Does Linux = a pirate's dream?

[SZF2001]

Not as in pirating software. Of course all the software is free (or otherwise propriety and the people making it are sharing it, or your using Wine to play some pirated games... Why would you do that though?), but I'm talking about other things, like data backups.

For example, let's say I work at a store and we get DVD's in before they hit store shelves. On Windows I'd have to run the risk of pirating software, or actually spending money for a DVD copying program, and then (if in place) get past the DRM (is it a real issue right now?), etc.

Or, on your Linux computer, just install the libdvdcss3 package and install k9copy.

On Linux distro's (as far as I know) all the ports are closed unless you WANT one open, and change it. On Windows you have a higher chance of being "caught" because of default opened ports. You'd be amazed if you install PeerGuardian on Windows and see all the fun companies and colleges pinging you that it blocks out.

There are other examples I thought of earlier today but it's one in the morning and I forgot them. I'm sure there are more though... Anyway, is Linux the pirate's dream?

(Also, let's make sure this topic stays at hand - DO NOT TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ILLEGAL, like pirating sources and the like, or what you've aquired, etc)

[blithen]

I'm not sure what you are saying.
Like..'cause linux doesn't have DRM, and has closed ports automatically, it makes it a pirates dream.
'Cause if that's what you're saying, then well...of course!

[jrusso2]

Not as in pirating software. Of course all the software is free (or otherwise propriety and the people making it are sharing it, or your using Wine to play some pirated games... Why would you do that though?), but I'm talking about other things, like data backups.

For example, let's say I work at a store and we get DVD's in before they hit store shelves. On Windows I'd have to run the risk of pirating software, or actually spending money for a DVD copying program, and then (if in place) get past the DRM (is it a real issue right now?), etc.

Or, on your Linux computer, just install the libdvdcss3 package and install k9copy.

On Linux distro's (as far as I know) all the ports are closed unless you WANT one open, and change it. On Windows you have a higher chance of being "caught" because of default opened ports. You'd be amazed if you install PeerGuardian on Windows and see all the fun companies and colleges pinging you that it blocks out.

There are other examples I thought of earlier today but it's one in the morning and I forgot them. I'm sure there are more though... Anyway, is Linux the pirate's dream?

(Also, let's make sure this topic stays at hand - DO NOT TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ILLEGAL, like pirating sources and the like, or what you've aquired, etc)

Any pirating you can do on Linux can be easily done on Windows, maybe even easier since their are better dvd decrypters that are free for windows.

[zxscooby]

ARRR-buntu would be a pirates dream :lolflag:

[prshah]

For example, let's say I work at a store and we get DVD's in before they hit store shelves. On Windows I'd have to run the risk of pirating software, or actually spending money for a DVD copying program, and then (if in place) get past the DRM (is it a real issue right now?), etc.

Or, on your Linux computer, just install the libdvdcss3 package and install k9copy.



Piracy has no particular "base". Pirates can do so on any platform. And having more ports open only increases the chances of you getting hacked or virus/trojan infected, not of you getting "caught". Just because a port is open doesn't mean all and sundry can trip through your computer, it depends on the program that has "opened" the port.

In fact, personally I believe that linux helps reduce piracy.

Consider the classic piracy scenario:

Your windows comp goes down after 12 months. Now you cant find your original install CD. The sticker is worn off or ink-splashed or something. Your neighbour offers to fix you up in a day. The alternative is to call Tech support, explain everything to them, have them express polite disbelief, send them prooj, wait for their verification of your proof, wait for them to handle your case... etc etc. Which course would you take?

Another case: You need to re-touch your photo for a dating service. All you want to do, just this once, is remove red-eye and the garish background. GIMP in linux does it in a flash, on Windows Paint is no good, so (not having heard of GIMP for windows) you "get" a Photoshop or Paintshop Pro or CorelDraw. It takes an age to install, but once your work is done, are you going to take the time to uninstall it?

