just as for everything else. Installing a program from source usually boils down to going to the root of the source tree you downloaded, and running "./configure", "make" and "make install". The only problem you'll encounter is with software dependencies.


Compiling the kernel is, in itself, just as easy (only frigging long, but you can leave your computer alone and play Super Mario Galaxy for a few hours, right? :D). But if you want to change the configuration of the kernel you're compiling you'll need to know your hardware extremely well.




To answer the original question, my "thing to avoid absolutely" will be using a "simple" guide to something written for another Linux distribution, or an older version of Ubuntu. These guides labeled "easy" usually make extensive use of specific GUI tools that are not common to all distributions, and it's hard to adapt what they say to your situation because they don't explain what they're doing at all.
So until you're good enough to adapt the contents I'll suggest only using guides aimed at your specific version of Ubuntu.

Metar
March 13th, 2008, 09:57 AM
If your hardware works, and you're not afraid of the terminal, sounds like Ubuntu's for you:)

I dunno, during the installation and afterwards, I saw less terminal in Ubuntu than in Windows... Until I got to the configurations. :p

corney91
March 13th, 2008, 06:12 PM
I dunno, during the installation and afterwards, I saw less terminal in Ubuntu than in Windows... Until I got to the configurations. :p
IMO, it's always good to be competent with commands, just in case:)
eg. if you are given a bad command - knowing the rm options could save computers ;)
I've never actually NEEDED to use the terminal since feisty:guitar:

Metar
March 13th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Obviously a bit of extra security and knowledge is beneficial - just not necessary for the basic stuff, which is quite a feature if you're looking to get Windows users to make the switch.

And then things don't work and you need it. :p

jespdj
March 13th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Secondly using Flash on 64-bit ubuntu
If that's one of the hardest things on 64-bit Ubuntu, then everything in Ubuntu is super-easy! :rolleyes:

Installing Flash in 64-bit Ubuntu is easy, in 7.10 and 8.04 (alpha 6) it is just as easy as in 32-bit Ubuntu. It automatically installs nspluginwrapper to make 32-bit Flash work in your 64-bit browser. It's time that people stop with complaining that installing Flash on 64-bit Ubuntu is difficult.

The getlibs (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=474790) script makes it easy to get 32-bit libraries if you install 32-bit software on 64-bit Ubuntu.

aldyguy
March 14th, 2008, 10:47 PM
thanks a ton

scragar
March 14th, 2008, 11:06 PM
hardest thing I have ever had to deal with was fixing my sound(twice, I always seam to have problems with that), first time it fixed itself(yeah), second time I had to install and run "asoundconf-gtk" to set up my default sound card(dunno why it wouldn't be accepted by anything else...).

Oh, and be sure not to try the linux style actions on windows computers, it doesn't work out well when you highlight a collection of words in firefox and middle click to search google for them, only to realise a minute later that windows doesn't support the highlight>middle-click shortcut.

perixx
March 21st, 2008, 09:50 PM
Hello again - my 5 cents on the topic:

You'll probably want to avoid messing up your system completely, by installing different brands of graphic cards (I believe you can guess, which).

I did this by trying to compare the performance of different drivers/cards under Linux. I WAS able to recover from the mess Nvidia drivers left me with and re-install my main Ati card again, but I needed about 4 or 5 days to work out misleading Symlinks, broken restricted/xorg Ubuntu packages and kernel drivers....

-_-

perixx

cardinals_fan
March 22nd, 2008, 01:28 AM
Hardest Thing: DRIVERS! They can be so much of a pain...

Advice
1. Learn to love the terminal. It is your friend.
2. Be patient. Some things are worth learning, even if they aren't easy at first.
3. Do not screw around with the root account. I recommend signing in to root with 'su' and getting things done, then signing out rather than using 'sudo'. It makes me think harder when I use su rather than blindly adding sudo to a command.
4. Explore! Take advantage of all the options in Linux, and make your desktop your own. Go beyond the default!

scragar
March 22nd, 2008, 01:57 AM
3. Do not screw around with the root account. I recommend signing in to root with 'su' and getting things done, then signing out rather than using 'sudo'. It makes me think harder when I use su rather than blindly adding sudo to a command.

using sudo for 1 or 2 quick commands is by far recomended. The problem, however is when for some reason or other sudo's admin privilages timeout mid way through execuation of a script, which inevitably leads to perm's errors and such. in that case I'd use
sudo -ior
sudo suto get into the root acount though, using su on it's own eventualy leads to wanting to enable root account from the login window, and inevitably wanting to use the root acount as a normal user account.

pbpersson
March 22nd, 2008, 02:18 AM
Here is a comparison between Windows and Linux:

Windows - you walk into the restaurant, they give you a menu of items - you can only choose items from the menu and while some are free, many are quite expensive

Linux - you walk into the restaurant and before you is a room the size of a football field with tables containing every sort of food you could ever imagine and it is all free

My two pieces of advice:

1. Do not get overwhelmed, don't think you need to try everything, take it one step at a time

2. Find a guide telling you what does what. When I first started with Linux there was no guide and I became QUITE frustrated. I had to learn the hard way that KOOKA is how you run your scanner, K3B is how you burn CD's, and XMMS was how I played my MP3 files. Who knew?

I installed the scanner and it took me two days to figure out that the Kooka application had been waiting two days for me to use it. :o

herbster
March 22nd, 2008, 02:37 AM
New users need to know one thing above all: They will more than likely need to take some initiative above and beyond what they may be used to with Windows. Many people venture into linux with false expectations as to what the install process, etc. may be like and get scared off or frustrated far too easily.

spupy
March 22nd, 2008, 02:59 AM
One thing every Linux user should avoid:

- Looking like an idiot by having pointless arguments with supporters of other OSes. It's degrading to you and to Linux.

Cappy
March 23rd, 2008, 09:46 AM
1) Noapic/acpi=off/nosplash boot params are cryptic to newbies. Should be much easier for these potential problems.

2) Wifi problems due to Ubuntu's Network Admin. Wicd saved me here.

3) Knowing that to get error messages you have to start a program by command line in a lot of cases.

4) Video drivers. A small error editing files can render a computer helpless graphically. Thinking mostly of the manual upgrades where people need support for new hardware or features/bugs. Envy does a ton to help here.

5) Understanding that reinstalling an application will almost never fix a problem. It is usually with the user's hidden config file for that program.

6) No system restore. I've had some gnome bugs render my computer unbootable (to gnome). No fault of my own. Users shouldn't need to reinstall OR find the bug and fix it.

7) Missing libraries can be looked up on packages.ubuntu.com to find out what package you need to install (or use getlibs)

8) Games should have their own repo. Getdeb.net is nice but it would be better to have an official source with more ubuntu backing and games. (okay this is a wish list)

9) Permission problems. A newbie should know chmod -R 755 /path/to/folder and chown -R $USER:$USER /path/to/folder . Newbies don't usually know this and end up having trouble with something installed from a loki installer (cd-packaged game or game demo).

10) Knowing that wine is an alternative and not a perfect replacement for Windows games. If you like to play NEW games, advanced shaders effects may not work and/or you may have crashes. The game may not even work. If you are a heavy gamer dual booting may be necessary, depending on if your games work or not. (appdb reference)

11) Search the ubuntu forums. 99% of problems have been solved before. If you search you will learn new things and you will learn to solve your own problems. If you ask instead of searching you will probably receive a "half" answer that fixes the problem but does not really tell you WHY you had the problem, how you could avoid the problem, or how to fix the problem in the future.

12) Fitting everything in to a list of 10.