Free also has value. Most people say Linux is free, go for it. But only moochers do that. Most people like to give something back to a community that has done so much for them. Hence boards such as this.

In my opinion, anyone who says Linux aids piracy is an MS employee spreading the FUD.

Cheers,
PRShah

[jeffus_il]

Can you blame the tool for the crime? Is an automobile a drug smugglers dream? Is fertilizer a bomb makers dream? Here is your howto:
http://acidburn194.tripod.com/id60.html
Of course that makes the internet, the bomb makers dream, as well, and also the pedophiles dream. I guess virtually anything can be some criminals dream, a dreamy world we live in ...

[Arkenzor]

A good part of the pirate mentality is actually some kind of cheap open-source. It's a community where people collaborate on projects; you can get stuff for free; it's a way of putting your skills to use and develop them further; etc.
Only piracy doesn't help the IT world, it hurts it. It's merely a way of wasting resources on something that will always stay illegal and illegitimate, instead of developing legit solutions.

I think once you've been in contact with the real deal you'll just feel piracy is silly. F*** reverse-engineering, if I don't want to pay for that program then I'll gather a few people and work on a free equivalent to it. Piracy is only a palliative for people who want to "fight the system" and take control of the (proprietary) environment they are using, but don't know enough about open source to realize they could put their skills to better use.

So I'm inclined to think Linux is not a pirate's dream but something that makes piracy meaningless, at least to people who do not only use it but also live with its community.

[NightwishFan]

As worldy as I am, and as much as I would like to be a pirate. (The swashbuckling type) I like linux because their is few needs for me to have to pirate ridiculously expensive software.

Arrrr-buntu is great that made me laugh. If you don't mind I might make a wallpaper for it. :)

[SZF2001]

OK, OK, let me try again.

Pirating software for Linux is a laughing stock, since any piece of software you would ever need is for free anyway, and is usually a better alternative to Windows anyway.

Now. With your free software, your morality and your choice in how to use it come into play. With free software comes choice, so a person can either say "Well, it's sure nice to have the option of backing up my DVD if I ever felt like it, but I'll pass" (in the case of k9copy or devede), OR they say "Well hot damn, I'm going to borrow all of my friends DVDs and make my own copy! Yeehaw!"

With all the software freely available to you, you can damn well do as you please with it.

No, I'm not some MS exec trying to spread FUD (you try and find an MS employee who's 18 and isn't a janitor or coffee boy), but what I'm trying to say is, is with all the software being free and easy to find vs. checking Google for shareware, codecs, ripping programs, etc. , couldn't it all just make pirating easier?

And the ports thing - I've seen people representing the RIAA go onto campus networks and probe all and any computers they can find for questionable content, and they usually do it through ports. Since all the ports on Ubuntu are closed (besides port 80 for browsing the internet), that really reduces the chances of them probing for anything - PLUS they'd probably need to know your root password to check your files anyway, AND that's if you don't have any open/sharing folders in the first place (and hey, maybe you don't even have Samba installed) - on Windows they could just probe as they please.

It's three in the morning for me anyway so I'm probably not making too much sense.

[Arkenzor]

If you say it like that, then Linux makes pirating stuff easier because it makes everything easier: the apps are easy to find, whatever you need done someone else will have needed it too and written software for it, and you can do whatever you're doing without worrying about $$ spying on you.

But I'll have to answer that Windows XP (I won't talk about Vista yet) is much more piracy-friendly than Windows 3.1. After all if you (manage to) set up 3.1 on your box and try to pirate stuff you'll be doing it the same way as with any other OS, only in a much less usable environment. Therefore pirating will be harder, right?

[futureproof]

I really don't understand what youre saying, can you explain again please?

[sloggerkhan]

It's easy enough to 'pirate' on any platform. The only downside to using windows isn't that it's hard to pirate, it's that there's maybe a slightly higher chance of being caught. Not to mention the fact the average windows user's idea of file sharing is limewire.

[forrestcupp]

Actually, I think to an extent, you may be right. At least with copying DVD's. Libdvdcss is readily available for anyone, and it bypasses copy protection schemes so that a protected DVD can be copied easily. So pretty much anyone using Ubuntu that has the ability to watch DVD's can pirate them, too.

I don't think it's any easier to pirate software, though.

[hyper_ch]

ports aren't closed by default on linux... it

(1) depends on what distro you use

(2) on how you configure it


On *buntu ports are not closed by default - but there are no services listening.... so no need to close them.

[tigerpants]

Define piracy.

[qazwsx]

I think Windows is pirate's dream when we are talking about DRM multimedia content since you can use content and therefore I think it is easier to bypass restrictions. I mean there are software to decrypt wma files via windows media player etc.


Yes some stuff is is easier on tough: I can RIP my DVD with ONE simple COMMAND or reencode it into other format!

[UBUSNAFU]

The tools for piracy are readily available on Windows. Linux would require you to unlearn windows and learn Linux which would be far too much effort for somebody who has chosen to be a pirate. I would say there is far more of it going on in that camp than over here just because of the percentage and type of users involved.

[SZF2001]

The tools for piracy are readily available on Windows. Linux would require you to unlearn windows and learn Linux which would be far too much effort for somebody who has chosen to be a pirate. I would say there is far more of it going on in that camp than over here just because of the percentage and type of users involved.

I did the whole Windows to Linux switch and it seems simple enough to me.:confused:

[raul_]

Can you blame the tool for the crime? Is an automobile a drug smugglers dream? Is fertilizer a bomb makers dream? Here is your howto:
http://acidburn194.tripod.com/id60.html
Of course that makes the internet, the bomb makers dream, as well, and also the pedophiles dream. I guess virtually anything can be some criminals dream, a dreamy world we live in ...

That was really Tyler Durden-ish

[PurposeOfReason]

That was really Tyler Durden-ish
I believe he tried nitroglycerin, not fertilizer. ;)

[NightwishFan]

Fight Club I am correct?

[PurposeOfReason]

Fight Club I am correct?
Hey hey there, the first rule . . .

[UBUSNAFU]

I did the whole Windows to Linux switch and it seems simple enough to me.:confused:

Then you obviously have some ability. Congratulations! :) The average Windows user turned pirate only wants to buy a preconfigured machine and have the salesman show them how to press the on button. Ask any of them what they know about "dir" let alone "sudo apt-get update".

[NightwishFan]

arrgghh i forgot....

T_T been years since i watched "that"

[mikewhatever]

OK, OK, let me try again.

Pirating software for Linux is a laughing stock, since any piece of software you would ever need is for free anyway, and is usually a better alternative to Windows anyway.

Now. With your free software, your morality and your choice in how to use it come into play. With free software comes choice, so a person can either say "Well, it's sure nice to have the option of backing up my DVD if I ever felt like it, but I'll pass" (in the case of k9copy or devede), OR they say "Well hot damn, I'm going to borrow all of my friends DVDs and make my own copy! Yeehaw!"

With all the software freely available to you, you can damn well do as you please with it.

No, I'm not some MS exec trying to spread FUD (you try and find an MS employee who's 18 and isn't a janitor or coffee boy), but what I'm trying to say is, is with all the software being free and easy to find vs. checking Google for shareware, codecs, ripping programs, etc. , couldn't it all just make pirating easier?

No. It's already been said that free DVD copying software is available for Windows, so that one can do what one pleases in that respect, regardless of the OS.


And the ports thing - I've seen people representing the RIAA go onto campus networks and probe all and any computers they can find for questionable content, and they usually do it through ports. Since all the ports on Ubuntu are closed (besides port 80 for browsing the internet), that really reduces the chances of them probing for anything - PLUS they'd probably need to know your root password to check your files anyway, AND that's if you don't have any open/sharing folders in the first place (and hey, maybe you don't even have Samba installed) - on Windows they could just probe as they please.

It's three in the morning for me anyway so I'm probably not making too much sense.

No, you don't. You can't probe anything you want in Windows, unless C:\ sharing is enabled.

[NightwishFan]

If I intended to do any criminal act I would use linux. If they confiscated my pc and tried to boot it they would pull their hair out at why windows wouldn't mount my partition or something. :)

I would also leave some sort of script that autodeletes the whole hd or encrypts it or something. Just messing around here but I am sure its possible.

[SunnyRabbiera]

so are you saying linux should be DRM bogged or something?
goes against the point doesnt it?

[SZF2001]

No, you don't. You can't probe anything you want in Windows, unless C:\ sharing is enabled.

Those were some pretty slick scare tactics then, I wonder how they caught the two kids running patched virus scanners...


so are you saying linux should be DRM bogged or something?
goes against the point doesnt it?

HELL NO. Never.

[Arkenzor]

Encrypting your whole hard drive certainly is a solution.

"Oh, the password? No problem, I'll put it in right away"

...

"Hey, you won't believe that! I messed up with the password three times and my whole disk went boom! Really sorry, I'm sure you wanted to investigate it soooo much!"


But then again... I wouldn't do it ^^'.

[Polygon]

no, because if someone wnats to pirate something, its easy no matter what OS.

as per your example in your first post. In linux, i install libdvdcss, in windows i install vlc.

[futureproof]

The average Windows user turned pirate only wants to buy a preconfigured machine and have the salesman show them how to press the on button. Ask any of them what they know about "dir" let alone "sudo apt-get update".


Do you look down at everyone or just average windows users? Could you be more explicit in your definition of pirate? Do you mean the person that copies a CD? someone who rips a DVD? are you referring to the warez groups that copy new software and remove copy protection, registration and authentication, that mask physical drives in order to mount images? The average user that has to mess around with patches and code injection to get cracked software to work?

While all the above may be illegal in most parts of the world (and arguably morally incorrect)I would have thought that someone who used the terms "dir" and "sudo apt-get update" to belittle average windows users would understand that there is more to piracy than pressing the button a salesperson showed you on a preconfigured machine.

[original_jamingrit]

I think it's easier to do almost everything in Linux :)

But seriously, I would say yes, it is easier to pirate in Linux, simply because there's not the same threat of DRM and easier to be secure against watchdog agents like the RIAA. But that DRM stuff is, as if often said, defective by design. It ultimately inconveniences legitimate consumers, and is never secure enough to be protected from the cracking masses, ie: there is no encryption that cannot be brute-forced via distributed processing, there is no protocol that can't be reverse engineered. DRM is simply wasted effort. I hope it doesn't sound too much like I'm advocating piracy, but I would like to advocate music/movie industry reform.

I mean, really, the "best" movies of this decade have almost all been either sequels or re-makes. I mean, what's up with that? It's as though the budget and marketing of a movies these days are more important than the story, directing and acting.

[PurposeOfReason]

Then you obviously have some ability. Congratulations! :) The average Windows user turned pirate only wants to buy a preconfigured machine and have the salesman show them how to press the on button. Ask any of them what they know about "dir" let alone "sudo apt-get update".
Not to flame, but you are the reason I despise so many new Ubuntu users. They come from Windows and believe they are suddenly better. Let me ask you, why the heck would a windows user know anything about "sudo apt-get update" or "sudo" for that matter? That isn't a command in the Windows world. What operating system you use does not equal your amount of knowledge. I can and have set up a gentoo installation but I know nothing compared to the regulars of the gentoo boards.

While I'm at it, can we also infract people who use M$, Microsuck, etc.? It just isn't professional or the image any distro needs.

[SZF2001]

Then you obviously have some ability. Congratulations! :) The average Windows user turned pirate only wants to buy a preconfigured machine and have the salesman show them how to press the on button. Ask any of them what they know about "dir" let alone "sudo apt-get update".

Yea, uh... I used Synaptic for the most part and had NO IDEA about the terminal until after a month or so. And I was able to make my backups with k9copy anyway, all installed through a CLI. So... yea...

[futureproof]

Talking of DRM, anyone who is into acquiring illegal copies of music won't touch DRM infested files, why bother? Theres a million places it can be found DRM free

[calc]

In my opinion, anyone who says Linux aids piracy is an MS employee spreading the FUD.

If anything piracy hurts FOSS more than it hurts other software. If proprietary software had sufficient protection to actually prevent piracy then FOSS marketshare would be much improved since otherwise people would have to pay very large amounts of money for the software they have previously pirated. Not many people would pay $500-$2500 for various Adobe products, if they couldn't pirate them then they would likely start using free (or possibly much cheaper proprietary) software such as GIMP. But instead it is still very easy to pirate software such as Adobe Photoshop. Piracy, by home users in particular, actually helps proprietary software vendors keep their market share high, which then causes businesses to use their software since their employees already know how to use it. Businesses don't generally want to get caught by the BSA and have to pay huge fines so they pay for the software they use. So by not completely eliminating piracy it ends up helping proprietary software vendors more than it hurts them. (All of the above IMHO)

[raul_]

If anything piracy hurts FOSS more than it hurts other software. If proprietary software had sufficient protection to actually prevent piracy then FOSS marketshare would be much improved since otherwise people would have to pay very large amounts of money for the software they have previously pirated. Not many people would pay $500-$2500 for various Adobe products, if they couldn't pirate them then they would likely start using free (or possibly much cheaper proprietary) software such as GIMP. But instead it is still very easy to pirate software such as Adobe Photoshop. Piracy, by home users in particular, actually helps proprietary software vendors keep their market share high, which then causes businesses to use their software since their employees already know how to use it. Businesses don't generally want to get caught by the BSA and have to pay huge fines so they pay for the software they use. So by not completely eliminating piracy it ends up helping proprietary software vendors more than it hurts them. (All of the above IMHO)

++

[aysiu]

I just blogged about this:
The truth about open source and piracy (http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/the-truth-about-open-source-and-piracy/)

Tired of digging up those news stories time and again, so now I have it in an easy reference point.

[rune0077]

If anything piracy hurts FOSS more than it hurts other software. If proprietary software had sufficient protection to actually prevent piracy then FOSS marketshare would be much improved since otherwise people would have to pay very large amounts of money for the software they have previously pirated. Not many people would pay $500-$2500 for various Adobe products, if they couldn't pirate them then they would likely start using free (or possibly much cheaper proprietary) software such as GIMP. But instead it is still very easy to pirate software such as Adobe Photoshop. Piracy, by home users in particular, actually helps proprietary software vendors keep their market share high, which then causes businesses to use their software since their employees already know how to use it. Businesses don't generally want to get caught by the BSA and have to pay huge fines so they pay for the software they use. So by not completely eliminating piracy it ends up helping proprietary software vendors more than it hurts them. (All of the above IMHO)


I just blogged about this:
The truth about open source and piracy (http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/the-truth-about-open-source-and-piracy/)

Tired of digging up those news stories time and again, so now I have it in an easy reference point.

I would hardly go as far as to call it "The Truth". It leaves out the ethical side, which has nothing to do with Linux or Windows. I don't really care how many Chinese will end up buying Windows or not. at least not as much as I care, that we do not criminalize every teenager in the world and liken them to car-thieves and burglars. Seriously, should the police use their resources to catch bank robbers and burglars, or to track down thirteen year old kids who has the latest Justin Timberlake album on their iPod without having paid for it? I'm off the piracy train, but it has my full support for that reason alone. I don't care if that hurts Linux, because the other way around, it'll end up hurting not just human beings, but kids.